Fang Zei

Faces was technically the last trilogy set I ever bought and the only one I own now.

If we’re talking about within the general timeframe of when they first streeted, '97 SE widescreen vhs was my first and '04 dvd was my last. Never got the GOUT or the blu-rays.

I had recieved the ANH Faces vhs as a Christmas present in '95. Almost ten years later I tracked down that same release of ESB and RotJ at a Record and Tape Traders at the beach. Then I popped in ESB only to discover it had constant static. In retrospect, it might have been the magnetic clamps in my bag that messed with the tape (I’ve since given that bag away since it was a liability). At some point I actually saw a complete '95 Faces box set at the cd cellar and picked that up.

At some point circa 2010 I sold my dvds of I-VI. When my parents sold their house a couple years later, I gave away the '97 set, threw the single '95 tapes in the recycling bin since at least one of them was botched, and held on to the '95 box set.

I think I mainly wanted the complete set for the Maltin interviews. Haven’t watched them in forever thanks to youtube. My Cowclops v2 ld-to-dvd preservations are still my preferred way of watching the OT.

It might be a little last minute to be nitpicking this, but the wording of the letter is still very OT-centric.

TPM and AotC never even made it to dvd in their theatrical forms, and there’s uncertainty about the RotS blu-ray as well. That comparison might be apples and oranges, and I get that this is originaltrilogy.com, but … well, I just thought it was worth noting.

rpvee said:

I do think it’s very interesting they acknowledge the SE’s were not only sources of debate, but also brought into question “the definition of authorship and the privileges of ownership”. That’s a big statement to be coming from them, isn’t it? Admitting that there are some ethical questions behind the changes?

They’re good words to fill out an article with at the very least.

rodneyfaile said:

joefavs said:

Not well. Between Harmy’s post and the OT.com account’s, we’re only looking at about 115 retweets. we need to get it in the hands of someone with a following. Hello Greedo? Red Letter Media?

What about celebrities who love Star Wars? Patton Oswalt? Kevin Smith? Cant you tweet it at them and they might retweet it? Was it tweeted directly at Kathleen Kennedy, Disney, and Lucasfilm? What about Mark Hamill, Rian Johnson, or Simon Pegg? All it would take is one celebrity retweet right?

Kevin Smith said back in 2011 that he totally understands George looking at his films and saying they’re not finished, so he’s not exactly anti-SE in that regard.

That said, I do remember him howling with laughter on that same episode of Hollywood Babble-On when they played the clip of Vader’s “No … NOOOOOO” that had just been added to the end of RotJ.

TK-949 said:

I posted the written version below this

https://www.facebook.com/StarWars/posts/1524850000899929

but it seems that it was deleted.

I’m telling you, this issue will go ignored and unaddressed by the powers that be until 2020 at the earliest.

Darth Lucas said:

towne32 said:

As I thought, the reddit thread is full of scumbags.

You shouldn’t link the thread directly here, though. AFAIK, that constitutes brigading and can result in deletions/bans.

Facebook comments arent much better. Lots of “get over it”.

I just loved how the very first reply in that reddit thread talks about how Kennedy said she wasn’t going to touch George’s versions when that has nothing at all to do with restoring the original versions.

joefavs said:

I just tweeted it at Rian Johnson. Anyone know of any other high-profile OOT patisans within the organization?

Well, there’s Mark. I only bring him up because of his thoughts on the franchise over the years. He was singing the praises of “real sets” regarding TFA, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard his thoughts on the SE. He’s obviously a good friend of George’s though, so he might not feel comfortable with this even if it’s in Disney’s hands now.

Phil Tippett called the SE “bullshit” just a few years ago and still ended up working on TFA recreating the holochess. Is he on social media?

Also, congrats on getting me to register on reddit just so I could upvote the post althor linked to.

What time of the day were the first public screenings of the movie here in the States?

I say we give ourselves until then to make any final revisions. We could always repost to twitter (I hearted and retweeted but that was before I noticed the apostrophes).

Darth Solo, you have my deepest condolences.

TavorX said:

I’m sort of caught up to speed on “Star Wars” in 4K. I came across Mike Vetra’s vimeo videos where he showed off his cleanup work/commentary. Sadly, I read that Mike would face serious legal action for ever releasing his “Legacy Edition”.

But then there’s Project 4K77, which I assume to be separate from Mike’s work. Even still, it’s such a shame that we may never get to see a cleaned up/restored 35mm scan, at least to the degree and clarity shown in some of the clips from Mike or Project 4K77. This is what comes down to right? If the quality is consistent and crisp, then that’s a threat, but so long as it’s inconsistent, like Harmy’s Despecialized version (note: I’m not knocking on his work at all and really appreciate it), then it gets to fly under the radar.

Am I understanding that correctly? For a brief while, when I read this topic, I kept thinking, “There’s nothing to worry; if Disney won’t give us what we want, the fans will”. Seems like that won’t be the case after all.

This thread was started almost three years ago because it came to light that Reliance Media Works had made a new 4k master of the OT. This past December, Gareth Edwards confirmed having watched it (ANH at least, if not the other two) right after he was hired back in May of 2014, which was right before this thread was started.

