Fang Zei

Handman said:

The old Blu-ray was very blue, they corrected it somewhat. Plus, it was the safest option for the 50th, seeing as how it’s the most beloved film of the series.

The old blu-ray also shows some of the same contrast-boosting issues as the other five. I remember seeing a screenshot comparison of the shot where the Reliant and Enterprise first approach each other and the 2016 re-restoration is much more natural looking. The first six were released all at once back in '09, which probably means the same person/people were responsible for the final tweaks on all of them before the discs were pressed. There’s even a bit of dnr on that first WoK bd, it’s just nowhere near as bad as on the others thanks to the restoration.

Meyer mentioned overseeing (or at least signing off on) an hdr pass of the new 4k master. Maybe Paramount will finally do fresh scans of the other five once the wheels get moving on Khan’s UHD release. Who knows when that will be, though. With Meyer’s involvement with Discovery I was thinking it might be around the time it premieres (whenever that finally ends up being). Or maybe they’ll wait until the next movie, but that project’s status seems very up in the air after Beyond’s middling box office performance.

Handman said:

Wazzles said:

Fang Zei said:
Do we know what res the cg in TFA and RO was rendered at?

According to the IMDB pages, the DIs are in 4K. That doesn’t really tell us anything about the CG though.

moviefreakedmind said:

CGI is almost always rendered at 2k and upscaled to 4k.

Yet we heard TFA had more vfx shots than TPM. Unless they were done at 4k, what was the point of a 4k DI?

IMDB’s user-generated info can be wrong sometimes.

Indeed, people need to stop fretting about “the cgi is only 2k.”

With few exceptions, that’s still how it’s done today even when the movie is finished as a 4k DI. It’s simply more money than the studios are willing to spend to render it in 4k, especially when it’s a very vfx-heavy movie.

Going forward, 4k rendering will probably become more the norm as technology improves and costs come down.

Do we know what res the cg in TFA and RO was rendered at?

SwissArmyTin said:

Fang Zei said:

Search for Spock and Final Frontier both looked passably decent, if just barely. But there was still an unwanted amount of dnr and contrast-boosting going on.

There’s a 35mm scan of III floating around, and while it’s in dire need of a little cleanup and color correction, it’s miles better than the official bluray. For one, it’s much darker, which really helps set the mood better than that over-lit eyesore of a bluray. Heck, even the Genesis surface was much more convincing in places. The scan also included the laserdisc audio mix, which is crisper and more lively than the dull and flat mix used for the bluray.

Bwahhhh??? First I’m hearing of this. I wish someone would also scan a print of Voyage Home, it was beautiful!

I do recall reading of sound effects heard on the SFS laserdisc that are absent from the dvd and blu-ray mixes.

doubleofive said:

Fang Zei said:

doubleofive said:

I wish the movie itself was in that expanded ratio. I wonder if they cropped it to 2.39:1.

Anyway, I think it ultimately comes down to the fact that 2.4:1 is a standard AR while 2.61:1 isn’t. Probably also to match with the other Star Wars movies.

But why bother to use the lenses used on Ben-Hur if you’re just going to crop it in the end? What was gained?

You’re still capturing a wider image than the sensor would have with a spherical lens while still using almost the entire available sensor area (1.9 of the available 2.1). This way you’re getting 2.4:1 instead of 2.1:1. Come to think of it, 2.1:1 also isn’t a standard AR. If they’d gone spherical it would’ve been cropped at the top and bottom to 2.35:1 like The Revenant, but I’m guessing Edwards still wanted a certain look for this first standalone movie of the franchise.

We kept hearing about how this was going to be a war movie, and the Ultra Panavisions call to mind films like Khartoum and Battle of the Bulge.

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Do you have any reason to suggest they might for Solo? Or are you just throwing that out there?

Just throwing it out there.

I noticed the clapperboard from that “first day of production” photo had 6k written in as the camera resolution. This probably means they’re using Red Dragon and framing it at 2.35:1 just like many movies have over the last several years (Gone Girl was the first movie to be shot this way, I think). This would still be notable as the first time a Star Wars movie was shot Super 35 style, aka spherical lenses with a roughly 35mm width frame (the red dragon’s is slightly wider) but framed at 2.35:1.

What John Landis’ story says to me is that George doesn’t mind the idea of the original versions being out there.

It’s not his money being spent anymore and that was pretty much the only reason we got the GOUT instead of an hd remaster like they did for the '04 set.

Now he has no reason to care.

As for the 2020 thing, well, it’s not like they’re going to stop re-releasing these movies on home media. They eventually got around to the digital platforms in 2015, throwing in some exclusive bonus features as an incentive.

