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Fang Zei

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14-Oct-2006
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4-Nov-2025
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Post
#264550
Topic
Will you buy the OOT again ?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/264550/action/topic#264550
Time
Another thought just came to mind. I'm assuming the 9/12 release was a fresh new pressing of the '04 discs, yes? The only "new" thing was the bonus OUT discs, yes? Lucas spent no money at all on this dvd production besides simply stamping out the discs, plastic cases and paper inserts. He did spend quite a bit, it would seem, on advertising. Perhaps he really just wanted to make some more money for 2006 that badly. The claim was that it was for people who didn't care which version they watched. If that's true then why is the original presented in inferior quality? 75,000 people can't be wrong. I'm glad that apparently many of you voted with your wallets. But sorry, I already have the '04 discs and I'm not paying $60 for non-anamorphic transfers of the originals. It's actually quite touching to know that people care about the originals enough to lay down money for it, even though it's bonus content to the '04 versions and it won't look good on widescreen displays.

I recall hearing that Lucas seemed quite annoyed in some interview (mtv I think) that many, many people don't like the SE and prefer the originals. My response to him would have been "Well, gee, you think people are going to like it when you screw around with a classic movie that they love?!" Now, I come back to my point about the 75,000 sigs. Let's face it, the 9/12 release is not what those sigs were asking for. Even LFL, at the end of the day, sold it as "the Star Wars films available individually for the first time." It was to get another buck out of us, the only difference is that he knew beyond a shadow of doubt that there was a huge demand for the original versions, and he dumped an age old transfer on us just so he wouldn't have to spend any money because he knew we'd buy it anyway. That's called extortion.

Nevertheless, if there are only 75,000 of us that want the remastered OOT that badly, perhaps Lucas really is saving it for the super expensive boxset so that he could make money off the 9/12 release and make even more from the comparitively handfull of people who will buy the expensive 30th anniversary set.

Anyone know how many actual copies the 9/12 releases have sold? Sorry to drag this on, but I really hope Lucas actually meant something by that "it'll all come out in the end" statement. If he doesn't get the picture in time for the next dvd release, he'll loose my money.
Post
#264481
Topic
Will you buy the OOT again ?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/264481/action/topic#264481
Time
That's what I've found interesting ever since talk started of a 30th anniversary "saga" boxset. The OT will be shat upon that much more by being lumped into Lucas's chronological place for them after the prequels. Granted, this has already happenned to an extent with the '04 boxse which was designed more or less with the same packaging design as the prequels, but even then there was at least a classic design motif for the actual box, not to mention the docs and commentaries. That's what's so wierd about the '04 set and the SE in general. It's always had this strange feeling of honoring or looking back to the original films without actually presenting them, giving us the latest revision instead. I thought to myself the other day that if we actually do get our wish and the OOT is remastered, film professors and students alike will find the revision and preservation on Lucas and the fans' parts, respectively, to be a worthy and interesting subject to discuss.

In a perfect world, the prequels would still not be included in this '07 boxset and it would include only the remastered OOT in anamorphic video and 5.1 audio. What WB did with the Batman movies in their latest release I find interesting. The '89-'97 movies were given new transfers and made available for sale both individually and in a boxset. Batman Begins was not included and was sold seperately even though it was being released on dvd at about the same time. The Superman Boxsets are a whole nother story. There was the Christopher Reeve collection that had the four movies that were also available individually (ala the Batman boxset), and there was also the "Ultimate" boxset that had all of that plus Superman II: Donner Cut, Superman Returns and more. Even then, the Superman Ultimate set is a different story than what the '07 Star Wars set will probably turn out to be. Batman Begins was omitted from any larger collection because it's intented as a reboot whereas Superman Returns is a sequel and very much meant to be grouped with the other Superman movies and therefore included in the boxset along with the others. But ever since the thought of a "saga" boxset entered my mind I just couldn't see it in an non-wierd way. The "saga order" would be the only way to watch it, and I suppose by the time it's released Lucas won't care at all about the movies' original context and it'll simply be The Star Wars Saga (2007) and not The Phantom Menace ('99/'01), Attack of the Clones ('02), Revenge of the Sith ('05) etc.

