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Fang Zei

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14-Oct-2006
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11-Aug-2025
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2,787

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Post
#270354
Topic
Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Time
In regards to the Luke/Vader dynamic, yes, I could maybe see that working. On the other hand, Yoda saying "you're father is" to Luke in ROTJ is also speaking to the audience. James Earl Jones didn't even believe it when he read the line. Watching the PT between Empire and Jedi spoils that.

Also, the OT isn't only about Luke and the Skywalkers. That last scene of Empire is just as much if not more about how they're going to get Han back. This gets completely interrupted if you stop to watch the PT between Empire and Jedi.

I still say watch the PT before the OT or don't watch the PT at all.

On a side note, this brings back some good memories. About a year and a half ago, my friend and I sat down with a mutual friend who'd never seen the OT and showed it to him (it was my '04 widescreen boxset). Yea, it was the SE complete with wierd colors and sounds here and there but at least it was good picture and audio quality.....

Anyway, I think he mentioned beforehand that he'd "tried to watch the newer ones (the prequels) but couldn't get into them because they didn't make much sense" or something to that effect. So the three of us sit down to watch the OT. By the way, yes you can definitely still see the garbage mattes depending on your dvd/tv setup. They're as plain as day.

We finish ANH, our friend gets up and goes "next!" So we pop in Empire, that gets done, he goes "next!" By the time we finished Jedi it was the middle of the night. I'd also brought over TPM and AOTC (this was summer of '05) so I let him borrow those to watch. I asked him what he thought of them now that he'd seen the OT and he was like "yea, they make a lot more sense now." I'm assuming he also saw ROTS at some point.

I think this all goes a long way towards proving just how much better than the PT the OT is. You can jump right into ANH but you can't do the same with TPM. I think this shows just how much the prequels would've failed if they'd been made first, back in '77 and with the technology of the time. It's the story we really care about and no amount of SEing has truly ruined the OT, at least not yet.

Another story I'd like to share is rather brief by comparison. A friend of mine's niece is not two years old, but a few months ago he showed her the OT for the first time ('04 widescreen boxset). He noticed that whenever Vader was on screen she was making these wierd sounds with her mouth, but then he realized she was immitating his breathing! Watching it with her also reaffirmed my friend's opinion of just how awesome the OT truly is (even in SE form).
Post
#270321
Topic
Did Anakin's fall start with Qui-Gon?
Time
Watto's chance cube was fixed in the first place, although whether or not Qui-Gon was aware of this does have some bearing on just how dishonorable his force-push really was.

Wookie Wedgie, I'm not so sure about Qui-Gon not getting killed until Episode III. It had always been implicit that it was only Anakin and Obi by the time the lava pit duel rolled around. Maybe he could've stayed on in some other capacity once Obi-Wan started to train Anakin? Or maybe (and this is something I just thought up just now) he could've stayed in the shadows after Episode I as some mysterious figure and then had his big reveal in Episode III and then gotten killed by Anakin.

Gaffer Tape does have a good point, though. Even without the Greedo scene there are way too many cameos making the PT feel more like one huge homage instead of a continuation.
Post
#269978
Topic
The OT on HBO HD this month, unfortunately it is the SE
Time
Like I said in another post somewhere, my computer monitor is 1024 by 768 which is perfect for watching 16:9 dvd's at their full resolution as oppossed to watching them on 4:3 tv at only 2/3 or 3/4 the resolution or whatever the downconversion is. This is why I only want the OOT looking and sounding the best it possibly can on regular ol' dvd. Until there's an affordable HD format that can rival the resolution and quality of 35mm film, I couldn't care less.
Post
#269698
Topic
The OT on HBO HD this month, unfortunately it is the SE
Time
LFL would have to somehow justify the 9/12 release in order for any remastered OOT release to seem logical, zombie. A good number of copies were sold of that release, yes? Even the people with HD tv's picked them up. They're going to be quite pissed when they find out an actual 16:9 transfer has been released, if that even happens. Lucas now has a choice between sticking behind his vision for "his" movies or giving into moneymaking. Maybe my mind just isn't open enough, but what I see happenning is a 6 disc saga boxset, unless LFL wants to go all out and please all of the fans, in that case they'll release it along with a pristine looking OOT. All I'm saying is that LFL releasing it the very year after they scammed us with the 9/12 release wouldn't make much sense to me.

