Sign In

Fang Zei

User Group
Members
Join date
14-Oct-2006
Last activity
17-Nov-2019
Posts
2,644

Post History

Post
#1305658
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

4throck said:

Fang Zei said:

Could the desaturated look be a result of the streaming compression?>

No, compression or resolution won’t affect saturation.

But HDR vs SDR colorspace and brightness will make a difference.
SDR has a smaller colorspace, so it’s less saturated by definition.

Seeing the screenshot comparisons between the 19SE and the 04/11 reminds me in a big way of the differences between the old blu-ray of The Matrix (which, it’s worth noting, would’ve also been from an hd master created in 2004 just like the OT blu-ray) and the remastered-in-4k blu-ray included with the UHD release.

Post
#1305638
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Could the desaturated look be a result of the streaming compression? Vudu undoubtedly uses a higher bitrate than Disney+, closer to what you’d be seeing on an actual blu-ray. A proper screenshot comparison will tell the story.

Also, since no one’s brought it up yet, presumably the new 4k masters are what will be used from now on for the dcp’s that get sent out to theaters?

Post
#1305114
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Depheros said:

Ewok eyes
Yes, everything post-1997 has been redone. I’m guessing the 1997 scenes have their pre-2004 compositing too? Not sure. (were 97SE shots recomp’ed in 2004 or am I remembering that wrong?)

The recomps were done in ‘97 from what I remember.

EDIT: nevermind, just realized I might’ve read your question wrong. What exactly do you mean by “recomping the 97SE shots”?

Post
#1305104
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

DominicCobb said:

It’s all guesswork, but TPM got a new scan for the BD, so it’d be odd if they did another new scan a year later for it.

There’s nothing to scan. The movie was essentially “rebuilt” directly from the digital filmout tapes in 2011 (they were still readable after more than a decade) in preparation for the blu-ray and the 3D version. That rebuilt master is what they’ll be going back to from now on to make any new transfers of the film.

Post
#1305050
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

pat man said:

DrDre said:

pat man said:

nl0428 said:

If anyone here went to go see the 3D release of The Phantom Menace, please tell me what the master and color grading looked like. Did it look like the 2011 Blu-ray, or this new Disney+ version?

I didn’t see the 3d release. But skimming through the movies the Prequels are just upscaled Blu-ray. I.e. nasty teal shift in Aotc.

No, they are not. The color grading is markedly different, more muted like the for the OT, and obviously HDR. I also don’t see any evidence of a blanket teal shift. There are plenty of blue skies, and white clouds in AOTC.

Ah, I’ve only streamed the HD version on disney plus.

The hd version doesn’t look like the blu-rays either, though. Whether you’re watching it in hdr or sdr, the new D+ transfers look like they’ve been made “fresh from the source” and not recycled from the hd masters prepared back in 2011 for the blu’s. I was streaming the beginning of AotC yesterday on D+ in regular hd and the colors looked noticeably closer to how I remember it looking in the theater and on dvd, without the teal cast of the bd.

Post
#1305045
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Mocata said:

Fang Zei said:

Mocata said:

Rodney-2187 said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Why can’t they just pull a Blade Runner, in which they release another Special Edition while packaging it with the previous versions (original cuts, 1997 versions, 2004 versions, and 2011 versions)?

I think everyone would love that, but this is something they could have done for years and haven’t. Many have said Disney/Lucasfilm is either contractually obligated by Lucas to only release the revised editions, or they feel beholden to Lucas to not go against his wishes. I used to think that sounded like a crazy conspiracy theory, but here we are with a restored 4K HDR version of the Original Trilogy, that was done years ago, and no sign of the unaltered versions.

Could they be included in some way on the inevitable disc release? Maybe, but I wouldn’t bet my credits on it.

Or they like having one version only. The myth of one vision at this point is stronger than the reality, which is fractured. Beyond contractual agreements in handing George the money, this is the only reasonable conclusion. The Mouse House wouldn’t want to be seen as weak.