An optimistic view is that the 9/12 release really was a "testing the waters" and Lucasfilm will have the remastered OOT all ready to go this year now that they know people want it. Maybe LFL really is that fucking clueless and needed dollar sign proof, but I find it hard to believe. They probably just want us to hate them that badly. What would be the respectable thing to do? Give the OOT Criterion-level treatment with extras related to those films and not the prequels or anything else. Any further speculation from me is pointless until some sort of ot,fficial announcement is made.
Post
#263899
Topic
10 years of the Special Editions
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263899/action/topic#263899
Time
The first time I got the news about anything at all related to the SE's was november of '96. The 22nd, I think. I'd just seen Star Trek: First Contact (it was opening night) while my mother and sister had seen Jingle All The Way. Now that's a night I'll never forget, mostly because the whole audience for ST: FC cheered when the movie ended, and this wasn't even a midnight screening! My, how times have changed. I met up with my mother and sister afterwards. One of the first things they told me was that they'd seen a trailer announcing something along the lines of "starting New Year's Day, the Star Wars films will be shown in theatres for a limited engagement." This completely took me by surprise, having heard nothing whatsoever pertaining to a re-release of the films. The only thing I'd read had been nearly 3 years earlier on the cover of the first issue of some science fiction magazine, proclaiming "3 years until the next Star Wars Trilogy" against some stock photo of the Millennium Falcon. Years later, this year to be precise, I would find out all about LFL's rearrangment of the SE/Episode I release schedule. I think she also mentioned the part about the altered fx, thx and "new surprises." At some point I saw a commercial for it on tv. I saw Star Wars the weekend it was released, Empire with my mother and Jedi on its release weekend. I'm almost certain that the SE trailer archived on the '04 bonus disc must be the trailer they saw. "President's Day Weekend," so my mom remembered wrongly.

Looking back on it all now, I did get a little too caught up in the trilogy's return to the big screen to step back and think of what was really happenning. Because I was young, only 11, and stupid, the thought that these were inferior to the original versions never really crossed my mind. I didn't really care either way about the changes, at least not immediately. One of my bigger regrets has been not picking up the '95 vhs set back then when there were still a few lying around in the stores. I've since collected all three, but the Empire tape is shot (see one of the poll threads for that story).

In '97, Star Wars went from being this classic movie trilogy to being something that needed to be brought back and capitalized on, complete with fast food tie-ins. Whatever happenned to the days when the scifi channel would show empire and jedi letterboxed during thanksgiving weekend? I don't remember if they did it during thanksgiving of '96 or not, since the SE was right around the corner, but in any event '97 was when Star Wars stopped feeling classic and started to feel painfully modernized. The trailer for Episode I in november of '98 was perhaps the last bit of real genuine excitement for many Star Wars fans, mainly due to that classic John Williams music. Still, even then it hit me. When I saw that revamped LFL logo at the head of the trailer, I realized what the SE had been for.
Post
#261068
Topic
ANH screening with modelmaker Lorne Peterson...WHY ARE THEY SCREENING THE SE??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261068/action/topic#261068
Time
Those are my thoughts as well. There is a signifigant amount of people who want the OOT restored, yes, but as this September's sales numbers indicated, there are not that many people aware that they got gyped. It would make sense, if Lucas actually is going to restore it this time, to make us pay a lot of money for it.
Post
#261061
Topic
ANH screening with modelmaker Lorne Peterson...WHY ARE THEY SCREENING THE SE??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261061/action/topic#261061
Time
Originally posted by: JediRandy
Wow... earlier 80% of the models were deleted now "all of the optical effects have either been recomposited digitally or deleted altogether."


How does one contradict the other?

