Fang Zei

DuracellEnergizer said:

The SW novelization established that the SW Galaxy was a modest-sized galaxy (ie. small-to-average).

One of these days I should actually sit down and read my first-edition paperbacks of the novelizations that have just been lying around collecting dust.

I feel like every several months there’s another crazy thing from them I’m finding out for the first time and being incredulous about.

Anyway, the neighborhood is having a yard sale next Saturday and I’ve been going through my books on the off chance anyone’s going to want them for a dollar each. I’m getting rid of my paperbacks of the six clone wars (little c, little w) novels, originally published from mid '03 to late '04, which I’m never reading again anyway. There’s also my mass market paperback of Heir to the Empire from 1992 that I feel somewhat of an inclination to hold on to for whatever reason, and my mass markets of Dark Force Rising (from years later) which I never finished, and The Last Command which I never even got to.

I’m also slightly conflicted about getting rid of my Vector Prime hardcover, complete with a crease down the jacket spine that I’d see on every used copy, if for no other reason than its historic place in the old EU, what with Chewie’s death and all. Then there’s darktide: onslaught and my paperback of Balance Point, both of which I actually read, and the Jedi Eclipse duology that I got brand new double-discounted but never got around to (it was one of those later paperback copies where they actually print the discount you’re getting right there at the top of the cover, and this was at a b dalton’s going-out-of-business sale so it was even further discounted). I was smart enough to stop there regarding the NJO, never even got dark tide: ruin.

Then there’s odds and ends like my paperback of Tatooine Ghost I never got around to either. Noticing a trend here?

Ah, then there’s the prequel novelizations, all of which I’ve read. Still have my TPM hardback with the Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon cover, and the latter two are in paperback. I’ll probably hold on to the A.C. Crispin Han Solo trilogy since I’ve never read it and it might be interesting to compare the upcoming standalone movie against. Shadows of the Empire paperback, might keep it out of nostalgia but should probably get rid of it.

My 90’s paperback of Splinter with the GL intro will stay, as will the aforementioned first-edition OT novelizations.

Then there’s my collection of Star Wars comics from '03 to '07 (don’t worry, it’s well under a box’s worth) that I might look up to check the value of but will probably hold on to in the vain hope they’ll be worth something someday. I mean, that’s whay you’re supposed to do with comics, right?

Mocata said:

but nobody would care.

Except, yeah, quite a few people would care.

I agree with everything else you said, though.

Mocata said:

Fang Zei said:
Upconverting a laserdisc master of an entire movie trilogy all the way up to 4k just doesn’t sound like something anyone would do.

Yeah which is why they’d probably just shove it on there as a bonus again, and be like ‘hey kids look at how lame this old version was before we fixed it’

Well, that’s exactly what I meant, dumping it on to disc “as is,” an 8Gb 4:3 standard def file (okay 24 gigs for the entire trilogy although they could probably get that file size down using the latest compression technology) taking up only a small fraction of the available space on the latest disc formats.

What I meant by “upscaling” was just letting the player or display do that part. But like I said, since it’s only 1/27 the resolution of an actual 4k transfer, it would be very, very noticeable. People aren’t that gullible. As I said, George got away with dumping a laserdisc master to dvd in 2006 because the average person was still using a 4:3 tv to watch dvd and couldn’t tell the difference between a recycled transfer and a properly remastered one.

It’s like McCallum bragging about how RotS did more location shooting than any other Star Wars film.

Yes, but the actors weren’t actually there for any of it!

Seriously, were there any scenes in that movie not shot on a soundstage?

Mocata said:

Hey it’s a bonus, what do they need to remaster anything for.

If for no other reason than because they likely won’t get around to even thinking about the OOT until the 4k UHD release and the GOUT is like 1/27 the resolution.

George got away with that on dvd because many people were still watching on their 4:3 sets and couldn’t tell the difference from a properly remastered disc, which of course would’ve been done in hd like the '04 master and at least be somewhat future proof.

Upconverting a laserdisc master of an entire movie trilogy all the way up to 4k just doesn’t sound like something anyone would do.

