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Fang Zei

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Join date
14-Oct-2006
Last activity
5-Aug-2020
Posts
2,679

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Post
#1360228
Topic
Is it Lucas, or Fox, who has prevented the restored OOT release?
Time

imperialscum said:

V.I.N.Cent said:

The casual Star Wars fan would likely buy such as a set, and even film fans in general.

That may be true, but most of them would not know what they are buying anyway. So in the end, that does not amount to a demand, because if they throw out another SE with a minimal effort, they will get just as much money as if they put a lot of effort into a proper restoration of OOT.

A restored OOT would at this point be the only thing Lucasfilm has in their back pocket to get people to shell out for these movies yet again. I’m not getting my hopes up, but we did see a reissue of the 2004 dvd discs two years later that included the GOUT, and a trilogy reissue two years after that which still included the GOUT discs.

We also saw reissues of the 2011 bd, first in 2013 and then 2015, before everything went quiet for four years in the build-up to D+ and the physical 4k UHD release. It would seem Lucasfilm can’t resist the urge to double-dip, and as of now they’ve still got a Star Wars movie pencilled in for the end of 2022. That’s a long way away, and almost three years will have passed since the debut of the 4k versions by then. Maybe just maybe they’re saving the long sought after unaltereds for last.

Post
#1345680
Topic
I'll never understand the attitude of people who oppose the release of the unaltered original trilogy.
Time

SilverWook said:

I refuse to believe anybody loves Maclunkey. Even the guy who played Greedo is baffled.😛
https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/star-wars-greedo-maclunkey-disney-plus-exclusive-interview/

And where are people getting the idea this is any sort of final definitive version? I’ll believe that when George says he’s done with it.

Star Wars: The George Lucas “I May Have Gone Too Far in a Few Places” Director’s Cut

Post
#1345296
Topic
Is it Lucas, or Fox, who has prevented the restored OOT release?
Time

Broom Kid said:

Fang Zei said:

Maybe, but I’m not so sure just how much loyalty they’ll feel once they start feeling the pressure from the higher ups at Disney to make them as much money as possible by any means necessary.

The money Disney is losing isn’t about to be made up by releasing the Original Trilogy to Disney+, though. That’s not feasible or plausible. Lucasfilm is already driving a lot of traffic to that platform (and to Disney in general) as it is and it’s not really having much of an effect on those losses, because those losses aren’t really FROM the movies division. Disney’s losses are being most strongly felt in the parks being closed, and sports being gone. Theaters being closed is hurting them, yes, but that’s not a particularly large concern in the face of their owning their own streaming network. They just moved the Hamilton release up a year and a half, for example.

As for George, half of that $4 billion he got paid in the sale was in Disney stock, not actual cash. It’s in his interest to see the company do well,

The original versions aren’t big enough for that to be a concern. They just aren’t. It’s not a money thing. Lucasfilm just doesn’t want to do it right now. They probably will, eventually. But there’s no weird conspiracy behind it. No contractual stipulations, no distribution problems. And it’s not a spite thing, either. They just… don’t want to do it.

For now.

When they do, it probably won’t be due to money concerns, either.

Who said anything about Disney+? They’ll probably never do that. I was talking about physical media. Highly unlikely it’ll happen this year or next, since they just released the UHD’s barely a month and a half ago, but Disney’s still got another Star Wars movie pencilled in for the end of 2022. Sounds like the perfect occasion for an expensive holiday-timed multi-disc collector’s set with the unaltered and ‘97 versions thrown in.

They could give the prequels the same treatment, maybe with the Imax cut of AotC although that’s a long shot. Even the Disney-era stuff had conspicuously absent stuff like, for example, any mention at all of Harrison Ford’s leg injury on TFA, and deleted scenes for Rogue One, Solo, and TRoS. They could always throw in the 3D version just to add an extra disc to all 11 films and up the price point.

Look, I’m not saying they’ll “need” to do any of this out of financial desperation. But what I am saying is that a barebones UHD with previously released extras (extras they couldn’t take the time to properly author, apparently) can’t possibly be the last disc-based release of Star Wars.

Post
#1345159
Topic
Is it Lucas, or Fox, who has prevented the restored OOT release?
Time

Broom Kid said:

Fang Zei said:
The consensus seems to be that the people currently in charge at Lucasfilm feel a sense of loyalty to George,

It’s this.

I happen to think it simply comes down to greed on Disney’s part and the desire to maximize profits.

Not this.

