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Fang Zei

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Join date
14-Oct-2006
Last activity
27-Jan-2022
Posts
2,727

Post History

Post
#1307194
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

So, have only some of the ‘04/‘11 changes been redone but others pulled from the same source? Off the top of my head, so far we’ve spotted the aurebesh tractor beam readout on the Death Star in ANH and Anakin’s eyebrows in RotJ as having been redone.

What about the blinking Ewoks? R2 spazzing out during the Endor battle? The first shot in the approach to Mos Eisley (which now has ‘97 and ‘04 changes)?

Post
#1306926
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Will the forthcoming “filmmaker mode” standard apply to colors/brightness/contrast or just to other picture settings like the soap opera effect?

It will apply to everything. Apparently the main push behind building in a “filmmaker mode” was making sure the soap opera effect was turned off, but otherwise this seems to be pretty much the same as the movie/cinema mode pretty much all hdtv’s already have.

It’s also important to note, as discussed upthread, that even this new “filmmaker mode” won’t be the same thing as a proper calibration. Hopefully it’ll mean every tv with it built in will be as close as possible to calibrated “out of the box” at the push of a button, but the only way to know for sure that all your settings are exactly where they should be is by breaking out the scopes, taking measurements, and adjusting everything accordingly.

Post
#1306841
Topic
<strong>Disney+</strong> streaming platform : <strong>Star Wars content</strong> &amp; various other info
Time

DominicCobb said:

I checked quickly and it looked like HD footage from the blu-ray to me. I didn’t take a close look but the shots that I saw of original footage looked pretty shitty to me, definitely not HD.

That unaltered shot of the Falcon and the last remaining fighters flying away from the Death Star right before it blows up and the unaltered Death Star explosion are still there. I don’t remember if the SE shots earlier in the doc are replacing unaltered shots or if those were already SE.

Post
#1306716
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Jay said:

HDTVTest evaluates the OT and ST in HDR on Disney+

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGZmMjPJiAk

Vincent of HDTVTest is a respected reviewer and display calibrator. He doesn’t get into color grading or anything like that, but it’s an interesting look into whether the OT on Disney+ is true HDR or just some contrast tweaks (spoiler: it’s not real HDR).

I wonder how much of the issue is “fake HDR.” They may have simply intentionally graded it that way, giving it a restrained HDR pass. It may also be that there isn’t a whole lot of dynamic range to squeeze out of the camera negatives at this point, if there ever was to begin with.

But if I had to guess, I’d say that even if they could have gotten more HDR “pop” they still chose not to, if only so that the OT would still recognizably look like the OT. For all the time they’ve spent keeping the OOT buried, Lucasfilm sure seems to be striving for authenticity as far as the color and contrast goes.

Post
#1306665
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

Broom Kid said:

Fang Zei said:
What about the theatrical prequels and the 120 minute imax cut of AotC?

That AOTC IMAX cut (Burtt edited it himself, correct?) is like the holy grail. Many have tried to replicate it, so far as I can tell none have figured out how to get it exactly right. I’d love to see it again - I only saw it the once, almost 20 years ago now, and would love to check it out again.

I imagine it will probably be lost to history. Even if the digital imax master from before they printed it out to 70mm still exists somewhere, it may never see the light of day.

Post
#1306362
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

schorman13 said:

Broom Kid said:

I still have my faintest of faint “recreated Original Versions as a bonus feature on the box set” hopes holding on.

Essentially - a Disney-created “despecialized edition.”

To me that’s about the only way the boxset would become a “must buy” for anyone. If there’s nothing exclusive, like the theatrical versions, then most people will be fine just having them to stream on D+.

This way, they can use 4K Star Wars to drive up D+ membership, and still have something left to help sell the boxset next year.

To me it feels inevitable, the only question is how comprehensive they get.

For example, do they include the ‘97 SE as well? What about the theatrical prequels and the 120 minute imax cut of AotC? Do the earlier versions get relegated to only 1080p sdr on disc while Maclunkey gets to shine in 4k HDR?

But yeah, considering there’s going to be a huge overlap between D+ subscribers and those who were planning on buying the 4k discs, I don’t know how Disney plans on selling them in big numbers without including something “truly special.”

