Fang Zei

Y'know, the subject of the digital re-comps raised a good question in my mind:

When they removed the original pieces of negative to replace them with the digital re-comps, did they place the original pieces in storage somewhere? Or did they simply throw them out? After all, those pieces were pretty faded because of the particular film stock used for those shots. If we were to get a 100% restoration of the true OOT, would the o-neg for those shots be salvageable or would they be beyond all hope of restoration after all this time (34 years and counting)????

Zombie, out of curiosity do you know if ILM saved the final digital renders for the re-comps and cgi shots back in '97?

My guess has always been that they didn't, since the '97 cgi shots in the 2004 transfer exhibit filmic anomalies like gate weave. Just look at the beginning of the new entrance to mos eisley. The "camera" is supposed to be stationary at the beginning of the shot (where the asp droid swats the hovering droid that's annoying him), but the frame isn't remaining perfectly still. In other words, it looks like it was scanned off the o-neg like everything else.

The whole reason I ask is that it seems stupid to do a 3D conversion of the OT-SE using a scan of a filmout of a cgi shot instead of just going back to the original cgi shot.

Simple explanation for the 2004 colors being messed up: they went back to the negative, which doesn't contain any of the color-timing information.

No, I wouldn't buy it.

Why would it be so complicated to just give us the 100% original version "as is" anyway?????

In my opinion, since Lucas has taken the "restoration" of the OT so far in one direction, I say that makes it all the more important to go an equal distance in the opposite direction. That means a restoration of the original version without a single change.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Hostmaster said:

The Star Wars Saga will never have a perfect edition.

If Lucas does it, for him will be like killing the chicken of the golden eggs.

What's he gonna sell in the future if he gives to us now a reference edition with our beloved OT?

There would always be the next better format, or the next better transfer technology.  Do you really believe that blu ray is the final format?  The future will also bring features that don't exist now, such as the ability to mark sections or build your own version out of alternate takes.  Or install it on a network or integrate it with your smart phone.  If he gives us something great, we'll be in it for the next version too.  We bought the VHS, then the LD, then the DVD, then the blu ray.  It won't stop there.  Plus, *I* would buy his next special edition if he also released the OUT.  Now, I'm not buying anything.

Here's what I would do if I were Lucas:

When it comes time to do the 3D conversion of A New Hope, do a new 4K scan (I can't believe they'd work from what will be an eleven-years-old 1080p master anyway). They would probably have to re-do the 2004/2011 changes, but they're few and far between if you ask me. After the proper color-timing, this would not only yield the 1997 SE, but also like 80% of the original version. Take the missing pieces out of storage and scan those in to complete a new master of the unaltered version, and color-time that as well.

When the blu-ray 3D hits later that year, just throw in the '97 SE and the original version on their own separate discs and charge a hefty price tag for the whole thing. Then just do the same for Empire in 2016 and the same thing for Jedi the year after that.

Lucas had made it pretty clear that it's all about money and not about his "vision." Actions speak louder than words. He even dumped a 1993 master onto dvd in 2006 just to maximize his profits. If he included both the '97 and original versions in high quality, you guys all know you would at least seriously consider buying it (I know I would).

Either way, Lucas will eventually see the potential for $$$$. If he doesn't include the older versions as a selling point for an otherwise superfluous 3D conversion (which would be a smart move if you ask me), then he'll at the very least do one last dip after that to shut us all up.

Mark my words, something will happen eventually. Lucas is too much of a businessman to pass it up.

I predict the number of signatures on the new petition will greatly increase in the coming weeks and months....

R2D2 said:

Just a mini update:

• SW4-6 blu rays don't have any easter eggs but plenty of Gigabyte free
• ROTJ: During the Vader throws down Palpatine scene (which is critisized the most in this release) GL talks in the audio commentary about how you can read his emotions from the mask. It's such ironical.

 

Didn't have the interest to watch the prequels yet.

It will be interesting to see how the vintage documentaries will look as Adywan source said they do come from old VHS/Laserdisc masters from the 80's/90's. Interlaced SD content, not prepared to be viewed on progressive (HD) displays. Such effort definately deserves THX blu ray disc certificate *sarcastic*.

 

 

Oh, that's nothing.

Kenneth Branagh's four-hour, 65mm-shot Hamlet takes up like 35 gigs or something on its blu-ray.

The three-hour-each theatrical LOTRs take up barely 40 gigs each.

The two-and-a-half hour Goodfellas takes up less than 25.

For a two hour movie like Star Wars, 40 gigs is plenty.

Ah, Freiheit, starring none other than the director of such classic films as Grease and Honey, I Blew Up the Kid!

Right, the only difference is that there's a discrete center surround this time instead of a matrixed one.

skyjedi2005 said:

It would be nice to have official screenings of the vintage versions of the films fully restored from the negative and best possible surviving sources.

We all know Lucas is never going to allow that.

Sky, these are my thoughts exactly.

Every time I read about a classic film getting a nice theatrical restoration (the most recent example being Ben-Hur), I think of how awesome that would be.

That's why it kinda gives me a kick to think that the next best thing - literally - happened in Baltimore last Summer.

Still, it's nice to dream about the smaller revival houses across the country screening digital prints of the OOT while Lucas gets to have his cake with the 3D versions in multiplexes.

They were showing the '97's at the AFI in Silver Spring, Maryland back during the summer of '05.

Honestly, I think Jim Ward's comment back in '04 about them now having a "digital negative" is kinda laughable. A 1080p master of a cinemascope film is sure as hell not a digital negative.

The past seven years bears that out. Has there yet been an actual theatrical projection of the '04 master??? Sticking the dvds in a player at a convention doesn't count.