Either way - Fox never had anything to do with the original versions not being distributed. That was never at any point anything other than misguided fan speculation repeated so often on forums and comments sections that people just took it as read and repeated it themselves. There was never any inkling that theory had any basis in fact, it just sounded plausible-ish provided you didn’t look into it too closely, and nobody “winning” arguments on a messageboard was inclined to do that anyway.

It’s the same with the “Lucas built a clause into the contract” story that has since replaced the “Fox won’t let them” story that’s been mooted for almost 10 years. Lucas never built a clause into a contract, and Iger never agreed to such a clause. The entire notion of the clause even existing is a fan invention.

The holdup is Lucasfilm. Not Disney. And the people with the power to get it done at Lucasfilm don’t want to do it. If they did, it would be done already.

Maybe, but I’m not so sure just how much loyalty they’ll feel once they start feeling the pressure from the higher ups at Disney to make them as much money as possible by any means necessary.

As for George, half of that $4 billion he got paid in the sale was in Disney stock, not actual cash. It’s in his interest to see the company do well, and that might override his desire to withhold the “rough drafts” of his work from the public.

Post
#1345155
Topic
Is it Lucas, or Fox, who has prevented the restored OOT release?
Time

Disney owns all of what was 20th Century Fox now and everything Fox owned the rights to, so that ain’t the reason.

The consensus seems to be that the people currently in charge at Lucasfilm feel a sense of loyalty to George, and that Disney might have even made a gentlemens’ agreement with the man not to release anything other than his preferred versions.

I happen to think it simply comes down to greed on Disney’s part and the desire to maximize profits. For all we know, they might have been planning from the get-go to eventually give the unaltereds their due … after they’d reissued the 2011 blu-rays several times and then at least once on 4k UHD, of course. If that’s in fact the case (we have no way of knowing, but we can speculate) then it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the massive financial losses they’re about to incur this year, err, “accelerate” their plans just a little.

Post
#1342449
Topic
I'll never understand the attitude of people who oppose the release of the unaltered original trilogy.
Time

SilverWook said:

Just like everybody else who wants their favorite movie on the latest format? Golly, I’d love to have an early 2000’s anamorphic OOT DVD release I could bitch about being the only thing out there one could buy. Even the original cut of The Warriors got one.

It would be ironic if an official restoration happened and got released to blu-ray and uhd … but never got an official anamorphic dvd release.

For the record, I’d be okay with that if it meant the OOT was future-proofed in the highest possible quality physical media can provide.

Post
#1340784
Topic
I'll never understand the attitude of people who oppose the release of the unaltered original trilogy.
Time

darth-gary said:

Star Wars conversation with a friend a few months ago…

Me: “If you want to watch the original trilogy the way we saw it as kids I have the “Despecialized” versions without the cgi in HD…”

Friend: “Naw, man. When I want to watch the originals I’ve got my old VHS tapes, and they still work fine.”

(He points over at a shelf, I notice they’re the fullscreen Special Edition tapes, I scream internally.)

This right here begins and ends the argument for why all versions should be officially preserved in a future release.

For some people, the “original version” still ain’t the original.

Post
#1337515
Topic
There should be a proper release of the 1977 Star Wars at this point
Time

yotsuya said:

And if Disney doesn’t want to do such a release, let Criterion do it. They love things like that.

They’d probably put George’s preferred version on disc 1 (they’re all about preserving the artist’s vision) and then get people like Robert A Harris to consult on a restoration neither George nor Disney could be bothered with.

When was the last time Criterion put out anything owned by Disney? The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is The Life Aquatic, which was released theatrically through Touchstone, but I feel like that was already several years ago.

It would be great if they did the same for Graffiti and THX, although I don’t know what their current relationship is with Universal and Warner.

Post
#1337026
Topic
There should be a proper release of the 1977 Star Wars at this point
Time

kujythrgefdw said:

If Disney won’t release every Star Wars movie without any changes, this is the least they can do. The 2006 DVD was released with no effort and missed the point entirely because it had 1993’s audio alterations. My idea is for a standalone release of Star Wars in its unaltered form in Ultra HD Blu-ray and digital. This would not only preserve an important piece of film history, but make them a damn good amount of money as well. George Lucas probably put something in the Disney contract so they can’t do this though, because any sane person in charge of Star Wars would definitely have done this already. I just can’t stand the CGI crap George Lucas put into Star Wars. What was he thinking?

The 1993 audio thing actually raises an interesting question, which is, just how original and unaltered should an original/unaltered release be before it’s considered definitive enough?

