Fang Zei

Okay, this thread exploded over the last couple days. I've simply skimmed over each page, I'm not gonna read each and every post on the last 15 pages.

My reactions:

-Jabba's Door - first off, why did they add this? Secondly, it looks terrible.

-The blinking eyes - so now they've actually created a continuity problem as the ewoks don't blink in the ewok movies.

-Han's de-freezing: You have got to be kidding me! Just like Jabba's new door, it looks terrible. What was the rationale for this anyway? It's almost as if Lucas is ashamed of the early 80's optical effects that don't gel with the look of the prequels, so he's just slathering it in bad photoshop.

-Obi-Wan's ridiculous howl: I'm not gonna lie, that literally made me laugh. Freakin' hilarious!!!

I'm sure there are more "surprises" yet to surface so I'll just leave my comments at that for now.

Now that I think about it, I guess I was kinda preaching to the choir with this thread.

Anyway, the reason I chose those dates is that those are the dates for the 3D conversions of ANH, ESB and ROTJ, respectively.

.... until 2015/16/17 for ultimate editions of Star Wars, Empire and Jedi, respectively? Because at this point, that's the absolute earliest chance I think we have of seeing the OOT properly restored.

It would be nice if GL threw in a theatrical TPM with its blu-ray 3D package next year, to hold us over.

zombie84 said:

Pagz: In late 2003, Lucasfilm did an HD telecine of the films, which they colour-corrected, added new effects to and had cleaned by Lowry. The 2004 DVD set was a standard-def downconversion of that. The HD version was always intended to eventually become the highest-quality master (i.e. for blu ray), but it seems they did attempt to fix a couple issues people complained about by taking that master and tweaking it ever so slightly.

Someone mentioned before--these are the masters being used for the 3D conversion. I wonder therefore if the extra brightness boost is not actually an attempt to fix anything but merely compensating for the dulling quality of the polarized 3D glasses. Michael Bay did this already with TF3--he boosted the brightness of the master so that when audiences saw it in 3D it would have the same luminance as a regular 2D print. I mean, even TPM is way brighter, slightly unnaturally so in some shots, and it never had any of the dullness and black crushing issues of the OT.

re: the fixes

This makes me wonder if they'll bother to do a fresh scan for the 3D conversion in 2015-17. I mean, if they're inserting fixes like the wampa arm into the 1080p scan from 2004, then maybe Mr. Ward really wasn't kidding when he called this a "digital negative that we can use for theatrical if we choose to do so." Granted, they already did this in 2004 with the new Jabba model, but still....

re: your second paragraph

Zombie, perhaps you're overthinking things a bit? They did a new 2K scan of TPM, and that was probably for two reasons. 1) It needed a new scan anyway since the old transfer looks pretty terrible by today's standards and 2) They needed a nice cinema-resolution scan for the 3D conversion.

But I don't see why any 3D-related tweaks such as brightness boosting would be on the blu-ray transfer since, well, this is 2D.

The suppression of the OOT has got to be the biggest of all elephants in the room when it comes to the subject of the availability of motion pictures on home video.

I am truly convinced that the only reason Lucas continues to withhold it is money. He'll make that much more in the long run, he already has (see: GOUT).

I would be very surprised if the deleted scenes weren't 1080p. Didn't LFL say in so many words way back when (I'm talking at least a year ago) that they were going through the vault cataloging everything????

Oh, wait. These are the same people who said in 2006 that they "returned to the archives" to bring us what ended up being laserdisc masters of the OOT.

Several in this thread have pretty much nailed what's so bothersome about the prequels.

Lucas filled the original films with cgi so that when he made the prequels they would visually blend better with the OT, instead of leaving the originals alone and trying his best to make the prequels fit seamlessly with the OT. Moreover, it's a direct result of that philosophy that the OOT is now buried.

That said, I would love to see the theatrical prequels nicely preserved. Hell, I would think the new 2K scan of TPM could be the basis for such a preservation. Yeah, it's not a particularly good movie, but it was the second highest grossing movie of the 90's (here in the States, anyways). Likewise, the '97 SE of Star Wars should be preserved if for no other reason than its box office significance (still the highest grossing movie to open in January here in the States, AFAIK).

Just under a month until these street.

I bet screenshots will start surfacing any day now.

Seriously, when you look at how Apocalypse Now and Close Encounters of the Third Kind have their original versions nicely preserved for the foreseeable future of home video technology, it almost makes you nostalgic for 1992....

I wouldn't read too much into the exact coloration of things in that trailer, folks. Wait until actual screenshots from the discs are out there.

I know this thread's a month old, but the link in the "save star wars dot com" thread brought it to my attention.

Yeah, I was hoping those early screenshots posted back in June would turn out to be erroneous, but that's actually what the final discs look like.

