FreezingTNT2

People hate the re-casting of Anakin’s Force ghost in the 2004-present re-releases of Return of the Jedi, mainly because it is disrespectful to the now-deceased Sebastian Shaw, yet like the re-casting of Palpatine in the 2004-present re-releases The Empire Strikes Back. I don’t understand: why do people like the re-casting of Palpatine in The Empire Strikes Back if it is also disrespectful to his two now-dead actors, yet despise the re-casting of Anakin’s ghost if it is disrespectful to Sebastian Shaw? Can someone explain to me why?

SWOTFAN25 said:

Guys our fanbase has really been put through the ringer when it comes to these Special Edition changes. The new

HAN/GREEDO scene is beyond bizzare. I have no idea why the colors are so muted in the OT. In all honesty there isn’t

gonna be a huge uproar over this anymore because at this point as a community we’ve just been beaten bloody with a stick

so many times. Thank god for Harmy.

And Adywan, too.

Your_friendly_Imperial said:

The First Order never rules the galaxy, they don’t own a galaxy weapon with which they blow up Republic space, they don’t own star destroyers. They are the underdogs who try to stay under the radar of the New Republic. Their tactics are subterfuge and terrorizing civilians. Essentially make them the Taliban of the galaxy.

4throck said:

sade1212 said:
My point is that I moved Luke’s death to the end,

Ending a movie on a death scene doesn’t work. You need to see what was achieved by the sacrifice. That’s why you have celebrations on ROTJ and TPM…

I disagree, i think the funerals of Vader and Qui-Gon Jin would have been far stronger endings. The Ewok party and that strange carnival in TPM were never needed. And Luke is the archetypal hero who saved the galaxy, it’s distasteful to cheapen his death with moments of levity.

*celebration

ShiftyEyes said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

ShiftyEyes said:

Fang Zei said:

Does anyone have a D+ subscription and the hardware to stream it in 4k (even if it’s only in sdr)? I’d be very curious what the OT looks like at full 2160p res. The compression probably cancels out some of the extra detail, but I would still think this looks better than what we’ve had to live with for the last 15 years.

Rogue One was also finished in 4k IIRC, so there should be some increase in detail, compression notwithstanding. TFA was only finished in 2k AFAIK, but the hdr should impress.

It’s the stuck-in-2k PT that I’m maybe the most curious about, both in terms of the 4k upscale and how it fares in hdr.

I posted my thoughts earlier, watched these 4K LED display with Dolby Vision via an Apple TV device.

ShiftyEyes said:

I sampled the 4K versions of the OT on Disney+ earlier. They share a lot of the same issues as the 2004/2011 masters. Colors are the biggest improvement. Colors are better and they’ve dropped the blue and pink color casts from the SE and previous DVD/Blu-ray releases. Unfortunately, it looks like another job from Lowry/Reliance Mediaworks. Moderate digital noise reduction, edge enhancement, frozen grain. Close ups look pretty solid, if not a bit soft. But anything wider and you start to see the issues. Basically, a huge disappointment if you’re a videophile and have been waiting for these 4K masters for years.

I think they’re fairly poor remasters. Casual viewers may think they’re fine, but technically they’re pretty bad especially compared to some of the stellar 4K releases of “Blade Runner”, “2001: A Space Odyssey”, “Close Encounters of the Third Kind”, etc. we’ve gotten in recent years. Basically, the remastering team degrained the whole thing and detail was taken off as a result. They then sharpen the image and then add some light homogeneous digital grain so it doesn’t look too mushy. It all results in a splotchy, filtered look with new digital artifacts do to all the noise reduction and grain manipulation. They essentially freeze frame the backgrounds so the film grain doesn’t move. It’s almost as if the actors are standing in front of photographs rather than real locations/sets. If you have any appreciation for how film should look, it’s really weird. These are basically the same tricks Lowry/Reliance has been using for years and it was fine on the DVD days and passable in 1080p, but in 4K, it really shows. Hell, what’s the point of scanning the original camera negatives in 4K if you’re just going to filter off all the detail and mess it up with your own digital artifacts?

So you’re saying that film grain is a good thing and should never be touched?

Film grain is part of the look of the film. When it’s managed well, you shouldn’t notice. Problem is, messing around with the grain structure usually results in its own digital artifacts and issues which are far more distracting than the grain itself.

Take a look at 4K77. Personally, I think the grain is too heavy in many scenes but the DNR versions aren’t really improvements to me. The noise reduction introduces its own issues.

I know this may not be relevant to Star Wars, but speaking of reducing grain in old films, I’m thinking of making my own editing of the original Jurassic Park film someday, using the 3D re-release as the base while color-correcting it to look 100% consistent with the original and keeping in the newer changes.

