Fang Zei

JadedSkywalker said:

I saw this video and didn’t even bother to leave a comment, it is so idiotic. A bad faith argument. And probably the worst take i’ve ever seen.

Nearly every other director with exceptions and studios for that matter do catalog releases of their films. Star Wars not being available to own is ridiculous.

The worst argument is the money, technology has advanced where if fans can restore 35mm prints for significantly less than what FOX spent on the Special Editions, Disney could easily restore the originals and it won’t cost millions. And they don’t even need to touch the negative if they restore from another source. Obviously not a release print. Fans resorted to that because they have nothing else.

Nobody is throwing rocks at George and saying he can’t have the 2020 Special Edition locked in as his final cut, what fans want is the movies they fell in love with and as they originally were released.

It becomes even more trivial when you consider that a restoration/remastering of the unaltered versions would be a token investment. We’re only talking three movies totaling six hours of film here, not something crazy like the grand hd re-build Paramount did for all seven seasons of TNG.

Technology has indeed come so far that if the OT were to get a proper preservation now it probably wouldn’t ever need it again.

All versions should be out there, but the 2011 and 2019 versions are practically identical aside from scan / quality and color timing (at least for the OT) and the occasional difference like “Maklunkey.”

That said, George’s old friend Coppola did include the Redux version of Apocalypse Now branched onto the same 4k disc as the theatrical just as he’d done years earlier for the blu-ray, even though the 4k final cut got its own disc included and only differs from the Redux by its omission of one scene.

‘97 Jabba and Creepy Puppet Yoda should not be lost to history.

I seem to remember reading on imdb that it was 1.81:1, which would’ve roughly split the difference between the 2.39:1 aspect ratio AotC was actually finished at and the 1.43:1 of the Imax prints.

While not officially announced, there’s also the Damon Lindelof project that Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy is attached to direct, rumored to take place post-TRoS.

Criterion putting out Wall-E is notable because it’s Criterion’s first Disney release in years and their very first Disney title on 4k UHD.

It’s also notable because their new edition will have Dolby Vision whereas the Disney disc didn’t. Even the Star Wars UHD’s didn’t get dolby vision on disc. TLJ’s original 2018 release did, but it’s one of only two movies where Disney included DV (Black Panther is the other one).

I think the big difference here though is that Wall-E is just one standalone movie and not part of a bigger franchise. It would be fun if Criterion also got the rights to Ratatouille and Up because then they could put out the Pixar Art House Trilogy.

If Disney were smart, they’d keep Star Wars all to themselves and give each film its own multi-disc, multi-version collector’s edition (complete with dolby vision). I really don’t see them licensing out Star Wars, ever, although I’d love to be wrong.

2012:

This should almost go without saying, but my very first move would be to give each film of the pre-existing I-VI saga its own “all versions” edition like how WB handled Blade Runner. As a show of good will to George, I’d extend an olive branch by inviting him to make whatever changes he wants to his versions and I’d even offer to finance a complete re-do of the cgi, essentially a Special Edition 2.0, if that’s what he wanted. This would be on the understanding, though, that this would be the final edits he ever makes to the films.

Speaking of George, I think I’d keep him involved with 7-9 and at least try to incorporate more of whatever his ideas were for the ST. I don’t think I’d get Abrams, it would either be Johnson from the get-go or another filmmaker who’d only worked with smaller budgets just like George had when he made THX and Graffiti. It’s been a decade, so who knows who that could’ve been, but I wouldn’t get hung up on “this person basically already made a Star Wars movie so just give them an actual Star Wars movie” like Lucasfilm did when they courted JJ.

…But here’s my little twist, since this is all a thought experiment anyway…

…I’d insist they figure out a way to set the ST within the confines of the existing EU, if for no other reason than it would force the writers/directors to get creative and not lean on Nostalgia. Nothing that’s happened in the years since Endor needs to be referenced (Coruscant wasn’t so much as mentioned in the actual ST anyway), but there would be certain unavoidable limitations in place.

2022:

George, Rian and JJ all get offered the chance to make whatever changes they’d like to their respective works. All eleven films get the Blade Runner treatment, with all the deleted footage from Rogue One, Solo, and TRoS finally out there for all to see.

Final Cuts of all nine main saga films get released in theaters in chronological I-IX order, with only a week between the re-release of each film just like the Saturday matinee serials that inspired Star Wars in the first place. Rogue One and Solo would also occasionally be shown theatrically, as would the original cuts of the OT.