Naturally, it’s the SE. We know this because of the info Poita quoted above.

Meanwhile, as you said, there’s Legacy and 4K77. Verta cannot release Legacy, that’s correct. I’m not sure what the situation with 4K77 is, though.

In any event, this thread has basically become the go-to for discussion of any possibility of an official restoration of the original versions as well. However, as has also been noted, the people in charge remain silent on the matter.

pittrek said:

nickyd47 said:

lurker77 said:

GlastoEls said:

lurker77 said:

George can make all the changes he wants. Just label it as a separate director’s cut, not the only version that should exist.

George isn’t the director for 66% of the OOT! ;D

Then call it The George Lucas Edition. Has a nice ring to it.

Here’s how I’d want the films to be addressed
1977 Theatrical Cut
1997 Special Edition
2004 Special Edition
2011 Final Cut

Well there were at least 2 different theatrical cuts in 1977, there was a theatrical cut from 1978 (even though just the audio mix was new), there was a theatrical version in 1981 (Star Wars Episode IV A New Hope)…

This highlights the whole problem from George’s POV. If Star Wars is a multi-film saga, there can’t be any rough drafts.

Off the top of my head:

The revised shot of our heroes zooming towards mos eisley, where they added those scurrier rat things in '97, was further revised in 2004 with a cgi landspeeder.

The infamous Han/Greedo shot was further tweaked in both '04 and 2011 IIRC.

The cgi model of Jabba used for '97 was redone in 2004.

In Empire they did indeed reverse a change from '97 where you hear Luke screaming as he falls. This might be the only Empire change unique to '97 unless there’s other obvious things I’m forgetting.

As for RotJ, in 2004 they added Naboo to the galactic celebration montage and also added the senate building and jedi temple to the Coruscant background.

rodneyfaile said:

When it comes to the general public, I am surprised how many people have no idea there are any changes and that the originals aren’t available,then even more surprised how little they care when I tell them.

While attending Star Wars Celebration and talking to other fans while standing in various lines, I was surprised that none of them cared to even talk about the originals or the possibility of a release.

My Harmy discs become more and more cherished as the years go by.

I can’t believe such an important movie with such a large passionate fan base has ended up like this. It’s like a Twilight Zone episode where I’m the only one who remembers the originals except for a few mysterious people I’ve been communicating with online.

Lucas pretty much succeeded in rewriting history and everyone watched and let him.

I think there’s still a not-insignificant number of people who fall between those two extremes: people who are big fans of the movies themselves but not hardcore convention goers. I’m talking about the kind of people who will leave a comment on an article about an OOT rumor or reply to someone’s facebook post on the subject.

Someone at Lucasfilm sure seemed to be paying attention to all those comments over the years about how Lawrence Kasdan should’ve written the PT when they hired him for TFA, or the frequency of posts the day of the Disney deal screaming “get Rian Johnson to direct Episode VII” when they eventually hired him for VIII. Sure, you could write off all of that as pure coincidence, but I’d like to think someone on the inside is listening.

Mocata said:

rodneyfaile said:

I hope they don’t wait till 2020 to even comment about it.

I doubt they will comment on it then either

IMO there are way too many signs pointing to the next major home video release being in 2020 for it not to happen then (Disney getting the rights to ESB and RotJ, 4k UHD players in enough people’s homes, Episode IX having already been released on video the year before).

But even if they continue to hold off so as not to distract from the standalone movie planned for 2020, they’ve already said they’re planning to go on hiatus from new movies before long. Part of me wouldn’t be surprised if 2020 ends up being the hiatus. It would be a natural enough time to do it, after Episode IX and all. But whenever it happens, I think chances are good the relevant people at Lucasfilm will consider a fancy new home video release if only to justify their jobs.

The more I think about it, the more it becomes obvious that people simply do not care about seeing the OOT restored. Or at least there aren’t enough people who actually care as much about it as we do.

If the next several years came and went and Lucasfilm continued to say nothing on the subject, that many more people will simply say “I give up, it’s never going to happen.” Over a long enough timeline there simply won’t be anyone left who actually gives enough of a damn to complain about it. Sure, maybe someone at Lucasfilm will see the money-making potential of a release that includes the original versions, but man, they really seem to need a lot of convincing for something that’s guaranteed to rake in the cash.

The biggest imperative is preserving the movies, because one way or another the films elements will eventually disintegrate. Maybe we really should forget about dangling that carrot of “we’re waiting for you to take our money on this,” a strategy that’s failed to get their attention, and appeal to them on the grounds of preserving our cultural heritage.

In other words, we need to shame them into restoring the OOT.

Yet their using the word “revised” implies that the OOT was not merely a rough draft of the “finished” version.

This should probably be retitled as the spoilers thread if we’re going to post stuff like spy photos here.

Just sayin’

Writing an article about the 20th anniversary of the SE while also celebrating the 40th anniversary of the original movie is actually a step in the right direction as far as I’m concerned.