Post
#1306227
Topic
Info: All Star Wars films released in 4K HDR on Disney Plus: 2019 SE with more changes
Time

I don’t have a nice professionally calibrated display to watch the 19SE on, so take this with a grain of salt, but is anyone else noticing a jarring color difference between the cg and model shots during battle of Yavin or is it just me? I remember it looking more consistent in ‘97 and 04/11 (they just kinda sucked all the color out for the latter)

The model shots were all re-comp’d digitally in ‘97 IIRC, so they should be newer pieces of o-neg just like the cg shots and therefore not degraded color-wise like the older parts of the o-neg. Maybe what we’re seeing is this modern scan in 16-bit color bump up against the limitations of whatever was rendered out in ‘97? Bill Hunt did mention in his quick take that the ‘97 cg shots now look all the more jarringly dated in the ‘19 version, so maybe this is part of what he was talking about.

Post
#1306224
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Hal 9000 said:

More evidence that this version use the 1997 special edition as its base, with subsequent changes being re-created fresh.

Which was always going to be the case since the o-neg itself was conformed to the SE edit of the movie back in ‘97.

Btw, I guess this means the initial scan (before they redid the ‘04 and ‘11 changes) was/is the 1997 version exactly as it existed back then. I’m not going to hold my breath, but this does at least mean they’ve now got that version scanned in at the highest possible quality, not to mention roughly 80% of the unaltered OOT camera negative as well.

IIRC, there was a rumor several years ago that every last piece of film in Lucasfilm’s vaults were being scanned in and catalogued. Perhaps this 19SE is just the tip of the iceberg.

Post
#1306206
Topic
Info: All Star Wars films released in 4K HDR on Disney Plus: 2019 SE with more changes
Time

Re: the 19SE OT looking duller colorwise compared to the 2004 master, there’s a couple things to consider here. For one thing, we’ve gotten so used to the ‘04 look that it seems jarring.

The other thing to consider is the OT’s place in the context of the I-IX saga and how we go from the colorful prequels in the waning days of the Old Republic to the sterile, totalitarian reign of the Empire in the OT. The ST seems more “naturalistic” in its look to me than either of the other trilogies.

Obviously this puts aside how the OT actually looked in its original run and in ‘97, but the consensus seems to be that the new master looks much closer to the original colors than the ‘04 did anyway. The prequels, meanwhile, also seem closer to their theatrical colors than they did in 2011.

Post
#1305658
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

4throck said:

Fang Zei said:

Could the desaturated look be a result of the streaming compression?>

No, compression or resolution won’t affect saturation.

But HDR vs SDR colorspace and brightness will make a difference.
SDR has a smaller colorspace, so it’s less saturated by definition.

Seeing the screenshot comparisons between the 19SE and the 04/11 reminds me in a big way of the differences between the old blu-ray of The Matrix (which, it’s worth noting, would’ve also been from an hd master created in 2004 just like the OT blu-ray) and the remastered-in-4k blu-ray included with the UHD release.

Post
#1305638
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Could the desaturated look be a result of the streaming compression? Vudu undoubtedly uses a higher bitrate than Disney+, closer to what you’d be seeing on an actual blu-ray. A proper screenshot comparison will tell the story.

Also, since no one’s brought it up yet, presumably the new 4k masters are what will be used from now on for the dcp’s that get sent out to theaters?

Post
#1305114
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Depheros said:

Ewok eyes
Yes, everything post-1997 has been redone. I’m guessing the 1997 scenes have their pre-2004 compositing too? Not sure. (were 97SE shots recomp’ed in 2004 or am I remembering that wrong?)

The recomps were done in ‘97 from what I remember.

EDIT: nevermind, just realized I might’ve read your question wrong. What exactly do you mean by “recomping the 97SE shots”?

Post
#1305104
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

DominicCobb said:

It’s all guesswork, but TPM got a new scan for the BD, so it’d be odd if they did another new scan a year later for it.

There’s nothing to scan. The movie was essentially “rebuilt” directly from the digital filmout tapes in 2011 (they were still readable after more than a decade) in preparation for the blu-ray and the 3D version. That rebuilt master is what they’ll be going back to from now on to make any new transfers of the film.

Post
#1305050
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

pat man said:

DrDre said:

pat man said:

nl0428 said:

If anyone here went to go see the 3D release of The Phantom Menace, please tell me what the master and color grading looked like. Did it look like the 2011 Blu-ray, or this new Disney+ version?

I didn’t see the 3d release. But skimming through the movies the Prequels are just upscaled Blu-ray. I.e. nasty teal shift in Aotc.

