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Fang Zei

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Join date
14-Oct-2006
Last activity
30-Oct-2025
Posts
2,797

Post History

Post
#1075422
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Goatboy said:

towne32 said:

Right. We are not giving them directions or writing a contract. We are hoping to raise awareness and increase discussion, and despite low chances of success, hoping that we might get some kind of information. A comment that is less worthless/ambiguous than the recent Kennedy interview.

If, someday, they release a 2k OOT (first of all, I would still be thrilled), it won’t be because, "hah! You ****ers should’ve specified 4K! Gotcha!"
I know people still feel burned about GOUT, but that didn’t happen due to a misunderstanding.

I don’t think Lucasfilm will release the theatrical releases on Blue-ray, at least as long as Kennedy is president. Because of her relationship to George Lucas and him appointing her president, she doesn’t want to touch what she sees as “his movies”.

And if it does ever happen, it wont be until 2020, when Disney gets the distribution rights to Episodes 5 & 6.

Getting Star Wars fans talking about it can’t hurt though.

She wouldn’t be doing anything to his movies, though. She would simply be including the original versions alongside his versions. EDIT: crissrudd beat me to it.

Welcome to the forums, btw!

Post
#1075402
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

crissrudd4554 said:

Then again I’d think if they’re willing to spend money to restore it they’d release it yes??

That’s exactly what I was thinking. “Restore” not only implies “release” but also leaves no room for them to pull something similar to the GOUT.

For example, if we only say “release on blu-ray” they might just keep it to a 2k “restoration” from inferior elements. The OOT deserves the highest quality treatment from the best existing film sources. If there’s already a 4k master of George’s preferred version, we shouldn’t accept anything less for the unaltereds.

Post
#1075360
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

I would word it a little differently:

“Are you ever going to restore the original theatrical version of the original Star Wars trilogy?”

I think “restore” is a better catch-all term.

For starters, the films do need to be restored before any kind of modern release can happen. “Restore” also implies a blu-ray release and the possibility of theatrical exhibition.

But “restore” also conveys the importance of the matter in a single word whereas “release on blu-ray” just makes it sound trivial.

Post
#1075347
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

crissrudd4554 said:

Listing the changes is not necessary. Theyre well aware of the changes and know it’s what drives our desire to see the originals restored. Listing the changes might come off as degrading the SEs which is not the purpose of the message. For once I agree with Alderaan. Mentioning the SEs as less as we can, aside from maybe mentioning that we can respect that they are the canon versions and are how Mr. Lucas intends them to be, is probably a smart option. We just want the originals restored and released regardless of what release method they should choose to do so.

We could even take it a step further and show we’re also not prequel haters by pointing out that those movies aren’t available in their original forms either (at least TPM and AotC aren’t).

Including the words “the original and prequel trilogies” and “all versions” in the relevant parts of the longer letter would be just subtle enough.

Post
#1075283
Topic
Question about the 2006 "GOUT" DVDs
Time

SilverWook said:

Don’t most Blu-ray players have a zoom setting for non anamorphic DVD’s? I know Panasonic does.

But then you’ve got the problem of the alien language subtitles getting cut off. Unless of course the player doing the zooming also automatically repositions the subtitles, which I suppose is possible. I’ve got a panasonic bd player so maybe I’ll test it out on a 4:3 dvd.

Post
#1075231
Topic
Question about the 2006 "GOUT" DVDs
Time

SilverWook said:

drfsupercenter said:

Well crap.

I messaged the seller, he posted a new picture… definitely bootlegs. They have the cheap Chinese-style cases (the real ones had a flippable portion in the middle, the left of the box was still used for the chapter insert), and also notice no MPAA rating on the discs.

This is why I asked!

Time to look some more…

It’s sad and ironic the GOUT is being bootlegged at this point.

I bet there are a lot of people out there who never realized their dvd players had a setting to make everything not look like stretch-o-vision and now have blu-ray players that are set to display everything in 16:9 by default.

Some of those people are in for a rude awakening when they pop in the GOUT and realize there’s no good way to watch in on their modern setup.

Post
#1075224
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Yeah, we don’t need to list the differences.

The SEs are very blatantly not the same films that were released back in 77-83, especially the first one.

I think what baron lando was saying earlier about pointing to the multi-version treatment Blade Runner recieved and telling LFL “do that” (in so many words) should be enough.