It’s the biggest acknowledgement that the films have been changed since … well, since they were changed.

ratpack1961 said:

Haarspalter said:

I wonder if Lucas created the PT primarily to keep LucasFilm alive? Its artistic outcome would not have been important as long as it generates money. Back in the 80s he also saw ESB & ROTJ as mere vehicles to fund his elaborate Skywalker Ranch. Somewhere between ANH & ESB the filmmaker disappeared and the businessman took over. Didn’t he say during infamous “White Slavers” interview with Charlie Rose that he wanted to do the ST himself and that he had to care about his employees? Maybe it was easier to sell LucasFilm than to stem another trilogy himself…

Late reply to this one but this is actually true. Young Indiana Jones in the early 90s was a huge money loss for Lucasfilm. He had to come up with something that was going to generate income. This was partially why he went forward with the prequels.

I think Lucas has a love/hate relationship with Star Wars. With Empire he really did want to farm out the star wars movies to other people and he would build his dream Skywalker Ranch studio. However he had a very hard time letting go of wanting to control Empire and the quality of that film. When he did Jedi he was onset every day I believe as opposed to the hands off approach he had with Empire. After Jedi he was finished with the whole thing until he decided to finish the saga with the prequels which would make him a ton of money and he would have absolute control over the output of the film.

It’s worth noting that Disney spent roughly 50% more on TFA than George did on TPM, and that’s after adjusting for inflation. To George’s credit, he spent twice Jedi’s budget on TPM. As many were saying at the time, the prequels would have cost way more if George hadn’t owned ILM. It’s ironic that seeing their work on Jurassic Park is what convinced him he could finally make the PT, because a certain Ian Malcolm quote fits rather perfectly with what he decided to do next.

SilverWook said:

Did any of the educational stuff Lucas once talked about utilizing with Young Indy ever come to pass?

Are you talking about the historical documentaries he mentioned they were working on for the dvd during that Charlie Rose interview circa RotS or is this something he mentioned way back in the early 90’s when the show was airing?

On a related note, I’m only just now getting around to watching Twin Peaks (I tried a couple years ago but only got several episodes in before getting sidetracked). I would’ve been almost five when that show started airing and I do seem to vaguely recall being aware of its existence. By contrast, imdb tells me that The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles aired from March of '92 to August of '93 and yet I don’t recall even being aware of its existence during that time at all despite being several years older.

Maybe I was too distracted by TNG and DS9 to notice, maybe I just hadn’t quite seen the Indiana Jones movies, but it’s still shockingly weird to me now that this show wasn’t even on my radar. Was it on during a bad timeslot? Is it even any good? Imdb also tells me there were several made for tv movies (or were they just direct to video?) done afterwards.

I would hear/read this show being brought up every once in a while, and remember seeing the ad at the front of the Raiders vhs (I’d seen it before and so I knew how the ad ended, but I remember this one time we were watching Raiders and my parents and their friends burst out laughing when you hear old Indy say “all before the age of 21”).

Other than that, the only things I knew about Young Indy were that some of the eventual PT crew worked on it, like McCallum and Tattersall, and I seem to recall hearing somewhere that George got back in the director’s chair for some of it and also experimented with certain digital techniques. I also see some big names were responsible for the writing and directing, like Mike Newell who went on to direct the fourth Harry Potter movie.

Anyway, I still haven’t seen it after all these years but might be interested at some point if it’s at all worth it. In retrospect, the 90’s might have been the Star Wars renaissance but it feels like the dark times for Lucasfilm since I can’t think of anything else they made during that stretch other than Radioland Murders (which I caught the end of on tv once) and TPM.

To my knowledge it’s not up on any streaming services, which is a mitigating factor since I’m not going through the trouble of getting the dvd just to see it. Maybe the show is still stuck in standard def or it’s a rights issue, or both.

They’re basically fudging all of that stuff. If this were really the prime timeline, why aren’t they wearing the sweater-looking uniforms from The Cage?

Instead they seem to have taken the Kelvin set and costumes and simply extrapolated out that in the original timeline things looked … not very different twenty years later?

No doubt the writers will explain away the inconsistencies in an interview or something. Kurtzman and Orci said somewhere that everything looks way more advanced in the Kelvin timeline because the escape shuttles took scans of the Narada and Starfleet learned all this late 24th century technology (including the Borg stuff used to grow the flower-shaped structure around the ship) 154 years ahead of time.

True, there is a difference between “bad” and “less significant.”

A good example is John Carpenter’s The Thing. It’s not as culturally significant as Star Wars and yet it’s recieved two different blu-ray transfers.

Mocata said:

The Bull’s Eyed Womprat said:

I don’t think linking to the homepage of this site is a good idea. Have any of you seen the homepage? It looks like a defunct niche website from 2007. It says ‘news’ and the newest thing isn’t from this decade… no offense of course.

Yeah already mentioned somewhere, the letter will probably go up there

Couldn’t we just make a page specifically for the letter instead of putting it on the main page?

As I recall, that’s exactly what we did for the most recent petition.

Was it actually someone else’s idea other than George to make changes to the movie (even if it was just re-doing a dozen or so shots with cgi) or were Muren and Knoll simply George’s enablers?