Wasn’t ESB only shown in 70mm for the first month or so, and had several differences from the “original” version we know now?

Post
#1332717
Topic
The Phantom Menace - Theatrical version scanned in 4K (a WIP)
Time

ZigZig said:

There is more changes thant those 4 known changes (ex: the invasion of Naboo was rerendered with different ships, the external view of Palpatine’s office was deleted, the sound was totally remixed) , but it is probably not the point of this discussion.

Ah, forgot about the Naboo invasion. After all these years my memory is a little blurry, but I want to say the view from the window of Theed Palace was re-done? Or are there other shots I’m forgetting about?

Re: Palpatine’s office exterior, yes that shot was deleted but since it was replaced by the air taxi sequence I don’t really think about it.

Post
#1332709
Topic
The Phantom Menace - Theatrical version scanned in 4K (a WIP)
Time

yotsuya said:

ZigZig is 100% correct. The DVD was made from the same master as the VHS and LD from 2000. The only difference are the 4 known changes. This was also aired in the EU in HD. It features a more cropped picture and a different color grade. The BR was a new scan (it might have been 4k since we are talking 2011) and features the CG Yoda to match the other two PT movies. But this new version is NOT a new scan and features no known changes. Same colors, same shots, nothing new. And no sign that it was a native 4k scan (not that it would make any difference in the FX shots which were 2k to start with).

When you say “the 4 known changes,” you mean:

  1. podrace
  2. air taxi
  3. that one senate interior shot
  4. that one shot of Theed at night

Do I have that right?

The blu-ray added a few more changes on top of that, and the only ones that come to mind are:

  1. re-done shot on Trade Federation bridge early in the movie

  2. re-rendered Bode and Feed in one shot during podrace

  3. digital Yoda

Anything I missed?

Post
#1327149
Topic
Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga 4k UHD -- 27 DISC Boxed Set -- 3/31/2020
Time

Mocata said:

Does the general public even know the PT has different versions? I mean barely anyone out there in the wild knows what the OOT is so…

RotS is kinda the odd one out, since the version we have now is basically the theatrical cut with only one or two very minor changes to the picture and sound, and it’s the only one where the edit hasn’t been adjusted one bit AFAIK (aside from the wipe/cut).

Even TPM’s most significant changes (Extended podrace, Coruscant taxi, cgi Yoda, the bridge by Theed Palace), could easily be branched onto the same disc as the theatrical cut.

Heck, including the imax cut of AotC would merely require skipping over stretches of the movie for the most part.

For each movie they could do three cuts:

TPM:
‘99 Theatrical
‘01 Extended
‘11 bd

AotC:
‘02 theatrical
‘02 Imax
‘11 bd

RotS:
‘05 theatrical
‘05 dvd
‘11 bd

I don’t think any further changes from the 2011 versions were spotted in the D+ versions, were there?

Post
#1325526
Topic
Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga 4k UHD -- 27 DISC Boxed Set -- 3/31/2020
Time

JawsTDS said:

For a small moment in time, I thought we might just get the OOT. Guess not. Oh well.

I made sure not to get my hopes up, because if those bonus discs were ever going to end up being the unaltered versions we would’ve known about it the moment this set was announced.

Maybe on some distant day, when I have the gear to easily acquire the fan preservations of my choosing, I’ll pick up this set just to abide by the rules. Although I must admit I’ve never fully agreed with this idea that we need to give LFL money for work they didn’t do. Does having a D+ subscription count?

Post
#1325475
Topic
Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga 4k UHD -- 27 DISC Boxed Set -- 3/31/2020
Time

I don’t think they’ll remove the “Fox” name from legacy credits of movies they now own (they haven’t here). It’s only for future projects that they’re changing the name. For example, the poster for The French Dispatch already says Searchlight Pictures on it.

This is similar to how Ted Turner bought out MGM’s entire back catalogue in the mid-80’s and, even after his assets were in turn acquired by Time Warner in the 90’s, the legacy credits on the back of the Warner Bros dvd releases of those films still said Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer just as they always had (2001: A Space Odyssey is a good example). Also worth noting is that while the opening logos of those films remained unaltered, the turner logo was added to the packaging since the copyright technically belonged to that company now and not MGM.

Post
#1325261
Topic
Is the 1997 Special Edition important?
Time

The fact that it was the last major re-release of the movies in theaters is reason enough to consider it important.

