Gaffer Tape

skyjedi2005 said:

To me the definitive dragon ball is the original unflopped manga by Toriyama and uncensored.  None of this Z shit. And the anime is totally ludicrous and he had little involvement on the anime later on as far as i can understand.  His last project was the animated version of Blue Dragon which was cut and censored and butchered by only being dubbed in english and released that way and not available and uncut in japanese.

While I agree with everything else you said, Toriyama had quite a bit of influence into the anime, even into GT.  I don't consider filler (or GT, which is nothing but filler) to be canon, but Toriyama did contribute character designs.  And while I dislike the Z suffix as well, it is rumored to be Toriyama's idea.  I do wish the VIZ manga was uncensored and left off the Z, which doesn't belong there.  I do, however, understand why they did it, and while the quality of the VIZ stuff went greatly downhill in its last few years, it still did a much better job than FUNi.

Oh, and while I think Sean Schemmel makes an admirable Goku, he makes a vomit-inducing Kaio-sama.  Easily the worst voice in the entire series, and that's saying something.  Unlike constipated Goku or surfer-dude Yamucha, that's one voice that never got better, even after nearly ten years.

I don't really like dubs in general.  I much prefer watching anything in its original language, but DB has been a particularly painful experience, although over the past several years, the voice actors are the least of its problems.  For the most part, the Ocean cast was great.  They were good actors, and a lot of them fit the characters.  The problem then was Saban's censorship standards, the heavy cutting, and the extreme deviation from the script. 

Then season 3 happened, and, even at 13 years old, I was shocked.  The voice actors were completely horrible.  The censoring was much less, but the script was even more inaccurate, and the music was complete and utter shit.  It was because of season 3 that I finally set out to find the Japanese version.  Season 4 was a bit better but not by much.  By season 5, I had quit watching the dub entirely just because it was so not what DBZ is supposed to be. 

Their DB dub was much better.  By that time, the actors had gotten better at their roles, and that actually had the sense to keep the original music, so I did watch that on occasion, but, like I said, by that point I'd given up on dubs entirely. 

And then there was the travesty that was DBGT.  That show's bad enough on its own, but the dub was a complete joke.  I've never even seen a complete episode of it.  They lost me at their original trailer where they mocked the original version and showed their new hardcore version with the idiotic rap song.  They've taken steps now to improve it with the new boxset, but, like I said, I don't care about the dub, so while I'm impressed, I'd still rather watch the original.

So my biggest problem with dubbed Dragon Ball isn't the acting, which, except for Chris Sabat's Vegeta, isn't that bad.  My biggest problem is with the script, followed closely by the music.

But my biggest beef with FUNi in recent years is those craptacular "season" boxsets.  Since they don't even correspond with the English version seasons, I think they should have just called them "volume"s, but that's not my problem with them.  That is, of course, the cropping, followed by the lying about the cropping.  They seemed to finally come to their senses with the new DBGT boxset, but since they no longer use alternate angles for some reason, they've screwed that up as well, only having the English song and title cards and no longer having the previews.  The old single discs were better!

So no matter what they do, they always screw something up, and it just baffles me why they can't just get their act together!

EDIT: And I should also mention their mispronounciation of words like Kamehameha, Saiyan, and Kaio-ken as well as messed up names like Tenshinhan-->Tien.

Yeah, it's so funny that FUNimation is now great at dubbing... but still screw up everything DB-related.  It's so funny I could punch someone.

Being a big fan of DaizenshuuEX myself and having heard about it from over there, I do want to clarify a bit.  I haven't checked the forum thread, but based on the podcast, a lot of what you've said is speculation.  If more confirmed details have come out since then, then I apologize.  The picture is going to be extended to 16:9, but it hasn't been confirmed that they're redrawing the backgrounds.  While this is the most likely route, it doesn't necessarily mean it's true (but I will say that I agree that it's probably the case).  As far as I know, FUNimation has said nothing about this, so there is no precedence other than fan wishing that this will ever see the light of day in America.  Not saying it won't, but there hasn't been any official word.  To clarify for those who don't know, Return of Son Goku and Friends isn't a movie, per se.  It's not a movie like the other official movies with theatrical releases made as an extension to the TV show.  This was an animated special promoting the anniversary of Jump, the publication that originally presented the manga.  But, yes, it was certainly great!  ^_^  And as a minor nitpick, Hirotaka Suzuoki isn't the only seiyuu who has passed on since the show ended.  Jheese's voice actor died a few years ago, and you can't forget that Kohei Miyauchi (Kamesennin) died before the show even originally ended.  So there are going to be more replacements than just for Tenshinhan.