No, they are not. The color grading is markedly different, more muted like the for the OT, and obviously HDR. I also don’t see any evidence of a blanket teal shift. There are plenty of blue skies, and white clouds in AOTC.

Ah, I’ve only streamed the HD version on disney plus.

The hd version doesn’t look like the blu-rays either, though. Whether you’re watching it in hdr or sdr, the new D+ transfers look like they’ve been made “fresh from the source” and not recycled from the hd masters prepared back in 2011 for the blu’s. I was streaming the beginning of AotC yesterday on D+ in regular hd and the colors looked noticeably closer to how I remember it looking in the theater and on dvd, without the teal cast of the bd.

Post
#1305045
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Mocata said:

Fang Zei said:

Mocata said:

Rodney-2187 said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Why can’t they just pull a Blade Runner, in which they release another Special Edition while packaging it with the previous versions (original cuts, 1997 versions, 2004 versions, and 2011 versions)?

I think everyone would love that, but this is something they could have done for years and haven’t. Many have said Disney/Lucasfilm is either contractually obligated by Lucas to only release the revised editions, or they feel beholden to Lucas to not go against his wishes. I used to think that sounded like a crazy conspiracy theory, but here we are with a restored 4K HDR version of the Original Trilogy, that was done years ago, and no sign of the unaltered versions.

Could they be included in some way on the inevitable disc release? Maybe, but I wouldn’t bet my credits on it.

Or they like having one version only. The myth of one vision at this point is stronger than the reality, which is fractured. Beyond contractual agreements in handing George the money, this is the only reasonable conclusion. The Mouse House wouldn’t want to be seen as weak.

Except now they’ve put up the 4k hdr versions on the streaming service ahead of the physical UHD release and not the other way around. There’s bound to be a lot of overlap between fans signing up to see The Mandalorian / Cassian / Obi-Wan and those who were planning on buying the eventual 4k disc release of the OT. Now those in the overlap have one less reason to bother with the latter since they can just stream it whenever they want. Unless of course Disney were to throw something else into the package to sweeten the deal.

I don’t follow you? New releases, old releases, all that matters is the idea this was the “original vision”. Most people think George Lucas created Star Wars already and they will watch or buy any version without questioning it. Most people probably don’t care about streaming or HD or anything, they just consume stuff when it is presented to them. We are now on the 4th Special Edition it still says “1977” on the new service but only super nerds like us will even notice.

My point is that a lot of those same fans probably also signed up for D+ and can now stream the latest version of the movies, in full 4k and hdr if they so desire, whenever they want. So why would those fans bother to spend additional money just to own it physically? If Disney really wants the discs to sell, and sell big, they’re now going to have to throw something in other than just the same streamable versions with a higher bitrate and better compression, and I think we all know what that something is.

Post
#1305038
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Mocata said:

Rodney-2187 said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Why can’t they just pull a Blade Runner, in which they release another Special Edition while packaging it with the previous versions (original cuts, 1997 versions, 2004 versions, and 2011 versions)?

I think everyone would love that, but this is something they could have done for years and haven’t. Many have said Disney/Lucasfilm is either contractually obligated by Lucas to only release the revised editions, or they feel beholden to Lucas to not go against his wishes. I used to think that sounded like a crazy conspiracy theory, but here we are with a restored 4K HDR version of the Original Trilogy, that was done years ago, and no sign of the unaltered versions.

Could they be included in some way on the inevitable disc release? Maybe, but I wouldn’t bet my credits on it.

Or they like having one version only. The myth of one vision at this point is stronger than the reality, which is fractured. Beyond contractual agreements in handing George the money, this is the only reasonable conclusion. The Mouse House wouldn’t want to be seen as weak.

Except now they’ve put up the 4k hdr versions on the streaming service ahead of the physical UHD release and not the other way around. There’s bound to be a lot of overlap between fans signing up to see The Mandalorian / Cassian / Obi-Wan and those who were planning on buying the eventual 4k disc release of the OT. Now those in the overlap have one less reason to bother with the latter since they can just stream it whenever they want. Unless of course Disney were to throw something else into the package to sweeten the deal.

Post
#1304966
Topic
<strong>Disney+</strong> streaming platform : <strong>Star Wars content</strong> &amp; various other info
Time

doubleofive said:

adywan said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

It’s not just the sky that has been changed. The dunes were altered for the SE and they have reverted those back to the '77 version

I noticed this last night too. I didn’t realize it was the original sand though. The sky/sand replacement was 2004.

