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Fang Zei

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14-Oct-2006
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30-Jun-2025
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Post
#269698
Topic
The OT on HBO HD this month, unfortunately it is the SE
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/269698/action/topic#269698
Time
LFL would have to somehow justify the 9/12 release in order for any remastered OOT release to seem logical, zombie. A good number of copies were sold of that release, yes? Even the people with HD tv's picked them up. They're going to be quite pissed when they find out an actual 16:9 transfer has been released, if that even happens. Lucas now has a choice between sticking behind his vision for "his" movies or giving into moneymaking. Maybe my mind just isn't open enough, but what I see happenning is a 6 disc saga boxset, unless LFL wants to go all out and please all of the fans, in that case they'll release it along with a pristine looking OOT. All I'm saying is that LFL releasing it the very year after they scammed us with the 9/12 release wouldn't make much sense to me.

LFL released the OT in 2004 because they wanted as many dvd players out there as possible. LFL released the OOT laserdisc onto dvd in 2006 because they didn't want to wait until there were a lot of widescreen tv's out there, they wanted to make an easy dollar.

As for the uphill battle, I can't say I really care about seeing the OOT in HD although I don't see why LFL wouldn't do an HD master before making a new dvd. No, that wouldn't stop them from holding back an HD release for years and years and years, but all any of us really wants is for it to at least look the best it can on regular ol' dvd.
Post
#269633
Topic
"Archiving seminar reveals 'Star Wars' tidbit?" Another SE?!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/269633/action/topic#269633
Time
My thoughts exactly

I'd have to look at the numbers to see how things have sold over the years, so let me just say something about the '04 dvd. Many people, myself included, were just so distracted by all the bells and whistles and just the sheer fact that the movies were finally on dvd at all (after the first two prequels had already been released on the format) that we just didn't care about its not being the original version. Now, not everyone shared this sentiment. Chud.com didn't even bother to review the boxset and a reader wrote the site's founder, Nick Nunziata, to ask why. Nick replied in his mailbag column with something along the lines of "oh, yea, it's been a while since I've seen those movies, so maybe I'll give them a watch."

He didn't write a review simply because it was the SE, and this is coming from a guy whose website reviews just about every dvd that gets released.

It goes without saying then that the Limited Editions were also not reviewed by the site. People have become turned off to Star Wars because it's just not worth it. They can't just be movies anymore. They have to be, as I overheard someone in one of my film classes put it, "a way of life."
Post
#269627
Topic
Will you buy the OOT again ?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/269627/action/topic#269627
Time
Originally posted by: Mike O
Originally posted by: Fang Zei
The real kicker is going to be the explanation LFL comes up with for why the 9/12 release wasn't what it should've been. Not that films don't get double dipped all the time, but there's bad anamorphic quality and then there's laserdisc quality. It took Universal a good eight years to release an anamorphic dvd of David Lynch's "Dune," but it did happen. Yesterday I was watching Criterion's double dip of Seven Samurai which I rented from Video Americain (it turned out they were having a "rent 3, rent 1 free" thing, so my friend payed for 2 of them). I remember renting the old dvd years ago and how grainy it looked. The newer dvd is quite impressive, smooth, crystal clear. And this was made from a dupe negative!!! It really gets me excited with what would be possible for the OOT on dvd, given the proper treatment.

This is not "Conan the Destroyer" we're talking about here, it's Star Wars.


Yes, but will Lucas allow it? That's the problem.


All it raises is questions, and at the end of the day all I have left is the idea that maybe the Marcia lawsuit story is true.

I finally saw the GOUT dvd of ROTJ earlier tonight at a friend's place. No, I still haven't seen the discs for Star Wars and Empire, but watching Jedi brought back some good memories. During Lapti Nek, this girl we were watching it with said that she loved the scene simply because it looked real and fake at the same time. No, I didn't bother to say a single thing on top of that. I just smiled a geniune smile.
Post
#269599
Topic
any news on the OOT ?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/269599/action/topic#269599
Time
It would be negative only because it's been built up ever since the non-anamorphic news broke back in May. The problem is that it's all been built up on the assumption that the limited edition was a scam (which it pretty much was, no matter how optimistically you look at it).