LexX said:

DrDre said:

Take a look at this frame:

Looking at the references I have, and being conservative with saturation I would place this shot about here:

Bottom pic looks like teal mess. Sure, the colors could pop a little more on the screenshots from the last page, but I prefer them and they look pretty filmic to me. Sure, it’s not Technicolor but it’s easily the best how these have looked officially. That 2001 pic looks a little too over-processed color-wise.

The teal looks very unappealing, and the set pieces in both versions feel more like a play than an actual film. Best thing to do is to have a “modern” version that fixes the color grading to match the original versions instead of that unappealing teal and orange color filter used for 4K releases, cleaned-up visuals and picture quality (the noise and grain), improved puppets and sets (via modern-day CGI and other effects), etc. and can be seen as the definitive versions of the films, while realeasing the original versions as bonus discs for obvious preservation reasons.

That way, we can have both an artifact and a modern edition, so we wouldn’t be rewriting history at all.

ShiftyEyes said:

Fang Zei said:

Does anyone have a D+ subscription and the hardware to stream it in 4k (even if it’s only in sdr)? I’d be very curious what the OT looks like at full 2160p res. The compression probably cancels out some of the extra detail, but I would still think this looks better than what we’ve had to live with for the last 15 years.

Rogue One was also finished in 4k IIRC, so there should be some increase in detail, compression notwithstanding. TFA was only finished in 2k AFAIK, but the hdr should impress.

It’s the stuck-in-2k PT that I’m maybe the most curious about, both in terms of the 4k upscale and how it fares in hdr.

I posted my thoughts earlier, watched these 4K LED display with Dolby Vision via an Apple TV device.

ShiftyEyes said:

I sampled the 4K versions of the OT on Disney+ earlier. They share a lot of the same issues as the 2004/2011 masters. Colors are the biggest improvement. Colors are better and they’ve dropped the blue and pink color casts from the SE and previous DVD/Blu-ray releases. Unfortunately, it looks like another job from Lowry/Reliance Mediaworks. Moderate digital noise reduction, edge enhancement, frozen grain. Close ups look pretty solid, if not a bit soft. But anything wider and you start to see the issues. Basically, a huge disappointment if you’re a videophile and have been waiting for these 4K masters for years.

I think they’re fairly poor remasters. Casual viewers may think they’re fine, but technically they’re pretty bad especially compared to some of the stellar 4K releases of “Blade Runner”, “2001: A Space Odyssey”, “Close Encounters of the Third Kind”, etc. we’ve gotten in recent years. Basically, the remastering team degrained the whole thing and detail was taken off as a result. They then sharpen the image and then add some light homogeneous digital grain so it doesn’t look too mushy. It all results in a splotchy, filtered look with new digital artifacts do to all the noise reduction and grain manipulation. They essentially freeze frame the backgrounds so the film grain doesn’t move. It’s almost as if the actors are standing in front of photographs rather than real locations/sets. If you have any appreciation for how film should look, it’s really weird. These are basically the same tricks Lowry/Reliance has been using for years and it was fine on the DVD days and passable in 1080p, but in 4K, it really shows. Hell, what’s the point of scanning the original camera negatives in 4K if you’re just going to filter off all the detail and mess it up with your own digital artifacts?

So you’re saying that film grain is a good thing and should never be touched?

nl0428 said:

pat man said:

nl0428 said:

pat man said:

nl0428 said:

If anyone here went to go see the 3D release of The Phantom Menace, please tell me what the master and color grading looked like. Did it look like the 2011 Blu-ray, or this new Disney+ version?

I didn’t see the 3d release. But skimming through the movies the Prequels are just upscaled Blu-ray. I.e. nasty teal shift in Aotc.

I seriously would like to understand why people who do 4K HDR remasters have such a love for adding unappealing teal filters to their older films. Especially when it’s not the accurate color grading the movie had when released.

Make them look like modern films.

It really doesn’t, it just ruins the original look of the film and almost looks like it’s done by someone to try to modernize something by its look, when you don’t need to do something as unnecessary as that, as these classics will remain timeless and continue to stand the test of time by their quality.

How about as an alternate version that can be seen as the definitive version (with the original theatricals packages for obvious preservation reasons), like how Blade Runner: The Final Cut is seen as the definitive version of Blade Runner (while the original version is packaged)?

DELETED COMMENT

snooker said:

Explosions don’t happen in vacuums, though, so I guess a good edit would just erase all of them.

I understand what you mean, though.

To be fair there are bombs falling in space in The Last Jedi

Rodney-2187 said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Why can’t they just pull a Blade Runner, in which they release another Special Edition while packaging it with the previous versions (original cuts, 1997 versions, 2004 versions, and 2011 versions)?