Slavicuss said:

Fang Zei said:

Slavicuss said:

Who knows? Perhaps we may get the 1993 laserdisc master on Blu-ray this time?

Don’t even joke about that.

Considering how said master was only even released as “bonus content” in the first place, they might very well dump it to blu-ray (just like so many other blu-ray releases have ported over 4:3 sd extras from dvd) and treat the OOT as an afterthought. 😉

Sadly, that’s all I think we’re ever likely to get.

They’ll either remaster it properly or they won’t bother including it at all. Simply recycling the '93 master would be seen as an even bigger middle finger to the fans than when George did it, now that Disney is in charge.

Your earlier post got me thinking about all of the movies both well known and obscure that have been released on blu-ray/4k with multiple cuts all preserved in hd at the bare minimum.

Slavicuss said:

Who knows? Perhaps we may get the 1993 laserdisc master on Blu-ray this time?

Don’t even joke about that.

Considering how said master was only even released as “bonus content” in the first place, they might very well dump it to blu-ray (just like so many other blu-ray releases have ported over 4:3 sd extras from dvd) and treat the OOT as an afterthought. 😉

Another thing I was thinking in regards to 2020:

With the Avatar sequels set to at least slightly renew some interest in the 3D format, I wonder if Lucasfilm/Disney/Fox will release a stereo conversion of the OT during that stretch of time.

Apparently the first two sequels will be released during December of 2020 and 2021 (scratch what I said earlier about Star Wars possibly moving back to December for 2020 because that ain’t happening), then the latter two sequels will be released in 2024 and 2025.

I could totally see them planning an OT/Saga 3D release for 2022 and putting together a trailer to put in front of Avatar 3 in December of '21.

joefavs said:

I think you’re probably fine with the blu-rays. When in doubt, the current official release is a good rule of thumb. Especially since it’s looking more and more like they’ll just ride out the 2011 discs until they do a 4K release rather than putting out a remastered SE in the meantime.

This is why all signs point to 2020.

Since the new format only just launched last year, they weren’t going to release a catalogue title as big as Star Wars until several years in anyway. But that will only be an added bonus to the fact that 2020 is when they completely get the rights back to Empire, Jedi, and the prequels.

But the other factor might be whenever they choose to go on hiatus:

“There seems to be a plan for a hiatus on Star Wars movies – a plan that will happen after a few years after the end of the Sequel Trilogy.”

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-bits-a-big-announcement-rogue-one-easter-eggs-and-lucasfilms-future-plans/

Now, the way that’s worded, does it mean “several years after the end of the sequel trilogy” or does it mean “several years from now, which will be after the end of the sequel trilogy”?

They don’t want the grand debut of Star Wars on a new format distracting from the latest new Star Wars movie or the home video release thereof. That’s why I don’t see anything happening over the next couple years other than reissues of the 2011 discs. If 2020 and 2021 still hold new Star Wars movies, I could only see the 4k release happening within that stretch if a long-enough window presents itself. For example, if they move back to December for the 2020 movie it would give them a year and a half between movies and they could put out the 4k OT in the Fall of 2020.

Possessed said:

It’s a shame you can’t watch harmys versions then.

Seeing as you don’t own the blurays and all.

Do you even own the films at all?

Like I said, I’ve still got the '95 vhs box but my cowclops discs are how I prefer to watch the movies. Yeah, it’s terrible quality, but I downloaded those back in March of '06, before the GOUT was even announced. Maybe I wasn’t totally “in the clear” to begin with since I never owned the '93 ld set (or any other ld release for that matter), but refusing to get the GOUT does not retroactively make me a pirate.

Faces was technically the last trilogy set I ever bought and the only one I own now.

If we’re talking about within the general timeframe of when they first streeted, '97 SE widescreen vhs was my first and '04 dvd was my last. Never got the GOUT or the blu-rays.

I had recieved the ANH Faces vhs as a Christmas present in '95. Almost ten years later I tracked down that same release of ESB and RotJ at a Record and Tape Traders at the beach. Then I popped in ESB only to discover it had constant static. In retrospect, it might have been the magnetic clamps in my bag that messed with the tape (I’ve since given that bag away since it was a liability). At some point I actually saw a complete '95 Faces box set at the cd cellar and picked that up.