Call me spoiled, but I like watching stuff on my computer at full resolution and 4:3 letterbox becomes a lot more noticeable under that particular method of viewing. On 4:3 television I guess it's all the same, and it probably would look so to me, once I'd gotten past the very video, nonfilmlike look of it, which is pretty much how Conan the Destroyer looks. I don't have a 16:9 tv, but a friend of mine lost the remote to his and as a result we had to watch Judge Dredd all stretched out because he needed the remote just so he could press "zoom." Anamorphic video is nice because you can have it either way.
Post
#269576
Topic
its not true is it ? (re George writing the Prequels)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/269576/action/topic#269576
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84
Around 1975 or 1976, he wrote down the character histories that exist mentally in every writers head. This resulted in a note collection of about "8 or 9 pages", in his words, which contained character sketches and background details, such as the formation of the empire and fall of the republic, the nature of the jedi, the broad history of people like obi wan and palpatine. Some of this found its way into the prologue of the novelisation in 1976, which, if you read, gives a pretty approximate parallel to the political-based plot of the PT.

So, in a sense, yes he sorta did, but in a larger sense, not really. He didn't plan it to be a series or ever shown on film, and it was vague and nothing special, the same background development that stems from any reasonably-complex story, and many of the pivotal prequel details (ie Darth Sidious, Anakin becoming Vader, Yoda, etc.) were absent and not added until ESB and ROTJ era.


That's what's neat about the sequels. As the story progresses you find out more of the backstory. This even continued into the Timothy Zahn novels, although I haven't gotten around to reading all of the thrawn trilogy yet. It's cool that they kept coming back to him for novels even during the prequel era, because not only does that solidify his first SW novels as canon, it brings them even more to the forefront. That's the gift and the curse of the EU. It's not that it "didn't happen" if something like Darth Maul's Exar Kun saber shows up in one of Lucas's movies. It's just that it's suddenly not as important because the movies are the movies and the books are the books, at least that's how one of my older friends put it.
Post
#269570
Topic
"Archiving seminar reveals 'Star Wars' tidbit?" Another SE?!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/269570/action/topic#269570
Time
Originally posted by: MagnoliaFan
100 shots is only probably a handful of scenes per film.
I think what he witnessed was them beginning to remaster the deleted scenes for a future OT dvd release, ala the prequel discs.
It doesn't necessarily have to be scenes going back into the film.


That was one of the first things to cross my mind upon reading the article. After all, deleted scenes were conspicuously absent from the '04 set.

In regards to the OOT, the other day I was reading the wiki entry for the film Fantasia. It turns out that because there've been so many different versions released since 1940, Disney didn't have an actual complete usable master of the original version when the film's 60th anniversary rolled around back in 2000. So guess what they did. They reconstructed it as best they could. Not only does Disney not need to "Special Edition" their movies, they actually go through this kind of trouble to present things as they really looked. Lucasfilm only has a mere handful of movies to its name and, let's face it, nothing besides Star Wars can compare for popularity. Indiana Jones is either close or still far behind somewhere in second place. Just the other week I was talking with my mother on the phone and she mentioned some journal published a list of the wealthiest people and next to each person's name was what their business was. She found it amusing that next to Lucas's name it simply said "Star Wars."
Post
#269337
Topic
"Archiving seminar reveals 'Star Wars' tidbit?" Another SE?!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/269337/action/topic#269337
Time
What about this stuff from wookieepedia?:

# Mark Hamill's fall from Cloud City had to be re-shot after the film was damaged during processing.
# Mark Hamill did most of his own stunts in the film. The scene where Luke Skywalker falls from Cloud City onto the Millennium Falcon—which was later reshot due to film damage-caused an injury to Mark Hamill's wrist. Unfortunately, most of the footage—including Luke Skywalker's landing on the hull of the Millennium Falcon—was omitted from the final film.
Post
#269297
Topic
"Archiving seminar reveals 'Star Wars' tidbit?" Another SE?!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/269297/action/topic#269297
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
It seems most here are resolved to the opinion that Lucas is undoubtedly going to be making changes, therefore you might as well enjoy them. Well, I still wish he wouldn't and will still be upset when he undoubtedly decides to go through with it.

