Looking at the engines, if the wings are designed to split like an x-wing (and it looks like they are), then this is yet another design inspired by the Ralph McQuarrie paintings.
Also off-topic, I noticed there was footage from the Brosnan 007 films in RMW's reel. I bring this up because the GoldenEye blu-ray, a long-awaited title, was horrendously DNR'd. The other three looked fine (I'm going purely off screenshots from blu-ray.com and elsewhere for all four films).
Anyway, I don't have the disc to do a comparison with the RMW footage. Anyone want to take a crack at it?
I honestly don't see where all this concern is coming from about how Disney might try and pass off an only partially de-specialized version on us.
They'd be called out immedialy and they know it.
Maybe after it got out into the news Disney was like "Hey, ya mind not listing something that big and unannounced on your website?!"
Ryan McAvoy said:
How long does a quality restoration take anyway?
With a little over a year to go 'til EpVII, it doesn't leave much time for a restoration project, including all the research needed, planning, scanning, cleaning, recompositing (?), designing of packaging, filming/editing of bonus materials, having the sets manufactured etc etc. Seeing the OT again at cinema or on Blu-Ray before the ST would be fantastic but theres not too much time left for it to happen.... nobody wants a rushed release.
For all we know, much of the restoration work might already be done. Those RMW employees' resumés seem to indicate this happened sometime between 2010 and 2012.
Well, technically they were just "postponed," which everyone took to be a nice way of saying "cancelled," but we don't really know that.
I bet Disney is calculating the best move here.
On the one hand, I could see a 3D trailer for a re-release really blowing away modern audiences if done correctly. It would be like the modern equivalent of the x-wing flying out of the tv screen in that first SE trailer from late '96.
On the other hand, there's the potential for backlash leading up to Episode 7. Rolling out the SE yet again, even if it's a more polished "final" version, might do more harm than good.
Jaitea said:
Harmy said:
Well, over-all, I'd say it's good news, because the existing 2004 master was horrible, so even if it was the altered version, which we've now confirmed it almost certainly is, it's still good that there is a new better master. On the other hand, the fact, that they seem to have decided to restore/remaster the altered version doesn't exactly bode well for an official OOT restoration.
I think it does seem pretty likely, that this "restoration" was done in 2012 for the planned 3D release, for which the 2004 1080p master didn't cut it any more, so they hired these guys to do the 2004/2011 version over from new 4K scans.
Yeah, I agree that it all stems from the preparation for the 3D version, & I'm happy that theres a superior clean version in the vaults
What theyre gonna do with it is the question though
J
This is kind of like when Jurassic Park got a new scan for its 3D conversion but the 2d transfer in the combo pack was still just the old blu-ray.
Speaking of which, I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of the 3D versions still happening. We probably just haven't heard anything in a while because of TPM 3D's mediocre box office and the change of plans following the Disney buy-out. I could also see them rolling out the last two prequels, even if it's a short run just to get them out of the way for the main course. RotS looks pretty three-dimensional already, so they'd have their work cut out for them.
But who knows, really. It seems like a given considering Ep7 will more than likely be converted to 3D. Then again, Disney might not want there to be backlash from rolling out the SE yet again. They might just focus on an OOT blu-ray to gain the fans' trust. Heck, maybe they'll do both.
Ultimately, they'll go with whatever option they think will make them the most money.
The fact that it says "4k 16-bit" by itself should be enough evidence it's a new scan, because those words don't describe the old scan at all.
From the photos I've seen of the theater, it doesn't look like the screen is particularly large. A 2k dcp from the 1920:1080 lowry master would probably still hold up rather well on that size screen and get the "wow, amazing" reactions posted on facebook yesterday.
Yeah, it was always highly unlikely that a brand new 4k transfer of any version of Star Wars was gonna debut under such circumstances.
The footage in RMW's reel does appear to be from the new scan. There's also footage of True Lies and The Abyss, which we know got new transfers for their long-awaited blu-rays later this year. Maybe the respective companies didn't care one way or the other about RMW showing off their hard work using footage from their movies, even though it kinda/sorta "spoils" whatever grand unveiling they might want to do later on in the form of an actual trailer, tv commercial or whatnot.