Except now they’ve put up the 4k hdr versions on the streaming service ahead of the physical UHD release and not the other way around. There’s bound to be a lot of overlap between fans signing up to see The Mandalorian / Cassian / Obi-Wan and those who were planning on buying the eventual 4k disc release of the OT. Now those in the overlap have one less reason to bother with the latter since they can just stream it whenever they want. Unless of course Disney were to throw something else into the package to sweeten the deal.

I don’t follow you? New releases, old releases, all that matters is the idea this was the “original vision”. Most people think George Lucas created Star Wars already and they will watch or buy any version without questioning it. Most people probably don’t care about streaming or HD or anything, they just consume stuff when it is presented to them. We are now on the 4th Special Edition it still says “1977” on the new service but only super nerds like us will even notice.

My point is that a lot of those same fans probably also signed up for D+ and can now stream the latest version of the movies, in full 4k and hdr if they so desire, whenever they want. So why would those fans bother to spend additional money just to own it physically? If Disney really wants the discs to sell, and sell big, they’re now going to have to throw something in other than just the same streamable versions with a higher bitrate and better compression, and I think we all know what that something is.

Post
#1305038
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Mocata said:

Rodney-2187 said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Why can’t they just pull a Blade Runner, in which they release another Special Edition while packaging it with the previous versions (original cuts, 1997 versions, 2004 versions, and 2011 versions)?

I think everyone would love that, but this is something they could have done for years and haven’t. Many have said Disney/Lucasfilm is either contractually obligated by Lucas to only release the revised editions, or they feel beholden to Lucas to not go against his wishes. I used to think that sounded like a crazy conspiracy theory, but here we are with a restored 4K HDR version of the Original Trilogy, that was done years ago, and no sign of the unaltered versions.

Could they be included in some way on the inevitable disc release? Maybe, but I wouldn’t bet my credits on it.

Or they like having one version only. The myth of one vision at this point is stronger than the reality, which is fractured. Beyond contractual agreements in handing George the money, this is the only reasonable conclusion. The Mouse House wouldn’t want to be seen as weak.

Except now they’ve put up the 4k hdr versions on the streaming service ahead of the physical UHD release and not the other way around. There’s bound to be a lot of overlap between fans signing up to see The Mandalorian / Cassian / Obi-Wan and those who were planning on buying the eventual 4k disc release of the OT. Now those in the overlap have one less reason to bother with the latter since they can just stream it whenever they want. Unless of course Disney were to throw something else into the package to sweeten the deal.

Post
#1304966
Topic
Disney+ streaming platform : <strong>Star Wars content</strong> &amp; various info
Time

doubleofive said:

adywan said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

It’s not just the sky that has been changed. The dunes were altered for the SE and they have reverted those back to the '77 version

I noticed this last night too. I didn’t realize it was the original sand though. The sky/sand replacement was 2004.

Is… is this a sign they actually went back to the 97 negative and redid all of the subsequent changes?

I have so much work to do.

JEDIT: this would also explain why it doesn’t have the mistakes introduced in 04 (Ben’s purple lightsaber, the glow added without the core, Ghost Luke).

They still haven’t fixed what is imo RotJ’s most glaring vfx error, which is that when the DS2 destroys another ship all of the stationary ships in the background roll with the camera.

Post
#1304962
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Does anyone have a D+ subscription and the hardware to stream it in 4k (even if it’s only in sdr)? I’d be very curious what the OT looks like at full 2160p res. The compression probably cancels out some of the extra detail, but I would still think this looks better than what we’ve had to live with for the last 15 years.

Rogue One was also finished in 4k IIRC, so there should be some increase in detail, compression notwithstanding. TFA was only finished in 2k AFAIK, but the hdr should impress.

It’s the stuck-in-2k PT that I’m maybe the most curious about, both in terms of the 4k upscale and how it fares in hdr.