One is talking about shots that feature the models in any way. Many of the shots that were originally models are now entirely cg. That's where the 80% figure comes from and that wasn't even something I myself said. The latter statement that you quoted was said by me, and yes, if you look at THE OFFICIAL WEBSITE's shot by shot comparisons, you'll see that I am correct.
Post
#261055
Topic
ANH screening with modelmaker Lorne Peterson...WHY ARE THEY SCREENING THE SE??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261055/action/topic#261055
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Maybe Lorne Peterson doesn't see digital enhancement as an insult to modelmakers.

Maybe he is mature enough to realize that it's just another tool to make movie magic with, and doesn't concern himself with this idea that some effects are insulting to other kinds of effects.


Read my above post.
Post
#261047
Topic
ANH screening with modelmaker Lorne Peterson...WHY ARE THEY SCREENING THE SE??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261047/action/topic#261047
Time
Once again you find loopholes, Gomer and Randy. Not once did I say anything about the usage of models in the PT, so nice job trying to distract me. You are also making a very broad statement by saying Peterson's work is "still there." Some of it is still there, but not all of it. Had this been a book talking about optical effects, there's no way the person writing it would stand for something like this screening as all of the optical effects have either been recomposited digitally or deleted altogether. Randy, if you re-read my post you'll find that I am arguing for the versions that George had made and put out in theaters from the late 70's to the early 80's to be given the treatment they deserve. When I say "deserve," I mean for the sake of history and posterity. Yes, he is the creator of Star Wars but he is also the financier. Other people helped him to create the movies. I just don't understand why you feel the need to defend his ownership of it. It's not like we want to change it, we just want it as it was.....as it was for 14 whole years. Lucas's statement about us falling in love with a half-finished film is just plain insulting. If what he said is true, why do so many of us not like what Lucas did for the SE? And again, I was never arguing against his "vision." He can change it all he wants as long as he gives the original versions the same respect.

Originally posted by: JediRandy
Still sounds like you think this movie is yours… which you ineffectively veiled by describing the accusation as a “drastic oversimplification.” Nevertheless, this fact can’t help itself from rearing its ugly head throughout this entire post.

By removing GL from the position of artist to simply the “financier” of the movies you’ve “cleverly” taken ownership from him and placed it somewhere else… which around here could be Kurtz, Kirshner, Marquand, Bracket, etc…it’s an attempt to make yourself sound like a champion for everyone else who worked on the movies… (who have now apparently has been ripped of by GL with the creation of the SE) This championing has even seeped into the fans themselves, who by purchasing tickets and plastic shaped like R2-D2 now own a part of these movies as well.

Only on a Star Wars message board can the creator of the movies themselves be turned into the guy who signed the checks.


If you choose to read things into it, that's your choice. It may sound that way to you but that's not what I was trying to say.

Also, your choice of words makes it sound as if those people you mentioned only care about money. Did it occur to you that maybe they were upset over the changes made to films they themselves helped to create?
Post
#260999
Topic
ANH screening with modelmaker Lorne Peterson...WHY ARE THEY SCREENING THE SE??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260999/action/topic#260999
Time
The topic of this thread becomes all the more interesting when you consider that ILM recently sold off their model division. What ever happenned to the George Lucas of the OT? The one who went out to change the industry and give other film makers a chance? The flipside of the coin is that Lucas always talks about how he just knew Star Wars was going to flop, but he was going to get his movies made. That's another huge root of the problem, to him it's all about him. There's just too much evidence here. The Empire Strikes Back had the least involvement from Lucas and yet it's considered every bit as good if not better than Star Wars, a film that's undeniably considered a classic. He took more control over Return of the Jedi, and while at least he got a director and put star wars to rest with the trilogy completed, it's clearly the beginning of so much hypocrisy in him. He complained that he didn't have enough money while he was directing Star Wars, and yet now that he's in the position of executive producer himself he's overly concerned with saving money. Whatever happenned to that energy he had on Star Wars and Empire? Tightly bookending the production of Jedi with Indiana Jones movies probably didn't help much, but again this is all about taking control of things. The real problem with that is, and this is a question I pose, can you go too far in the name of "having control over things?"