It's funny just how much Star Wars has changed in my eyes over the last seven years. When the 2004 dvd set came out, I was pretty psyched.

2006 is when it really started going downhill for me. That day in May of '06 when I read confirmation from Bill Hunt at thedigitalbits that the unaltered Star Wars trilogy would in fact be from the laserdisc masters and that Jim Ward's comment about "state of the art, 1993" was quite literal .... oh boy, I lost a lot of respect for Lucasfilm. I would've rather they put out nothing at all than shovel obsolete transfers whilst acting like they were doing us a favor. It was just insulting.

Of course, I had become an avid collector of the comics around 2005 and kept doing so for a while after that, but I must've stopped a couple years ago because I literally can't remember the last time I bought anything Star Wars related.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if ILM saved the final digital files for the 1997 cg special edition shots???

My guess would be "no," since the 2004 dvd revealed noticeable gate weave and other filmic anomalies. I'm guessing they just filmed them out in '97 and didn't bother to save the files.

The reason I ask is this:

When they eventually get around to the 3D conversion, even if they do a new scan they'll be working from filmouts for those '97 cg shots. I'd imagine it would look better if they had those original 2K files to work with for those shots.

Also, while I'm on the subject of a new scan, I should point out that a decent 4K scan would kill several birds with one stone. Right off the bat you would have, right there, a scan of the '97 version (you would have to color correct it of course, but it's the '97 edit). You would need to redo the 2004/2011 changes, but c'mon, that's doable. Last but not least, you would have, what, 80-90% of the OOT? Just scan in the missing pieces and voila, that's everything.

Yeah, I know, I should keep dreaming.

(cue the Beach Boys' "Oh, wouldn't it be nice?")

Looks like someone spotted another change to TPM (unless it's fake):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=20911739&postcount=5501

Can anyone confirm this???

captainsolo, that's exactly why I would hope that by the time LFL gets around to the 3D theatrical re-release in 2015 that they actually bother to do a new 4K scan. This will be an ancient, 11-year-old 1080p master (hell, it's ancient today in 2011!) and by then it will have been about time for them to do a new scan anyway. Even with movies that were only shot in 1080p, I'm pretty sure the effects and everything are rendered in 2K (so the live-action stuff is upscaled slightly, I'm pretty sure Clones and Sith were done this way, the scope version of Avatar also). Not that I could care any less, I'm not giving Lucas my money until he gives us the originals. I wouldn't pay to see the movies in post-converted 3D even if they were from the original versions!!!

This is why I think it is ultimately about money and not about vision to George. Why else would he have even bothered to put out the GOUT instead of nothing at all? That right there is proof to me that it's all about money because the guy didn't even want to spend money to remaster the thing, he just wanted to make money off of it.

I'm not subscribed so I can't read the whole thing. Six years could mean from 2005, but they didn't actually start airing it until 2008, so it could also mean 2014.

Ugh, what the hell ever happened to George? It's like in the mid-90's his whole philosophy of film-making suddenly changed.

"Hey, George, how about we get three great directors, one for each of the prequels???"

"Nah, I'll just fill the original trilogy with cgi and direct the prequels myself. That way, they'll look better by comparison."

Let's nevermind the fact that the guy hadn't directed anything since 1977. Seriously, when you're in charge of a billion dollar corporation, it's pretty hard to be an artist at the same time. I just don't think you can have it both ways.

Episode I was GL's midlife crisis.

Which makes me wonder when the Spike deal expires, as those are also still the 2004 versions.

I literally just read all that text out loud to myself (and had a blast doing it). Has that photo of Leia been seen anywhere else? It doesn't look familiar to me.

George Lucas makes it pretty damn hard to be a Star Wars fan these days.

Gaffer Tape, I wholeheartedly agree with you concerning the theatrical versions of the prequels. Like I said in another post, it would be nice if GL showed some goodwill towards the fans by throwing in the theatrical cut of TPM with the blu-ray 3D package next year.

I should clarify for everyone on these forums that Lowry's 2004 restorations were only done at 1920:1080 (a.k.a. "Full HD"), not 2K. I know this because there was an audio recording of a press conference that I downloaded from TF.N back in '04 and someone asked the Lowry guys what resolution they were working at. They answered "1920:1080" and the journalist went "oh, so, 2K?" and the Lowry guy specified "Uhhhh, no, 1920:1080 HD."

re: The DNR on TPM.

You've gotta be kidding me if that's how the actual blu-ray looks. That's Predator: Ultimate Hunter Edition levels of bad DNR.

Poor George.

Star Wars became the biggest thing ever and he just couldn't handle it.

The mother of all vfx errors to me, and something I'm assuming they still haven't fixed for the blu-ray (unless they have???), is during the Battle of Endor.

When the Death Star II fires off its superlaser for the second time, we cut to it blowing up a ship as rebel fighters fly past the camera. The camera is rolling clockwise (or counterclockwise, I don't remember) relative to the forest moon below.

The only problem is that the fleet of big ships in the background rolls in unison with the camera!!!

Whoops!

This was obviously something they forgot to think about back in '83 when they were doing all of that complicated optical compositing.

skyjedi2005 said:

"He also tried to get Ron Howard to direct the Phantom Menace"

Is this true???!!! First I've heard of this!

The subject of why other people didn't direct the prequels is the one I'm most fascinated by, and thusfar I've come across next to zero info regarding it. I don't remember even Zombie's book having much on it.

In the Leonard Maltin interviews on the '95 vhs, Lucas mentions "I might direct the first one." Where did you hear about Ron Howard???!!! Yeah, obviously he and Lucas go all the way back to Graffiti and then worked together again on Willow, so I'm not exactly surprised to find this out. I would still love to know where you heard/read about this, though.