ETA: ray afraid posted as I was writing this. Linking to the comparison might be a good idea.

Post
#1075198
Topic
Question about the 2006 "GOUT" DVDs
Time

dahmage said:

Fang Zei said:

drfsupercenter said:

TV’s Frink said:

drfsupercenter said:

I’m looking to add the “limited edition” OT DVDs to my collection.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but…

Why?

Just download one of the many fine restoration projects here.

Because I’m a collector and I like having official releases. I do have the Despecialized Editions, but there’s something to be said about having the actual releases.

Speaking for myself, I wouldn’t have paid money for the GOUT in 2006, nevermind 2017.

You should probably just get your hands on Team Negative 1’s Silver Screen Edition of Star Wars '77 and the grindhouse releases of Empire and Jedi. The picture and sound are based off actual release prints.

um, isn’t the audio from laser disc? (at least it isn’t the print audio).

If it is, I didn’t know that. Could’ve sworn they said in the first post of their thread that they were sourcing the audio from the print itself but that was forever ago.

Which LD mix did they use?

Post
#1075161
Topic
Question about the 2006 "GOUT" DVDs
Time

drfsupercenter said:

TV’s Frink said:

drfsupercenter said:

I’m looking to add the “limited edition” OT DVDs to my collection.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but…

Why?

Just download one of the many fine restoration projects here.

Because I’m a collector and I like having official releases. I do have the Despecialized Editions, but there’s something to be said about having the actual releases.

Speaking for myself, I wouldn’t have paid money for the GOUT in 2006, nevermind 2017.

You should probably just get your hands on Team Negative 1’s Silver Screen Edition of Star Wars '77 and the grindhouse releases of Empire and Jedi. The picture and sound are based off actual release prints.

Post
#1075096
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

baron_lando said:

Some kind of multi-version package is our best bet because it kills many birds with one stone. There is a ton of precedent that we can point to and say “hey these movies can have it and they aren’t as popular, why not SW?” (Blade Runner, Close Encounters, Exorcist etc.), it doesn’t fly in the face of the filmmakers’ wish by excluding their preferred versions, and it allows them to charge more which they love.
I think using BLADE RUNNER in particular as our gold standard is wise because the theatrical version in that set was easily achieved (and would be even easier for Star Wars now, scanning and cleaning scratches and dirt is cheaper and easier than it was in 2007). And everybody in home video knows Blade Runner, knows it has a cult following, but is less of a big deal than Star Wars. It’s a great shorthand to just say “hey do Blade Runner thing.”

All the more reason for them to include the '97 cuts. They could charge even more money for it.

Post
#1074957
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Man, I got so sidetracked bringing up the '97/'04/'11 versions that I forgot all about how I want the theatrical prequels as well!

Oh, and the 120-minute Imax cut of AotC I never got to see, just for curiosity’s sake.

I know it will probably never happen and those versions will most likely be lost to history, but I could just as easily see LFL putting together multi-disc deluxe sets for each individual movie and charging a premium for them.

Post
#1074712
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

lovelikewinter said:

I too only want the OOT. I will never watch the Special Editions again and having to buy them would irritate me. Especially anything beyond an OOT/2011 version two pack.

Truth be told, I’d probably never watch them again either. It’s really more for the sake of having a historical record of the various revisions to the films, and also preserving them for the fans who might prefer one specific version over another. But I’d gladly settle for George’s preferred version from the new 4k master and not having to buy the same transfer that was used for the dvds I watched back in 2004.

Besides, preserving the other versions is what places like this are for anyway.

Post
#1074580
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

crissrudd4554 said:

The insignia change was done in '04. I don’t particularly see them doing a lot of branching options should they do a release. A release with the 2011 version on disc one and the theatrical on disc two would be fine enough for me though the 1997 version would be nice too but I don’t see it. There was only a few changes made in 2011 that honestly I just find it easier to say it’s the same as 2004 so including a branching option of the 2004 and 2011 versions I don’t think is necessary but that’s just me. I just wanna see the original restored regardless of which SE cut it’s put with.

I guess there weren’t too many changes made specifically for 2011 that really stand out. Vader’s “noooooo” is the only thing that really comes to mind, all the other changes were subtle enough that you could mistake them for '04 changes if you didn’t know better (blinking Wicket, Jabba’s door and the dug, etc). On the other hand, if you ditch the '04 version you lose all the permutations of Ben’s krayt dragon call from 77/97 to 04 to 2011.