Some people have argued that our problem as O-OT fans is that we seek collective ownership of Star Wars, but this is a drastic oversimplification of the problem. We look at it as a work of art, an opinion obviously not shared by its financier who seems determined to make whatever changes he wants just so he can make things conveniently sync up with the movies he made from '97 to '05. This is not responsible film making, folks, not by any measure. What we seek to do is not to give ourselves "ownership" of the art that is the O-OT, it is to take away this "ownership" from the financier. If Lucas is making all of these changes 20 and then 27 years later, couldn't it be argued that Lucas obviously took no pride in his work just as easily as it could be argued that the changes are "good?" There's the shame factor, but I'm not even going into that since this is turning into a basher rant.

Dean Devlin, the producer of Independance Day, said in regards to visual effects that "it's not the tool, it's the craft." Lucas, by even thinking that alteration and deletion of the groundbreaking visual effects work in Star Wars was a good thing, seems to have forgotten that people fell in love with the craft, not the technology. Yes, the dykstraflex was an innovative and groundbreaking technology in '76, but the effects done for the SE are in no way groundbreaking. If Lucas is so proud of what he's done, why did he feel the need to alter the original films for "a whole new generation?" If Star Wars is the classic film that it is, why was Lucas so concerned with updating it? If he makes it a different movie (which even from a legal standpoint he did, just read the copyright info in the end credits), how can people also be experiencing it "again?"

"I fear that my children will not be able to experience the movies that I grew up with." Thanks George, we do also. Last time I checked, it was 2006, not 1996, and a good deal of people have widescreen displays. All movies that were shot in anything wider that 1.78:1 are expected, not hoped to be, but expected to be recieving an anamorphic video transfer. Even the worst movies recieve anamorphic video on dvd. Lucas, you've released the OOT on dvd, yes, but our reactions and indeed the changes made to the homepage should tell you it's clearly not what we were asking for at all. If I ever have a kid, and he or she needs to do nothing besides load a dvd into the tray, why should he or she have to do anything more than that just so the picture will properly fill up the screen and even then at only sub-par resolution? I sure hope that Lucas's own kids don't buy into this "the artist's work is never finished" crap, but a lot of things point to that being the case, unfortunately.

Peterson is good to be writing a book entirely about models, especially in this day and age of IL(M). It's just too bad that LFL sees this as an opportunity to screen the "classic movie that started it all with Peterson's models and is also part of George's vision." George can call that "respect" if he wishes, but he shouldn't deny everyone the actual accomplishment that the O-OT is. He can have things both ways as long as he follows through on the oh so simple request we've made, and he might as well go all out for 2007 and just make whatever changes he damn well pleases. I mean, jeez, it's his movie, right?
Post
#260930
Topic
ANH screening with modelmaker Lorne Peterson...WHY ARE THEY SCREENING THE SE??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260930/action/topic#260930
Time
A person doesn't give up directing for 22 years only to come back to it. Lucas's decisions since the mid-90's have been foolish. He'd been coasting on the success of Star Wars, but realized he had to revamp it to keep it all profitable. It's not like he needed to do the SE, the man was in the billion dollar range by then. At least he's given vast amounts of his money to some noble causes, but the irony is killing me.
Post
#260822
Topic
ANH screening with modelmaker Lorne Peterson...WHY ARE THEY SCREENING THE SE??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260822/action/topic#260822
Time
The prequels were one gigantic missed opportunity, plain and simple. Return of the Jedi was arguably the beginning of the end. Lucas started taking more control, he had no counter, but at least he got another director to make it. How could sitting in the director's chair after 22 years actually be a good thing? It was Star Wars, and I think at the end of the day Phantom Menace will hold a place in my memory for at least being that movie we'd been waiting sooooo long for, but didn't quite live up to the level of the original trilogy. Duel of the Fates showing up on the simpsons 7 years later shows just how well people remember it, but yes, it was the highest grossing prequel simply because it was the first and there is no denying that. TPM and ROTS are passable but it's that useless middle act that pulls everything down. When I saw AOTC with my friends on opening day, and granted I'd been spoiled to death on the story, we were laughing a lot because it was the only way to alleviate how bad it really was. My friend sitting next to me even quoted Anakin's "but the women...and the children too" a few seconds ahead of him saying it because it was that predictable. The action scenes were ok, but it was distracting beyond belief to hear Johnny Williams' music from TPM being blatantly re-used in the Geonosis arena. It really is hard to argue for Lucas's desire to see everything finished when he goes about it in a borderline irresponsible way. The Empire of Strikes Back went down in history as one of the greatest independant film productions because it was a collaboration, not some kind of auteurism from Lucas.