Tell a new saga taking place thousands of years either before or after the films we know and find a young, hungry director for the job.

bkev said:

While that would be wonderful, I don’t share your optimism on the subject. Disney runs Lucasfilm very much like Lucas ran Lucasfilm. It’s a brand and a narrative first. Those alternate takes don’t matter because they didn’t make it, especially if they change the story in a significant fashion. I’m honestly surprised we ever got the deleted scenes from the OT.

George at least put out the GOUT to shut down bootleggers pushing laserdisc rips.

We’re only just this year getting to the point where the entire OOT has been made available from modern scans of actual 35mm release prints.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the first laserdisc rips of the OOT started showing up around 2003. Three years later, George put out the GOUT.

Disney themselves just made the Light and Magic ILM documentary which includes lots of OOT footage. For me it’s not that far of a stretch to think they’d be open to restoring/remastering those versions, if only because it would be yet another re-release for them to profit off of.

alexp120 said:

Fang Zei said:

Wall-E is getting a Criterion 4k release in November, the first time in years they’ve put out a Disney movie.

I can’t picture Disney licensing out the home video rights of their huge franchise to another home video distributor.

You’re probably right, and Wall-E is a standalone film which is why it would make more sense for Disney to license that out to them just as they did with Armageddon back in the dvd days.

Disney might just go all out on Star Wars by themselves years from now when they’ve decided there’s no way to wring any more sales out of the 2020 release. Even for the films made under their ownership there’s plenty of unseen stuff to include if they really wanted to, like Lord and Miller’s material for Solo that didn’t make it into the Ron Howard version or the rough cut of Rogue One. There’s even stuff from the ST itself that we know got filmed but never saw the light of day, like all the deleted scenes for TRoS.

TLJ is probably the only one where I can’t think of anything they didn’t already include on the already available bonus materials that would be of any interest, although I suppose alternate cuts of VII, VIII and IX, basically an ST-SE, would at least make things consistent across all nine films if they were to restore and include the OOT and OPT alongside George’s preferred cuts of I-VI.

Virtus-Christi said:

I loved the other 35mm restorations, so I can’t wait for this. It’s sad that a multi-billion dollar corporation can’t be bothered to do this themselves, but I suppose if they gave us a flawless, restored release they couldn’t sell us on future ones down the line. Gotta get that 4K disc!, then that 8K disc!, then that 8K 3D disc, each with it’s own head-scratching changes. Just good enough to make us happy, but just bad enough to keep us hooked on the next version.

I’ll never say never, but it’s highly unlikely that there will be another physical disc format after 4k UHD.

Speaking of which, Wall-E is getting a Criterion 4k release in November, the first time in years they’ve put out a Disney movie. Like I said, never say never.

8

J0E said:

Swordless Link said:

anakinthechosenone said:

Any update on this project? Super curious!

Seconded. I donated to this one quite a bit and it’s easily the project I’m most eager to see completed due to us not yet having a non-cam version of theatrical Episode II.

Would love to hear how it’s going.

Well we kind of do, from everything I’ve been able to gather the digital theatrical version is 100% identical to the DVD/HDTV captures. The problem with that is that it was actually the least common version you’d see in theaters in 2002.

The most common versions were the IMAX cut and the 35mm theatrical cut. The only differences between the digital theatrical version and the 35mm theatrical version is a voice line when Padme falls out of the gunship, some removed speeders in the chase at the beginning, “To be angry is to be human” wasn’t in the 35mm version and Anakin’s robot hand didn’t hold Padme’s hand during their wedding.

With that being said I’d still love to see a proper 35mm scan of this film for those very minor changes alone in a relatively high quality. Unfortunately there isn’t much interest in preserving the worst Star Wars movie right now. I’m sure it’ll happen someday.

I know I’m quoting a post that’s almost two years old now, but there are a couple common misconceptions here.

I’m 99% sure that the “to be angry is to be human” line wasn’t added at all until the dvd. The only difference I remember reading about between the 35mm and digital versions while the film was still playing in theaters that summer twenty years ago (yup) was Padme taking Anakin by his robotic hand at the end. In the 35mm version it just hangs there lifeless.

That was the only noticeable difference, mind you. George probably tweaked dozens of shots in those extra few days he had to work on the digital version before sending it to the hundred or so theaters in the entire world capable of digital projection at the time.

The Imax prints would’ve been even rarer, and weren’t released until within a week or so of the dvd (which always seemed like a weird business strategy to me, but whatever).

Darth Muffy said:

Very happy with the epic finale we got, apart from a few fan tweaks needed to mute Boba somewhat and make him more of a leader (as well as sort out that mod bike episode scene😬) I think we’ve got a good StarWars series overall and with the Obi-Wan Kenobi series coming in march its a good time to be a StarWars fan 😁👍.