Post
#1074575
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

JawsTDS said:

Fang Zei said:

Just an idea, but do we think it’s worth telling them exactly what we would want to see included in an ideal release?

Personally, I don’t think so. It’s one thing to ask that LucasFilm/Disney/Fox preserve the OUT. However, it’s another thing to have them release it with all the other cuts. Our main goal is to have the OUT preserved, not to dictate how its released. Stick to one goal.

SilverWook said:

I’m also considering a Terry Gilliam version. Short and to the point.

Dear Disney and Lucasfilm,

Will you ever release the original Star Wars trilogy in their original theatrical versions on Blu Ray? Yes or no? Please don’t leave us hanging. Thanks!

Sincerely,
The staff and members of Originaltrilogy.com

I’m honestly more in favor of this one. It’s short, sweet, and to the bloody point.

True, and as I said in my next post I fully acknowledge that even the inclusion of the 97 version is unlikely and it will probably just be the most recent version on one disc (possibly with some final changes) and the unaltered on a second disc.

Post
#1074572
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Slavicuss said:

pittrek said:

Fang Zei said:

Just an idea, but do we think it’s worth telling them exactly what we would want to see included in an ideal release?

What I’m picturing would mirror the Blade Runner set rather closely, with the final version (plus a few “final” surprises if that rumor about Han shooting first again has any weight) on disc one and the unaltered version on disc three. For ANH, the '81 crawl should be branched in as an option on the unaltered disc.

The middle disc could be the '97 version (timed to how it actually looked in '97) with the '04 and '11 edits branched in. The '04/'11 changes are few and far enough between that I feel like they could be easily branched if the disc is primarily the '97 version. It would provide interesting historical context like the three different versions of the Krayt dragon call, Boba Fett’s voice, different Emperor hologram and cgi Jabba, and Luke’s scream in ESB.

I’d settle for just the '97 version’s inclusion without '04 and '11 but I really do think '97 should be there. It’s the version that started this whole debate in the first place and it was shown in theaters in a major re-release.

Disc 1 - 1977/1981 versions via seamless branching + trailers and TV spots
Disc 2 - 1997 SE + 1997 trailers and TV spots, plus all 1997 TV specials/promos
Disc 3 - 2004/2011 versions via seamless branching
Disc 4 - deleted and alternate scenes, Making of, Holiday special, maybe a new docu?

Disc 5 - The ‘lost cut’ work print, to truly mirror the BLADE RUNNER set.

Except in the example of Blade Runner the workprint actually was the first version shown to the public. Granted, it was only for test audiences before the wide release, but even then it’s more relevant to Blade Runner since its accidental discovery years later is what led to the director’s cut.

Fox didn’t meddle with Star Wars the way Perenchio and Yorkin did with Blade Runner. George hated the “lost cut” and fired his original editor. His only “enemy” was the technological limitations of the time, although he can’t really use that as an excuse for stuff like Greedo shooting first.

Post
#1074561
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Ronster said:

I think disc 2 should be 1997 / 2004 / 2011.

Who is honestly going to miss the way 2004 and 2011 looks?

This is exactly what I was going to say in my post.

The 04/11 color timing doesn’t need to be preserved. We already know they did a fresh 4k scan of the o-neg, with is conformed to the '97 version already. They might as well include it. But the 97/04/11 preference thread got me thinking that some people might end up preferring '04 or '11 over all other versions, and since there really weren’t too many changes done specifically for 04 and 11 it shouldn’t be too complicated to branch the changes in. However, I say that knowing there are some very subtle differences they might miss. For example, which version did they digitally fix Piett and the other officer’s insignia so it was on the correct side in the flipped shot toward the end of ESB? Because I honestly couldn’t tell you now if that was 97 or 04. That’s why including the 97 version takes priority for me over branching in 04 and 11. I’d rather have them include 97 exactly as it was and lose 04/11 than have them screw something up trying to include the different versions.