Is… is this a sign they actually went back to the 97 negative and redid all of the subsequent changes?

I have so much work to do.

JEDIT: this would also explain why it doesn’t have the mistakes introduced in 04 (Ben’s purple lightsaber, the glow added without the core, Ghost Luke).

They still haven’t fixed what is imo RotJ’s most glaring vfx error, which is that when the DS2 destroys another ship all of the stationary ships in the background roll with the camera.

Post
#1304962
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Does anyone have a D+ subscription and the hardware to stream it in 4k (even if it’s only in sdr)? I’d be very curious what the OT looks like at full 2160p res. The compression probably cancels out some of the extra detail, but I would still think this looks better than what we’ve had to live with for the last 15 years.

Rogue One was also finished in 4k IIRC, so there should be some increase in detail, compression notwithstanding. TFA was only finished in 2k AFAIK, but the hdr should impress.

It’s the stuck-in-2k PT that I’m maybe the most curious about, both in terms of the 4k upscale and how it fares in hdr.

Post
#1304931
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

JawsTDS said:

This recent development has me wondering about those Blu-rays that came out a few weeks back. Everyone was aware that they had the 2011 changes on them, but I wondering if somehow they missed out on the fact that it could’ve had a new scan?

I read that it was just the 2011 discs rebranded / repackaged, but can anyone on this forum definitively confirm that?

I’m pretty sure the discs from September were the exact same from 2011. Disney probably didn’t want to spend a single red cent re-authoring I-VI, even though we now know they had a new master literally right around the corner. They probably just wanted to get them all out there individually in cheap packaging (not steelbooks) since they closed the Fox buyout only a few months earlier.

But like I said before, now we know why they waited so long to put this new transfer out there. I was convinced we wouldn’t see it in any form until the UHD discs arrived, just so they could blow everyone away with the picture quality compared to any previous release of the films. It’s clear now they wanted to save it not for disc, but for their streaming service. Now they can sell D+ with it and tout streamable 4k hdr versions of all the Star Wars movies.

Post
#1304676
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Octorox said:

Has anyone been able to determine if the wacky editing changes from the Attack of the Clones Blu-Ray are still there?

I was actually trying to remember what the changes were when I was watching the first few scenes this morning. All I remember is something got switched around when they fly through the power couplings and also the scene where Dooku escapes into space is rearranged as well.

Maybe someone can do a quick comparison between the bd and the D+ to see if those scenes have been changed yet again.

Post
#1304654
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Yeah I skimmed through the first several scenes of AotC this morning specifically to see if there was still a green/teal tint, and it appears to be gone. Coruscant’s skies actually look blue and there are some deep reds during the speeder chase.

I seem to recall seeing a screenshot comparison back in 2011 where one of the Twi’leks standing behind Padme when she arrives at Palpatine’s office is blue in one version and green in the other, so it would be interesting to compare them yet again with this new transfer.

Haven’t checked out TPM or RotS yet.

Post
#1304626
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Mocata said:

Han Solo IRL said:

https://abload.de/img/benvaderp8ktk.png

https://abload.de/img/lukefalconcrjkm.png

https://streamable.com/nit5m

Jeez. Everyone is waiting for some miraculous OOT release and they’re doing THIS?

…Wait is Vader’s red/green suit control button been changed to red/blue like in ESB? Weird thing to notice… but y’know.

Since anyone with a Disney+ subscription can now stream the movies in 4k hdr whenever they want, I have to wonder if Disney isn’t planning on restoring the OOT to include in the UHD disc package just so they can give fans a selling point other than simply “the same exact thing you can stream on D+ … but with better compression and on a disc!”

Post
#1304536
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Harmy said:

Looking at the screenshots posted so far, it does look like a new master but not necessarily a new scan, because the clarity/detail level is comparable to or worse than the 2004 masters.
It might be that they simply found the 2004 digital masters before the color grading and sharpening and upscaled them and gave them a new grade, which would have been necessary for HDR anyway.

I feel like you’re overthinking it.

This has to be from the 4k 16-bit restoration we first heard about more than five years ago. Now we know why it took so long to get out there. Disney clearly wanted to save it for their streaming service.

I was checking out the ESB duel and it looks identical to the brief glimpses we got in Reliance MediaWorks’ sizzle reel, and not like the blu-ray.