Fang Zei

John Knoll broke it down in an interview with Slashfilm last year when asked how many vfx shots were in Rogue One:

“It’s about 1,700. The original A New Hope was about 360. Empire Strikes Back was about 700. Return of the Jedi was about 900 or 950. Episode I was 1,900-something, 1950, I think. Episode II was 2,200. Episode III was 2,400. Episode VII was, I think just under 2,000. So we’re kind of in the middle.”

http://www.slashfilm.com/rogue-one-john-knoll-interview/

SilverWook said:

L.P. Hovercraft said:

We do have Carnival Magic on Blu-ray, but we still don’t have Star Wars '77!

I barely survived the MST3K version! And how the hell did that thing get a G rating? There’s an attempted vivesection scene for pete’s sake!

The MPAA ratings for many older films are baffling to me.

2001: A Space Odyssey got a G rating, as did Star Trek: The Motion Picture. The audio remix done for the TMP director’s edition actually bumped it up to a PG, if you could believe it.

Also, I remember reading once that Star Wars ‘77 was actually going to get a G rating but George himself requested it be PG.

The single most confusing rating of all time in my book has got to be Spaceballs getting a PG in 1987, three years after the pg-13 was introduced.

While we’re on the subject, the most well-known Star Wars parody has a decent-looking blu-ray transfer and Star Wars doesn’t.

TPM had trailers for American Pie and Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me, both of which mentioned Star Wars. Fox put together a “sizzle reel” of three short trailers for Anna and the King, Fight Club, and Titan AE. There was a news story several days earlier IIRC that Lucasfilm had actually demanded the total runtime of trailers in front of TPM not exceed ten minutes or so (maybe it was more like 15 minutes, can’t remember now, it was almost 19 years ago).

The trailer for Like Mike played in front of my opening day screening of AotC. I only remember that because a friend joked as we were leaving the theater during the end credits that AotC had no chance of beating its box office.

The first teaser for the Matrix sequels was also in front of AotC. I had just seen the official upload online the night before in what must’ve been tiny quicktime, but I remember my friend sitting next to me going “Zion!” when they showed that wide shot of all the people assembled in the cave.

I can’t for the life of me remember what played in front of RotS. If I had to guess, I’d say Batman Begins and Fantastic Four were probably among them.

The documentary Side by Side covers this whole topic pretty well. It’s basically about how digital technology has changed every aspect of the film industry over the last several decades. Lucas and David Tattersall are both interviewed, among many others.

Tattersall makes an interesting analogy regarding the criticism at the time that they were taking a giant step backwards quality-wise by choosing to shoot Ep2 in digital:

“You’ve got to lean back in order to spring forward.”

It does bother me that AotC and RotS will never have the same unified look as TPM, the OT and now the ST, but it was George’s money being spent on the PT and he didn’t want several million dollars going just towards scanning in all of the 35mm footage on the last two prequels like he had to do with TPM.

There were 4 different versions of the movie in 2002 alone:

The digital cinema version that played in a hundred or so theaters in the U.S. had Anakin and Padme holding hands at the end whereas the 35mm version simply had Anakin’s metal hand hanging there in that shot.

The Imax version released later that year in November is about twenty minutes shorter since this was still the very earliest days of full-length Hollywood movies being released in 15/70 and the projector platters could only hold 120 minutes worth of film.

Apollo 13 was the first to get the Imax DMR treatment earlier that year and was also shortened. AotC was the second IIRC.

The platter problem was rectified soon after since the Matrix sequels released the very next year were not shortened for Imax.

The current limit is apparently 167 minutes, so there’s a reason the theatrical versions of Watchmen, Avatar, and the only version of Dark Knight Rises all happen to fit just within that running time. Interstellar just barely fit and apparently used a slide-show version of the end credits to shave off three minutes without removing anything from the actual movie.

Anyway, this brings us finally to the dvd/vhs version which was released within only a week or so of the Imax version (which never made any sense to me from a business perspective but then again this is the same Lucasfilm that decided to release TPM 3D in theaters several months after the blu-ray).

