Father Skywalker

Tyrphanax said:

Father Skywalker said:

Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker, did want to be the ruler of the galaxy himself. Being a Sith Lord, the evil sith have a habit/tradition of overthrowing and killing their sith masters and taking their place, like a power struggle amongst each other. The sith are like a real group of backstabbers.

Instantly stuck in my head.

I always like to see it as the Empire being good and holding the galaxy together, like the Republic did, and the Rebels being evil terrorists intent on disrupting the legitimate rule of the Empire in order to throw the galaxy into chaos and anarchy.

Good point, no, nah, great point you got there!!!!!!

Why was the Galactic Empire so evil and bad??? Was it worth it to start a galactic civil war in which millions of people will die in, just to get revenge at darth sidious for overthrowing/destroying the Galactic Republic and restoring democracy?? No. Wow, I know I sound like a crazy fool by saying that, but really, in the context of this situation and story, it makes perfect sense.....

The rebels really do seem like terrorists to me.... I mean, sure, don't let Darth Sidious (emperor palpatine) and Darth Vader's ugly, scary, black costumes and the physically attractive Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill's and Billy Dee William's faces fool you; they seemed kinda messed up too, they had a "war is glorious attitude"... They showed no remorse, regret, or even a hint or a tint of sadness for the stormtroopers and imperials that they killed, they said "great shot kid that was one in a million" and YEHAWW cowboy style when millions of people where annihilated and destroyed in a fiery explosion on the two Death Stars.

Besides, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda wanted Luke Skywalker to kill his father Darth Vader, not because of the death star or imperial dicatorship and tyranny, but for religious reasons-he was a dark lord of the Sith who used the Darkside of the Force..... They were religious fanatics bent on waging a war on different beleifs and philosophical views on the Force..... Correct me if I am wrong on this point......

There are 2 types of dictatorships in this world-benevolent dictatorships/enlightened depotism, and evil, cruel, genocidal, mass-murdering dictators....... Palpatine and anakin were type A, until the rebels rebelled against them and they did evil atrocities in retaliation; just think about it!!!!

The death of the lars family, the destruction of alderaan, never would have happened without the existence of the rebellion alliance..... I don't care if one side did evil things, so did the other side, waging a war and taking people's families away from them......Darth Vader just wanted to end the destructive conflict...Grey morality here, both sides are evil, the rebels are waging an unjust revenge war, the imperials commit evil atrocities in retaliation, all just like game of thrones.......

Tyrphanax said:

Oh, dear...

I was just explaining the situation and why your... enthusiasm... for aspects of the Prequels and Special Editions that are generally disliked here might not be as well-received as you might hope. The fact that your views are so very... energetic... and wildly polar opposite of the general opinion here is why it could be infinitely easy to assume you were just posting them in order to get a rise out of the community here.

Certainly, though I vehemently disagree with it, I have no problem with you having your own point of view; though I admit I do cringe when additional changes are mentioned in regards to the Original Trilogy and imagining Hayden Christensen under the mask.

Star Wars really does have a following of all kinds...

Why do you cringe when you imagine the face of Hayden Christensen in the original trilogy??? His acting is totally irrelevant to his looks..... Also, did you read my very long post about that???

In my opinion, you people are all very biased against the prequels because you are very nostaglic about the good ol days of the originals trilogy; however, in my opinion, neither trilogy is all that good on its own, but when combined together, the star wars saga and series is awesome and it's is my favorite science fiction/sci-fi story of all time!!!!

Wexter said:

He would probably abolish sand and ride on a giant flea on national holidays.

 

Other than that, he would be a pretty boring ruler, methinks.

I believe that Darth Vader would not have used the death stars, any of them.... Who agrees with my observation??

The main reason that the Rebellion Alliance fought to overthrow the Galactic Sith Empire was because of the death stars. Without the death stars, what would darth vader do that would make him an evil dictator and tyrant??

Maybe he would've been a guy who opposed all dissenters-like imperial officers, soldiers, and admirals, that didn't agree with his decisions as the galactic emperor?? Hmm. Maybe he might've just had done purges, similar to the purges that Joseph Stalin did during the Soviet Union Russia in the early-mid 1900s.....