At some point circa 2010 I sold my dvds of I-VI. When my parents sold their house a couple years later, I gave away the '97 set, threw the single '95 tapes in the recycling bin since at least one of them was botched, and held on to the '95 box set.

I think I mainly wanted the complete set for the Maltin interviews. Haven’t watched them in forever thanks to youtube. My Cowclops v2 ld-to-dvd preservations are still my preferred way of watching the OT.

It might be a little last minute to be nitpicking this, but the wording of the letter is still very OT-centric.

TPM and AotC never even made it to dvd in their theatrical forms, and there’s uncertainty about the RotS blu-ray as well. That comparison might be apples and oranges, and I get that this is originaltrilogy.com, but … well, I just thought it was worth noting.

rpvee said:

I do think it’s very interesting they acknowledge the SE’s were not only sources of debate, but also brought into question “the definition of authorship and the privileges of ownership”. That’s a big statement to be coming from them, isn’t it? Admitting that there are some ethical questions behind the changes?

They’re good words to fill out an article with at the very least.

rodneyfaile said:

joefavs said:

Not well. Between Harmy’s post and the OT.com account’s, we’re only looking at about 115 retweets. we need to get it in the hands of someone with a following. Hello Greedo? Red Letter Media?

What about celebrities who love Star Wars? Patton Oswalt? Kevin Smith? Cant you tweet it at them and they might retweet it? Was it tweeted directly at Kathleen Kennedy, Disney, and Lucasfilm? What about Mark Hamill, Rian Johnson, or Simon Pegg? All it would take is one celebrity retweet right?

Kevin Smith said back in 2011 that he totally understands George looking at his films and saying they’re not finished, so he’s not exactly anti-SE in that regard.

That said, I do remember him howling with laughter on that same episode of Hollywood Babble-On when they played the clip of Vader’s “No … NOOOOOO” that had just been added to the end of RotJ.

TK-949 said:

I posted the written version below this

https://www.facebook.com/StarWars/posts/1524850000899929

but it seems that it was deleted.

I’m telling you, this issue will go ignored and unaddressed by the powers that be until 2020 at the earliest.

Darth Lucas said:

towne32 said:

As I thought, the reddit thread is full of scumbags.

You shouldn’t link the thread directly here, though. AFAIK, that constitutes brigading and can result in deletions/bans.

Facebook comments arent much better. Lots of “get over it”.

I just loved how the very first reply in that reddit thread talks about how Kennedy said she wasn’t going to touch George’s versions when that has nothing at all to do with restoring the original versions.

joefavs said:

I just tweeted it at Rian Johnson. Anyone know of any other high-profile OOT patisans within the organization?

Well, there’s Mark. I only bring him up because of his thoughts on the franchise over the years. He was singing the praises of “real sets” regarding TFA, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard his thoughts on the SE. He’s obviously a good friend of George’s though, so he might not feel comfortable with this even if it’s in Disney’s hands now.

Phil Tippett called the SE “bullshit” just a few years ago and still ended up working on TFA recreating the holochess. Is he on social media?

Also, congrats on getting me to register on reddit just so I could upvote the post althor linked to.

What time of the day were the first public screenings of the movie here in the States?

I say we give ourselves until then to make any final revisions. We could always repost to twitter (I hearted and retweeted but that was before I noticed the apostrophes).

Darth Solo, you have my deepest condolences.

TavorX said:

I’m sort of caught up to speed on “Star Wars” in 4K. I came across Mike Vetra’s vimeo videos where he showed off his cleanup work/commentary. Sadly, I read that Mike would face serious legal action for ever releasing his “Legacy Edition”.

But then there’s Project 4K77, which I assume to be separate from Mike’s work. Even still, it’s such a shame that we may never get to see a cleaned up/restored 35mm scan, at least to the degree and clarity shown in some of the clips from Mike or Project 4K77. This is what comes down to right? If the quality is consistent and crisp, then that’s a threat, but so long as it’s inconsistent, like Harmy’s Despecialized version (note: I’m not knocking on his work at all and really appreciate it), then it gets to fly under the radar.