As for this argument that there are more photographic miniatures in the PT than in the OT, fine, I'm sure there could be but it's not the tool that matters, it's the craft. Maddox did have a good point, the effects cease to be special when they're used in every single shot of the fraggin' movie. Lucas has deleted some of Peterson's work from the OT while only keeping his stuff from the PT. Replacing opticals with cgi would be considered good if they didn't look like they were made 20 years after the shots that were left in.
Post
#260748
Topic
ANH screening with modelmaker Lorne Peterson...WHY ARE THEY SCREENING THE SE??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260748/action/topic#260748
Time
What was stopping him from leaving the original versions exactly as they were and not changing a thing? What was stopping him from preserving the film history he so wanted to see preserved for his children? While he was at it, maybe he also could've made the prequels to fit the originals and not changed the originals to fit the prequels.

By all accounts, the visual effects of the original Star Wars Trilogy were astounding when they were seen on the big screen from 1977 to 1983, where even the slightest "error" has to hold up to the highest scrutiny. By my own account, they were astounding even on pan n' scan vhs in the early 90's. They look even better in their original aspect ratio, and they would look many, many times better if a new master of the original versions could be sourced from actual film elements and transferred to video at the highest quality dvd can offer.
Post
#260746
Topic
MTV Interview and New Favorite Movie
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260746/action/topic#260746
Time
At the end of the day, isn't ownership the only thing stopping these prints and negatives from seeing the light (if they still exist at all)?

I'm assuming that for any given movie, there is only one "camera negative" copy of it that could possibly exist. Anything else would have to have been made from the original negative. Therefore, the original negatives of the Star Wars films don't exist because of the changes made to them for the SE, as long as everyone has their stories straight.

That MTV interview quote from Lucas means a lot. He said it, it's out there and we can hold him to his word. Heh, now he'll see what we want. Yes, because this website didn't exist until he gave the go ahead....
Post
#260710
Topic
ANH screening with modelmaker Lorne Peterson...WHY ARE THEY SCREENING THE SE??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260710/action/topic#260710
Time
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Now, granted, we don't have the OU of Close Encounters on dvd, but that's something I'm willing to let slide because while the original was released in '77, the special edition was a mere 3 years later and the newer effects don't exactly scream "3 years later"

So, it's ok to be revisionist if it's within a certain time frame? I call shenanigans on that!

At least a reasonable facsimile of Star Wars '77 was released on DVD in some format. CE3K'77 has never been released in any home video format ... and Spielberg is far worse the villain than Lucas for that (in my book).



.


One big difference is that Columbia Pictures pretty much forced the whole SE deal on Spielberg with CE3K. And remember, if Lucas had his way we probably wouldn't have gotten the OOT at all, even in the crappy non-anamorphic state it's in now. That was Jim Ward's idea, and I can't really say it was the best one given the way he went about it.

In regards to the EoD doc, it's a different kind of documentary than we see on the LOTR extended edition discs. I still haven't seen the new extended Kong dvd. EoD was very much intended as "the story you've never heard," or at least that's how they hyped it before the dvd release. Maybe that's one reason why Lucas doesn't personally point out the contributions of others, but on the other hand this is the GL of 2004 talking, the one whose grown detached, not the GL of '77-'83. It's the whole "little engine that could" philosophy behind EoD that makes it more of a historical retrospective than, let's say, the LOTR docs.