Just as long as we get the originals in good quality, I don't really care. In an absolutely ideal situation we'd also get TPM in its unaltered form. That would be nice if only because I actually saw the prequels multiple times on the big screen during their respective runs.

Originally posted by: zombie84
I have always heard this spoken of but i have never even seen official evidence that this happened. I really do believe it, but the only references to this event are the blurb on his IMDB page, which may be reprised at wikipedia or something. Is this referenced or even confirmed by anyone with authority or is this purely in the realm of unconfirmed-internet-fact?


If it's unconfirmed fact, you certainly have to wonder what it's doing on imdb! I have seen things get posted in trivia and then dissappear later on. For example, there was something on Star Trek VI's about Lawrence Konner and Mark Rosenthal having nothing to do with the script according to Leanard Nimoy but getting credited simply because they argued enough for it. I definitely read that somewhere, I'm pretty sure it was imdb, but it's not there anymore. Still, in Jedi's case, Alec Mills as cinematographer is still listed albeit as uncredited. The story must've started somewhere.

Another story just came to mind. What was the deal with the reshoot of Mark Hamill's fall from the Cloud City weathervane to Lando in the top hatch of the Falcon? Did they screw up the original camera negative during processing? That's what I read somewhere.

Originally posted by: oojason
cheers for the heads-up Jambe.

I remember Terence Stamp (who played Chancellor Valorum in Episode I) saying a few years ago that he was surprised how few of the scenes he filmed made it to the final cut of Ep1 - and that there were a lot more politically themed content that didn't make it either.

Perhaps if new scenes are being inserted into the OT, then there is a chance that maybe the PT will also have new or previously unseen shots inserted too...?


(the cynic in me thinks as it has been 8 years since the release of Ep1 Lucas must be itching to make a few changes )


Since LFL is pushing the "we're focusing on television" thing, I could stand to see the prequels filled out a little. I still havne't gotten around to reading the OT novelizations or the ROTS novelization for that matter, but the gap in content between movie and book seems to be much greater in the prequels than in the originals. Then again, I hear there's stuff in the ROTS movie that doesn't happen in the novel.

I still say all of this on the condition that GL releases all six movies in their original forms and in good quality. I wonder if he actually cut into the negative for TPM when he made the changes for the '01 dvd or if he just did it on the computer.
Post
#269266
Topic
"Archiving seminar reveals 'Star Wars' tidbit?" Another SE?!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/269266/action/topic#269266
Time
If we do get the OOT in remastered shape for this year, I actually hope GL just goes crazy with the latest SE version. Looking at it in an even broader perspective, it could put an interesting spin on the whole debate within the fandom, but I'll get to that in a moment.

The B-Wings' attack on a Star Destroyer during the Battle of Endor is something I've always wanted to see realized, ever since I first saw that production painting years ago. Speaking of production paintings, they dipped into that well a little with the "floating homes" around Cloud City in the ESB SE. Why not go all out and put all of Ralph McQuarrie's ideas in there? It would go a ways towards making the OT much more like the PT, at least in terms of the number of vfx shots. I think what's limiting that is the trickery of how to best cut entirely new shots into the existing edit of the film. In any event, we'll just have to wait and see.

Getting back to the more important subject that was raised by TipTup, the idea of the next SE release dissillusioning people to the realities of Lucas's revisionism, I think that's a good point because it seems the current SE isn't even being given a slap on the wrist by most people. It's all about "oh, it doesn't really change the story" and then when it arguably does change the story, i.e. Hayden in ROTJ, the justification is "oh, well, people will be seeing the movies 1-6 from now on." Let's nevermind that the dvd was released before ROTS, but I digress. Many people, myself included, were too distracted by the Lowry restoration, the extras of commentaries and docs to care that it wasn't the original version, and with GL's comments of "it doesn't exist to me any more" I didn't see any problem in picking it up. Perhaps it will take a really major story alteration of some sort in order for people to finally see the SE for what it really is. Like I said in an earlier post, it scares me that people someday might not even remember that these movies were originally shown in theatres and not on some HD channel.