The Obi-Wan series doesn’t start until May 25 (appropriately enough). Moon Knight, which ironically stars an actor who is probably best known for appearing in Star Wars, is coming from Marvel at the end of March. Spielberg’s West Side Story goes up on D+ in early March.

Anyway, I enjoyed the finale. Speaking of Dune references, the Rancor’s roar really reminded me of how the Sandworms in the Sci-Fi Channel Dune miniseries sounded. I wonder if that’s a pre-existing recording that’s simply been repurposed over the years. I’d be curious to know the origin of that roar because I feel like I’ve also heard it elsewhere.

The red/blue shield effect reminded me a lot of the new Dune film.

May 25th, how appropriate!

https://twitter.com/disneyplus/status/1491528787346923521?s=21

Darth telly said:

I know I am reviving this thread after 18 years, but is there any other evidence of him liking the special edition.

He didn’t really consider the changes to be “changes” in the first place, if that makes sense.

Someone at the press conference for the dvd all the way back in 2004 (which included Mark Hamill, Irvin Kershner, Lucasfilm president Jim Ward and the Lowry guys) asked Kersh what he thought about the Special Edition and also his thoughts on ESB being the one with the least changes made to it.

The moderator kinda jokingly relays it to Kersh and kinda slowly says “he’s talking about … this idea (some laughs from the audience) that there’ve been changes made to the movie over the years.”

His response?

“Frankly I don’t know what he’s talking about. The sound was enhanced, the picture was enhanced, we added the snow monster. It’s the movie I made.”

Maybe he also mentioned Cloud City, I can’t remember now. Only reason I remember what I do now after more than 17 years is because I listened to the audio of it multiple times back in the day.

Kersh had this observation about making ESB that still sticks with me. He said he felt like he was working in the old Soviet system because it was like he was making two films: one for the censor, and one for the audience who would understand what he was trying to say.

I remember…

In 1994 there was a magazine called Science Fiction Universe and the first issue had a cover story stating that the next Star Wars trilogy was only three years away.

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but the 1995 Faces/THX vhs of the OT was literally advertised as “The Original Version, One Last Time.” For whatever reason, I don’t think I’d put it together that it meant George would be making changes to the films.

In November of 1996 I saw Star Trek: First Contact on opening night (with vfx by John Knoll!) while my mom took my sister to see Jingle All The Way, which of course co-starred Jake Lloyd not long before he would be cast as a young Anakin.

When we met up in the parking lot afterwards, they mentioned that they saw a preview in front of Jingle All The Way announcing that the Star Wars movies were going to be released in theaters again starting in January.

This was news to me.

I also vaguely remember them saying something about there being new special effects, and at some point in January I very clearly remember seeing an ad on tv with the “praxis shockwave” added to the Death Star explosion.

Anyway, I remember my mom taking me to see ANH on opening weekend. Maybe one or two of my friends was with me. I somehow didn’t notice the change to the Han/Greedo scene until almost a year later watching it on letterboxed vhs. The newly added Jabba scene kinda overshadowed it anyway. I always loved how funny and goofy and cartoony this cg Jabba looked and kinda missed it when the model was redone for the dvd in 2004.

My mom took me to see Empire a week or so after it opened in late February. It was during the week, so it was a much different experience than the huge crowd for ANH.

The thing that still sticks out in my memory about RotJ, which I saw with some friends on opening weekend in mid March, was how LOUD Luke’s lightsaber was. I was eleven (closer to twelve) and had seen the movies multiple times either on USA Network or on vhs, so pretty much all of the changes were noticeable to me. The new piece of music John Williams wrote for the ending felt much more epic and went along well with the sweeping new Galactic Celebration montage.

Of course, in the years since I’ve come to appreciate and mainly prefer the original versions that much more, maybe because they’ve been suppressed by the very man who created them.

As cool as it was for me as a kid growing up in the 90’s to see these three films I’d known as classics for the very first time on the big screen with updated technology, I think George would’ve done better to leave well enough alone and not change a thing.

But in November of ‘98, as I watched that first teaser for TPM and saw the newer Lucasfilm logo and cg dewbacks and rontos, I got the feeling deep down that the Special Edition was going to be considered the “official” version of the OT going forward.

Still, I never would’ve imagined that George would not only make further revisions (if only logical to make the OT of a piece with the prequels) but also take such a disdainful view of the unaltered versions. The enthusiasm and ingenuity demonstrated by the community on these forums is what brought me here in the first place and I am grateful to have found fellow fans who care about preserving the legacy of this franchise.

