Fang Zei

Papai2013 said:

I doubt any home video version has the original colour timing because that would require an expensive scanning of the 35mm and 70mm film sources. I think it will be the same version for the film.
For the 1.44:1 sequences though, they are from the actual IMAX source, so those scenes should be close to the print.

Regarding the original timing, I think they will release a 10th, 15th or 20th anniversary version when they may re-scan the film elements. Also, it’s ultimately what Nolan wants. if he is happy with the TDK Blu-ray, then there will be no re-scans done.

They will certainly do new scans of at least Begins and TDK at some point in the next couple years when they inevitably put out the trilogy on 4k ultra hd blu-ray. It’s possible that Rises has been ready to go with a 4k variable aspect ratio master since it was released. The blu-ray screenshots for that one are very detailed and it doesn’t look like they simply used the Imax DMR master like they did for TDK.

I remember seeing an infographic that basically laid out the very complicated production pipeline for Rises. Nolan is probably the last big budget filmmaker who still insists on finishing his films photochemically and not as a DI, adding yet another step to the process.

The AFI Silver is going to be showing the OT the first weekend in September as part of a John Williams series. They’re playing what feels like practically every movie he ever scored over the next couple months, some of which I had no idea he was even involved with (they’re doing a Valley of the Dolls double feature tomorrow).

I bring this up because the OT will be on dcp, whereas they were definitely still showing the '97 prints just a couple years ago. Between this and the roadshow news, I’m starting to think Lucasfilm has pulled them from circulation entirely.

I’m curious about this as well. Did they not officially state at one point that they were showing the '97 prints? I wouldn’t put it past someone not nearly as knowledgeable about the various versions to have simply jumped to the conclusion of it being the '97 versions (not 2011) and also thinking “prints” (when it’s actually dcp).

Still, IIRC they said “ultra rare screenings of the '97 35mm prints,” which seemed to spell things out in no uncertain terms.

The official site put up an article shortly before the blu-ray’s were released that gave a rundown of all the additional changes for the six movies.

For ESB, the only one I remember off the top of my head was how they digitally fixed the shot where the wampa’s arm is reaching into frame to claw Luke. On previous releases you could see the guy’s actual arm where the wampa arm ended in the corner of the frame. They digitally added more fur to cover it up for the blu-ray, although I seem to recall noticing in the screenshot a parabola* of black pixels in that corner of the image (someone will know what I’m talking about).

I also seem to recall a fix they made to the conveyor belt scene where Chewie retrieves C-3PO from the ugnaughts, but I’m not remembering what it is now. It could’ve been a simple color-timing change for the furnace fire or they digitally added stuff.

Funny how ESB has gained this reputation as the one with the least changes made to it over the years, including '97. But boy oh boy, do I still hear people on the internet talk about how much they dislike the Vader “bring my shuttle” change.

*parabola might not be what the shape is called. Again, someone who knows the alterations well will know what I’m talking about.

Has it already been ten months?

We’re officially overdue for another stirring of the rumor mill.

There’s no way they would remove the logo and fanfare from an OUT release. They would present the movie as close as possible to how it was (at least to the layman if not nitpickers like us), and the iconic fanfare’s absence would be quite a glaring omission.

It’s the SE I was referring to in my post.

I don’t think the 2020 thing makes a difference in terms of the Fox logo showing up on the original versions of Empire, Jedi and the prequels. Disney will own those movies outright after 2020, yes, but I don’t think that legally prevents them from the fox logo showing up in a restored OOT. Think of all the catalog titles now owned by different studios than the ones who originally produced/released them. I’m thinking of all the MGM movies now owned by Warner Bros because of Ted Turner, the Hitchcock titles originally produced by Paramount but now distributed by Universal, or the DreamWorks movies now owned by Viacom because of the folding that happened roughly a decade ago.

The rights issue with Star Wars is a two-way street anyway as we’ve discussed, since Fox owns all versions of the '77 film in perpetuity.

It honestly makes no difference to me if they remove the fox logo from the SE. It will sync up better with VII, VIII and IX anyway. That said, the way they did it in TFA (the lucasfilm logo with no sound) is the way it should be in such a scenario, not the cobbled-together music que they came up with for the digital release of the five non-ANH movies.