Personally, I'm waiting until they release competent transfers of both versions. The theatrical blu-rays were of such low quality, and people are so misinformed that they largely passed it off as "the way they've always looked."

As for the color-timing issues on the new FOTR EE blu-ray, well, there are so many factors to consider that I won't go into. What I will say is that the "dissolve to white" after Arwen saves Frodo from the Nazgul is now a "dissolve to a heavily green-tinted white." There's a green tint over the entire running time of the new transfer actually. It's pretty serious evidence that a mistake was made at some point in the pipeline.

Even if they don't do a replacement program, I would hope they fix it by the time the "ultimate" blu-ray comes out (unless, as we've discussed, this really is how PJ and Andrew Lesnie wanted it to look /doubtful).

Six weeks (or so) until this officially streets. I wonder when we'll start seeing screenshots. I'm curious how the new TPM transfer looks.

Back when Avatar came out, 11.00 was the standard price at my theater and real-d was 14.00. The fake-MAX screen there opened several months later (March of 2010 for Alice in Wonderland). By the time Tron: Legacy hit (exactly 1 year after Avatar), the standard price had creeped up to 11.50 and if I remember correctly real-d was 15.50, IMAX 16.50 and IMAX-3D was 17.50.

skyjedi2005 said:

Lucas cannot be bothered with having a branching feature, or you could watch Phantom Menace in its theatrical version and they would include the theatrical audio as heard on the laserdisc.

Not my favorite film of all time however the theatrical cut is so much better than the DVD version which lags.

The only way i can watch the theater version is on laserdisc with burnt in subtitles and dubious picture quality for a late in the formats life Laserdisc release.

I want a blu-ray of the theatrical cut of TPM almost as much as I want blu-rays of the OOT!

It's especially ridiculous when you consider the fact that just about every important film from that era except the OOT has been nicely restored or at the very least faithfully remastered in hi-def.

Well said, ESHBG!

What was annoying to me about the GOUT was how Lucas basically exploited the hell out of people's nostalgia. I can't think of any other movie (or series of movies) that a company could get away with shoveling laserdisc-era transfers of onto dvd in 2006 when we had hd-on-disc formats (for crying out loud) and still sell as many copies. Star Wars defies comparison in many ways, and this is just one of them.

Since no one's brought it up yet....

Maybe part of the reason they chose AOTC Yoda as the "big face" on the PT blu-ray is because they've now replaced the TPM puppet with the (ironically much closer-looking to the TESB/ROTJ puppet) digital model?

Also, while I'm on the subject:

If LFL ever put out some sort of "ultimate edition" blu-ray of TPM that included the theatrical cut (perhaps late next year for the blu-ray 3D, hint-hint if you're reading this, LFL) I would seriously consider paying good money for it. Regardless of our opinions on the movie, it had one of the highest U.S. box office grosses of the 90's (second only to Titanic for that entire decade, if I'm not mistaken) and the original version deserves to be preserved if for no other reason than history.

By the way, I'll take this opportunity to reiterate my desire for ultimate sets of the OT that include not only the OOT but the '97 OT as well. Doesn't ANH SE still have the highest U.S. January gross of all time? Talk about box office!

Can someone please just copy/paste the text here for all of us to see? I've been curious for a while now about what exactly will be in the set, but I'm not curious enough to "share" just so I can find out.

Jesus, LFL. I know everyone basically lives on facebook now, but just tell us already. We've known for a while that this won't include the OOT. Now that would be share-worthy.

The problem in our society is that it's difficult to argue the quality of something that made a shit-ton of money. The masses, by and large, simply do not care as long as they're entertained on some level. It's the culture, whatya gonna do.

I should just start another thread about this (how did we even get this far off topic in the first place????), but most of us can agree that George shouldn't have directed the prequels, yes? Can we agree that George could've hired a better director and still made just as much money at the box office on Episode I so that (gasp) more people would've come back to see Episode II????

That's my biggest problem with the prequels. They would've made a ton of money either way, so why couldn't George have just hired three good directors?

Yes, I realize that opens up a whole new can of worms. Let's face it, even if George had done so, he still would've been a control freak about it.

I still think we would've gotten significantly better movies, though.

I'm sorry, but originator of the franchise or not, it's a conflict of interest when the guy who is paying the $100 million for the movie is also its director.

The Empire Strikes Back would not be regarded the way it is today if it hadn't been for the efforts of Lawrence Kasdan, Leigh Brackett, Irvin Kershner and Peter Suschitzky. Yes, it's commendable that George paid for the whole thing himself in order to avoid Hollywood looking over his shoulder, but aside from writing the story he should've left it at that for the other four movies.

It's awkward to me that the "saga" in chronological order is three movies made by a billionaire followed by a movie made by a previously low-budget director, followed by a really amazing sequel, followed by an okay but nevertheless satisfactory ending.