I’m assuming the error of The Beginning: Making Episode I documentary getting put onto the disc in letterboxed 4:3 (as opposed to 16:9 as it is on the second disc of the TPM dvd from 2001) never got fixed?

Unless of course that was done intentionally for some weird reason (maybe so the lower resolution wouldn’t be as obvious? I doubt they finished it in anything higher than SD all the way back in 2001, and most of the footage is from ‘97 to ‘99 anyway). But if your documentary is already formatted for 16:9 tv then I don’t know why you wouldn’t keep it that way.

Just thought I would let everyone know that over on 4K80’s page at thestarwarstrilogy.com the progress bar for reel 2 (the only remaining reel yet to be fully restored) has already been updated several times just within the last couple weeks.

It was sitting at 62% for a good long while, but now is almost at 70%!

Encouraging news. Anyone awaiting this release should head on over and send them a donation if they haven’t already. Every dollar helps.

Three different cuts of The Godfather Part III will be released on actual physical 4k UHD discs this year.

How ironic that these 4k masters were prepared almost a decade ago for 3D conversions that never ended up happening.

Of course, it’s never too late for Disney to change their minds about that. They could put it out later this year ahead of Avatar 2 just like the cgi dino edition was first released only a few months before The Lost World.

It would be like poetry, it would rhyme.

yotsuya said:

From several comments I’ve read about what George intended if he made a sequel trilogy, was it really Disney who pushed the EU to Legends, or was that from George? It happened after the purchase, but so did the real development of the sequel trilogy. The way I’m reading the events is that this was an internal Lucasfilm dictate because the films trump the books and related materials.

The 2008 Clone Wars set a major precedent when it basically disregarded the entire continuity of the 2002-2005 clone wars multimedia project.

So yeah, I think it’s fair to say that even if George had been more directly involved with Episode VII he still wouldn’t have felt beholden to the existing EU in any way.

Anyone else remember when Labyrinth of Evil came out right before the final episodes of the Tartakovsky clone wars and we basically got to see the EU contradict itself in real time?

That guy with no name said:

Fang Zei said:

That guy with no name said:

Mocata said:

I’ll be interested to see if 3D is still a thing by that point in time.

That’s what I thought until I saw Jurassic Park 3D: unwatchable.

At least the 3D version of Jurassic Park was from a newer scan than what the blu-ray used.

The OT, on the other hand, still hasn’t even been projected theatrically at modern 4k quality. To the best of my knowledge, that dcp of Empire that’s been shown here and there since last summer is still based off the 2011 master.

Damn, I never thought about that.

Yup

Even with the 4k master finally available at home in late 2019 / early 2020 (after apparently being in the works for years), Disney still puts out the 2011 revision of the 2004 HD master of Empire for actual movie theaters to show.

That right there makes me think that they don’t want the newer masters being shown theatrically at all until they’ve been prepared for a rollout in grand fashion. That means remastering them for dolby cinema, Imax, and 3D.

That guy with no name said:

Mocata said:

I’ll be interested to see if 3D is still a thing by that point in time.

That’s what I thought until I saw Jurassic Park 3D: unwatchable.

At least the 3D version of Jurassic Park was from a newer scan than what the blu-ray used.

The OT, on the other hand, still hasn’t even been projected theatrically at modern 4k quality. To the best of my knowledge, that dcp of Empire that’s been shown here and there since last summer is still based off the 2011 master.

Mocata said:

I’ll be interested to see if 3D is still a thing by that point in time.

Probably not any more or less than it is right now. The main point of 3D from a financial perspective was to help offset the expensive conversion from film projection to digital. The studios and theaters realize there’s still an audience for 3D, though. There’s just not a particularly big one, which is why you’ll see less 3D showtimes now and mostly normal 2D.

3D is all the rage in certain parts of the world outside the US, though. That’s probably the big reason why the studios continue to spend the extra money in post on these big budget productions to convert them. Otherwise it wouldn’t really be worth it for them.

A 3D re-release of all nine main saga films in theaters in 2027 with a trailer attached to Avatar 4 in December of 2026 seems like a no-brainer to me.

Putting each of the Skywalker movies out one week after another in chronological I-IX order, just like the Saturday matinee serials that inspired them, seems even more obvious.

As for physical media, I’ll never say never regarding the OOT. Disney knows it’s the last thing the vast majority of fans will ever need, so they’ll keep it in their back pocket until they’ve exhausted every other possible selling point. That said, the 2020 release represents the first time they had the rights to all of the Fox era films completely under their ownership and they still didn’t include the unaltered versions, so who knows?