LFL released the OT in 2004 because they wanted as many dvd players out there as possible. LFL released the OOT laserdisc onto dvd in 2006 because they didn't want to wait until there were a lot of widescreen tv's out there, they wanted to make an easy dollar.

As for the uphill battle, I can't say I really care about seeing the OOT in HD although I don't see why LFL wouldn't do an HD master before making a new dvd. No, that wouldn't stop them from holding back an HD release for years and years and years, but all any of us really wants is for it to at least look the best it can on regular ol' dvd.
Post
#269633
Topic
"Archiving seminar reveals 'Star Wars' tidbit?" Another SE?!
Time
My thoughts exactly

I'd have to look at the numbers to see how things have sold over the years, so let me just say something about the '04 dvd. Many people, myself included, were just so distracted by all the bells and whistles and just the sheer fact that the movies were finally on dvd at all (after the first two prequels had already been released on the format) that we just didn't care about its not being the original version. Now, not everyone shared this sentiment. Chud.com didn't even bother to review the boxset and a reader wrote the site's founder, Nick Nunziata, to ask why. Nick replied in his mailbag column with something along the lines of "oh, yea, it's been a while since I've seen those movies, so maybe I'll give them a watch."

He didn't write a review simply because it was the SE, and this is coming from a guy whose website reviews just about every dvd that gets released.

It goes without saying then that the Limited Editions were also not reviewed by the site. People have become turned off to Star Wars because it's just not worth it. They can't just be movies anymore. They have to be, as I overheard someone in one of my film classes put it, "a way of life."
Post
#269627
Topic
Will you buy the OOT again ?
Time
Originally posted by: Mike O
Originally posted by: Fang Zei
The real kicker is going to be the explanation LFL comes up with for why the 9/12 release wasn't what it should've been. Not that films don't get double dipped all the time, but there's bad anamorphic quality and then there's laserdisc quality. It took Universal a good eight years to release an anamorphic dvd of David Lynch's "Dune," but it did happen. Yesterday I was watching Criterion's double dip of Seven Samurai which I rented from Video Americain (it turned out they were having a "rent 3, rent 1 free" thing, so my friend payed for 2 of them). I remember renting the old dvd years ago and how grainy it looked. The newer dvd is quite impressive, smooth, crystal clear. And this was made from a dupe negative!!! It really gets me excited with what would be possible for the OOT on dvd, given the proper treatment.

This is not "Conan the Destroyer" we're talking about here, it's Star Wars.


Yes, but will Lucas allow it? That's the problem.


All it raises is questions, and at the end of the day all I have left is the idea that maybe the Marcia lawsuit story is true.

I finally saw the GOUT dvd of ROTJ earlier tonight at a friend's place. No, I still haven't seen the discs for Star Wars and Empire, but watching Jedi brought back some good memories. During Lapti Nek, this girl we were watching it with said that she loved the scene simply because it looked real and fake at the same time. No, I didn't bother to say a single thing on top of that. I just smiled a geniune smile.
Post
#269599
Topic
any news on the OOT ?
Time
It would be negative only because it's been built up ever since the non-anamorphic news broke back in May. The problem is that it's all been built up on the assumption that the limited edition was a scam (which it pretty much was, no matter how optimistically you look at it).