Post
#1304931
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

JawsTDS said:

This recent development has me wondering about those Blu-rays that came out a few weeks back. Everyone was aware that they had the 2011 changes on them, but I wondering if somehow they missed out on the fact that it could’ve had a new scan?

I read that it was just the 2011 discs rebranded / repackaged, but can anyone on this forum definitively confirm that?

I’m pretty sure the discs from September were the exact same from 2011. Disney probably didn’t want to spend a single red cent re-authoring I-VI, even though we now know they had a new master literally right around the corner. They probably just wanted to get them all out there individually in cheap packaging (not steelbooks) since they closed the Fox buyout only a few months earlier.

But like I said before, now we know why they waited so long to put this new transfer out there. I was convinced we wouldn’t see it in any form until the UHD discs arrived, just so they could blow everyone away with the picture quality compared to any previous release of the films. It’s clear now they wanted to save it not for disc, but for their streaming service. Now they can sell D+ with it and tout streamable 4k hdr versions of all the Star Wars movies.

Post
#1304676
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Octorox said:

Has anyone been able to determine if the wacky editing changes from the Attack of the Clones Blu-Ray are still there?

I was actually trying to remember what the changes were when I was watching the first few scenes this morning. All I remember is something got switched around when they fly through the power couplings and also the scene where Dooku escapes into space is rearranged as well.

Maybe someone can do a quick comparison between the bd and the D+ to see if those scenes have been changed yet again.

Post
#1304654
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Yeah I skimmed through the first several scenes of AotC this morning specifically to see if there was still a green/teal tint, and it appears to be gone. Coruscant’s skies actually look blue and there are some deep reds during the speeder chase.

I seem to recall seeing a screenshot comparison back in 2011 where one of the Twi’leks standing behind Padme when she arrives at Palpatine’s office is blue in one version and green in the other, so it would be interesting to compare them yet again with this new transfer.

Haven’t checked out TPM or RotS yet.

Post
#1304626
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Mocata said:

Han Solo IRL said:

https://abload.de/img/benvaderp8ktk.png

https://abload.de/img/lukefalconcrjkm.png

https://streamable.com/nit5m

Jeez. Everyone is waiting for some miraculous OOT release and they’re doing THIS?

…Wait is Vader’s red/green suit control button been changed to red/blue like in ESB? Weird thing to notice… but y’know.

Since anyone with a Disney+ subscription can now stream the movies in 4k hdr whenever they want, I have to wonder if Disney isn’t planning on restoring the OOT to include in the UHD disc package just so they can give fans a selling point other than simply “the same exact thing you can stream on D+ … but with better compression and on a disc!”

Post
#1304536
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Harmy said:

Looking at the screenshots posted so far, it does look like a new master but not necessarily a new scan, because the clarity/detail level is comparable to or worse than the 2004 masters.
It might be that they simply found the 2004 digital masters before the color grading and sharpening and upscaled them and gave them a new grade, which would have been necessary for HDR anyway.

I feel like you’re overthinking it.

This has to be from the 4k 16-bit restoration we first heard about more than five years ago. Now we know why it took so long to get out there. Disney clearly wanted to save it for their streaming service.

I was checking out the ESB duel and it looks identical to the brief glimpses we got in Reliance MediaWorks’ sizzle reel, and not like the blu-ray.

Post
#1302107
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion <em>NON SPOILER THREAD</em>
Time

canofhumdingers said:

Huh. Rogue One, to me, felt like some of the best EU from the 90’s (like the early X-wing novels and comics or the dark forces video game series) brought to live action.

This trailer feels like some of the more bizarre or “out there” 90’s EU like, say, Dark Empire. Not sure if that’s a good thing or not yet…

Gareth Edwards mentioned that he was a big Dark Forces fan iirc, and it’s been pointed out that Jyn and Cassian could totally be Jan and Kyle.