I honestly don’t see them releasing these movies at all on 4k UHD until enough people have adopted the tech. It’s what they did for dvd and bd and digital. Although one unknown factor in all of this is whether or not Disney wants TFA and RO on UHD without the fans who’ve upgraded being able to experience I-VI that way as well. I’m reminded of how fans were stuck watching the OT on vhs as TPM and then AotC were released on dvd, and then still for a couple years after until 2004 less than a year before RotS came out.

Maybe they’ll pull something similar and wait until 2018 or early 2019 to release the OT on UHD as part of the marketing push for Episode IX, although I suspect Fox wouldn’t want any featurettes referencing the Disney movies.

So who knows when it comes to the OT on 4k.

The OOT on blu-ray is a different story, though. I could see them releasing that in the meantime.

doubleofive said:

I wish the movie itself was in that expanded ratio. I wonder if they cropped it to 2.39:1.

I did the math and the Alexa 65’s native AR is 2.1:1. The sensor is just slightly larger and also shaped slightly different from an actual 65mm film frame, which is 2.2:1. So with the Ultra Panavision lenses you get 2.61:1 instead of 2.76:1 like you would with 65mm film.

So, cropping from 2.61 to 2.40 isn’t losing much of the picture, which is probably why they framed it that way. Although, it’s funny to think that La La Land was framed at 2.55:1 theatrically and 2.61:1 for Rogue One would’ve only been a hair wider.

It’s also worth noting that if you crop the sensor to 1.9:1, the default cinema AR, you actually get 2.4:1 with the Ultra Panavision’s 1.25x squeeze. We’re already seeing that same area of the sensor used with spherical lenses to shoot in “digital Imax” such as with the airport scene in Captain America: Civil War and the entirety of Avengers 3 and 4.

Anyway, I think it ultimately comes down to the fact that 2.4:1 is a standard AR while 2.61:1 isn’t. Probably also to match with the other Star Wars movies.

I’m curious how Han Solo is going to look. It would be fun if they surprised us with the first 1.85:1 Star Wars movie.

adywan said:

Did anyone else notice just how much smaller the Lucasfilm logo and “a long time ago…” text was at the beginning of Rogue One compared to the saga films?

I seem to recall someone mentioning noticing this back in December.

The movie was shot on a 65mm-sized digital camera, and - just to make it even bigger - with the same vintage 1.25x anamorphic lenses used on Hateful Eight.

Maybe Edwards knowingly shrunk the logo and title card intentionally in order to help convey and set up the “bigness” of the cinematography.

adywan said:

Fang Zei said:

This “surprise announcement” (very vague) will either be the unaltered versions hitting blu-ray at long last or have nothing at all to do with a re-release of the movies.

But, as i have said before, there has been nothing even mentioned about a “surprise announcement” happening at Celebration. It’s just something that has been twisted from the official announcement of the panel.

The only two official things said about the 40th panel that mentions anything about “surprises” :

Official Star Wars site:
…this marquee Celebration event will undoubtedly include many not-to-be-missed surprises.

Andi Gutierrez on the Star Wars Show:
Celebration is the place for surprises, make sure you attend this event. That’s all we are going to say.

NOTHING about any announcement being one of the “surprises”.

Then forget the “announcement” part. Maybe that was just me making a freudian slip. But my original point still stands. If whatever the “surprises” are have nothing to do with the OOT, they won’t have anything to do with the SE either.

One of the conventions - it was either 2010 or 2011 - had a panel about the then yet to be released blu-ray where they showed off the deleted scene from RotJ of Luke building his lightsaber. It got a fairly big reaction from the crowd if I remember the camera phone footage correctly.

I could see them closing the panel with a sizzle-reel trailer on a 4k projector prominently featuring shots/moments from the unaltered version that were the most notoriously changed for the SE (Han shooting first, Mos Eisley, Battle of Yavin, Lapti Nek, etc), complete with the “original” color-timing, or at least as close as anyone can tell. Hell, even if they said it’s a work in progress and it’s not hitting until next year, seeing restored footage from high quality elements could still be a big crowd-pleaser.

nickyd47 said:

Fang Zei said:

A new release of the SE wouldn’t be anywhere near as big of a deal as a restored OOT.

This “surprise announcement” (very vague) will either be the unaltered versions hitting blu-ray at long last or have nothing at all to do with a re-release of the movies.

I’m at a loss to think of what else it could possibly be if it’s not the OOT, but it’s definitely not the SE. Such an announcement would be met with “oh, that was it? meh.”

Either a home video release of the OOT or a 4K UHD release of the SEs

The SE in 4k would only appeal to the small percentage of people who’ve upgraded their hardware.

Again, this “surprise announcement” - whatever it ends up being - will have nothing to do with the SE.