Star wars's awesomeness comes a lot from and through it's subtley. That's is the charm of those movies. They don't explicity show you why the bad guys are evil and bad;it's is just implied and you got to infer things that happen behind the scenes, especially by using the EU (the expanded universe...

Here's is one thing that I don't understand. Did Luke Skywalker refuse to join Darth Vader for religious/spiritual/philosophical reasons, or for other reasons???

Wexter said:

I think it is because the first three films ("Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace", "Star Wars Episode II: Attack of The Clones" and "Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith"), are kinda tragic.

Why??

Wexter said:

Father Skywalker said:

Ok, now I kinda understand it. ""Star Wars" is another name/word for star wars episode 4-a new hope; being that it was originally intended to be one movie, rather than an entire saga and series, the first one got the nickname "star wars", and just "star wars"......

I know, it's a neat little story, innit? I mean to nickname "Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope" just "Star Wars"... It's like they didn't know about "The Tragedy Of Darth Vader" back then. And then when "Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back"  came everyone would be like "WHAAAAAAT...?" because they thought they missed something.

But they didn't, becuz "Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back" is the direct sequel to "Episode IV: A New Hope", if you disregard the EU (Expanded Universe).

Why is Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker's story called a "tragedy"???

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Father Skywalker said:

I aint trolling.....

"Star Wars" is the name of a great movie that came out in 1977.  A series of altered versions of the same movie started appearing years later under a different name.  This is easily verified by a mountain of historic artifacts.  The primary purpose of this forum is to support efforts to preserve the original 1977 movie.  Saying that it doesn't exist is thus anathema to posting here.

Ok, now I kinda understand it. ""Star Wars" is another name/word for star wars episode 4-a new hope; being that it was originally intended to be one movie, rather than an entire saga and series, the first one got the nickname "star wars", and just "star wars"......

Tyrphanax said:

Father Skywalker said:

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Father Skywalker said:

Why I love Episode 5 the most is imaging a scarred, burned, pale-white skinned (like an egg), bald, middle-aged Hayden Christensen underneath darth vader's cyborg samurai robot suit........

Strike one.

Strike one?? Why?? I just like continuity stuff. When Anakin Skywalker slaughtered the Seperatist council that was hiding on Mustafar, lead the stormtroopers/clonetroopers into the Jedi Temple invasion, force-choked Padme amidala his wife, dueled Obi-Wan Kenobi in that agile fast fight amongst the lava, and was burned to crisps in the immolation scene, he was already Darth Vader, despite not looking the the cybernetic samurai with black armor and a helmet and the robot breathing and the deep james earl jones voice, and being played by the handsome long haired hayden christensen.....

The suit does not make him Darth Vader. The point is, I like to imagine Darth Vader from Episode 5 with the same face that he had in Episode 3, when he was a younger dark lord of the Sith. Its for continuity reasons/purposes, and it just seems plain awesome, hayden christensen's scarred face and voice under that iconic samurai mask in the original trilogy's most famous scenes and moments!!!!

As this website and the associated forum is dedicated to calling for the restoration and preservation of the original, unaltered, theatrical editions of the original trilogy; fan efforts to document and remove all of the tinkering Lucas has wrought since the films were released; discussion of Lucas' intentional suppression and intent to replace the original editions of the films with his altered versions; and how several of our members have renounced their ability to be fans of Star Wars due to the alterations of the Special Editions and the lackluster Prequel Trilogy; the general consensus in this community is that the Special Editions of the films and the following Prequel Trilogy were awful, awful films and any mention of sullying the Original Trilogy with Hayden Christensen's portrayal of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader is sure to make most of the members' skin crawl.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinions, and I, personally, will welcome you no less than any other member; but you should not be surprised when posts referencing the Special Editions or Prequel Trilogy in a positive light are not well-received.

If you haven't already, I urge you to take a look at SaveStarWars.com to get an idea of the general mindset of the member base and our cause.

I don't understand why people hate me, or more accuratley, nobody here hates me, but rather, my strong, extreme, opinions regarding Hayden Christensen.....People are complaining about bad dialogue, for instance, the guy that responded to what I said about hayden christensen's face in episode 5.... But why??? I enjoy listening to the opposite viewpoints and opinions, regardless of how disagreeing somebody is with me, that's is the whole point!!!!