From Bill Hunt (of thedigitalbits.com fame in case he needed any introduction), just a couple hours ago:

“File this in the category of rumor, but word coming out of Star Wars Celebration in London is that Disney and Lucasfilm may be preparing a new Star Wars Blu-ray box set, planned for release in time for the holidays, that includes Episodes IV, V, VI, and VII. And VII will include the long-awaited Blu-ray 3D version. We’ll post any official details as they arrive.”

Could be something, could be same old same old. Who knows.

Just thought I’d share.

Laserschwert said:

So, what was shown at Celebration Europe?

I’m curious about this as well. There’s no way it wasn’t some version of the SE, but I’d want to know if it was a newer transfer like RMW’s by some chance.

Would they even be set up to play actual DCPs at the convention? Maybe they just threw the 2011 bd into a fancy player connected to a high-end projector.

The screening would’ve just ended a few minutes ago …

ThiefCobbler4ever said:

I’m still confident will be getting the OOT on Blu-ray by next year. Don’t want to sound disrespectful, but with George Lucas out of the picture, it will be easier for Lucasfilm, Disney, and Fox to release the trilogy (maybe the original Saga) unaltered for DVD/Blu-ray properly.

But it certainly feels like they’re trying not to piss off George, even if there’s nothing legally preventing them from doing so. The man is now one of their biggest shareholders after all, so maybe they do have reason to stay within his good graces despite having bought his company fair and square.

I know this is the umpteenth time I’ve brought it up, but the smartest way to handle this is to basically do what Blade Runner did and put together a “final” version of the movie in 4k while also remastering the older versions. Indeed, it shouldn’t just be the OOT, but the original saga … and the '97 version of the OT thrown in as well. Hell, they could even follow the Blade Runner model to a T and branch the '04 and '11 versions onto the '97 disc if they really wanted to (although they would have to agree on a color grade and sound mix for the vast majority of the movie that they otherwise share in common. Honestly I wouldn’t miss the '04 and '11 versions at all if they were absent, and the “final” version will probably replicate most of those changes anyway). That’s the middle disc, and the first and last discs would be the final and unaltered versions, respectively.

Kathleen Kennedy could bring in George to have his final say on what he wants changed (or maybe even changed back, see: Luke’s screaming fall in Cloud City) while bringing in someone like Robert A Harris to supervise a definitive restoration of the unaltered versions. The prequels wouldn’t even need multi-disc releases, just seamless branching for each movie, and hopefully a color-grade for AOTC closer to how it actually looked. Us OOT/OPT fans finally get what we want, George gets to finish his I-VI saga (giving the SE fans reason to buy yet another release), the copyright owners make their money and we all go home winners.

towne32 said:

For the first question: yes, it certainly does as Luke is hanging from the bottom of Cloud City. Possibly other shots.

It was actually a Bespin shot I was thinking of, but not that one. I thought I remembered reading somewhere, possibly from Harmy himself in an earlier edit of the first post, that he had simply stuck with the recomps for certain shots where that was the only thing making it technically different from the original version. In that four-way screenshot comparison graph, I thought I noticed this in the shot of the Falcon flying through the clouds towards camera with the cloud cars on either side.

Does version 2.0 still use the '97 recomps for certain shots? If so, will 2.5 rectify this?

I’ve never downloaded the Harmy versions, but if I ever were to do so - and the only within-the-rules way of doing so was owning the bd - I’d definitely make sure I acquired it used and not brand new. In my opinion, the more fresh copies of those discs that get sold, the less likely the powers-that-be will see a reason to give us the official OOT release we’ve been going on about for all these years. You shouldn’t have to cast a vote with your wallet in favor of the 2011 versions just to enjoy the original versions ethically.

canofhumdingers said:

Yeah but I’m pretty sure the live action was some other aspect ratio than 2.35:1 (16:9 probably?) hard-matted to the correct ratio. Thus the actual live action footage from AOTC and ROTS aren’t even full 1080p, much less true 2k

Well yeah, but Lucas’ entire goal with shooting it digitally was to remove film from the production process altogether so that he wouldn’t have the extra (and costly) step of scanning in practically every shot of the movie like he did on TPM.

The camera footage was only 1920 by 817, yes, but since so much of what you’re seeing in the finished movie is mostly or entirely cgi (presumably rendered at full 2k), I think we should “ignore” the resolution of the live-action source.

Avatar used 2/3" 1080p Sony cameras much like the ones used on RotS, and some of the 100% cgi shots were rendered at 3k just so they would really shine in the 70mm Imax version.