As for the premise... I'm mostly apathetic about it.  I don't really care about "refreshing" DBZ.  And I really don't see the need to re-record the dialogue.  It doesn't bother me they're doing it, as long as it's an alternative to the real DBZ, but I just don't see the point.  Granted, it's a better idea than the live-action movie, but that's not necessarily saying much...  The only thing about it that interests me is the length, trimming it down to a third of its episode count.  That leads me to assume that they're removing the filler.  That piques my curiosity.  While there is some filler I enjoy, it would be nice to see the show more accurately portray the manga and also have a version where people can't complain it drags on for too long.  So we'll just have to see how it goes!  Thanks for posting this over here.

Lucas in 2010:  It was my original vision to give Jabba the Hutt fingers, but that had only been possible with puppets, and I don't like puppets.  So it was my original vision to have a computer generated Jabba that had fingers.  Until now that wasn't possible, but with my brand spankin' new versions of the films, Jabba not only has fingers... he has spirit fingers!  I felt it was important that Jabba wiggle his fingers as much as possible.  It's indicative of my strong desire to have him have fingers!  I felt that I could simply go in the direction of giving him regular fingers, but that wouldn't be worth it to the fans... the fans who have waited six years for a new version of Star Wars.  They needed to see the kind of effort we put forth in these corrections.  I know they'll be excited about these fingers.  They wave, they curl, they give the peace sign.  He even gives a big thumbs up when Han steps on his tail.  It's a very whimisical moment.  The kids'll love it.

I think from now on, we, on these boards, should officially refer to "that sport" as handball.  I likes that name!  It's exciting!

Oh, Pike is the seemingly omniscient voice telling Kirk he's destined for something more?  I never picked up on that!

Yeah, it's a silly game.  I don't know what they were thinking.

EDIT:  And interesting trailer.  Some new stuff I hadn't seen before, and it's nice to actually see some footage of McCoy.  So far it's been the usual Spirk love affair.

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little hearing the prequels be referred to as "the first three films."

Interesting.  Very weird aspect ratio, but interesting to watch nonetheless.

C3PX said:

Gaffer makes a good point about adaptions. It is hard to think of this as a new adaption of the old series though. Mostly because they based some major plot points around not making it to.

Gaffer, imagine if J. K. Rowling had felt it nessecary to tie the books in with a film in order to explain away their variations. Let's say the Harry from the book went and somehow met the Harry from the movies, and they had a discussion about how things might happen differently in each of their timelines for some reason or another. Kind of silly isn't it?

Oh, yes, it certainly is.  And I'm not saying I agree with everything done in adaptations.  I generally think, for example, that the Harry Potter films are done well and respectfully, but, as a fan, there are things that annoy me, or I think could have done better, or simply think were botched.  But since I think they were done well overall, I can overlook those things.

My point is, the majority of revisionism, if done well, I can put up with.  I mean, I'm one of the few who argue that the NCC-1701 could work in its original design in this movie, as long as the effects are done well enough.  I don't think it needs to be changed at all and would prefer it not be.  But if I see it, and it ends up being good, then I will let it slide. 

I'm not at all sure how this dual Spock thing will work out.  When you put it like that, it seems pretty dumb.  But maybe it will work out.  I don't know.  I was simply defending J.J.'s assertion that balances need to be reached in adapations a lot of the time.  I agree with the concept, and I disagree that fans need to necessarily get up in arms because of that statement.  That doesn't necessarily mean I agree with specific ideas and concepts he's put into the movie.