I love expressing my opinions with people who disagree with me!!!

Just because the actor was given bad dialogue and script and horrible crappy lines, that does not have anything to do with the actor himself, but rather, the role/job that he was given... For instance, I dislike cheesy movies not because of the actors himself/herself/themselves, but because of the roles that they are given....

Anakin Skywalker had no cheesy dialogue in the original trilogy, when he was Darth Vader.... So imaging Hayden Christensen's face and voice underneath his iconic/famous samurai mask and helmet, has nothing to do with the crappy dialogue from AOTC or ROTS...

I am in favor of, the scene where Darth Vader is in his little breathing pod and talking to the imperial admirals/officers, adding Hayden christensen's face into that part.... No offense here, I aint trying to get anybody here angry or annoyed, that's is just my opinion....

Also, my theory is this; people are so used to seeing the iconic cyborg samurai black knight Darth Vader with the James earl jones voice and robotic breathing, that seeing him in a human-looking form without the robot suit, especially as a strking handsome-long haired young man, offends them because they aint used to that... 

Well, Obi Wan/Ben Kenobi said in star wars episode 4 a new hope, "a young jedi named darth vader, who was a pupil of mine before he turned to evil, helped the  empire hunt down and destroy the jedi knights"..... "He's is more machine now than man, twisted and evil"..... 

Even before episode 3 ROTS (revenge of the sith), long before that, in the novelizations, they mentioned darth vader/anakin skywalker looking like a normal looking dude.... Even with just the movies and no EU expanded universe, you can tell that he got deformed and gross and ugly and pale looking somehow... Before that, he was a normal looking guy and person....

LexX said:

Father Skywalker said:

Markdav said:

I never saw any of the Star Wars movies as a kid, but I always do remember hearing from most fans that Star Wars was the best of the trilogy.  To be sure, I looked up IMDB's top 250 in 1996, and found that Star Wars was ranked #1, and Empire was ranked #26!  Below is the link to prove it.

 

http://web.archive.org/web/19961219233558/us.imdb.com/top_250_films

 

I looked at more lists, and found that around 2004-2005 is when ESB surpassed Star Wars on the list, and today ESB is the only Star Wars movie on the top ten.  Now I'm sure there were plenty of people in the 1980s and 1990s who considered ESB the best of the trilogy, but it seems like in the 1980s and 1990s Star Wars was considered the masterpiece of the trilogy, with Empire ranked behind it.  Now, in 2010, Empire is widely considered the crowning achievement of the saga.  Has anyone else noticed how opinions on these two films seem to have changed over the years?  I'm curious as to why they've change the way they did.

Star Wars is not a movie. There is no Star wars, episode, star wars. Star wars is the name of all 6 movies in both trilogies, not a paticular movie in paticular..... All Star wars films are called/named star wars; not a paticular movie called "star wars"...

LOL. Nice trolling.

I aint trolling.....

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Father Skywalker said:

Why I love Episode 5 the most is imaging a scarred, burned, pale-white skinned (like an egg), bald, middle-aged Hayden Christensen underneath darth vader's cyborg samurai robot suit........

Strike one.

Strike one?? Why?? I just like continuity stuff. When Anakin Skywalker slaughtered the Seperatist council that was hiding on Mustafar, lead the stormtroopers/clonetroopers into the Jedi Temple invasion, force-choked Padme amidala his wife, dueled Obi-Wan Kenobi in that agile fast fight amongst the lava, and was burned to crisps in the immolation scene, he was already Darth Vader, despite not looking the the cybernetic samurai with black armor and a helmet and the robot breathing and the deep james earl jones voice, and being played by the handsome long haired hayden christensen.....

The suit does not make him Darth Vader. The point is, I like to imagine Darth Vader from Episode 5 with the same face that he had in Episode 3, when he was a younger dark lord of the Sith. Its for continuity reasons/purposes, and it just seems plain awesome, hayden christensen's scarred face and voice under that iconic samurai mask in the original trilogy's most famous scenes and moments!!!!

the empire strikes back was just a plain awesome movie!!!! Who agrees with me???