The main change made for the dvd/vhs (yes, they’re identical outside of obvious differences like framing) was the extended scene of Anakin’s confession to Padme about the Tusken slaughter. In the theatrical versions, it wipes to the next scene before Padme’s “to be flawed is to be human” (or whatever she says) and Anakin’s “I’m a Jedi, I know I’m better than this.” Btw, the audio of Anakin saying “I’m a Jedi” was used in that web-exclusive teaser-teaser trailer in October/November of ‘01, so it was a nice surprise when it showed up in the movie a year later.

Maybe they just need to recoup their investment as soon as possible.

Ron Howard reshooting most of Lord/Miller’s principle photography must have run the budget up quite a bit.

You’ve got to wonder why they didn’t just push Solo back to December like they did with TLJ.

Is Disney really that scared of Aquaman?

SilverWook said:

As Criterion has a long relationship with Disney, anything could happen once the Fox deal is done. I don’t think they’ve ever done a 20th Century Fox film before?

Kagemusha was Fox IIRC.

The deal is expected to take a year until it actually closes, so I’m assuming the rights to I-VI won’t formally pass to Disney until then.

nickyd47 said:

Fang Zei said:

nickyd47 said:

Fang Zei said:

nickyd47 said:

If the pattern is to be followed, we’re due for another Star Wars box set this 2018. Since 1990, every 7 years a new Star Wars box set gets released. Make my day Disney

They’re going to have to steer clear of the home release windows for TLJ and Solo so as not to compete with themselves, which leaves two (possibly three) choices within the next couple years:

They actually cut the prices of the other Star Wars Blu-Rays when Force Awakens and Rogue One hit home video. I’m sure people would by 4K prequel and 4K OT sets with their copy of The Last Jedi

The other blu-rays had been out for nearly half a decade by that point. They slashed the price to move a few more units since they knew people would be vulnerable to suggestion while buying the new movies.

I just don’t get the whole competition thing you mentioned. If I see a movie that I love being sold at a higher price than I movie I find to be ok/mediocre, I’m gonna buy the movie I enjoy more even if it costs way more than the other title

I didn’t fully grasp what you were saying earlier until now. You make a good point.

Wazzles said:

Ryan said:

Wazzles said:

Ryan said:

Wazzles said:

Ryan said:

Wazzles said:

The original negative is conformed to the Special Edition, which was not fully digitized until the DVD master was made. However, Lucasfilm likely stored the pieces of the negative they removed, and they have recently been archiving every single piece of film and audio they have. So in a sense, the original negative has been digitized, but it’s not assembled or restored.

Do you know what resolution the negatives were digitized in? i.e. 1080P?

Really hope Lucasfilm has digitized all their OT recordings in the highest quality available. Things like music and sound effects, etc.

The stuff they’ve been archiving recently is most likely 4k, but who knows.

The thing I’m worried about is the original negative of the OT. Lucas said it was in terrible shape back in the early 90’s, i.e. fragile and pink colors, etc. So, I’m just wondering how they’d do a 4K scan on it 25 year later?

I still hope they at least try to do a 4K scan of all of the original pieces of the negative for the OT soon. I do believe they’d said that 4K scan they did recently was of the special edition. Whatever that means. Hopefully more comes out on that. As I know we all were hoping that 4K scan was of the pre-special edition stuff.

The negatives were restored to a degree before the special edition work began, so it should be in okay shape.

Do you know if that “restored” meant they were able to stop the film color fade? It’s my understanding the film stock Lucas used during that time period ended up being poor film stock. And thus the deterioration and bad color fade happened. Which is why the negative looked pink and thus resulted in extensive recoloring and things that people complain about.

At least in the case of the portions that were used for the special edition, yeah. Nobody outside of Lucasfilm has seen the pieces that were removed, but those are supposedly in horrendous condition.

This is why the most reliable way to restore the OUT may be to simply go to the separation masters. Scanning them in and recombining them won’t have quite the same level of detail as the o-neg, but it would still be “close enough” in my book.

