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Esn

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29-Jun-2006
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2-Apr-2025
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Post
#257570
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257570/action/topic#257570
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Esn, like me I think you're hoping that a more Richard Williamsy version of the film gets properly released someday without all this mucking about.


Of course, but I'm not optimistic about the chances of it happening anytime soon. If the Weinsteins own the rights, it could be expensive for Disney to buy them back, which would eat into the budget of a potential restoration project.

Ogg's colour scheme in that scene seems more natural for some reason... was it actually the original one? EDIT: Never mind - I post slowly.
Post
#257558
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257558/action/topic#257558
Time
The most ironic headline ever: "The Weinsteins love The Theif and The Cobbler"

It seems that the Weinstein Co. is giving away these DVDs as promotional freebies - I've come across several giveaways by doing a google search. Depressing.
...

I wouldn't change my rating of the Recobbled Cut because I saw a much worse version of the film, Garret, but it has definitely made me realize just how necessary your work was (and I did know how hard you worked on it - one can't read all 80 pages of this thread and not get a sense of that). It also made me realize just how horrible it must've been for Richard Williams. The Recobbled cut itself is a version of the film that he wouldn't have dreamed of releasing into theatres (for the obvious reason that it's unfinished), but the version that WAS released was simply beyond horrible. AND it had his name attached to it. Hard to imagine what that must've been like, really.

Simply for my own viewing pleasure, I think I'll eventually try to create a kind of mix between your version and Ogg's (I don't think I'll put it up online or anything - it'll be just for me, family and a few friends). To repeat an earlier question, does anyone know why this video has a different image than either the recobbled or Ogg's cut, and where it comes from? The bricks on a tower are a different colour (light and chalky instead of bright orange), and the pencil drawings of the landscapes are much clearer than on the version that Ogg submitted to Google Video. I was just wondering if it's possible for me to obtain a high-quality version of that section somehow.
Post
#257359
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257359/action/topic#257359
Time
Good heavens. The soundtrack of the Miramax version (which I'm seeing for the first time now) is giving me a headache... Yeeaghch...

The Folk score is actually pretty good in some parts when allowed to stand on its own (the first scene with the thief being a prime example), but here it's delegated to background music - instead, we have that horrible narration by Tack and the thief. Both of their voices are very irritating. There might as well be elevator music in the background because it's so quiet compared to the voices. There are unnecessary voices everywhere - I guess the producers thought that any scene is improved by the addition of a voice. Hence, when Tack and Princess YumYum first meet in the throne room, they couldn't just have them tilt their heads in silence. No, when Tack tilts his head he has to say "hmm", then the princess tilts her head and says "hmm" and so on. It makes the entire scene completely ridiculous.

The outsourced animation is really horrible. Definitely Saturday-morning-cartoon quality.

I wish I didn't have to watch this monstrosity, but someone has to look after that wikipedia page, so I might as well.
Post
#257053
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257053/action/topic#257053
Time
Sorry if I sounded critical... as I said, I actually kinda like your version better for the most part (if nothing else, it's interesting to see how the workprint was different). I was just making some observations about things that I noticed - I'm not expecting someone to fix them. I'd do it myself if I knew how to, actually (and so... are there any programs I could use?)

Something I noticed... how come in this video, the bricks on the tower with the three balls are an earthy colour instead of orange (as in the Recobbled Cut and the released versions), and the pencil footage is easier to make out (in the Google video the background is red and it flickers)?
Post
#257010
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257010/action/topic#257010
Time
You might want to tell potential reviewers to download the iPod/PSP version, then, because the image quality on the regular google video is indeed horrible (much worse than on YouTube).