Of course, I say all of this knowing full well there is little chance they will even include 97. That story about Han shooting first again may be complete BS,* so the 2011 version might really be the final version. They could have easily ported over those changes when they went back and rescanned the 97-conformed o-neg for this newer 4k master we’ve been hearing about. If we get the unaltereds on blu/UHD, it will probably have the original version and the final versions on separate discs and that’s it. They probably won’t bother branching in the '81 crawl on the unaltered disc for ANH either, and that wouldn’t be a deal breaker. The original version of the crawl from those first four years when Star Wars took the world by storm obviously takes preference over the one that says “Episode IV: A New Hope.”

*Still, I’m really, really curious just what exactly Devin Faraci’s unnamed source inside Lucasfilm saw to lead to such a rumor. It really wouldn’t surprise me if it turned out to be true. I’d say it’s still considered the most egregious change that’s been made to these movies. Even George seems to realize this if his wearing the “Han Shot First” shirt on the set of Crystal Skull means anything at all. Also, wasn’t that shot further tweaked in both 04 and 11? Maybe he finally gave up on it. I can’t see him reversing many other changes, not that he hasn’t done it before (Luke’s scream in ESB). But I could see him fixing some vfx mistakes that still linger in the 2011 version. Some pretty blatant errors still persist in the Endor space battle, and you can see through the Falcon as it pulls away from the Rebel cruiser at the end of ESB.

Post
#1074502
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Just an idea, but do we think it’s worth telling them exactly what we would want to see included in an ideal release?

What I’m picturing would mirror the Blade Runner set rather closely, with the final version (plus a few “final” surprises if that rumor about Han shooting first again has any weight) on disc one and the unaltered version on disc three. For ANH, the '81 crawl should be branched in as an option on the unaltered disc.

The middle disc could be the '97 version (timed to how it actually looked in '97) with the '04 and '11 edits branched in. The '04/'11 changes are few and far enough between that I feel like they could be easily branched if the disc is primarily the '97 version. It would provide interesting historical context like the three different versions of the Krayt dragon call, Boba Fett’s voice, different Emperor hologram and cgi Jabba, and Luke’s scream in ESB.

I’d settle for just the '97 version’s inclusion without '04 and '11 but I really do think '97 should be there. It’s the version that started this whole debate in the first place and it was shown in theaters in a major re-release.

Post
#1074481
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

crissrudd4554 said:

JawsTDS said:

crissrudd4554 said:

It’s been pointed out on numerous occasions that it appears that the general public does not care one way or another about the changes. This may be true but I honestly don’t understand how this affects the chances of a future OUT release.

If they don’t care about the changes, then what’s the point of even reverting them? That costs money.

An OUT restoration is gonna sell better than a mere restored version of the same print of the SEs. It’s already a general consensus that people are fine with the BDs as is. If Disney/Lucasfilm intends to keep the market open to those films they’re gonna have to do more than simply restore the same SE.

This is why I’m convinced we’ll see an official OOT restoration when the time comes for a UHD release at the absolute latest. Not as many fans will pay for the SE yet again just so they can watch it at a higher resolution and with HDR. Lucasfilm will need to incentivize it a little, and what better time to do an all-versions set than the 4k release?

They could do an unaltered release on regular blu in the meantime, maybe even package it with a new transfer of the SE from the RMW 4k master instead of recycling the 2011 discs (which still use the 2004 master) yet again. But I feel like they’re not going to do that because they know many who’d buy it probably wouldn’t buy it again in a few years on 4k. Plus they’d have to share more of the profits with Fox whereas I-VI probably won’t hit 4k until 2020 at the earliest anyway. Better to wait and use the OOT to incentivize a UHD release.

They could still put it out on regular blu the same day, for those people who really don’t plan on ever upgrading beyond regular blu. Kind of like how the Blade Runner set was released on both dvd and the hd formats on the same day in 2007. Ditto for Close Encounters that same year with dvd and blu-ray.

Post
#1074309
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Ronster said:

There could be genuine fear of a screw up that is all I am saying and it’s better to leave alone that is the vibe I get when in reality it would be better to try than to do nothing.

and you also need Mr.Lucus consent also.

It is possible to restore the film to its 100% unaltered form. There’s really no reason we should have to settle for “close enough,” and it would kinda defy the whole point anyway if it’s not the true original version. LFL surely realizes this well enough to not pull that kind of crap. Might that mean forgoing the Original Master Negative since it would risk the accidental inclusion of alterations from 97? Maybe, but there might be a foolproof way of using as much of the master negative as possible without that happening.