The o-neg, meanwhile, appears to also have been in good enough shape for George to re-scan it nearly a decade after the Lowry job. Granted, he only needed it to look the way he wanted.

nickyd47 said:

Fang Zei said:

nickyd47 said:

If the pattern is to be followed, we’re due for another Star Wars box set this 2018. Since 1990, every 7 years a new Star Wars box set gets released. Make my day Disney

They’re going to have to steer clear of the home release windows for TLJ and Solo so as not to compete with themselves, which leaves two (possibly three) choices within the next couple years:

They actually cut the prices of the other Star Wars Blu-Rays when Force Awakens and Rogue One hit home video. I’m sure people would by 4K prequel and 4K OT sets with their copy of The Last Jedi

The other blu-rays had been out for nearly half a decade by that point. They slashed the price to move a few more units since they knew people would be vulnerable to suggestion while buying the new movies.

Ryan said:

Wazzles said:

The original negative is conformed to the Special Edition, which was not fully digitized until the DVD master was made. However, Lucasfilm likely stored the pieces of the negative they removed, and they have recently been archiving every single piece of film and audio they have. So in a sense, the original negative has been digitized, but it’s not assembled or restored.

Do you know what resolution the negatives were digitized in? i.e. 1080P?

Really hope Lucasfilm has digitized all their OT recordings in the highest quality available. Things like music and sound effects, etc.

The 2004 Lowry master that was made for the dvd release (and re-used with some additional alterations for the 2011 blu-ray) was done at 1080p.

However, we know that there was a fresh 4k scan/master that was done by Reliance Media Works and completed in 2014. Gareth Edwards and John Knoll actually watched the 4k master of ANH before heading into pre-production on Rogue One.

I don’t know why I bothered trying to re-rail the thread…

The bigger question with AotC/RotS is how much difference - if any - an HDR pass will actually make.

nickyd47 said:

If the pattern is to be followed, we’re due for another Star Wars box set this 2018. Since 1990, every 7 years a new Star Wars box set gets released. Make my day Disney

They’re going to have to steer clear of the home release windows for TLJ and Solo so as not to compete with themselves, which leaves two (possibly three) choices within the next couple years:

They could put it out at the end of next year, like Nov/Dec time, since Solo will probably hit video in Sept/Oct.

Spring of ‘19, like March or April, is another possibility. There won’t be a new movie hitting home video around that time, and it would sort of be like how the OT dvd hit shelves roughly eight months before “the last Star Wars saga movie ever.”

They could wait until September 2019, closer to Ep9’s theatrical release, but I’m assuming there will be yet another “Force Friday” merchandising blitz that same month and they’d probably want to save it for another time.

I’d really love a definitive answer on what exact resolution the VFX/DI for AotC and RotS were done at.

We know they were shot at 1920:817 (cropped down from the 1920:1080 of the 16:9 sensor), but it’s not 100% clear what happened next.

2k scope is like 2048:856, so I suppose it’s possible that the live-action footage was upscaled very slightly and then the cgi and final color timing was done natively at that resolution.

But I suppose it’s also possible ILM actually worked at 1920:817, matching the live-action material pixel for pixel.

So, yeah, it would be nice to get clarification on this. But I’m not sure who would even be the person to ask.

The Lowry “restoration” of the OT done for the dvd in 2004 (and reused, with some tweaks, for the blu-ray) was only done at 1920:1080 (actually 1920:817 since it’s scope), not 2k, and there’ve been actual dcp’s made from them. On the other hand, George clearly didn’t consider it the finished master of the OT since he eventually commissioned the RMW 4k job.

The vfx (and eventual rebuild) of TPM would’ve almost certainly been true 2k scope (2048:856) since it was already the late 90’s and TPM was shot on film with a very large budget.

It’s worth noting that many of the releases on the new 4k format have been 2k upscales, even many of the 4k releases of movies made within the last couple years. There’s also been at least one live-action movie released on 4k that was shot at 1080p just like AotC/RotS (Resident Evil: Afterlife).

So the only screening I can catch on Thursday night is 12:45 AM at the Uptown.

I work at a movie theater (no, we’re not showing TLJ) and got stuck with a closing shift, but should be done by 12:20 which would give me just enough time to get over there.