Danfun128 said:
twister111 said:
Please don't give Disney any ideas about "fixing" or "preserving changes". They "reversioned" Power Rangers and it was awful. Saban saved Power Rangers from being stuck like that, Lucas is not going to save Star Wars from any Disney reversioning.
Original versions first and foremost, preserved and properly restored. NO ALTERATION IDEAS ACCEPTABLE UNTIL THEN!!!!!!!!! NO EXCEPTIONS!!!Ahem, before 2010, and before 1994, WITCH BANDORA SHOT FIRST. Someone make a pic of that... Seriously though, Disney hasn't released its own films in their original format, so what makes you guys think Disney will release an hd OUT?
That's true, but I think the SE of Star Wars is probably the most well-known "other version" of a movie ever. Disney wouldn't hesitate to cater to the many fans out there who remember the OT as it once was.
I would hope Disney and Lucasfilm bring in Robert A. Harris to consult on the best way to go about restoring the unaltereds. Around the time of the 2011 blu-ray release he reassured everyone that the film materials were "well-protected." If his prior work is any indication, he certainly knows what he's talking about.
It actually should've gotten out by now if they started at 8:00 on the dot. The SE's running time is 2 hours and 5 minutes.
Oh, I bet it's no longer a big deal to George if the unaltered originals at least get a new transfer, just as long as it doesn't look better than his preferred version. You wonder what the exact terms of the sale were, but I just can't comprehend the idea of spending 4 Billion dollars for a property and getting everything except the Holy Grail of said property.
It would've been one thing if there was something legally stopping George from releasing the original versions. There was speculation back in '06 that we were getting the 1993 transfers not because of George's attitude but because of his divorce from Marcia. I think the theory was that this might've even been a prime motivator behind the creation of the SE in the first place, since they were technically different movies (or something) and none of the money made off of these new versions would go to Marcia.
I'm pretty sure those rumors were debunked, though.
EDIT: Supersonic kinda beat me to it. I'll just add that I don't see another blu-ray release happening without the original versions being included (even if you have to buy the latest version in order to get it). The OT on home video has pretty much run out of any other possible selling point.
See, the funny thing is that if this dcp they're showing tonight is from a new 4k scan/master of the o-neg (which, as we've discussed over and over again, is conformed to the '97 version) and it hasn't at all been "re-altered" to reflect the changes from '04 and '11, the only real difference between this screening and other authorized screenings of ANH that happen all the time is that one is an actual 35mm print and the other is a 4k dcp.
The way they're raving about how good those 20 minutes looked, it certainly sounds like this is the new 4k transfer and not the old one from Lowry.
While I highly doubt GL cares one way or the other about the OOT anymore (I would certainly hope 4 Billion dollars was enough for him to get over his hang-ups about it), I would also think he'd want both versions out there in equal quality, or at least have the SE out there in higher quality.
That's why I don't think this new 4k job is for anything other than the SE.
Could they use it to restore the OOT as well? Maybe, but I'd hope in that scenario that they would know exactly what they're doing.
Richard Marquand being dead didn't stop George from messing around with RotJ.
But honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Disney puts out a blu-ray set that's just a restoration of the unaltered OOT. I can't see anyone complaining about it except for those anxiously awaiting yet another revision, and they'll probably end up buying it anyway. Yes, Disney would probably jack up the price, but at least they wouldn't be forcing the OOT fans to pay for something they don't want.
Ideally, each individual movie would get its own multi-disc set and be an archive of all the theatrically released versions. And yes, I do think this 4K scan will be used to make George's final version of the I-VI saga for a 3D theatrical re-release (TPM's already been "finalized").
When we remember that the movies still don't have individual blu-ray releases (just the two trilogy sets), this starts to seem like more of a possibility. I think they know how strong the SE backlash is, though. That's why I doubt they'd bother including anything other than the "most recent" version (from this new 4k scan) because they know what people really want is the restored OOT.
I think the '97 version should be included alongside the OOT. It's got a certain historical value to it, and the SE of ANH is still the highest grossing January domestic release in history if I'm not mistaken.