A new release of the SE wouldn’t be anywhere near as big of a deal as a restored OOT.

This “surprise announcement” (very vague) will either be the unaltered versions hitting blu-ray at long last or have nothing at all to do with a re-release of the movies.

I’m at a loss to think of what else it could possibly be if it’s not the OOT, but it’s definitely not the SE. Such an announcement would be met with “oh, that was it? meh.”

SilverWook said:

Ironic we have the theatrical cut of TMP on Blu Ray, and not the Director’s Edition with all the CGI shots. Paramount’s penny pinching actually helped for once. 😉

I know, right?!

Although those blu-rays are still the hd equivalent of the GOUT for me, with the obvious exception of Wrath of Khan which has been restored not once but twice now while the other five were merely “remastered.” TUC happens to be one of the very first movies I ever saw in a theater. I was quite happy to hear the news that the bd would be the theatrical cuts, which for TUC would be the first release of the theatrical cut on home video ever. Even TMP couldn’t make that claim IIRC, as there was a release of the theatrical cut long before the “special longer version” became the norm on vhs (someone please correct me if I’m wrong).

Then the screencaptures started coming in…

Just as with the GOUT, there was an element of “I knew it was too good to be true.” TMP was the theatrical cut, but had been contrast-boosted and slightly dnr’d. Were they still using the same ancient hd transfer they would’ve done way back in 2001 before finishing the DE cgi at 480p? TUC was also the theatrical, but looked manipulated and processed as well. Unlike with TMP, there were actually clear signs of this being from an ancient 1080i master (stair-stepping and other issues). Maybe that was the tradeoff for it being the theatrical cut. Maybe there was a “barely hd” master sitting on the shelf (but from when???) and they simply dumped it to blu-ray.

Search for Spock and Final Frontier both looked passably decent, if just barely. But there was still an unwanted amount of dnr and contrast-boosting going on.

Then there’s Voyage Home. Ohhhh boy. Someone cranked the dnr knob up to eleven on that one. It looks like somewhat slathered the photoshop “watercolor” filter over every frame in the movie.

I actually caught back to back screenings of Search for Spock and Voyage Home at the AFI Silver back in September. SFS ended up being from a DCP when they had said it was 35mm (I noticed they’ve since stopped specifying what format their screenings are in). It actually didn’t look terrible, even though it was from the same flawed master used for the blu-ray.

But then I saw Voyage Home right after … and it was not only an actual 35mm print, but the european version with the kirk-narrated “previously on” intro! Let me tell you, after seeing the oscar-nominated cinematography in all its glory, there’s no way I’m buying a copy of this or any other pre-Abrams Trek film until it’s shown the proper treatment.

But hey, at least it was still technically given an official release in hd, which is more than the OT can say for itself.

doubleofive said:

Jay said:

SilverWook said:

It’s really up to Jay to create that sort of thing.

I created one years ago. Haven’t touched it.

https://www.facebook.com/otdotcom/

If anyone is particularly adept at social media and is interested in helping manage our Twitter and Facebook accounts, I’d be open to it. (I mean somebody who actually works in this space or has real experience building an audience.)

I mean, we’ve got 80k on the Revisited Page, but that all came naturally; no ads, no promotion. Not sure how we can translate that to OT.

You may have just defeated my entire argument for even bothering with another petition.

BobaJett said:

Colson said:

BobaJett said:

Thanks for the replies yall. Thats what I thought, but I wasnt quite sure. Basically a non-anamporphic disc will display in a 4:3 AR and when you stretch it all out to look right, youre basically enlarging the pixals which in turn degredates the image. To be honest, despite owning the GOUT, I dont think Ive ever watched it on my 16x9 TV. I wish the powers that be would offer scope copies along with the Bluray. That way youd get the full resolution instead of the 1920x860 or whatever it is.

The Blu-rays do have the proper aspect ratio and resolution, despite their myriad other issues.

No, they don’t. At 1.78:1 they do, but a scope blue ray is roughly 1920x856 or so. When you watch that with a projector, you get a slightly less than ideal image compared to an anamorphic scope theatre experience.

Slight correction: you’re mixing up the vertical resolution of 2k with the horizontal of hd. Scope is 2048x856 for 2k cinema and 1920:817 for hdtv.

For 35mm film, traditional 2x anamorphic cinemascope is something like 1880x1550 for 2k.

The Force is strong with the Gen Xers.

IP55 said:

Do you really think this is going to happen? It’s been fucking decades. If they thought it was a viable business opportunity they would have done it years ago. They aren’t gonna release an old version for a load of middle aged folk reminiscing. They’d rather spend cash on churning loads of utter crap out.

We have no idea whether it’s going to happen or not, hence preparing a social media message in case it doesn’t.

