Fang Zei

That's why I'm wondering if they were even cleaned up at all and not just the masters used for the '04 bonus disc.

He has to mean restored trailers. We would've definitely heard something within seconds if was an announcement of a restored original trilogy.

Harmy said:

All those 4K remasters I mentioned are also the same old versions already released on BD before. When Blade Runner was released, nobody cared about 4K, heck, most normal buyers wouldn't even have known what 4K was, now, even the average Joe knows what 4K is, as they are creating a big hype around it.

I only brought up Blade Runner to highlight yet another hypothetical comparison, where the final version gets a 4K DI from the o-neg while the older versions get a 2k transfer from an IP but still look great in HD.

Even if they marketed it as "mastered in 4k" it would still be just another SE and, more importantly, still a regular blu-ray.

Remember, Blade Runner's final cut was mastered in 4k and you didn't see that anywhere on the packaging.

The only thing I could see this new transfer selling on home video would be a 3D blu but again, who cares? There's an extremely small market for that.

No, they need to restore the OOT if they want a selling point for another blu-ray release.

Another thing to consider is that the movies have yet to be released individually on blu-ray.

hairy_hen said:

Given that anything they put out will make lots of money simply by having the name 'Star Wars' on it, regardless of whether or not it's any good, the likelihood of them bothering becomes vanishingly small.

But what do they have left to sell? Another SE? Everyone who was ever gonna buy any version of the SE has that already. The unaltereds' absence from the 2011 blu-ray did not go unnoticed or uncriticized, not by the media and not by the fans. The SE is probably the most notorious and well-known alternate version of a movie, ever. To a pretty big chunk of the audience, the ones above a certain age anyway, there's the true OOT and then there's the SE.

The o-neg, in its current conformation, is still 85 to 90 percent of the OOT. With today's digital technology it would be relatively straightforward to use a new scan as a starting point and then just scan in the missing pieces and put it all together.

Minority Report was scanned in at 6k and finished at 4k for its 2009 remaster. Since it was shot in 2001 (for a 2002 release) in Super 35, it probably had that much "resolution" on the neg to work with.

They did the same thing for Raiders in 2012.

Since we know that this RMW job was done at 4k, it could very likely be from a 6k "oversampling" scan of the o-neg as well.

gizzy2000 said:

Fang Zei said:

Right, but also I was thinking about how '97 was the last time we got any kind of re-release coinciding with an anniversary. They don't seem to care about that kind of thing anymore when it comes to re-releases of the actual movies.

 That's true, there was no 30th anniversary thing either. Plus, I bet the only reason we got 20th anniversary stuff was because GL wanted to use it as a gimmick to sell the SE. Hopefully we'll get the OUT before Episode VII, by 2015 we'll be overdo for an SW re-release.  Seriously I can't remember the last time we went more than 4 or 5 years without a release of the OT, it was even more often when leading up to the PT. We got the OT released in '95, then the SE in '97, and then another SE in 2000 with the only difference being that Episode IV, V, and VI were added to the box art.

Yup. The SE was originally gonna happen in '96 and Episode I in '97 for the 20th, but when George realized Episode I was gonna take a lot longer he pushed that back to '99, pushed the SE to '97 and they came up with Shadows of the Empire to have something big in '96.

Now we're getting Episode 7 in ..... 2015.

gizzy2000 said:

Yes Star Trek was very half-assed. And I think you're right about the lead up to Episode VII, and I doubt Disney would muck it up like the GOUT. They'll at least make it look acceptable in HD. I always said that if George ever released the OUT again, it would've been the 40th anniversary/20th anniversary of the SE. I sometimes forget he's not in charge anymore

Right, but also I was thinking about how '97 was the last time we got any kind of re-release coinciding with an anniversary. They don't seem to care about that kind of thing anymore when it comes to re-releases of the actual movies.

gizzy2000 said:

I think Star Wars (77) alone would make at least double what TPM made if it were released in 3D. Phantom Menace is considered a joke even amongst people who don't care about Star Wars, at least amongst everyone I know. I stand by what I thought earlier though; which is that next time the OT is released on Blu ray/DVD (40th anniversary?) it will include the OUT, even if it is just a GOUT type thing (although I doubt it would be anywhere near as much of a half-assed after thought as the GOUT was).

But would they wait until the arbitrary anniversary? It would make way more sense to do this as a lead-up to Episode 7 in 2015.

As for the OUT, I'll be surprised if not shocked if they don't put it out on blu-ray by the end of next year. If they look as good as the archival versions of Blade Runner I'll be happy. Just don't botch them like Paramount did with most of the Trek films. Now that was the blu-ray equivalent of the GOUT.

Jaitea said:

Fang Zei said:

The only thing this Atlanta screening might've been the "first" of is a dcp made from the 2011 version, which in any event is still based off the 2004 Lowry master.

I agree that the RMW job was probably in preparation for the 3D conversion of the OT, which I would bet Disney is still gonna do.

It costs about $10 million to convert a two-hour movie to 3D. Each of the OT movies would at least do the same box office as TPM 3D, so I don't see Disney passing up that opportunity.