Unless something unexpected comes up at the last minute, it looks like I’m doing this.

At this point I wonder if LFL would even use the RMW master or if they would just start over from scratch. Mike Verta had some harsh words for the shots featured in their demo reel and doubts that it was simply a “work in progress.”

Gareth Edwards and John Knoll actually saw the finished product with their own eyes at the beginning of pre-production on Rogue One (which would’ve been right around the time this thread was started). One of them said it looked “different” than they remembered. They also said it had only just been completed, which makes me wonder if George was even consulted in the finished color-timing since this was presumably still his version.

We also don’t know if Empire and Jedi had been finished or not. There were no shots from the latter in RMW’s demo reel.

Wazzles said:

Fang Zei said:

If memory serves, the stuff everyone was looking forward to about the blu-ray bonus discs (deleted scenes, vintage docs) were very OT-centric, and this is back when George was still in charge!

That’s partly because the special features for the PT in the Complete Saga set are horrible. There is so many good features in the DVD releases it’s a damn shame they didn’t bring them over for the BD.

Enough time has passed now that they could just throw in all the PT dvd extras as “vintage docs.”

I could certainly see the appeal in “the beginning” being made available in a form other than a used TPM dvd or an unauthorized youtube upload.

Mike O said:

Fang Zei said:

Handman said:

At that point, why not just have a box set of I-VIII with a spot reserved for IX?

Other than “because by that point many fans will probably already have bought TFA and TLJ”?

Not to mention the slippery slope of “do they stick to the main saga or do they throw in Rogue One and Han Solo as well?”

If the remaster is done correctly, I’d pay damn-near any price for the OUT, even if it’s in a big giant boxed set of other stuff.

I actually wonder if we’ll ever see the respective trilogies released on their own again.

Lucasfilm clearly realizes the prequels aren’t held in the same regard as the classic originals. We may very well see a repeat of what happened with the 2011 set, where you have to buy the whole thing just to get the extra bonus discs you want.

If memory serves, the stuff everyone was looking forward to about the blu-ray bonus discs (deleted scenes, vintage docs) were very OT-centric, and this is back when George was still in charge!

I’d love to see the numbers on how the PT and OT sets sold on their own.

Now that Disney will fully own I-VI, there’s no longer any point in waiting until 2020 to put out new content.

Now it’s just a question of what they would include in a new set (other than the very obvious choice of a restored OOT and maybe the Holiday Special), how long it would take, how much all the work would cost them, and when the best time to release it would be.

Handman said:

At that point, why not just have a box set of I-VIII with a spot reserved for IX?

Other than “because by that point many fans will probably already have bought TFA and TLJ”?

Not to mention the slippery slope of “do they stick to the main saga or do they throw in Rogue One and Han Solo as well?”

In retrospect, it’s almost like George was intentionally keeping this 4k transfer in his back pocket for later, since he was apparently talking to Iger about selling the company as early as May of 2011, several months before the blu’s streeted.

With Han Solo likely hitting blu-ray in September of next year (barring the movie getting pushed back to December, but I find that unlikely at this point), I could easily see them putting out an actual new release of I-VI on blu/4k by November/December of 2018.

But, as always, who really knows?

rodneyfaile said:

I watched the red carpet event for The Last Jedi. I was surprised George Lucas wan’t there. If he did attend, he wasn’t interviewed. He was at The Force Awakens event. I hate that he is getting more distant from the franchise. If they do release the Originals, then he would probably disappear entirely.

What would be really cool is if LFL brought him in to put together that “film school in a box” he supposedly always wanted for a home release of I-VI. I’ve never gone through the 2011 set, but it’s my understanding that it isn’t the grand concept George talked about.

The UHD release would be a perfect time to do it, and would add value to yet another re-release of the films.

Obviously I’d want them to include the restored unaltereds (and the ‘97 versions and theatrical prequels for History’s sake) in addition to George’s preferred version.

Just so long as his versions are considered the “official” versions of the movies, I guarantee you George wouldn’t care one bit about a restored OOT being available.

Like CHEWBAKAspelledwrong just said, he (technically) put them out on dvd himself in ‘06.