More than anything I just want to see the OOT remastered, and I think many of you are onto something with the idea that this will further the cause. In addition, that "tip of the iceberg" statement in regards to the '04 dvd extras is a good sign. Alan Hume's falling out with the producers of ROTJ is just one of many subjects that could be covered in any future docs, and of course there's also a good number of archival stuff out there just waiting to be released. Maybe they should package all the archival stuff with the remastered OOT keeping it all criterion style and then do the "Saga/SE/2007 30th anniversary what have you" as a seperate release.
Post
#269241
Topic
"Archiving seminar reveals 'Star Wars' tidbit?" Another SE?!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/269241/action/topic#269241
Time
Frst USA Today confuses content with quality, then they get the date wrong. I'm curious to see what GL's got up his sleeve for the new dvd, assuming this guy at Sundance actually knew what he was talking about. For the moment I'll consider this to be the first leaked news we've gotten in months.

Zombie, I echo your sentiments. The "updating" of the fx is probably the biggest case against the SE ever having been made.
Post
#268874
Topic
Will you buy the OOT again ?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/268874/action/topic#268874
Time
The real kicker is going to be the explanation LFL comes up with for why the 9/12 release wasn't what it should've been. Not that films don't get double dipped all the time, but there's bad anamorphic quality and then there's laserdisc quality. It took Universal a good eight years to release an anamorphic dvd of David Lynch's "Dune," but it did happen. Yesterday I was watching Criterion's double dip of Seven Samurai which I rented from Video Americain (it turned out they were having a "rent 3, rent 1 free" thing, so my friend payed for 2 of them). I remember renting the old dvd years ago and how grainy it looked. The newer dvd is quite impressive, smooth, crystal clear. And this was made from a dupe negative!!! It really gets me excited with what would be possible for the OOT on dvd, given the proper treatment.

This is not "Conan the Destroyer" we're talking about here, it's Star Wars.
Post
#268785
Topic
Lost Prequel Ideas
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/268785/action/topic#268785
Time
It's funny how the last two things you listed actually were covered...just not in the movies. You've got to love how Lucas leaves the least interesting parts of the prequel era to the movies while simultaneously putting the best parts in the EU (translation: $$$$$$).

On the subject of previous backstories from the 70's, I seem to recall reading in one version of the opening crawl/prologue about Mace Windu and his master from such and such planet. Obviously Lucas changed it all around and retained only the character's name by the time he wrote TPM, but it's yet another planet name he could have used. Instead he kept going back to Tatooine and Coruscant for what seems like half of the entire trilogy. That's one major fault of the PT, Coruscant is like this HQ which the characters can fly back and forth between. That's BORING. TPM isn't quite as guilty of this, but it did spend a bit too much time on Tatooine. I remember feeling kind of dissapointed when I found out Anakin was from the same damn planet as Luke. I think it was on the OS sometime before the movie was released. Everything on Naboo and Coruscant works just fine, although again I wonder why the Jedi Temple was there and not on some other planet. Yes, I know it's all a part of their downfall as an Order, but it's yet another step towards making the universe feel very small and closed off.

As for AOTC, well, I don't really know where to start. This is where the PT starts to feel like a TV miniseries more than an actual trilogy of movies. It was only a gearing up for the Clone Wars, and the only good stuff is at the Battle of Geonosis. Besides that, it serves to set up Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru just so we know who they are at the end of ROTS. Speaking of which, on to that film.