I do like your version better for the most part... a fair amount of minor annoyances that I had with the Recobbled Cut Mk. II are corrected here (this is not to belittle the many, many things that Garret did right in his version). The Tack/YumYum scene, for example, as well as the scene where King Nod is explaining the mission (it seems to flow more smoothly). Lots of little things. There are some exceptions:
-1st scenes with Tack & Cobbler (as mentioned before - far less effective without music)
-Zigzag inside the One-Eye tent (not sure what it was exactly, but the music didn't seem quite as smooth - may have been my imagination. Minor detail.)
-Zigzag saying "the greatest wizard has to know, etc" at the end (I think the animation wasn't bad in this case and not different from the storyboard, so it could've been kept. Also, it cut to ZigZag in the pit too soon after he fell into the hole - it didn't seem like he had time to actually fall)
-lack of... something in the war machine/thief scene (I'm not sure as I never watched the Williams workprint all the way through, but isn't there something where ZigZag conjures a dragon to fight Tack? Since the whole Calvert fight was cut out, perhaps that could've been added back in to balance things out)
-after the thief steals the film, the sounds stops for some reason so we don't hear him run away. I'm not entirely sure that this is a negative, to be fair - was it intentional?

There are two things that I don't like about either version, one being the musical choices for some of the comedic thief scenes (as I said in more detail in a recent post a little way back). I think I've found the perfect music to accompany the scenes with the thief and the polo ponies games, though - on my CD of Scheherazade (by the Berlin Philharmonic, recorded in 1967), it's about 6 minutes into movement 2 (movement 2 consists of "lento" - "andantino" - "allegro molto" - "vivace scherzando" - "moderato assai" - "allegro molto ed animato". It's either "allegro molto" or "vivace scherzando", I guess). I'd like to try adding it to see if it does indeed fit... are there any free programs that I could use?

The other is MeeMee saying "ugh, maybe something died". Quite frankly, the shot makes NO sense at all, since she was cut out of the previous scene (which I agree with). I don't understand why you would cut her out partially, but not completely. A viewer who hasn't seen the film suddenly sees someone answer YumYum, but has no idea who it is. The voice is different, and the way she inclines her head makes it clear that she is replying to someone, so it's pretty clear that she's not YumYum.
Post
#256979
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256979/action/topic#256979
Time
I'm just watching the beginning and I think it's a mix of the workprint and the Recobbled Cut... the lack of music certainly makes those first scenes with the Thief and Tack (before the ZigZag entrance) a lot less effective. Even boring, I'd say. I think that music added a lot.

For the most part, I do like Ogg's cut somewhat better as it tends to stay closer to Williams' version, but the lack of music in those beginning scenes probably wasn't a good idea, since most reviewers will decide whether or not they like the film by how fun to watch those first scenes are.
Post
#255028
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/255028/action/topic#255028
Time
I meant the theme that's there when the thief is being followed by the ball for example, or when he falls into the moat and climbs up the pipe. I can see the symbolic appropriateness of using it now, but I don't think it really fits the mood of the scenes - it's ok in some parts (10 seconds or so from the moment he falls into the water, for example), but in others it sounds too beautiful and dramatic. Also it's an imperfect solution, since you were still forced to resort to the Robert Folk score at the end of both of those scenes (it plays when the thief flushes himself down the pipe, and when the ball lands on that tree and he climbs down). Except that musically speaking, it doesn't make sense for the Folk score to be there now because you kept the final part of the score but removed all of the build-up (thus, the musical theme used when he falls down the pipe is now unconnected to any music that was heard before, whereas previously it was a natural progression from the music used when he was climbing UP the pipe. Ditto with the ballgame scene.)

But anyway, I'm beating a dead horse - what's done is done. Although I wonder - if I find a solution that sounds better to me, is there any way that I can put the music into the scene and burn my own DVD? I remember you posted a list of the programs you used somewhere many pages back, but I'll be damned if I can find it...
Post
#254899
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254899/action/topic#254899
Time
Here's the thread, by the way, where David Boulet describes the new DVD:
link

On an unrelated note, I bought a CD of Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade today and it was insane how much the music reminded me of the film - I didn't realize how much of it Williams used. It's practically the soundtrack of the film! It also explains why Garret decided to use that melodic theme for the thief in the Mk II DVD... I still don't think it actually fits the mood of any of the scenes that the thief is in, but at least I see a reason for it now.