Markdav said:

I never saw any of the Star Wars movies as a kid, but I always do remember hearing from most fans that Star Wars was the best of the trilogy.  To be sure, I looked up IMDB's top 250 in 1996, and found that Star Wars was ranked #1, and Empire was ranked #26!  Below is the link to prove it.

 

http://web.archive.org/web/19961219233558/us.imdb.com/top_250_films

 

I looked at more lists, and found that around 2004-2005 is when ESB surpassed Star Wars on the list, and today ESB is the only Star Wars movie on the top ten.  Now I'm sure there were plenty of people in the 1980s and 1990s who considered ESB the best of the trilogy, but it seems like in the 1980s and 1990s Star Wars was considered the masterpiece of the trilogy, with Empire ranked behind it.  Now, in 2010, Empire is widely considered the crowning achievement of the saga.  Has anyone else noticed how opinions on these two films seem to have changed over the years?  I'm curious as to why they've change the way they did.

Star Wars is not a movie. There is no Star wars, episode, star wars. Star wars is the name of all 6 movies in both trilogies, not a paticular movie in paticular..... All Star wars films are called/named star wars; not a paticular movie called "star wars"...

Trooperman said:

Washington Post in 1980:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/movies/review97/empirestrikesbackmartin.htm

It actually depends on your perspective- but more importantly, on whether or not your opinion is educated or not. I love ESB, especially after watching the prequels.......

Basically, episode 5 is about Darth Vader, aka Anakin Skywalker, trying to recruit his son Luke Skywalker to become his new Sith apprentice (aka Darth X or Y, a new Darth basically), so that they could overthrow his Sith Master, Darth Sidious, the Emperor, and rule the galaxy together as father and son.... Remember how anakin killed count dooku to replace him as palpatine's new sith apprentice-darth vader?? And how the emperor wanted Luke to kill Vader so that he could have Luke become his apprentice??

The Rule of Two. Only two sith lords at a time-a master and an apprentice. Darth Vader wanted to kill the emperor so that luke could become his new sith apprentice and he could rule the empire with his family.....

So, darth vader had an elaborate scheme and plan involving capturing/kidnapping Han Solo and Princess Leia by making a deal with Lando Calirissian at Cloud City, so that Luke would go and rescue them, and he could confront Luke and tempt the young Skywalker to the Darkside of the force, to become a dark lord of the sith. 

Anakin was a young man when he became darth vader and was tempted by the darkside. Same thing with Luke, except that Luke refused. Awesome, interesting parallels. Vader wants companionship with Luke, like he did with Luke's mother, and both refuse to join him.....

Why I love Episode 5 the most is imaging a scarred, burned, pale-white skinned (like an egg), bald, middle-aged Hayden Christensen underneath darth vader's cyborg samurai robot suit........

Basically, with everything that I said above, who can hate ESB?? Its an awesome kickass film!!!

jedinickca said:

Hey  Trilogy fans! New here. Wanted to share some research I did. We figured out how many average US homes would fit into the Death Star, and built an infographic to explain our results: http://www.movoto.com/blog/infographic/death-star/

 

Enjoy!

Nick

Questions like these are very hard to answer, no offense, because they are very much about detail. I'm pretty sure that the EU (the expanded universe), if that is even canon (oh no i hate canon debates!), might explain that, but that's very hard to tell. I myself researched the size of the death star, but I was very confused at the results..... Probably millions of people died on them. Sadly, while most, if not all, escaped the DS2 (the second death star's explosion), since they had an evacuation, most died on the first death star (aka DS1).....

War is hell, but, I mean, yeah, the rebels had to protect innocent imperial civlians from the both death stars, and the imperial soldiers are either on it or off of if it they are lucky enough to get off of it...... I aint sure if Tiaan Jerjerrod escaped in time. Anyways, how many houses can fit in it depends on its size. Its probably smaller than earth, but the proportions of this are very, extremley confusing. What was the size difference between the two death stars??? I don't know, some say a little bit, I found a picture where the second death star was like 20 times bigger than the first deth star..... I love it when people like you aren't like the shallow people who just watch movies for entertainment, you actually get into the details of the story, like an intelligent, inqusitive, book reader!!!!!

Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker, did want to be the ruler of the galaxy himself. Being a Sith Lord, the evil sith have a habit/tradition of overthrowing and killing their sith masters and taking their place, like a power struggle amongst each other. The sith are like a real group of backstabbers.

So, it's very safe to assume, very implied, if not explicitly told to the audience enough, during the films (episodes 3 and 5), that anakin wanted to overthrow Palpatine and become the galactic Emperor himself...

Episode 3-"I am more powerful than the Chancellor, I can overthrow him! And together you and I can rule the galaxy, make things the way we want them to be"! He asks his wife padme amidala to rule the galaxy with him by his side. He is a power hungry man. He even said, "My new empire".

Episode 5, "Luke, you can destroy the Emperor, he has forseen this, it is your destiny. Join me and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son"!

The entire plot of Episode 5 revolved around darth vader trying to lure luke skywalker into a trap so that he could recruit luke into becoming his new sith lord apprentice, (there can only be 2 sith lords at a time-the Rule of Two, mentioned by Yoda in episode 1), and that anakin could be the Emperor of the galaxy with luke as his apprentice and new Darth, the Sith ruling the galaxy, and overthrow Darth Sidious, his master.

Now, me, I aint really a fan of hypotheticals and what if scenarios in fiction, just for the sake of it, but when it pertains to the story and is relevant, I really am, and I enjoy speculating on what if scenarios. What kind of ruler would darth vader have been, if he succeeded and ovethrew Palpatine??

The first thing I am very curious about is what he meant by " we rule the galaxy together", what anakin had told his wife and his son. Did he mean rule as equals, ie, a diummvarate, where 2 people share absolute and equal power together, kind of like 2 dictators sharing the same power together over their nation, or, did he mean having Padme or Luke having high positions of authority, maybe even like a second-in command? What kind of role in government did he want to give his family?

More importantly, how would he have been as a dictator? Darth Vader was no fan of the Death Star. I believe that if he was the emperor, he would not have the death star. He wasn't all that impressed of the "technological terror", and that the ability to destroy planets was insignifcant next to the power of the force, he once said. So, in my opinion, he would have been an enlightened despot, a benevolent dictator, a more-or less harmless ruler that, his rule would not affect the trillions-quadrillions of galactic citizens and average joes in the least bit.

I'm actually suprised why padme didn't join him. OK, i know i sound crazy defending an evil famous villian-but really? The death star, the main reason that the galactic empire was so evil, was only because of palpatine being in charge, as the ruler. With Anakin as the ruler, with his own ideas, no death star.

I thought of it. If Luke joined darth vader and they ruled the galaxy together, without the death star, why would that be so bad?? Would the rebels still accept them?

More importantly, this is a page about speculation. We are just fans speculating on hypotheticals here. There may have been other reasons that darth vader/and or the galactic empire/sith rule of the galaxy would be evil. The death star plans was from episode 2, with the genosians, and  the idea may have been even earlier than that, during episode 1 TPM, I think the expanded universe says. It was a recent sith weapon...

Mace windu said that "the opression of the sith will never return" and darth sidious said that "once more the sith will rule the galaxy", those two lines of dialogue implied that the Sith Lords ruled the galaxy in the past as evil, opressive, dictators and tyrants, long before they ever had the death star. The death star may just be another evil thing that the sith do, among others, to opress the galaxy. What else did they do that made them evil dictators, other than the death star?? Remember, Revenge of the sith means revenge against the jedi destroying their galactic sith empire 1000 milllenia ago (they ruled fractions of the galaxy only, not an entire galactic empire-hence the first galactic empire, but they still ruled significant amounts). 

The point is, that if Darth Vader was the Emperor, he would have done other evil stuff, like the ancient olden days sith empires did, without the death stars. He seemed very intolerant of dissent among imperial officers too, so that would be a hint to his nature as the galactic emperor. 

Feel free to speculate on how Darth Vader would have been like as a ruler if he became the Sith Emperor of the galaxy, with either Luke or Padme at his side, if he ever did succeeded and overthrow Emperor Palpatine!!!!