My biggest problem was the ending, would've liked to have seen only the fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan for those ten minutes. Cutting away to Yoda and Palps was just an excuse to lessen the quality of both duels. Again, it's too much about Coruscant. I also remember hearing that Anakin would be collecting various pieces of the Vader armor throughout the film, too bad. The Vader armor just felt really tacked onto the ending of the movie. With the flip of the swithc we go from PT land to OT land.
Post
#267879
Topic
The end of Star Wars?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267879/action/topic#267879
Time
zombie, let me first express how much I sympathize regarding TFN. My handle over there is lawnmowerman603 and if you check my profile you'll notice I've racked up more than half as many posts in my first 4 months here as I did at TFN in the last 4 years!

In regards to the EU, I read pretty much all of the prequel era novels and with the exception of Shadows and Heir to the Empire I haven't read any other Star Wars novels before or since. Lately I've only been bothered to read the comics, with Dark Times and Legacy being the only ones I really care about. I haven't gotten around to reading the ROTS novelization or Dark Lord. One big thing I have noticed though, and I'll admit this is debatable, is that the EU authors even now seem to be more on our side. I can't tell you how thrilled I was to hear that Clone Wars material covered in the Thrawn Trilogy-books from way back in '91-was being directly addressed in the new Clone Wars EU.

"The Saga, George's Vision, etc." I don't think the EU authors really care about or even acknowledge that. To them, they're still back in '77 or whenever they first saw any of the movies and Star Wars still means to them now whatever it meant to them right after they first saw it. This is assuming of course that their first time seeing it was at least prior to '97 but I think that's a safe assumption to make. The only real problem, regardless of how cool they write and draw things, is that now they can't just pretend like the events of the actual prequels never happenned. It's this simple fact that gives rise to what a couple of my older friends were doing in their rewriting of the prequels, episode by episode. One of them is 28, his parents took him to see Empire when he was barely 1 and a half years old. The other one is in his late 30's, saw all three movies during their originals runs, and he told me stories about seeing ROTJ on the big screen and the whole audience throwing their hands up and cheering during the Millennium Falcon "Fighters, Coming In" POV shot because it actually felt like you were in the Millennium Falcon. Suffice it to say I'm jealous of them both. Anyway, my 28 year old friend told me about when he first saw TPM with some of his friends back in '99 and how incredibly dissapointed they all were. One big thing he pointed to was Darth Maul using a doublebladed lightsaber and how much that takes away from the signifigance of Exar Kun. He saw AOTC during some free time one day during the summer of '02 and actually uttered a verbal explitive, outraging some nearby theater patrons, upon seeing the Death Star plans show up towards the end. I didn't meet him until fall of '04 and all throughout spring of '05 he was calling me a "Warsy" despite my claim that such a term doesn't exist/doesn't even sound clever. He saw ROTS about a week or so after I did and his first comments to me were "Oh my God, Oh my God, it actually felt like Star Wars!" Several months later he'd refer to that comment as a false alarm and say he'd had more fun watching "The Aviator."

So, I think if I do go back to reading Star Wars novels I'll stick to stuff written before the prequels were made.

I know I keep coming back to the subject of why things went the way they did with the PT, but let me just say a few more things. While GL's desire to get back into the "director's chair" (if that's what he prefers to call it) was probably the big reason for not hiring directors, there's also a theory I have. The film industry and indeed the original fans of the OT have pretty much looked at it as the beginning, middle, and end of the story. I mean, even with the '04 dvds, they still had to give the box that "classic" design and call it "Star Wars Trilogy" despite the IV, V and VI along the other side. GL probably wouldn't have had much luck recruiting good directors because they themselves probably cared more about directing their own stuff and their own "vision" than they did about the possibility of getting to work on a Star Wars movie. The thought that there would be more of them, even if they were aware of the IV, V and VI numbering, probably just didn't cross their minds much. Sorry, I just don't buy GL's desire to get back in the director's chair as being the only reason for things going the way they did. I'm just theorizing of course, but I think it's good food for thought.

What was inevitable, I think, was GL at least being the one to write the PT's story. It's what he did on the OT and I don't see how it would'v been different for the PT. What could've gone differently was the screenplay and the direction, those really could've helped the prequels immensely, but the past is the past.