Like I’ve said before, if the OT were ever to get the Blade Runner treatment it honestly wouldn’t bother me if the ‘04 and ‘11 versions were jettisoned. They could easily be branched onto the same disc as the ‘97 version (just as the ‘92 Blade Runner was branched onto the same disc as the ‘82 cuts), but the ‘97 version takes priority. It’s the first and still the most significant round of revisions to the films. It’s what got us into this whole mess in the first place, which gives it historical value. For seven years it was the final version of the films, George’s “vision,” until he changed it again while finishing up the PT. The stuff he introduced in ‘04 like TPM Jabba, Temuera’s voice as Boba and Hayden as Anakin’s ghost reminds many viewers of movies they don’t like while they’re trying to enjoy movies they do, and the ‘97 cuts at least take advantage of cgi without actively reminding the viewer “hey, this trilogy is part of a longer saga now.” Even if the SE was created in large part because the PT was right around the corner, it’s still a pre-PT version.

But at the same time, I acknowledge that any change to the content of these movies is going to put off fans of the OT as it existed originally. Had the SE been basically the same films we remembered, maybe with just the fx shots re-comp’d and the wipes re-done, this site wouldn’t exist. But since they decided to flat out erase the groundbreaking vfx work of many talented artists in order to “modernize” these movies, any improvements that come along with that is soured. I didn’t even get into the Han and Greedo / “Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival” / Jedi Rocks of it all.

The ‘97 version was the expensive $20 million restoration of Star Wars even if it introduced a lot of changes we don’t like. It was the first time I saw the OT on the big screen after only seeing it on tv throughout the early-to-mid 90’s via home video and USA network airings. I was eleven, and don’t remember noticing Greedo shooting first until I saw it again almost a year later on letterboxed vhs! I wasn’t hip to internet fan culture at the time (we didn’t even have internet until late ‘97, and that was 28k dial-up), so I don’t think it even dawned on me how big of a deal that particular alteration was until I saw Ben Affleck commenting on it in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.

Post
#1315532
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

What I find kind of funny is that this Skywalker Saga set is going to contain an additional disc per movie and yet that additional disc will not contain the unaltered versions.

That’s one less excuse Disney has to include it in the future. If the bean counters go “oh, pressing an additional disc per film would cost too much,” we can point to this set and say “you pressed an additional disc per film before just so you could include extras a lot of fans would consider of lower importance than a restored unaltered version.”

Post
#1311695
Topic
Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga 4k UHD -- 27 DISC Boxed Set -- 3/31/2020
Time

Density said:

crissrudd4554 said:

27 discs??

My theory on what will be included:

UHDs of each 1-9 (obviously), regular BDs of 1-9, and the same bonus discs from before. That adds up to 27.

No it doesn’t. There were only three bonus discs in the 2011 Blu-ray set, and neither TFA nor TLJ has a bonus disc. The standard Blu-rays of both TFA and TLJ simply include all the special features on the same disc. In TLJ’s case the standard Blu-ray functions as a bonus disc to the UHD for that reason.

So if they just included what’s been released so far, plus ROS and new UHD discs for all the films aside from TLJ, that would only add up to 21 discs.

At the very least they would have to spread everything out to an extra disc per film to get 27 discs. Which would be incredibly inefficient. And I can’t imagine they have enough new features from the sequels alone to make up 6 discs. So we should expect at bare minimum they include a lot more special features for all the films in some shape or form. That may or may not include the OUT.

You’re correct about the 2011 extras, but for both TFA and TLJ the extras were given their own discs. If you’re in a territory outside the US I suppose things might’ve been done differently, though.

It’s the prequels that I’m maybe the most curious about. TPM has been altered the most drastically by far from its theatrical version, but the differences become more trivial once we get to AotC and practically non-existent when we hit RotS. I know there isn’t nearly the same demand for the O-PT as there is for the O-OT, but it would be nice to see those versions officially preserved.

I could totally see Disney streamlining the collection by simply labeling each movie’s third disc “bonus.” That way, if they do include the theatrical I-VI, there won’t be an awkward lopsidedness to the set.

Post
#1311600
Topic
Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga 4k UHD -- 27 DISC Boxed Set -- 3/31/2020
Time

digitalfreaknyc said:

joefavs said:

THAT’S TOO MUCH MONEY FOR THAT

EDIT: did the math and it works out to ~$36/movie. Absolutely insane. Short of the OOT, i can’t begin to conceive what kind of special features it would need to have to justify that price.

I’ve got news for you - the Marvel Best Buy exclusive set comes with none. It’s only the 4k discs and it was $550. It’s sold out.