Call me spoiled, but I like watching stuff on my computer at full resolution and 4:3 letterbox becomes a lot more noticeable under that particular method of viewing. On 4:3 television I guess it's all the same, and it probably would look so to me, once I'd gotten past the very video, nonfilmlike look of it, which is pretty much how Conan the Destroyer looks. I don't have a 16:9 tv, but a friend of mine lost the remote to his and as a result we had to watch Judge Dredd all stretched out because he needed the remote just so he could press "zoom." Anamorphic video is nice because you can have it either way.
Post
#269576
Topic
its not true is it ? (re George writing the Prequels)
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84
Around 1975 or 1976, he wrote down the character histories that exist mentally in every writers head. This resulted in a note collection of about "8 or 9 pages", in his words, which contained character sketches and background details, such as the formation of the empire and fall of the republic, the nature of the jedi, the broad history of people like obi wan and palpatine. Some of this found its way into the prologue of the novelisation in 1976, which, if you read, gives a pretty approximate parallel to the political-based plot of the PT.

So, in a sense, yes he sorta did, but in a larger sense, not really. He didn't plan it to be a series or ever shown on film, and it was vague and nothing special, the same background development that stems from any reasonably-complex story, and many of the pivotal prequel details (ie Darth Sidious, Anakin becoming Vader, Yoda, etc.) were absent and not added until ESB and ROTJ era.


That's what's neat about the sequels. As the story progresses you find out more of the backstory. This even continued into the Timothy Zahn novels, although I haven't gotten around to reading all of the thrawn trilogy yet. It's cool that they kept coming back to him for novels even during the prequel era, because not only does that solidify his first SW novels as canon, it brings them even more to the forefront. That's the gift and the curse of the EU. It's not that it "didn't happen" if something like Darth Maul's Exar Kun saber shows up in one of Lucas's movies. It's just that it's suddenly not as important because the movies are the movies and the books are the books, at least that's how one of my older friends put it.
Post
#269570
Topic
"Archiving seminar reveals 'Star Wars' tidbit?" Another SE?!
Time
Originally posted by: MagnoliaFan
100 shots is only probably a handful of scenes per film.
I think what he witnessed was them beginning to remaster the deleted scenes for a future OT dvd release, ala the prequel discs.
It doesn't necessarily have to be scenes going back into the film.


That was one of the first things to cross my mind upon reading the article. After all, deleted scenes were conspicuously absent from the '04 set.

In regards to the OOT, the other day I was reading the wiki entry for the film Fantasia. It turns out that because there've been so many different versions released since 1940, Disney didn't have an actual complete usable master of the original version when the film's 60th anniversary rolled around back in 2000. So guess what they did. They reconstructed it as best they could. Not only does Disney not need to "Special Edition" their movies, they actually go through this kind of trouble to present things as they really looked. Lucasfilm only has a mere handful of movies to its name and, let's face it, nothing besides Star Wars can compare for popularity. Indiana Jones is either close or still far behind somewhere in second place. Just the other week I was talking with my mother on the phone and she mentioned some journal published a list of the wealthiest people and next to each person's name was what their business was. She found it amusing that next to Lucas's name it simply said "Star Wars."
Post
#269337
Topic
"Archiving seminar reveals 'Star Wars' tidbit?" Another SE?!
Time
What about this stuff from wookieepedia?:

# Mark Hamill's fall from Cloud City had to be re-shot after the film was damaged during processing.
# Mark Hamill did most of his own stunts in the film. The scene where Luke Skywalker falls from Cloud City onto the Millennium Falcon—which was later reshot due to film damage-caused an injury to Mark Hamill's wrist. Unfortunately, most of the footage—including Luke Skywalker's landing on the hull of the Millennium Falcon—was omitted from the final film.
Post
#269297
Topic
"Archiving seminar reveals 'Star Wars' tidbit?" Another SE?!
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
It seems most here are resolved to the opinion that Lucas is undoubtedly going to be making changes, therefore you might as well enjoy them. Well, I still wish he wouldn't and will still be upset when he undoubtedly decides to go through with it.