If it weren't for the SE, the prequels would be just prequels like they should be. But because Lucas now has to make the entire thing his own, we get "the saga." Even Star Trek, a franchise many here are comparing to the current state of Star Wars, never went any further than making the special effects better. Yes, we might still be just as pissed as we are now even if Lucas hadn't gone so far as to change the actual story of the OT, but I think this difference is crucial. You still have plenty of shots in the SE that are not visual effects shots. You have next to none in the PT. GL is really just a producer and an editor, he's not a director like he once was.

I wonder what will happen when GL's kids-or whomever-take over LFL. I feel almost snobbish saying that the people who watch the PT and the SE, of which there are quite a lot judging from how often I see the silver boxset lying around at people's places, aren't the real fans. It's not their fault, since GL pulled the worst double dip in history and like I just said, most people had already bought the silver box thinking the original versions were never getting released, as per GL's very words (and don't play that whole "well, he actually said it doesn't exist to him" game with me. It's mere semantics and you know it). And then I know people who are a little older who bought the '06 release out of love for the OOT. At least they have 4:3 television so it doesn't really matter, even though the picture quality is still total crap.

Here I go again, bringing it all back to the OOT. I still hold out just a little hope that GL/LFL will get off their asses and do something about all this, realize that the OOT isn't just some "historical document" that people would only want to watch out of nostalgia.
Post
#267519
Topic
Do you like the PT ?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267519/action/topic#267519
Time
Looking back on it all, I see this:

Star Wars '77 is a classic because the special effects aren't the whole frackin' movie. The same goes for the sequels but here's something I've noticed.

By all accounts, Lucas's only real involvement in Empire was writing the story and financing it. Ok, so then we get what's probably the greatest sequel of all time, but there's a price. Lucas realizes he doesn't just have some inexhaustable amount of money, so he cuts back on Return of the Jedi while also failing to make the best possible script. 16 years later he decides to sit down in the director's chair just so he can make the PT. Anyone think this might've been because he didn't feel like paying a director????
Post
#267165
Topic
Ep 3 death star !
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267165/action/topic#267165
Time
On the audio commentaries, Lucas says stuff like "it takes ten years to get through the (original) trilogy" and "the hand anakin gets at the end of AOTC is the one cut off by Luke at the end of ROTJ." We already know/knew those things aren't true, so his comment on death star is just as suspect. The DS's backstory was complicated enough even before AOTC. The only part I know is Tarkin stealing the idea from Sienar and presenting it to Palps at some point, but then comes AOTC to show that the Geonosians (of all people) were developing it. First off, there has to be some sort of backstory to the geonosians and the death star plans. I mean, the two things just don't go together unless you really start to stretch them. Tarkin's presence at the end of ROTS acknowledges his part of the backstory once again, so this thing with the geos is kinda wierd even if you just go by the movies and ignore the EU.
Post
#267160
Topic
Do you like the PT ?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267160/action/topic#267160
Time
Coulda sworn this has been brought up in almost the exact same way rather recently, but here ya go:

I walked out of the theater at the end of TPM feeling blown away by the lightsaber battle. Lucas wasn't bullshitting on that "The Beginning" documentary when we was telling the vfx people about the lightsaber battle needing to be even more exciting than the podrace. Speaking of the podrace, I don't remember that being terribly exciting at all. It has been 7 and a half years, but I don't remember anything on tatooine really doing anything for me. Probably the redundancy of going back there when we'd already been there in not one but two movies of the original three, that's what was getting to me. I liked how the whole movie was basically centered around naboo, this new planet we've never seen before.

But it was the only new planet we saw.

Yes, it's neat to see Coruscant expanded from just that one shot at the end of ROTJ's SE, and to find out how it's name is actually pronounced, but let's not forget that we didn't even get hung up on mentioning the names of planets in ANH and Empire. It was part of the lived in feel of those movies. Notice I don't mention Jedi. Well, that's because the battle at the end of TPM felt like a retread of Jedi's battle, there was no way I could get that comparison out of my head. This time it was a big land battle and a small space battle instead of the other way around.