Didn’t Lucas say back in the 90’s that Dark Empire reminded him of how he would’ve handled the ST? They consulted him for IX, so maybe that explains the similarities?

Post
#1302103
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

nl0428 said:

When the Original Trilogy makes its way to 4K, it will, without a doubt, be the 2011 Special Edition. However, do you think it’s possible that Disney and Lucasfilm will at least correct both the colors and sound mixes to match the theatrical presentations and sound far less compressed?

It’s going to be from an entirely newer scan of the negative, so they’ll have to redo the color-correction anyway.

As for the sound mix, your guess is as good as mine.

Post
#1300107
Topic
Best viewing order to introduce Star Wars to children?
Time

BedeHistory731 said:

Part of me wouldn’t mind waiting, see how much they absorb from pop culture osmosis alone.

This was pretty much my experience growing up.

I got into Trek first, knowing pretty much nothing about it until my mother rented Search for Spock on vhs for me when I was five (this would’ve been 1990, so do the math). That’s kind of like going into Star Wars cold and starting with ESB or RotJ, but either way the movie blew my mind and I was hooked. I saw all five films before seeing Undiscovered Country in the theater.

Star Wars was something I just always knew about and don’t remember “discovering.” So yeah, I never had that experience of sitting down and watching Empire for the first time and finding out the big twist. My earliest clear memory of watching the “I am your father” moment for the first time was after I’d already seen RotJ on USA, and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t even part of a proper viewing of ESB but rather a clip on some making-of / retrospecticus special.

But certainly by ‘93 or ‘94 at the latest I’d seen all three from beginning to end.

Post
#1298318
Topic
Return of the Jedi 1997 Special Edition HD Reconstruction
Time

trillary dump said:

dgraham414 said:

Can’t wait until I can have my complete box set with theatrical-97-04-11 and revisited all together. For now other reason then I totally need 5 different ways to watch the same movie

I’m glad I’m not the only one who wants to make a box set like that! I’m actually trying to make three multi-disc boxsets for each movie like the Blade Runner box set!

I’ve long said that if we ever got an official set that included more versions than just the original and “most recent” (presumably revised even further from the 2011) that it should be the ‘97 that takes priority over the ‘04 and ‘11 versions, which were only ever seen on home video and tv anyway with the exception of a few screenings in theaters here and there every now and again.

But the irony is that if they really wanted to still include the ‘04 and ‘11 versions they could simply branch them onto the ‘97 disc, just as the middle disc of the Blade Runner set branched the ‘92 and both ‘82 versions. They would have to conform everything to the same color timing (preferably the ‘97 color) and they’d have to include three separate audio tracks, but it’s totally doable.

Post
#1298152
Topic
“The Ride of a Lifetime&quot; - book by Bob Iger. Lucas mention.
Time

The irony is that digital movie cameras improved by leaps and bounds in the decade following AotC’s release. We forget that the 3D rigs James Cameron used to shoot the live-action sections of Avatar were still using essentially the same 2/3” Sony cameras as George used on AotC and RotS, just with a few improvements. It was right around that time (2007) that the Red camera made its debut and started the competition between the various companies that got us to where we are now, where you shoot something digitally and emulate grain in post and no one but the most experienced cinematographers would be able to tell it wasn’t actually shot on film.

George always wanted to move beyond the photochemical realm and I suspect that had he directed Episode VII he wouldn’t have even bothered using the only then recently-available Arri Alexa 4:3 to match the Anamorphic look of the OT/TPM and just shot it in 3D using spherical optics. So we would’ve been back to the bokeh of AotC/RotS but with 35mm-or-larger-sized sensors this time, thus giving The ST its own distinct look from the OT or the PT. Back in early 2012 that’s basically how I thought it was going to go. We’d get the 3D conversions of I-VI one movie per year like Rick McCallum was saying, and then in like 2019 or 2020 we’d get George’s shot-in-3D Episode VII, kind of like ‘97/‘99 all over again but on a much longer timeline.

Then George sold the company.