Am I understanding that correctly? For a brief while, when I read this topic, I kept thinking, “There’s nothing to worry; if Disney won’t give us what we want, the fans will”. Seems like that won’t be the case after all.

This thread was started almost three years ago because it came to light that Reliance Media Works had made a new 4k master of the OT. This past December, Gareth Edwards confirmed having watched it (ANH at least, if not the other two) right after he was hired back in May of 2014, which was right before this thread was started.

Naturally, it’s the SE. We know this because of the info Poita quoted above.

Meanwhile, as you said, there’s Legacy and 4K77. Verta cannot release Legacy, that’s correct. I’m not sure what the situation with 4K77 is, though.

In any event, this thread has basically become the go-to for discussion of any possibility of an official restoration of the original versions as well. However, as has also been noted, the people in charge remain silent on the matter.

pittrek said:

nickyd47 said:

lurker77 said:

GlastoEls said:

lurker77 said:

George can make all the changes he wants. Just label it as a separate director’s cut, not the only version that should exist.

George isn’t the director for 66% of the OOT! ;D

Then call it The George Lucas Edition. Has a nice ring to it.

Here’s how I’d want the films to be addressed
1977 Theatrical Cut
1997 Special Edition
2004 Special Edition
2011 Final Cut

Well there were at least 2 different theatrical cuts in 1977, there was a theatrical cut from 1978 (even though just the audio mix was new), there was a theatrical version in 1981 (Star Wars Episode IV A New Hope)…

This highlights the whole problem from George’s POV. If Star Wars is a multi-film saga, there can’t be any rough drafts.

Off the top of my head:

The revised shot of our heroes zooming towards mos eisley, where they added those scurrier rat things in '97, was further revised in 2004 with a cgi landspeeder.

The infamous Han/Greedo shot was further tweaked in both '04 and 2011 IIRC.

The cgi model of Jabba used for '97 was redone in 2004.

In Empire they did indeed reverse a change from '97 where you hear Luke screaming as he falls. This might be the only Empire change unique to '97 unless there’s other obvious things I’m forgetting.

As for RotJ, in 2004 they added Naboo to the galactic celebration montage and also added the senate building and jedi temple to the Coruscant background.

rodneyfaile said:

When it comes to the general public, I am surprised how many people have no idea there are any changes and that the originals aren’t available,then even more surprised how little they care when I tell them.

While attending Star Wars Celebration and talking to other fans while standing in various lines, I was surprised that none of them cared to even talk about the originals or the possibility of a release.

My Harmy discs become more and more cherished as the years go by.

I can’t believe such an important movie with such a large passionate fan base has ended up like this. It’s like a Twilight Zone episode where I’m the only one who remembers the originals except for a few mysterious people I’ve been communicating with online.

Lucas pretty much succeeded in rewriting history and everyone watched and let him.

I think there’s still a not-insignificant number of people who fall between those two extremes: people who are big fans of the movies themselves but not hardcore convention goers. I’m talking about the kind of people who will leave a comment on an article about an OOT rumor or reply to someone’s facebook post on the subject.

Someone at Lucasfilm sure seemed to be paying attention to all those comments over the years about how Lawrence Kasdan should’ve written the PT when they hired him for TFA, or the frequency of posts the day of the Disney deal screaming “get Rian Johnson to direct Episode VII” when they eventually hired him for VIII. Sure, you could write off all of that as pure coincidence, but I’d like to think someone on the inside is listening.

Mocata said:

rodneyfaile said:

I hope they don’t wait till 2020 to even comment about it.

I doubt they will comment on it then either

IMO there are way too many signs pointing to the next major home video release being in 2020 for it not to happen then (Disney getting the rights to ESB and RotJ, 4k UHD players in enough people’s homes, Episode IX having already been released on video the year before).

But even if they continue to hold off so as not to distract from the standalone movie planned for 2020, they’ve already said they’re planning to go on hiatus from new movies before long. Part of me wouldn’t be surprised if 2020 ends up being the hiatus. It would be a natural enough time to do it, after Episode IX and all. But whenever it happens, I think chances are good the relevant people at Lucasfilm will consider a fancy new home video release if only to justify their jobs.