By the way, did someone steal the package that Garret sent to Richard Williams, was it lost, or what? Seems odd...
Post
#251275
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/251275/action/topic#251275
Time
Wow, that's hilarious! Thanks for telling the story and posting the link, Garret! Youtube is low quality, true... but it's better than nothing. That reminds me, I wanted to ask - does anyone know of any good free program that can compress video (ex. AVI) files? For example, let's say I want to compress a 640x480 109meg AVI file to a 320x240, 100meg (max) AVI file.

Yes, I do want to upload something to youtube... it's loosely related to "Cobbler" (well, in a roundabout way, anyway - still, it may interest animation fans) and I want it to have the best possible quality on Youtube. I HAVE seen some good-quality films on Youtube, and would like to do the same.
Post
#247907
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247907/action/topic#247907
Time
I replaced that awful 2005 DVD cover on the wikipedia page with the one from a few posts back (it was cut off on the right so I fixed that as best I could). It's a bit of an odd poster, and is rather asymmetrical, but it's a lot better than having that ugly DVD artwork represent the film... I also uploaded Ogg's PNG file.

One idea for that DVD cover from Iceland is, instead of the Cannes artwork, to have JUST the beautiful Thief logo (with the thief coming out of the O, like the one that Ogg posted) on the front cover, centralized. I can see that working very well - it would look a bit like the front of the Lord of the Rings special edition DVDs, except more ornate.

Of course, instead of the thief on the back cover you would then need to have something else there - maybe ZigZag with the cards from the Cannes poster, or One-Eye.
Post
#244766
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244766/action/topic#244766
Time
Is Ogg the guy from 3 posts back?... well, I might like that version a bit better but the Calvert cut isn't too bad either (even though it does ruin the suspense somewhat). What's really interesting about it is that it shows how badly the Calvert team coloured those excellent pencils. As soon as it switches to the pencil outlines, it's suddenly a lot more impressive, whereas the Calvert-coloured stuff looks rather cheap. What about that music at the beginning when Zigzag speaks? It's not in the Recobbled Cut... is it really by Robert Folk? It just seems odd because it sounds like it ties into the menacing fly-over music.

Do you think Ogg would mind if I put that avi file up on Youtube (giving him credit of course)? It deserves to be out there, I think.
Post
#244596
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244596/action/topic#244596
Time
The thing is, you can TELL immediately that it's Calvert's characters... it's jarring. Instead of looking "mildly annoyed but smiling" (which is the emotion that you would expect of Nanny if she actually liked Tack), she all of a sudden looks extremely angry, whereas just a second before she had said in a very pleasant voice, "your bath is ready my dear". Why does she suddenly become so angry?

That's what I meant when I said that the scene flows better with the Williams cut - it's more believable. Nanny tapping her foot and getting impatient with the princess has the potential to be funny, but because there's no buildup to the joke it just ends up not making sense (it's the equivalent of those early silent Keystone comedies where kicking somebody in the butt WAS the joke... it took Charlie Chaplin to realize that it's funnier if the person DESERVES to be kicked, and that maxim is still as true today as it ever was).

Omar's DVD cover is very well-done... I wonder if he could add the "Thief and the Cobbler" logo with the thief coming out of the "O" to it (that version on the second DVD cover seems pretty high-resolution to me...). Although it's true that the Cannes art doesn't quite represent the film correctly, it still looks quite good on its own merits and would arouse the interest of someone looking at it, I think. Maybe I just like the "aged book look" of the DVD cover... I'll have email him eventually to ask for a high-res image.

By the way, has anybody found any reviews of the new Arabian Knight DVD online?
Post
#244582
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244582/action/topic#244582
Time
Woohoo, I got my DVDs! First of all I must say that the commentary track is fabulous. I usually don't like commentaries much, but this one was exceptional. It's hard to imagine that any official release could do much better. Your insights were really interesting, especially the info into who animated what and where. Since I'd only seen the Youtube version before I was surprised at many of the new music choices - a lot of them worked really well.