Post
#260687
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260687/action/topic#260687
Time
I think Maul was always intended to be "Episode I's villain." Each movie's gotta have one. In the original it's vague, the empire as a whole but also Tarkin and Vader. In Empire it's Boba Fett and Jedi's got Jabba and the Emperor. AOTC had Jango and in Revenge you have Greivous. Maul was a cool character in concept but ultimately the only thing cool about him was his fighting skills.

A friend of mine expressed the same sentiment as you, get. He would've liked to see Maul in a continuing role beyond Episode I and was actually pissed when Obi-Wan killed him. I thought the storyline for Episode I was good in that it centered around the invasion of a planet, one that we've never seen before. It was dissapointing to find that Anakin was from the same frickin' planet as Luke (it was bad enough that we went back there in ROTJ), and while it was nice to see Coruscant, that too was a planet we'd already heard of and seen (in the ROTJ SE). And then what do they do? They go back to the same three planets again in Episode II! That's what frustrates me the most about that movie. Kamino and Geonosis were the only interesting parts. Luckily Episode III stayed the hell away from Tatooine and Naboo until the very end, and even then it was very brief. I think Lucas kept to his original plan for the PT but changed a whole bunch of things along the way. Intercutting a lightsaber duel with another lightsaber duel was a first for the saga, but again, too much coruscant. One defining thing about the OT was that the only location we saw in all three movies was the interior of the millenium falcon. In the PT it's like this entire galaxy far, far away is confined to the senate chamber and palpatine's office. What gives?

I remember hearing ideas for the movies, some of which I'm pretty sure were confirmed facts, that never ended up happening. Episode III in particular, Anakin was supposed to gradually collect pieces that would become his Vader armor. That didn't happen. "The duel" was supposed to go on for quite a while, and maybe it does, but the merits of intercutting it with the yoda/sidious duel is anyone's guess. Mustafar and Utapau were fun to see realized on film.
Post
#260676
Topic
Mark Hamill V/O on Star Wars Novel Advert
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260676/action/topic#260676
Time
I also saw this recently. I also remember seeing it on tv way back when and thinking a few things. Firstly, of course, is how cool it was that they got Mark Hamill to do voice over. Secondly was how odd it was seeing footage from the OT when I knew that the NJO would bring us a vastly different enemy with purely organic technology, etc. Thirdly was how they used the sith theme from ROTJ, when this was not going to be the sith they were facing in these books (but that music is still great and fits the epic tone of how the NJO was promised). And lastly, well, it was a tv commercial for a Star Wars novel! How often do you see those?! The only ones I can remember were for The Hutt Gambit and Rebel Dawn a year earlier.

Yea, I bought into the hype. The big heavy of the novel (I won't spoil it, just in case) actually made the Style section of The Washington Post. I got the hardback and finished it, read onslaught and then skipped ahead to balance point when it was printed in paperback. I just couldn't get into the story, and I figure that not having read any of the post-ROTJ EU (with the exception of Heir to the Empire) might've been the reason. Later on I heard about how the latter part of the NJO transpired, and it honestly sounded pretty cool. I read Rogue Planet as soon as it came out and I definitely caught a little reference to the Yuuzhan Vong, so when that planet ended up becoming an integral part of the NJO story it was neat to see the prequel and sequel eras connected. There's even more of that going on now in the Legacy of the Force series, from what I've heard, what with Boba Fett and Taun We showing up.