Clones and Sith will always look jarringly out of place with the other “main saga” films to me, although I have to admit they actually looked okay when intercut with the others during the AFI John Williams tribute the other week. Maybe it was the editing.

MalàStrana said:

Fang Zei said:
The new films are trying very consciously to recapture that OT feel. A release of the OOT by the time Ep9 hits theaters would only make sense.

Really ? Last time i’ve checked there was a CGI Falcon and a CGI main character in TFA. I’m not really convinced by the “OT feel” that would prove Disney’s gonna release the OOT. Mainstream audience watch the bluray and don’t complain about these versions.

What will they come up with to sell the 4k UHD release?

Well, the answer is in the question: the 4k UHD release will contain… 4k picture quality and awesome sound. This is enough to sell it.

Now the fact is that the original prints are still somewhere in Lucasfilm’s vault. Otherwise they can’t make a 4k release (ie a 8k restoration). Or else they can use the 1997 SE prints (it was released in theaters, I guess the definition of the print is higher than 2k, right ?), and then they would need to “refresh” every CGI special effect (Paramount did it with ST-TNG, Disney has the money to do so). But at this point, they will also need to change the colors to match Lucas canon version, so… hum… not sure the OOT would be given as a “bonus”, but at least there is a slight chance that the 1997 version ends up being in an anniversary boxset… which would still be a gift for DE edition since they are way closer to the original versions than the 2004/2011 releases are…

As a matter of fact, Disney once released a very shitty version of “Beauty and the beast” as well as an extended version of “Lion King”. But the original (and far better) versions have been released in bluray; the extended cut of “Lion King” is even nowhere to be seen in bluray I think (but a few minor alterations are still present if I remember correctly). Disney is not exactly “snow white” for its own video releases (“Song of the South” anyone ? Bad movie but I love the animated parts, still they don’t want to release it… like Lazy Lucas does not want to release the OOT in a proper way…), so I woulnd’t exactly count on their alleged “cinephilia” or “OT respect” to actually deliver the original cuts…

Difficult to see, the future is…

I beg to differ.

Maybe I’m underestimating how much demand there would be for a 4k disc release of the altered version, but I seriously doubt there would be anywhere near as much enthusiasm this time around as there was with the blu-rays, nevermind the dvds.

If they have to do a fresh scan of the film elements in order to produce a 4k version (and they do), then they might as well spend the time and money restoring the original versions - and maybe also the '97 versions - as well.

A 4k uhd release of Force Awakens is an inevitability. Maybe we’ll see that one on the format first like we did with TPM on dvd. Hell, I could see things mirroring the dvd releases to a T and them putting out the original three (complete with the other versions) on 4k before Ep9 hits theaters.

Disney - or at the very least Lucasfilm - can’t pretend they don’t know what we want. The People vs George Lucas documentary couldn’t have spelled it out any clearer: Close Encounters did it, Blade Runner did it. Why the hell can’t Star Wars?

To humor the OP, I think it’s just too big of a deal for it not to finally happen at some point within the next few years. There are just too many factors pointing to another release on the horizon (insert Egon photo here).

Even the SE is in lousy condition and needs a fresh remaster, whether that ends up being the RMW job or something else.

The new films are trying very consciously to recapture that OT feel. A release of the OOT by the time Ep9 hits theaters would only make sense.

Next year is the 40th anniversary. Even if it’s not happening by then, they can’t expect to let it pass without saying something on the issue.

Fox’s countdown clock to 2020, when they completely lose the rights to five of the six films, is steadily ticking away. I don’t know about the rumour that people at Fox don’t feel comfortable being involved in an OOT release while Lucas is still alive. That just seems stupid even if it is true. Even if Disney sits on it until after 2020, they still have the problem of Fox owning ANH forever.

But here’s the big thing to consider:

Lucasfilm has milked the releases on these various formats to death without ever including the actual films people wanted in the first place. Well, they released it in 2006, in the shoddiest possible quality that you could still technically call dvd.

The '04 release had a documentary and that was about it. Then the bd had deleted scenes. What will they come up with to sell the 4k UHD release? I really don’t think there’s anything left at this point besides including properly remastered transfers of the original versions.

Am I remembering correctly, or was the U.S. release of RotJ SE pushed back a week at the last second?

I want to say the trailers all said March 7th but by the time of the tv spots it was March 14th.

Density said:

moviefreakedmind said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Unless they’re planning a wider, home media release of the '97 (which I doubt)

This will never happen. I’d bet my entire savings that it will never happen, ever. Even if it does, I’m not out anything because I’d probably die of shock.