Just as long as we get the originals in good quality, I don't really care. In an absolutely ideal situation we'd also get TPM in its unaltered form. That would be nice if only because I actually saw the prequels multiple times on the big screen during their respective runs.

Originally posted by: zombie84
I have always heard this spoken of but i have never even seen official evidence that this happened. I really do believe it, but the only references to this event are the blurb on his IMDB page, which may be reprised at wikipedia or something. Is this referenced or even confirmed by anyone with authority or is this purely in the realm of unconfirmed-internet-fact?


If it's unconfirmed fact, you certainly have to wonder what it's doing on imdb! I have seen things get posted in trivia and then dissappear later on. For example, there was something on Star Trek VI's about Lawrence Konner and Mark Rosenthal having nothing to do with the script according to Leanard Nimoy but getting credited simply because they argued enough for it. I definitely read that somewhere, I'm pretty sure it was imdb, but it's not there anymore. Still, in Jedi's case, Alec Mills as cinematographer is still listed albeit as uncredited. The story must've started somewhere.

Another story just came to mind. What was the deal with the reshoot of Mark Hamill's fall from the Cloud City weathervane to Lando in the top hatch of the Falcon? Did they screw up the original camera negative during processing? That's what I read somewhere.

Originally posted by: oojason
cheers for the heads-up Jambe.

I remember Terence Stamp (who played Chancellor Valorum in Episode I) saying a few years ago that he was surprised how few of the scenes he filmed made it to the final cut of Ep1 - and that there were a lot more politically themed content that didn't make it either.

Perhaps if new scenes are being inserted into the OT, then there is a chance that maybe the PT will also have new or previously unseen shots inserted too...?


(the cynic in me thinks as it has been 8 years since the release of Ep1 Lucas must be itching to make a few changes )


Since LFL is pushing the "we're focusing on television" thing, I could stand to see the prequels filled out a little. I still havne't gotten around to reading the OT novelizations or the ROTS novelization for that matter, but the gap in content between movie and book seems to be much greater in the prequels than in the originals. Then again, I hear there's stuff in the ROTS movie that doesn't happen in the novel.

I still say all of this on the condition that GL releases all six movies in their original forms and in good quality. I wonder if he actually cut into the negative for TPM when he made the changes for the '01 dvd or if he just did it on the computer.
Post
#269266
Topic
"Archiving seminar reveals 'Star Wars' tidbit?" Another SE?!
Time
If we do get the OOT in remastered shape for this year, I actually hope GL just goes crazy with the latest SE version. Looking at it in an even broader perspective, it could put an interesting spin on the whole debate within the fandom, but I'll get to that in a moment.

The B-Wings' attack on a Star Destroyer during the Battle of Endor is something I've always wanted to see realized, ever since I first saw that production painting years ago. Speaking of production paintings, they dipped into that well a little with the "floating homes" around Cloud City in the ESB SE. Why not go all out and put all of Ralph McQuarrie's ideas in there? It would go a ways towards making the OT much more like the PT, at least in terms of the number of vfx shots. I think what's limiting that is the trickery of how to best cut entirely new shots into the existing edit of the film. In any event, we'll just have to wait and see.

Getting back to the more important subject that was raised by TipTup, the idea of the next SE release dissillusioning people to the realities of Lucas's revisionism, I think that's a good point because it seems the current SE isn't even being given a slap on the wrist by most people. It's all about "oh, it doesn't really change the story" and then when it arguably does change the story, i.e. Hayden in ROTJ, the justification is "oh, well, people will be seeing the movies 1-6 from now on." Let's nevermind that the dvd was released before ROTS, but I digress. Many people, myself included, were too distracted by the Lowry restoration, the extras of commentaries and docs to care that it wasn't the original version, and with GL's comments of "it doesn't exist to me any more" I didn't see any problem in picking it up. Perhaps it will take a really major story alteration of some sort in order for people to finally see the SE for what it really is. Like I said in an earlier post, it scares me that people someday might not even remember that these movies were originally shown in theatres and not on some HD channel.