There’s no harm in trying.

Hence the “if we hear nothing out of celebration” part.

If they’re not going to announce anything there, when the hell will they?

Even if all they say is “yes, we’re doing a thorough restoration and it will be out next year,” that would at least be something.

I would even settle for them telling us right now in 2017 that it won’t be completed until 2020. Again, that would at least be something.

But if we hear absolutely nothing on the subject for the fifth year in a row? Maybe then we actually will need another petition.

I think you guys are right, btw. The '09 petition only had a few months to build up any sigs before George said “the blu-ray is coming next year and once again it will be (my latest) SE-only.” He’d made up his mind anyway.

With Disney it’s been a different story. I couldn’t help but take the hiring of Kasdan for Ep7 and Johnson for Ep8 as a sign that someone at Lucasfilm was paying attention and actually reading the comment sections spread across the internet. They know what we want.

I’ll say this much, if an OOT restoration is what ends up getting announced at celebration I’m going to be very curious how they managed to keep such a tight lid on it, MSW’s ultravague rumor-mongering aside.

ETA: I like SilverWook’s idea. Maybe we should have that tweet typed up and ready to send (and retweet), in case there’s no announcement?

joefavs said:

At this point I think the main reason I’m hoping this 4K OOT happens is so that I can stop coming here for bootlegs and getting sucked into the whirlpool of combativeness and negativity the General Star Wars Discussion board has become.

So I only just noticed that the link on the main page to the petition has been removed.

That was already seven years ago, and it didn’t get nearly as many signatures as the original one from the dvd days. Now a 4k-on-disc format is actually a thing.

If we don’t hear so much as a peep out of celebration, should we seriously consider a new one?

It could be worded to reflect the advances in home video technology and addressed, politely, to Disney, Fox, and GL (out of respect).

I’m just saying, we don’t need to have negativity just because Disney continues to deny us what’s ours. We can put that energy into something positive if we choose to.

I guess my main question - and I’ll try to word it better this time - is whether Harmy will still be using “recreated” shots (like he did with the dewback outside the cantina) or if he’s going to keep that kind of thing to an absolute minimum.

I understand that the majority (the roughly 80% of the film that remains unaltered) will be sourced from the blu-ray. But what I’m wondering is if the newly available print scans will fill in all the missing pieces or if Harmy will still need to do some recreating like he did with that dewback shot.

Will 3.0 of Star Wars still use “recreations” of the shots that were altered or will Harmy be using the available 35mm print scans?

TV’s Frink said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

joefavs said:

At this point I think the main reason I’m hoping this 4K OOT happens is so that I can stop coming here for bootlegs and getting sucked into the whirlpool of combativeness and negativity the General Star Wars Discussion board has become.

You’re wrong! This sub forum isn’t monolithically bad!

You’re wrong! How could you even say that?!?!

Ah, it’s gonna be a fun four weeks until that celebration panel.

crissrudd4554 said:

A shame the current sets don’t include it though.

Hey, if this rumor about it being remastered in hd turns out to be true they could throw it in as an extra on the inevitable I-IX UHD box set just like how they included the vintage making-ofs from 77-83 on the blu-ray.

The extensive LotR appendices, completed in 2004 with the Extended Edition of Return of the King, were also done in SD. At least they and EoD were 16:9. The Alien Quadrilogy making-ofs from right around that same time (2003/2004) were 4:3 and had to be both cropped and upscaled when they were carried over to the blu-ray in 2010.

Dangerous Days was made in 2007 but only released on a regular dvd across all of the various SKUs of Blade Runner released that year (even for the bd and hddvd). It’s 16:9 and looks like it could have been done at a higher resolution and then downscaled. I’m not sure if this was ever definitively answered, but it’s been ten years and the documentary was never released in hd.

moviefreakedmind said:

Fang Zei said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Fang Zei said:

nickyd47 said:

SilverWook said:

That a documentary made in 2004 wasn’t shot in HD, (if only to future proof it) is weird.

So if anything, we’ll get an upscaled version of it

I feel like we don’t really know.

Did the guy who blabbed about it provide any kind of details?

Just that there were delays with Lucasfilm giving him the prints of the unaltered footage and that he was worried that if they wanted it soon they’d have to upscale things. This was about two years ago though.

Implying that they were actually doing a fresh scan of the unaltered material for the first time in decades? Interesting…

It was not clear what the delays were. He admitted to not knowing so it could have been anything from the scans being a work in progress to them not even doing scans. If the blu-ray forum man is right, then Disney/Lucasfilm has scanned, or is scanning, all of its Star Wars material in 4K.

We can only hope he is right.

Meanwhile, Disney has actually restored Song of the South.

Anything is possible.