They certainly won’t do a standalone release of the 97, but I don’t think it’s out of the question at all that it’s included as part of a Blade Runner-esque box of all cuts of the OT.

That’s certainly been my preferred scenario for a while now. I know most people would be overjoyed enough to finally have a properly restored OOT, but the ‘97 version provides the proper historical context for Lucas’ revising of the films in the first place and would be conspicuously absent in a “definitive” collection.

They still show the '97 prints at the AFI Silver from time to time, although I don’t pay super close attention to the schedule. A couple years back they were showing ANH as part of an Alec Guinness series and RotJ as part of a collection of 80’s movies they would change up every summer (they finally moved on to the 90’s this year, maybe they’ll show a print of TPM at some point😆).

Handman said:

I read the title of this topic and thought I was transported back to 1960.

I’m glad I wasn’t the only person to notice this.

The 2011 blu-rays were first announced more than a year beforehand at the 2010 Celebration, and next year is the 40th anniversary after all.

Stranger things have happened.

Wazzles said:

darklordoftech said:

GOUT is literally what we would have gotten if DVDs existed in 1995, so in terms of offical releases, I’d go with that.

It’s what we would have gotten in like 1998 had it been released, save for the Lego Star Wars demo.

It’s what we would’ve gotten had Lucas refused to spend even a single dime remastering the OOT, just as he refused in 2006.

There are/were plenty of official dvd releases from those first couple years that were not remastered from their laserdisc source and hence stuck at 4:3 letterbox.

Off the top of my head: Conan the Destroyer (since remastered in a hd and available on blu), True Lies and The Abyss (still stuck at that very same quality on home video, if you could believe it), Goodfellas (remastered in hd in 2004 and again recently in 4K), The Doors (remastered the very same week the GOUT hit shelves, ironically enough), Dune (remastered), Star Trek 5-7 (remastered).

The first dvd release of Titanic is a rather unique example of a new release non-catalogue title that, for whatever reason, wasn’t encoded for 16:9 displays. Maybe Paramount just hadn’t gotten the memo that anamorphic video was something this new dvd format could do. It didn’t stop it from being the first dvd to sell a million copies. Barely anyone had a 16:9 tv back in 1998. Heck, a lot of people still didn’t in 2006.

Thanks for all the info/advice, Neverar! I think we’ll be in Dingle for at least a day, so that sounds like an excellent idea. Our trip is basically Dublin, Cork, Kenmare, Dingle, Tralee (briefly), Galway and then back to Dublin.

On Friday I’m leaving for a ten-day trip to Ireland with my Mom, Sister and Aunt. We’re going to be staying near several of the filming locations for Episode VIII, although I was quite disappointed to discover that the boat trips over to Skellig Michael are all booked up until the end of August (and this was a month ago). I guess that’s what happens when the highest grossing movie of all time that just came out six months ago and is also a Star Wars movie ends with a scene shot there. Oh well, visiting the Episode VIII locations a whole year-and-a-half before it hits theaters will feel less tourist-ey.

Dingle, where they recreated Skellig Michael, is on our itinerary, as is Cork where they wrapped in Ireland. I’m gonna try to save all of the spy photos of the set constructions on my phone so I can find the exact spots.

The one place I probably won’t get to visit is Donegal as it’s all the way up at the northern most point of the island and nowhere near where we’ll be staying.

moviefreakedmind said:

Lasz said:

one can hope but the fact that it says “a new hope” and not “Star Wars” may give some indication…

It will never be advertised as simply “Star Wars” ever again, regardless of which version. Even if they use the original poster art they’ll still mention that it’s ANH.

On a somewhat related note, I wonder how a hypothetical official release would “avoid the awkwardness.”

The GOUT did it by releasing the movies individually on dvd for the first time and then going “oh, and they just happen to also include the unaltered versions.”

We’re already past that point on blu-ray (the steelbooks), so I’m thinking Lucasfilm/Disney/Fox will simply wait until it’s time to release I-VI on 4k ultra hd blu-ray (I’m sure they’d put out regular blu-ray versions as well). Then they can call them “ultimate editions” or something to that effect, and be all like “oh, and they just happen to also include the unaltered versions,” even though they know damn well it’s the only reason most people would buy it. Maybe if we’re lucky we can get the theatrical prequels and the '97 versions thrown in as well.