More than anything I just want to see the OOT remastered, and I think many of you are onto something with the idea that this will further the cause. In addition, that "tip of the iceberg" statement in regards to the '04 dvd extras is a good sign. Alan Hume's falling out with the producers of ROTJ is just one of many subjects that could be covered in any future docs, and of course there's also a good number of archival stuff out there just waiting to be released. Maybe they should package all the archival stuff with the remastered OOT keeping it all criterion style and then do the "Saga/SE/2007 30th anniversary what have you" as a seperate release.
Post
#269241
Topic
"Archiving seminar reveals 'Star Wars' tidbit?" Another SE?!
Time
Frst USA Today confuses content with quality, then they get the date wrong. I'm curious to see what GL's got up his sleeve for the new dvd, assuming this guy at Sundance actually knew what he was talking about. For the moment I'll consider this to be the first leaked news we've gotten in months.

Zombie, I echo your sentiments. The "updating" of the fx is probably the biggest case against the SE ever having been made.
Post
#268874
Topic
Will you buy the OOT again ?
Time
The real kicker is going to be the explanation LFL comes up with for why the 9/12 release wasn't what it should've been. Not that films don't get double dipped all the time, but there's bad anamorphic quality and then there's laserdisc quality. It took Universal a good eight years to release an anamorphic dvd of David Lynch's "Dune," but it did happen. Yesterday I was watching Criterion's double dip of Seven Samurai which I rented from Video Americain (it turned out they were having a "rent 3, rent 1 free" thing, so my friend payed for 2 of them). I remember renting the old dvd years ago and how grainy it looked. The newer dvd is quite impressive, smooth, crystal clear. And this was made from a dupe negative!!! It really gets me excited with what would be possible for the OOT on dvd, given the proper treatment.

This is not "Conan the Destroyer" we're talking about here, it's Star Wars.
Post
#268785
Topic
Lost Prequel Ideas
Time
It's funny how the last two things you listed actually were covered...just not in the movies. You've got to love how Lucas leaves the least interesting parts of the prequel era to the movies while simultaneously putting the best parts in the EU (translation: $$$$$$).

On the subject of previous backstories from the 70's, I seem to recall reading in one version of the opening crawl/prologue about Mace Windu and his master from such and such planet. Obviously Lucas changed it all around and retained only the character's name by the time he wrote TPM, but it's yet another planet name he could have used. Instead he kept going back to Tatooine and Coruscant for what seems like half of the entire trilogy. That's one major fault of the PT, Coruscant is like this HQ which the characters can fly back and forth between. That's BORING. TPM isn't quite as guilty of this, but it did spend a bit too much time on Tatooine. I remember feeling kind of dissapointed when I found out Anakin was from the same damn planet as Luke. I think it was on the OS sometime before the movie was released. Everything on Naboo and Coruscant works just fine, although again I wonder why the Jedi Temple was there and not on some other planet. Yes, I know it's all a part of their downfall as an Order, but it's yet another step towards making the universe feel very small and closed off.

As for AOTC, well, I don't really know where to start. This is where the PT starts to feel like a TV miniseries more than an actual trilogy of movies. It was only a gearing up for the Clone Wars, and the only good stuff is at the Battle of Geonosis. Besides that, it serves to set up Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru just so we know who they are at the end of ROTS. Speaking of which, on to that film.

My biggest problem was the ending, would've liked to have seen only the fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan for those ten minutes. Cutting away to Yoda and Palps was just an excuse to lessen the quality of both duels. Again, it's too much about Coruscant. I also remember hearing that Anakin would be collecting various pieces of the Vader armor throughout the film, too bad. The Vader armor just felt really tacked onto the ending of the movie. With the flip of the swithc we go from PT land to OT land.