I'd already finished about a third of the novelization before I saw the movie itself on opening day and somehow the writing didn't seem as hokey when I reminded myself that I was reading the novelization. Seeing it up on screen was a bit different I'm afraid. I did at least get the feeling of really stepping back to a time 30 years earlier in that galaxy far, far away. Maybe that's just because of how....different everything was. Yes, I know in retrospect it really wasn't different in the right ways, but I digress.

Another thing that's always been in the back of my head about the entire PT is the problem of making these movies so long after the originals. Heck, ROTJ was a little past its time, but TPM was 22 years past its time. Even forgetting that, I'd been hearing about these prequels in one way or another since '94, and the fact is that they just didn't deliver. All the many things I've pondered on recently just didn't come to mind back in '99, so to remove myself and remember how I felt back then is a little complicated now. Like I've said before, I've understood the notion of Lucas seeing only SE and PT since the day the TPM trailer was released. But those SE's didn't have an effect in every single shot, so even the SE's are still quite different from the PT. I still looked at TPM as the first new star wars movie in 16 years, SE or no SE. I mean, I was 13, almost 14 at the time, and I'd grown up on the original versions, not the SE's. To some up how I felt leaving the theater, I wouldn't say I was dissapointed, just underwhelmed.

It's funny, I've been going through my Star Trek movie dvds and thinking about the stretch of time from Star Wars in '77 to TPM in '99. I grew up on both Star Wars and Star Trek, but Star Trek was pretty much it for me at least until the trailer for TPM was released in fall of '98. Star Trek had started to show signs of suckage by that point anyway, and I'm sort of happy to say that the last of the movies I saw on the big screen was First Contact on opening night. It was probably one of the most memorable moviegoing experiences of my middle school years. I mean, the whole audience applauded at the end! Anyway, another reason I bring up Trek is ILM. They worked on all the movies 1-8 except for 5 and 1 (but even 1 had John Dykstra so it earns some points). 6 was one of the first movies I ever saw in a theater, and I saw 7 and 8 on the big screen as well. Let us not also forget Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock, movies ILM contributed to in the years before and after ROTJ, respectively.

So ILM fed our appetite for space adventure movies in the years between the Star Wars trilogies. Lucas and Spielberg must've really needed ILM for Last Crusade. Either that or Paramount didn't want them for Star Trek V. In any event, and this is the point that I'm really getting at, how many times did we hear about how much money Lucas was saving on TPM's effects budget just because he owns ILM? Yea, they found the time to work on other big movie projects during the PT, but there is the feeling that a lot of their work went to waste on what were not the best Star Wars stories that could've been told. Lucas simply relied on them too much instead of finding an interesting way to tell his story the way the makers of the OT did. I mean, break down for me the percentage of shots in the OT involving effects and then do the same for the PT. Not much more needs to be said on this.

The other thing to be addressed is the matter of "kidifying" Star Wars, something that ROTJ was first accused of. On the audio commentary for ROTJ, around one of the last scenes at Jabba's Palace, Lucas says that people tend to take Star Wars too seriously when it's really just Space Opera. No one's really arguing that point, they were arguing that ROTJ is all kidified but Lucas dodges the question by throwing something irrelevant in as an answer. Well, I went into TPM without any blinders on, and it seemed fairly kidified to me. The meal conversation scene was just awful and still is. The podrace had some impressive "ooo, wow, look how real that looks" moments, but besides that it did nothing for me. The lightsaber battle was the only real drama of the film's end.

Jumping ahead to AOTC, well, I already knew just about everything that was going to happen when I saw it with my friends on opening day, but that should never stop you from enjoying a movie.

I laughed through some of the more "important" parts.

That didn't stop me from seeing it several times that summer. Hey, what can I say, it's Star Wars.

By the time ROTS rolled around, I think I had somewhat of an idea of what the Harry Potter fans must feel like when they see the movies having already read the books (I haven't read any of the HP books). By that point, the EU had become a whole lot better than the movies and it just felt like Lucas was adapting from it and not the other way around. If not that, it definitely didn't feel any better than the EU which in turn was no where near as good as the OOT.