oh yea, was this commercial not aired until 2000? the book was published in October/November of '99.
Post
#260671
Topic
ANH screening with modelmaker Lorne Peterson...WHY ARE THEY SCREENING THE SE??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260671/action/topic#260671
Time
What probably annoys me the most is that you don't see other classic movies getting altered when a sequel/prequel/whatever comes along 20 years later, and if they are, you don't see the original version getting the shaft. Even with the dvd of Star Trek: The Motion Picture they went through the trouble of including everything that was deleted in the process of "enhancing" the effects. The only other time I've heard of something like that was the Close Encounters laserdisk, and that was on these boards! Now, granted, we don't have the OU of Close Encounters on dvd, but that's something I'm willing to let slide because while the original was released in '77, the special edition was a mere 3 years later and the newer effects don't exactly scream "3 years later," whatever that would mean. I don't think there's anything from post-1980 in terms of effects in the director's cut dvd, although obviously the cut of the movie is different. Look at Star Wars, they put back the Biggs scene at the end. For all we know, that could've been in an earlier edit of the movie exactly as it is in the SE. Something tells me we wouldn't have had a problem with that scene back in there, although admittedly that scene would've made a lot more sense if they'd have put back the Tatooine scenes. A director's cut is one thing, but what Lucas has been doing can only be called revisionism and what's worst is that he's doing it to movies simply because they're legally his. Tell me just how his altering of Richard Marquand et al's movie is any different than the altering of the Three Stooges's movies that he so vehemently spoke out against. It's hypocrisy. Lucas paid for the movie, wrote the story, etc. That doesn't give him the right to change things, but all I keep hearing is the apologetic "he can, so he should."
Post
#260563
Topic
Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260563/action/topic#260563
Time
Originally posted by: Guy Caballero
Even in 1983 there was still a guild hassle about opening credits? Geez, when did they stop with that? Other movies from that era also had no opening credits (Tron, 1941, even Godfather and West Side Story didn't either, and that was before) how did they handle it?

Something I've wondered myself, as this still happens today.

Originally posted by: zombie84
As for Marquand, his being british had nothing to do with guild trouble--theres plenty of american directors who aren't part of the DGA, for example Irvin Kershner. Kershner didn't want to do ROTJ anyway because he resented Lucas and Lucas never asked him because he resented Kirshner. Lucas was forced to use non-union directors because he chose to not comply with union rules by including head credits, which really is not an unreasonable demand from the union. Of course, they socked it to him with a ridiculous fine (i guess because they felt that Lucas had made so much money without proper credit sequence to the cast and crew who made it all possible--again, probably bad for the film but really not too unreasonable a dispute from the union's perspective, whose job is to protect its workers with things like proper credit).



True, and Lynch and Cronenberg passing on the project was probably due more to them wanting to try other things. I remember reading somewhere that Lynch didn't want to have to play in someone else's universe, or something like that.
Post
#260548
Topic
Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260548/action/topic#260548
Time
Yea I remember now, on the Leonard Maltin interviews he says he might direct one of the prequels but will probably get other people to do the others. I would've been happier to see him out of the director's chair completely and make for a more aesthetically pleasing saga with only episode IV under his direction. Of course, the interview was a couple years before the SE's were released (although they are mentioned in the interview) and that was really the ditch Lucas dug for himself and the OT.

CO, now that you mention it, TPM was arguably the dirt he used to bury it.
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#260535
Topic
Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260535/action/topic#260535
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According to Empire of Dreams, Lucas had no choice but to get a non-American director for Return of the Jedi due to his departure from the Director's Guild of America. They had excessively fined him for The Empire Strikes Back's absence of any opening credits, and because he didn't want Irvin Kershner paying those DGA fines himself, he covered for him. He knew it would only happen again if he got an American to make ROTJ, and was so impressed by "Eye of the Needle" that he asked Marquand to direct.

Now that I think about it, Lucas's departure from the DGA might have a lot to do with why he decided to direct the prequels himself.
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#260532
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260532/action/topic#260532
Time
ok, so I've got a few random questions:

1. People keep saying that Lucas had all of the film copies of the originals recalled and destroyed. Did Lucas himself ever say that or is it merely speculation that turned into rumor?