Hmmmm, okay, to wrap up my ramblings, I guess the question I ask is whether the prequels could've been just as profitable for LFL but still had new writers, directors and cinematographers.

Patrick R. said:

I've said it a thousand times before, but I will say it again. They only need to restore the parts that were altered and reinsert those back into the films. So the whole argument about it being too expensive to restore the original versions is ridiculous.

It would be nice to have some good news on May 4th, but I am not holding my breath.

Nah, I remember reading several months ago that the OT and PT blu-ray sets would be 4 discs each, with a bonus ninth disc in the "saga" set. Besides, even if Lucas actually intends to properly restore the original versions, he was never going to include it in this initial release. The guy from Wired magazine put it best back in September of '06, "they're not gonna make the fans happy because the happy fan has everything he or she needs."

At this rate, all I'm really curious about is how the double/triple/quadruple dips are gonna pan out. The 3D conversion of TPM hits theaters in february and I can only assume the business people at LFL have prescience and know this thing is gonna be a box office success, because it would be pretty embarrassing for them if it flopped after they said "we're going to convert all six movies and release them one per year."

By the way, when was the last time anyone heard anything about the live-action tv series???

Obviously, all I really care about is how all of this affects the original versions getting properly restored.

That's my thoughts exactly, SilverWook. I'll never forget when the TPM teaser came out and it was all over the news and they were interviewing people who were watching it at a public video village tent type thing on the sidewalk somewhere and this one kid was like "They showed Yoda, and he looked young!" Even back then, as a 13 year old, I realized how idiotic that statement was, because how much is 32 years supposed to make when you're pushing 900?

If this first blu-ray release (which I won't be buying, no matter what) only includes the SE version of the OT, then I have no problem with that horrendously botched puppet in TPM being replaced with the digital model that, ironically, looks much closer to how the puppet in Empire and Jedi looked.

The most frustrating thing about the PT is how it was ruined by George's midlife crisis. The man hadn't directed anything in two decades (with the possible exception of some Young Indy episodes) and then, all of a sudden, he just jumps right back into the director's chair for the most anticipated movie of all time. He should've realized his own limits. Obviously he stayed a filmmaker following Star Wars, not a director but a producer and an idea man (Indy, Labyrinth, Howard the Duck, Willow, etc) and that's how he should've stayed! The prequels should've been made like Empire was: Lucas writes the story (and writes the checks) but other people write the screenplay and direct.

"Unfortunately we have a creator who accepted help from others to cover up his flaws as a storyteller then forgot that he needed that help."

Couldn't have said it better myself, sexyloser.

It's worth pointing out that some key crew members from Young Indy and Radioland Murders (McCallum, Tattersall, Bocquet) carried over to the Prequels. Bocquet was at least one of the handful of people who'd worked on the OT (Jedi). Aside from Williams and Burtt (and Muren for TPM and AOTC), I can't think of anyone else from the OT who carried over.

The collaborative spirit made the OT. That's the ironic thing about Lucas, he failed to see it. He wanted to cut out everyone and everything that was getting in the way of his "vision." First thing you hear him say on the TPM documentary is how he thinks the auteur theory really is true. Well, okay George, but you didn't direct Empire and you only sorta directed Jedi. As for Star Wars '77, well, he certainly deserves all the credit in the world for powering through that literal heart attack of an experience, but that's what made him say "y'know what, I'm done being a director" and that's how it should've stayed.

Lucas fought so hard for control that once he gained that control he didn't want to give it up. Why go through the trouble and inconvenience of dealing with screenwriters and directors when he could afford to just do it all himself?

Universal just announced American Graffiti for a blu-ray release in May and, unsurprisingly, it's gonna be the Special Edition (if not an extra-special one with even more changes). I'm not the least bit surprised by this, but it once again raises some questions in my mind.

We all know what the situation is with Star Wars, but what kind of control does Lucas have over THX-1138 and Graffiti? If Universal wanted to include the original version of Graffiti, would there be anything Lucas could do to stop them?

Universal just announced American Graffiti for a blu-ray release in May. The words SPECIAL EDITION are in big bold letters on the temp art and there's going to be a picture-in-picture commentary by Lucas, so that leaves little doubt as to which version of the movie will be included and which ones won't.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not surprised in the least. Since WB already put out the 2004-only blu-ray of THX-1138 and the "complete saga" of Star Wars is hitting in September from Lucas and Fox, Universal would make them look pretty awkward if they'd gone all Close Encounters with this release.

Who knows, maybe in 2013 there will be yet another domino effect and we'll get the original versions of THX, Graffiti and the OT (hey, one can dream).

Random stuff my friend and I were talking about yesterday:

-Who built the training lightsabers those younglings are using in the temple?

-What's the deal with the blast-shield helmet Luke was using to practice with the training remote? Was it just laying around the Falcon?