It includes regular 1080p blu-ray copies and there was a bonus disc exclusive to the collection, but yeah, it was still almost 24 dollars per film.

Is that price for the Skywalker set in Canadian dollars or US?

Post
#1311453
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Let’s put it this way.

When George was in charge, he never restored the OOT because he didn’t want to pay for it and because it contradicted his vision.

If Disney doesn’t do it, it’s going to be first and foremost because they don’t want to pay for it and don’t see themselves getting a good ROI. Any reasons having to do with George’s wishes will be a distant second.

Post
#1310772
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

DrDre said:

Fang Zei said:

DrDre said:

Jedi Master Skywalker said:

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1204960815821946880?s=21

JJ is on our sides

That’s good to hear, and I respect him for being open about his views in this matter, but he sadly also confirms the OOT will not be released for reasons even he doesn’t understand.

As far as he knows.

This is pretty major imo. We have the director of 2/3 of the ST saying on camera in a sit-down interview that he doesn’t understand why the unaltered versions haven’t been restored to modern quality. The most we’d gotten from him prior was casually mentioning he’d shown his kids the original versions in a written interview several years ago (whether this was the GOUT or Harmy is unclear).

Rian hasn’t brought up the subject at all to my knowledge since he was hired by LFL back in 2014, although he did jokingly refer to the SE as “the cartoon version” on twitter the week the bd’s came out back in 2011.

I think, it goes a little bit beyond, as far as he knows. He literally states, he asked about the OOT, and was told a release wasn’t possible. So, I think it’s almost certain the OOT will not be included in the physical release of the 4K versions next year. In this respect it’s also important to note, that the new 4K master was done under the supervision of Lucas before the sale of LFM, making it even less likely the OOT will be restored, as this will be an archive release, not a new restoration by Disney. The release of the OOT is becoming less likely with every year that passes, and with physical media becoming extinct, next year will likely be the last opportunity for such a release, as the SE will forever remain the available versions on streaming services. I just don’t see it happening next year, and so I don’t see it happening at all, sadly.

Those are all valid points, but I’d say the physical 4k release will sell in significantly higher numbers if an unaltered restoration is included, especially since anyone with a D+ subscription can now stream the 4k hdr SE anytime they’d like.

Post
#1310725
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

DrDre said:

Jedi Master Skywalker said:

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1204960815821946880?s=21

JJ is on our sides

That’s good to hear, and I respect him for being open about his views in this matter, but he sadly also confirms the OOT will not be released for reasons even he doesn’t understand.

As far as he knows.

This is pretty major imo. We have the director of 2/3 of the ST saying on camera in a sit-down interview that he doesn’t understand why the unaltered versions haven’t been restored to modern quality. The most we’d gotten from him prior was casually mentioning he’d shown his kids the original versions in a written interview several years ago (whether this was the GOUT or Harmy is unclear).

Rian hasn’t brought up the subject at all to my knowledge since he was hired by LFL back in 2014, although he did jokingly refer to the SE as “the cartoon version” on twitter the week the bd’s came out back in 2011.

Post
#1309072
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

DominicCobb said:

Fang Zei said:

doubleofive said:

I’m going to assume any DCP’s are still HD Branch. The use of it for the TROS teaser makes me wonder if Disney can tell the difference.

They only used that for the D23 preview, which only went up online AFAIK and was never sent out to theaters.

It definitely went out to theaters. It played before my IMAX screening of Ad Astra.

That’s curious.

Did it have an MPAA card at the front? Are you sure it wasn’t just part of the ads before the actual trailers?

Even if I’m wrong and that trailer got sent out as an actual trailer, I’d still chalk the use of the old master up to the fact that this was still prior to the launch of D+, for which we can now clearly see they were saving the new master. Since the 2004/2011 was already sitting on the shelf the trailer people just sourced it from that.

Even if they knew the newer master was pretty much finished and about to make its debut, we forget that the first trailer for RotS that went out to theaters back in late ‘04 used footage from the Lowry master. If it’s good enough to get printed to 35mm, it’s good enough for a trailer today in 2019.

Post
#1309035
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

doubleofive said:

I’m going to assume any DCP’s are still HD Branch. The use of it for the TROS teaser makes me wonder if Disney can tell the difference.

They only used that for the D23 preview, which only went up online AFAIK and was never sent out to theaters.

I’d be very surprised if they were still using the outdated 1.9k 2004 OT master yet again for the in-theater marathons when there’s now a true 4k cinema master that people can stream from their couch in 3.8k.