I also got a chance to see the Williams workprint for the first time, as well as part of the Fred Calvert workprint (oh my God! The calamity!) and... well, I'm sure you've heard this one before, but just a comment:

The Calvert version has that subplot with the nanny dissaproving of the princess's attraction to Tack, while in the Williams workprint she seems to genuinely like him. There's one scene in particular, right after Nanny says "your bath is ready, my dear", where the Recobbled Cut follows the Calvert story and character interpretation more closely. We see Nanny get very angry, and Yum Yum blush for what must be the 20th time before she gets pushed away by Nanny. In Williams' version Nanny does not get angry and Yum Yum waves Tack a little goodbye before leaving of her own accord. Yes, I know that you used Calvert animation where you could, and I don't disagree with the sentiment but the entire scene lasts only a few short seconds and yet keeping the Calvert footage in those few short seconds is enough to completely change Nanny's personality for the worse, as well as make Princess Yum Yum appear to be less independent.

Sorry about that - I don't really have any right to mention what I think you did wrong when there are SO many more things that you did right with this restoration, but now that I've seen the Williams workprint I feel quite strongly that his cut should've been used - even though it's storyboards, a few seconds of them can't hurt when the alternative is to screw up a character (also, the scene flows better with the Williams cut, since there's less repetition - how many times can Yum Yum blush?). Just in case you ever do make a Mk. III, I think you should consider it.

I haven't looked at most of the stuff on the DVDs yet... I'll get around to it, it's quite a lot! One thing that intrigued me was an image of a DVD cover for the Recobbled Cut that used the Cannes brochure painting on the front and had all sorts of intricate designs, as well as the "Once..." logo on the back. I've never seen that one online anywhere - is that the case that you sent to Richard Williams?
Post
#243069
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/243069/action/topic#243069
Time
Someone just removed the Sean Connery (Tack) and Ed. E. Carrol (Thief) voice credits from the wikipedia article. Here's the edit (clicky).

I'm wondering - does anybody have any proof that they were indeed there? I know that Tack has that one line in the end, but how do you know that it is Sean Connery? And I don't remember the thief speaking at all in the Recobbled Cut, so I'm confused about how he could have a voice... unless it was that laugh that he made after his hands weren't cut off...
Post
#242285
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/242285/action/topic#242285
Time
Well, no - you couldn't have sent my package any earlier than August 29, which is only 8 days ago and I think you sent out everyone's DVDs a few days before that. Anyway, like I said I don't really expect it to arrive too soon - things can often take a while to move between the US and Canada because Canadian Customs take their damn sweet time with it. I'd only start worrying a bit if it hasn't arrived a month after you sent it.

Great news about the poster, macronencer! Will the scan be available anywhere for the rest of us to see/download (a lower resolution one, perhaps)?
Post
#242170
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/242170/action/topic#242170
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie

And I'm waiting for my new DVD burner to arrive, been waiting for a week now. Grrr. My old burner burned out - the fourth I've gone through in less than 2 years. I go through about a burner every 4 months. Which is pretty costly too.

My apologies if yours is one I didn't send yet. (I don't know your real name, Esn.)


Well, I'm the guy from Toronto who ordered the 4 Thief DVDs and "Gods of Los Angeles"... that sucks about your DVD burner, though. Don't any of them come with a 1-year warranty or something? It may cost more initially, but buying cheap often costs more in the end, I find.
Post
#242051
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/242051/action/topic#242051
Time
Originally posted by: TServo2049

This is the same Harvey Weinstein who oversaw the re-editing, rewriting, rescoring, and celebrity-cast English dubbing of René Laloux's "Gandahar," retitled "Light Years," then had the audacity to give himself a director credit, ABOVE Laloux's.


Whoah... I've been looking for this movie. Is the English version really that much worse? I noticed that Isaac Asimov (a scientist and author whom I very much respect) revised the translation.

Anyway... 5 days until the 1st DVD release. I might pick it up if I see it sold somewhere cheap, just out of curiosity (and because that brigands song actually sounded catchy). But mainly I'm still waiting for Garrett's DVDs to arrive.

By the way, Garrett, have you had a lot of international orders?