 Don't forget it was Disney that pulled the plug on the 3D re-releases

.....hopefully they have better plans for the new scans

J

They "pulled the plug" (not how they phrased it) for obvious reasons when they announced Ep7 was happening in 2015. They were gonna put out one movie a year, then it was gonna be AotC and RotS a few weeks apart in September/October 2013, then the Disney deal happened and priorities changed.

All they ever technically said was that the rest of the 3D re-releases were being postponed indefinitely.

I still think they'll at least do a 3D theatrical re-release of the OT at some point between now and Ep7. They'll make serious money off of it anyway and it makes sense from a nostalgia standpoint. Yeah, it'll be the SE again, but from a new scan and with better-looking picture and colors. Like we've discussed in this thread, a lot of people out there don't really care about the different versions of the movies. Hell, the $40 million or so that TPM 3D pulled in shows that people apparently don't even care which installment it is.

But a 3D trailer from a well-done conversion job of a nice new 4k master would blow audiences away, I think. Disney is undoubtedly considering this, at the very least.

The only thing this Atlanta screening might've been the "first" of is a dcp made from the 2011 version, which in any event is still based off the 2004 Lowry master.

I agree that the RMW job was probably in preparation for the 3D conversion of the OT, which I would bet Disney is still gonna do.

It costs about $10 million to convert a two-hour movie to 3D. Each of the OT movies would at least do the same box office as TPM 3D, so I don't see Disney passing up that opportunity.

I just remembered, we first got a glimpse of the cgi Yoda replacement of CPY in the supplemental material for the RotS dvd and it was another six years before we saw that version of TPM officially released.

From what these RMW resumés are saying, this 4k master could've been done years ago.

All I'm saying is that stranger things have indeed happened.

gizzy2000 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Would an OUT blu ray be something they would announce at Comic con?

 I almost forgot about that. Most of the people who would go to comic con would get a real kick out of hearing that the OUT was on it's way. I guess if the OUT is on Disney's agenda then they could announce it then

Well, we already heard rumblings earlier this year of a digital release coming this Fall. So, I wouldn't be surprised if they make an unexpected announcement about that.

At this point I wouldn't rule anything out, especially after reading about all this RMW business.

They're not even doing an Episode VII panel this year, the most obvious reason being they've still got another comic con to go before it hits theaters.

They are doing one for Rebels, though. I'm sure other Star Wars related news will come up.

generalfrevious said:

But then there's the X-men To think about.

Also Fantastic Four. I'm not sure if the more cosmic elements, like Silver Surfer and Galactus, have reverted back to Marvel or not.

moviefreakedmind said:

Also don't forget, the theatrical versions of the 6 Star Trek films were released on blu ray (some of them had never been released except for their director's cut). These movies did not come with the director's cuts, just the original films

Yup. It was the theatrical cut of TMP's first home video release since the vhs/beta/ld days and the first time the theatrical cut of Undiscovered Country (one of my very earliest trips to the movies!) was released on home video at all. That's why I was so supremely dissapointed by how shitty the quality of the transfers were. Glass half-full I guess, since it's still the theatrical cuts in hd, but it was almost like the blu-ray equivalent of the 2006 unaltered Star Wars dvd.

Wrath of Khan looks great, though. It's the only one that got a restoration from the original film elements.

Also, the director's edition of TMP was only rendered at 480p. I was shocked to discover that they'd cheaped out on the cgi, thinking only of a dvd release. Those vfx shots would need to be redone in at least 1080p for a blu-ray release. Even then, they really seemed to have dropped the ball on the blu-ray they did put out. I've seen screenshot comparisons (with footage from various bts making-ofs) showing that they had decent-looking hd transfers of TMP, Search for Spock and Voyage Home before they decided to ruin them with dnr and contrast-boosting. Final Frontier looks similarly botched. With Undiscovered Country they probably only had an old 1080i transfer of the theatrical lying around (there's stair-stepping on the blu-ray transfer), so they probably figured "better safe than sorry" and used that instead of de-specializing the more recently transferred director's cut.

The big difference (aside from everything I just outlined) between this and a hypothetical OOT-only blu-ray is that three out of those six Trek films only ever had one version. In two of the remaining three films, the differences are mainly editorial and don't really affect the footage from the theatrical cuts.

ETA: Yoda-sama beat me to it.

yoda-sama said:

Lucas has said flat-out that Boba Fett died in ROTJ and will never come back.

Oh, you didn't hear?

http://www.slashfilm.com/boba-fett-lives/

yoda-sama said:

Actually, about Jango and Boba, in the PT did we ever really hear Jango talk with his mask on?  In the OOT, Boba only talks with his mask on, and sounds like his voice is modified a bit by the helmet.  If he didn't develop the silly accent (by not visiting the "down under" part of the galaxy?  You tell me), then it wouldn't be hard to explain the differences of Boba's helmet voice to Jango's non-helmet voice.

Exactly! I hadn't even thought of how the helmet would change a person's voice. To me it was just entirely plausible that the OOT version was how Boba's voice naturally sounded, even without the helmet, and that his voice box might've been injured in a fight or something.