But people would probably scream bloody murder at having to buy not one, but two of the revised versions just so they can get the original. That's what makes me think Disney will simply include the original version and the "most recent" version and call it a day.
If they really wanted to justify the '97 version's inclusion in an ultimate blu-ray set they could just go fucking nuts with any additional changes they want to make for the "final" SE. That way there would be less redundancies and future viewers could chart the evolution of these films throughout their three theatrically released versions (77-83, '97 and 2015).
I'd be fine with the 2004 and 2011 versions being "forgotten" in future bd sets, especially since the latter already had an official blu-ray release and the former is nicely preserved from the hd broadcasts. The most recent work done by teamblu to preserve the '97 version is exemplary, but it could still use some love from the official source.
The concern would still be the possibility of them missing/overlooking something and we end up with a '97 change in what's supposed to be the original version.
That's why I would almost prefer they do this exactly like Blade Runner. Use this new 4k scan only for the new, "final" version and use a '97 IP for the '97 version and the best surviving elements for the OOT.
The 2004 and 2011 versions will probably not be included in future releases, and I'm fine with that. They'd be highly redundant anyway, as this new 4k version will probably redo most of the changes.
Ideally, we'll get preservations of both the '97 version (all they'd need to do is color-correct it) and the OOT as well from this new scan. One big question is whether it makes sense to use secondary sources for the vfx shots (those had faded beyond repair by the mid-90's) and splice those into the o-neg scans or if they should just use secondary sources for the entire thing so the difference won't be as jarring.
I honestly think Disney will go the Blade Runner route with this. A 3D conversion from this new 4k master, in theaters Fall of 2015 (my guess) with the movies released at three-week intervals ala '97, then a bd set with the restored OOT (probably from secondary film sources like IP's and seps) and hopefully the '97 version as well (not holding my breath, though) on the store shelves November/December of 2015 to coincide with Ep7.
Even if this Atlanta screening ends up being one of the old prints/dcp's, this news about RMW is still significant. It means that for the first time in an entire decade we have confirmation that there's been a new scan of the o-neg of Star Wars, even if it is just the Special Edition 4.0.
Or Alexa Davalos ;)
You would think George would want to put out a final version of the OT now (in the next year and a half) before the official continuation happens with Ep7. He can't keep changing it forever. Now is as good a time as any to have the final word on it.
To me, it would be pretty weird to use a dcp of the 04/11 version for this big event in Atlanta, at least for the ticket prices they listed on the website. If it says it's a digital print, that means it's a dcp and not a '97 print.
What did they use for that anniversary screening of Empire with Ford in attendance? Was it a '97 print or a dcp of the '04 version?
The only thing making me think this Atlanta screening might not be a brand new transfer is, well, why would this be the first time anyone sees it? If it were a wide release then sure, it would make perfect sense. But a special screening in Atlanta?
Stranger things have happened, I suppose.
It has always been possible for them to kill three birds with one stone. By that I mean a new scan of the o-neg that would yield the following:
-The '97 SE in its entirety
-The basis for a "final cut" equivalent, and
-The basis for an OOT restoration, assuming the altered pieces of negative were in fact put into storage and can still be scanned in.
I suspect we're only actually getting the middle one (a "final cut" and basis for a 3D conversion). It's interesting how that guy's resumé mentions this project in the same breath as Titanic, since that was also the basis for a 3D version.
DominicCobb said:
Whatever it is, it looks good. My guess is it was supposed to be for 3D usage.
But wait, didn't TPM 3D just use the 2011 version?
Maybe this was a 4K restoration that was scaled down for the Blu-ray release (and then shat on a bit).
If you're referring to the existing blu-ray, no, that wouldn't be the situation here. That release used the 2004 Lowry masters, with a few additional tweaks.
TPM, meanwhile, was two birds with one stone. They went back to ILM's film-out tapes, which were still readable after more than a decade, and reconstructed the movie digitally. This gave them not only a digital master that was even closer to the true original negatives (and ideal for the blu-ray transfer), but also an excellent starting point for the 3D conversion.