I think everyone would love that, but this is something they could have done for years and haven’t. Many have said Disney/Lucasfilm is either contractually obligated by Lucas to only release the revised editions, or they feel beholden to Lucas to not go against his wishes. I used to think that sounded like a crazy conspiracy theory, but here we are with a restored 4K HDR version of the Original Trilogy, that was done years ago, and no sign of the unaltered versions.

Could they be included in some way on the inevitable disc release? Maybe, but I wouldn’t bet my credits on it.

I think it’s because if they change any of the Special Edition changes, then they’d have to change/rewrite parts of the current Star Wars canon too.

emanswfan said:

Nah, I think the original looks great.

Either way, I love me some practical explosions over the CGI explosions in the ST.

To be honest, I prefer the CGI explosions, 'cause they look much more modern and realistic compared to the OT.

emanswfan said:

Adywan is definitely not doing anything more than 720p for his edits still, but I’m planning on creating 4K versions of Revisited via AI upscaling along with a 10 bit upsampled HDR color grade.

I would love to see Harmy do 4K Despecialized however if he’s up to it. Although I’m still wondering about if the detail level is really greater in these new 4K masters.

Which ANH:R are you going to be doing? The original ANH:R, or ANH:R HD?

Why can’t they just pull a Blade Runner, in which they release another Special Edition while packaging it with the previous versions (original cuts, 1997 versions, 2004 versions, and 2011 versions)?

adywan said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Admiral Holdo’s hyperspace-kamikaze in The Last Jedi. I mean, why hasn’t anyone used this in any space battle before, ever?

Because they couldn’t afford to lose large cruisers like that before and also a damn lightsabre didn’t just split in two erupting a huge flash of force energy at the exact same time. Why do you think the explosion trails were pure white? 😉

To be fair it tore a wing off of the Supremacy and took down other ships in the way

DuracellEnergizer said:

Dumbshit names like Plagueis, Tyrannis, Greedo, Porkins, Savage Opress, Elan Sleazebaggano, etc.

Don’t forget Palpatine, Anakin, Yoda, Dooku, Padmé, Obi-Wan, Bail, Organa, Skywalker, Shmi, Binks, Panaka, and literally every made-up name in the whole franchise, whether it be your first name or surname.

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

I’d say “unbefuckinglievable”, but, unfortunately, that would be false.
Totally… utterly predictable and infuriating.

Any changes detected yet besides the new Tatooine sky and modified Greedo scene?

The silver lining is that George finally realized his true vision for the clouds, as I understand clouds were difficult to render on motion picture back in 1977…

Can you show me the new Tatooine sky?

Admiral Holdo’s hyperspace-kamikaze in The Last Jedi. I mean, why hasn’t anyone used this in any space battle before, ever?

RogueLeader said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

@adywan They have added another change for the film on Disney+, in which Greedo says something to Han (likely an insult) before they shoot. Do you plan on including this change?

What do you think?

It’s not bad. The problem with Greedo shooting first before Han does is that it messes up with his transition from anti-hero to hero. And now, they’ve improved that scene, because now it appears that Greedo is (likely) insulting Han, giving Han more of a motivation to shoot him.

rodserling27 said:

I cannot believe they changed the Greedo scene yet again. You’ve got to be kidding me. It’s a joke at this point.

On the positive side, the colors look a lot more natural and closer to the originals than the Blu-rays and the DVDs. Oh well…I’ll stick to 4k77 and Despecialized and stay away from this mess.

What about Adywan’s Revisited edits?

@adywan They have added another change for the film on Disney+, in which Greedo says something to Han (likely an insult) before they shoot. Do you plan on including this change?

Where can I see your crawls (the text)?

Just export the original version of the scene (you know what I mean), download a different video-editing software that has more features, and put the scene into said software before editing and exporting it.

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

It probably depends on the software you’re using. I used to use some software (can’t remember which anymore) that had that as an option…and it wasn’t really hidden away somewhere on a sub menu…it was a very prominent feature. But I haven’t burned a DVD in years…

Do you still have that software?

We all know that people can make their own DVDs, but just a question: given that film studios put trailers at the beginning of their DVDs before you reach the menu, how can I do the same thing?

Saying it’s a Jedi’s weapon doesn’t mean he’s saying it’s exclusive to the Jedi.

I don’t understand this… we aren’t supposed to believe a “Jedi weapon” is a “Jedi weapon”? So what does it mean then? Was the Emperor supposed to say, “this is a Jedi weapon and no other group of people can use it ever, for any purpose” for the intent of his statement to be clear?

Why would he not just call the lightsaber a lightsaber, or not discuss it at all?

I think the use and discussion of lightsabers throughout the films make it abundantly clear what the intent is.