And notice how there's this huge public interest in TPM and ROTS and much less in AOTC. TPM because it was the first in 16 years and ROTS because it might've been the last and, more importantly, it was the prequel to the original movie from '77. That's why I'm happy to say that my last big screen viewing of ROTS was at the Uptown, the only theater in D.C. to show Star Wars on May 25, 1977.
Post
#266524
Topic
Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266524/action/topic#266524
Time
Something I brought up in an earlier post is that it's hard to compare the trilogies objectively. Some people argue that the originals weren't all that good in the first place, so this hubbub about the PT being a collossal dissapointment really isn't a big deal. "Excalibur in outer space" is how one of my friend's friends described it, and that's an interesting description considering this talk about watching it 1-6. Anyway, the other argument is that Star Wars was just fine and dandy until the SE came along. The thing I find interesting is that some people look at the OOT as something you'd only want to enjoy for nostalgiac purposes, which throws this very interesting paradox out there I think. Not only do some people prefer the prequels over the originals (SE or not), they literally believe all this bullshit about the OOT being a "work in progress, half finished movie." It's almost as if they feel that insecure about stepping outside the 1-6 bubble and accepting the OOT as the way 4-6 should be, simply because the SE and the prequels exist.

Another problem is that some people actually grew up when the originals were first being released, and so 16 years go by before they see the prequels. For me, it was only 8 or 9 years at the most between seeing the originals for the first time and seeing TPM. I guess the only way to truly objectively compare everything is to do something like what this guy did, except instead of the SE and the PT it's the OOT and the PT, in either narrative order or original order, just as long as the viewer knows which was actually made first. This is what I mean when I say it's hard to compare everything objectively.

Whereas the originals felt like a mythological time period, the prequels just felt like 3 average movies. And, as we've emphasized already, each of the originals stand on their own whereas each of the prequels all feel the same as one another. Now, with the SE, Lucas has done his best to homogenize the entire thing and make it "Excalibur in outer space" indeed. An interesting irony I'd like to point out is that while Lucas back in the day wanted to evoke the theatrical serials in his episodic structuring of the "saga," today he's saying stuff like "we're moving into television and that's all we're going to focus on." In a hundred years, I wonder if anyone will even remember that these movies were made for the cinema and not for television. Ugh, the more I contribute to this "what might've been" discussion, the more I seriously wish it'd actually been that way.

Something I've thought ever since seeing ROTS is that the Vader suit seemed very tacked onto the end of the movie. It really is the case for them having just foregone it completely and left anakin as he's fallen into the pit, not seeing him again until ANH.

I don't really understand the case for people like Coppola or Spielberg having done the prequels. I by all means agree Lucas should not have directed them, I just think it should've been a modern day equivalent of people like Kershner and Marquand. And writers, that also would've helped.
Post
#266361
Topic
Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266361/action/topic#266361
Time
Here is the real problem I'm seeing, something that's been brought up in the last few posts.

People are disliking the originals because they think that the prequels are more the "real" story than the originals simply because they were released recently. The originals now have that cgi look of the prequels because of the SE's except it doesn't mesh well at all with those movies because they were made 20 years earlier, therefore people think of them as being inferior to the prequels which are basically bluescreen epics where everything can conveniently mesh together. This is partly me theorizing on how anyone could actually like the prequels over the originals, which is the real problem I'm seeing. Then again, I do get hopeful whenever I read people's lists of their favorite movies and I see things like "Star Wars before it started sucking," even though that's an equally bandwagon thing to say.
Post
#266276
Topic
OOT has 1 day left
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266276/action/topic#266276
Time
That advertisement still raises way too big of an eyebrow for me though. If the english translation actually reads "will generate profits," then LFL must really have something up its sleeve. I mean, there've already been two dvd releases that we know for sure have sold a whole lot of copies, proving that the vast majority of people don't know they're getting a shoddy transfer of the OOT. Hell, even several people on these boards have expressed that they don't care even though they do know they're getting a shoddy transfer. What could this new '07 boxset possibly have to make LFL so sure that they'll make money off of it?