Here's a possible description of Gwendoline Christie's character:

http://badassdigest.com/2014/07/22/why-i-believe-gwendoline-christies-star-wars-episode-vii-character-was-gend/

What I'd love to see happen is Fox handing over the distribution rights to Disney in exchange for a mountain of money and the Fox logo and fanfare at the front of 7, 8, 9 and any future "Episodes" (I don't care how the spin-offs open). Also, the proviso that the logos for 1-6 not be replaced.

Think of how much richer this will make whoever's in charge at Fox right now. Do they really want to wait another six years?

darklordoftech said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I don't think canon as far as SE's go is a concern, I don't think anyone is worried about whether or not it is canon that CGI green dinosaurs walk in front of the screen in Star Wars.

What about Boba's voice (affects who plays Boba in spin-offs), galaxy-wide celebrations (effects whether or not the Empire appears in anything set after ROTJ), and Christensen as Anakin's ghost (affects who plays Anakin's ghost in the future)?

moviefreakedmind said:

I honestly don't think ANYONE (fans or not) would care if they just got the OOT and not the SE.

I would like to see the 97 SEs. 

Boba's voice is the only potential issue as far as I can see. The galactic celebration could still be happening off screen in the unaltered version for all we know. As for Anakin's ghost, I highly doubt he'll be written into any future movies. It would also ruin the idea of I-VI as "the tragedy of Darth Vader."

I'd also like to see the '97 SE remastered for blu-ray. It has historical value, it got a wide, record-breaking/setting theatrical release and the prints still play in theaters to this day. I certainly don't prefer it to the OOT, but it was the first time my generation got to see the OT on the big screen and I bet it's still the preferred version for a lot of them. Several of my friends told me how shocked they were (in a bad way) to get to the end of the RotJ dvd and see Hayden Christensen instead of Shaw.

I would think Kathleen Kennedy, being the good friend of George that she is, would want to work with him on creating a final version of the SE, while hopefully also being the voice of reason regarding the changes. Just putting the OOT out there, just by itself, would kinda send the message that the altered versions have been "de-canonized" as it were. I'd absolutely love it if the OOT was given equal 4k treatment, but even if that happens it'll probably be packaged with the SE.

CyberMonkeyBite said:

Hope Disney and Fox (who owns the first one) will get the message that so many fans have been saying over the years, we want the originals and put out new 4k scans on blu-rays and eventually Ultra HD in 10 years or whatever.  They seem to have gotten the message on what was wrong with the prequels, and are trying to make the fans happy with episode 7... hopefully they'll recognize the #1 way to make the older fans happy would be to put out the originals.  I also saw on lowry's reel the Abyss which has never made it past letterbox dvd, I'd be very excited to see a blu-ray of that film as well.

True Lies never made it past letterbox dvd either and Fox said both titles are due out on blu-ray this year since it's The Abyss' 25th anniversary and True Lies' 20th. They've kept absolutely quiet on it but a big announcement is expected at comic con this weekend. That will leave T2 as the only Cameron film without a new transfer (well, aside from Piranha 2). The Skynet Edition used the existing hd transfer and dnr'd it slightly, which looks less than great.

As for Disney and Star Wars, the cynical side of me wonders if Disney won't just keep holding off on releasing the unaltereds. As some guy from Wired magazine said in that Attack of the Show interview about the GOUT, "they're not gonna make the fans happy because the happy fan has everything he or she needs. They will kill the goose that laid the golden egg, they will cook it and they'll sell the bones on ebay."

The real nightmare scenario to me is Disney not even selling the OOT for us to physically own in any way, like on an actual physical blu-ray, but only as a download. I realize nothing lasts forever and that even my precious blu-rays will eventually rot away, but I'm shocked to see these cable companies saying you can "own" a movie when, to my knowledge, you're not even downloading/saving anything.

There's also the situation with Fox to consider. Disney could do one of two things. They could just release whatever they want to release (brand new SE, restored OOT, etc) and just let Fox have their distribution cut, which would be no different from when LfL was still its own company and still got the lion's share of the profits from any Fox-released Star Wars stuff. Or they could sit down with Fox and hammer out some kind of deal (I'd love it if this resulted in the Fox logo at the front of Episodes 7, 8 and 9 but I'm not holding my breath).

Even if they waited until 2020 to re-release anything at all, they'd still have to make a deal over the original '77 film. That's why they might as well just make a deal right now before the blitzkrieg of Episode VII happens.

Then there's this footage in RMW's reel....

What I suspect is in the works is a final 4k master of George's preferred version of the movies. Some of the changes from '04 and '11 are probably being redone, but I wouldn't be surprised if Kathleen Kennedy sat down with George and said "okay, if you had to settle on a final version for all time, are you sure these are the changes you really want to make?" Let's not forget, the scream was added to Luke's fall in Cloud City in '97 and then removed in '04

This really does feel like Blade Runner, with various parties fighting over legal ownership, fans wanting every version to choose from, and the creative force at the center of it all trying to make the movie the way he wants it.