2. For the YCM restoration, existing positive elements had to be used to replace pieces of neg that had been severely damaged beyond any hope of restoration. Just where did those positive elements come from and what exact form were they in (35mm? 70mm? etc)? Also, what form is the original negative in?

3. If certain bits and pieces of what we're seeing in the 2004 dvd are from a positive and not the original negative, what hope does this give us for possibly seeing an OOT release that is mastered from a positive?

While I'm at it, I'm going to throw in a quote from Kevin Burns at one of the press junkets for the 2004 dvd. Burns was responsible for the "Empire of Dreams: The Story of the Star Wars Trilogy" documentary. Anyway, here's the quote:

"just a brief mention at the end (of the documentary)...we certainly acknowledged the special editions and how George went back....you really see it was a series of compromises in making the first movie...things he saw in his head that he couldn't realize given the budget and limited amount of time....the special edition and the dvd comes closest because-again-the artist's work is never finished....as the technology runs apace, and GL has invented most of the technology that has been responsible for these SE's....the technology has come close to but still not matched his vision for what he wanted the planets and the spaceships and the battle scenes to look like...it was important for us to put audiences back in that theater seat in 1977....we did get papal dispensation to use footage from the pre-SE release...you see the opening title sequence as it looked in 1977....that was exciting for us because it does bring you back..."

and this is what I really wanted to highlight:

"I will say what was shocking-and this speaks to the whole issue of the restoration- those brief scenes that we used from the pre-SE, in our mind's eye they looked a lot better than they do when you go back and revisit them and you do see how the qualityof the print, the quality of the negative really doesn't hold up the way you think it might....so you kind of understand why things have been revised and digitally restored."

Has there been any speculation on where Burns was getting the footage from? Was it a print, a negative or something else entirely?

Since the doc itself is 16:9 enhanced, has anyone been able to figure out whether or not it's from the same master tapes used to make the GOUT?

Most importantly, do you think that when Burns says "quality" that he simply means the age of the special effects and not the actual quality of the print/negative itself? LFL's official statement was that they are in "bad condition." Is anyone willing to bet it's nothing that couldn't be restored with today's technology?
Post
#260522
Topic
Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260522/action/topic#260522
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
He is only against people other than the creator's altering the 3 Stooges.

If they were around and wanted to colorize it themselves, he wouldn't have any problem with it.

Oh, you mean just like we're against Lucas for altering the originals just because he produced them and directed one of them? Your argument is null anyway, Gomer, and here's why. Whenever someone works on a movie in any capacity, they expect to be recognized for their work that ends up on screen. When Lucas in his infinite wisdom replaced Latpi Nek with Jedi Rocks, he also removed Annie Arbogast from the credits because her work had now been erased. In an even sloppier move, he deleted Clive Revill from The Empire Strikes Back and neglected to alter the end credits to reflect this. At least he had the sense to stamp "1997" and "2004" on the special edition and dvd releases, respectively. That way, people watching it in the future will know that it is not the original movies they are watching, but an alteration of the originals. This is why it's more important than ever that we get a truly archival release with both the original and altered versions both in good quality.

I really hope those rumors about Lucas altering the movies just so his ex-wife wouldn't get any more royalties aren't true, because if they are it means George really is the bad guy a lot of us have made him out to be.

Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
He’s speaking out against the movie COMPANY posthumously altering the 3 Stooges material… last I checked Luca$ isn’t dead (contrary to some fans wishes) and Fox isn’t inserting Jar Jar into the cantina scene.

COLOSSAL difference…if the 3 stooges were alive and wanted to reshoot a scene, I'm betting GL wouldn't give a shit....


That's the difference you can't seem to grasp.


The difference you can't seem to grasp is that, first of all, the three stooges would want their work to be remembered, oh I dunno, as it actually was when they made it and everyone saw it and fell in love with it!!!! They would be self-respecting and not stoop to the level that GL has. How is GL not posthumously altering, for example, Richard Marquand's work? Did he just sit down and make the entire trilogy all by himself? He is the COMPANY!