You know, Abrams's comments there really didn't bug me at all.  I know I'm a nerd, and it's a fact I appreciate while trying to maintain a sense of humor about myself.  Therefore, being called an "insane fanatic" doesn't insult me.  It either humors me or actually compliments me.  And that said, I can understand what he's talking about.  With any kind of adaptation, a balance needs to be reached between serving the purists and serving the new medium.  As a Harry Potter fan, it's something I've been conscious of for a while, and I'm usually pretty lenient about it.  So I'm certainly going to give him the benefit of the doubt.  We'll see.

C3PX said:

Yay, I have been educated in the dumbing down of the English language! And strangely I now feel smarter somehow. Of course I am not one to talk, having used the term "lol" in my previous post, something I used to refuse to do but for some reason have let it slide lately. Just so long as I don't sink to the level of using single letters to represent whole words (R U OK? Wht R U doing tmrw?), can't stand that!

Yeah, I have to say I felt a little embarrassed explaining that because it made it look like I might actually type that way... =P

...Oh, only the rare emoticons here and there!

And on topic:  I'm playing Kingdom Hearts right now!  I haven't played it in four years, and I'm doing expert mode now... but for some reason, it seems easier than what I played before!  Case in point, I just beat Riku in Hollow Bastion:  in one try!  When I played before, I had to sit through that pre-fight cinema so many times that it's imprinted in my brain!  And today I just mopped the floor with him on the first try!  Have I really gotten that much better?  Or is expert mode actually easier than normal mode?  And I haven't done any power leveling either.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if I was at a lower level than I was before.

Crazy, man!

Wait, what?!  Stinky the Hutt is our Jabba?

I think I just died a little inside...

Well, I've never played Fallout 3, but now I can contribute to this thread for the first time in a while.

C3PX:  kthxbye= 'K (for okay), thanks, and bye (as in goodbye).

Yay, I've been educational!

But it still doesn't explain why he's in Dagobah.  The scene just shows him landing there.

Ugh, another irritating retcon.  It seemed so much cooler when it was always told that years of misuse of the dark side had deformed his face.  And, in another fun example of Lucas making this up on the fly, he was actually going with this story in AOTC, as Palpatine looks much more ragged than he did in ROTS, after Lucas changed his mind.

While I agree with your original post and have often wondered the same thing myself, I do just want to add that, personally, I'm glad that Yoda's exile scene was cut from the movie.  One of the few good decisions in a sea of crap.

But who would make a TV show in 2.35:1?  And didn't they have to alter the episodes used for The Clone Wars film because they weren't wide enough?

Yes, but would the same creditor still be "relatively friendly" and accommodating if the person who owes kicks him in the balls?  That's basically what Han did to Jabba by purposely stepping on his tail, and Jabba is just like, "Hey, it's alright!  I trust you!  Someone get me a bandage!"

And don't forget the way that Fett mugs the camera like a complete asshole.  "Hey, it's me, Boba Fett!  Buy my action figures!"

Well, in that case, Scruffy has a point.  You could just as easily say that ROTJ made no effort to keep the emperor looking or sounding like he did in ESB, and we should therefore hate that, and the change in '04 is therefore justified.  I will argue that the '97 Jabba looks like crap, but there are many more important reasons than special effects continuity that cause me to hate it.

And, of course, by the time they got to ROTJ, the character of Jabba had changed significantly.  Therefore, trying to paste that Jabba into Star Wars just didn't work.  It was like trying to fit a blobby slug-like peg into a round hole.

TMBTM said:

To me the problem with the 97 SE Jabba is (other than it is now poor CGI for our days standards) that he has too much facial expressions, it was disctracting from the 83 puppet. The 2004 Jabba, even if it's far from perfect is a step in the good direction IMO. Of course the real problem is that the scene itself did not had much thing to the movie. I did not like seeing Jabba in TPM ether because I like my Jabba mysterious until ROTJ.

I didn't mind that Jabba was in TPM.  At least he looked better than both the '97 and '04 Jabba.  I have more problem with him being in Star Wars than in the prequels.  His being in the prequels shouldn't ruin the "mysteriousness" of him in ROTJ because, strictly speaking, you should see ROTJ before TPM anyway.  It does ruin his credibility to see him in Star Wars, though.