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Esn

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29-Jun-2006
Last activity
5-Dec-2019
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Post
#1308211
Topic
Da Nao Tian Gong -- The Monkey King - Uproar In Heaven (1965) RESTORATION *v2*
Time

satanika said:
Uproar.In.Heaven.Fan.Restoration.v2.0
Video: 708x532 (4:3) x264
Audio: Mandarin AC3, English narration AC3, Danish narration AC3 (unchanged from v1)
Subtitles: English, English (unchanged from v1)

Thank you! I got v2 thanks to ElectricTriangle and watched a bit just now. It looks great, much better than I was expecting given the other versions I’ve seen floating around. And the original film, IMO, is definitely nicer than the 2012 re-release. I’m looking forward to watching the whole thing.

There are still a few little grammatical things in the English subtitles, so far, but they’re not a big deal (things like “500 hundred”, which one would read as “five hundred hundred”). The first English subtitles seem to be closer to the original Chinese, so I prefer watching with those, whereas the second ones seem more of a “free” translation (or at least that was my impression, though I don’t know Chinese).

By the way, does anybody know where to get the other subtitles that were apparently included in v1 but not in v2, such as the Chinese subtitles? I’d just like them for completion…

Post
#280298
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut
Time
You can find it at mininova.org, as well (search for the keywords: thief cobbler). Downloading is the preffered method, unless you simply must have it sent on DVD for one reason or another. If you want to donate to Garret for his work (which seems to be what you're saying), I assume you're free to do that - just as long as it's clear you understand that you're under no pressure to do so, since the Recobbled Cut is available for free online.

For any further possible news about Cobbler material, details can be found in the link in my signature (you should also go there if you want to find Garret, since he can't post on this forum).
Post
#276508
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut
Time
Leaving aside the legitimacy of Garret's banning for the moment (please let's not go there - the admins did as they thought it best and we'll leave it at that), I think both sides can agree that this is one preservation project to which his presence has been integral.

I don't think we should close this thread, but I agree that we should encourage everyone to move over there, so that the bulk of the discussion moves there. We can keep this thread open in case there are any major announcements. You know, maybe future members of this board will be interested - if we close the thread, we move this project to a much less visible place on the internet.

So from now on, I'll have the link to that thread in my signature so that any newcomers will see it. Perhaps everyone else should do the same.
Post
#276183
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut
Time
When copyright is concerned, you've got to tread on eggshells, especially if you live in the United States; the US has powerfull lobby groups which can and do force law enforcement officials into overreacting on such matters.

Although a screening of the Recobbled Cut would be a great idea, please try to make sure that there will be absolutely no grounds for anyone to get in trouble because of it. In fact, could the very possession of the DVD be illegal? I wouldn't rule it out, given the amount of BS I've been hearing lately. In that case, it might be best not to advertise this fact and keep the information within a small group of people whom you trust.

By the way, I think that a good idea for a "Thief in a Box" release might be to give people who ask for them the materials to make their own version of the film and provide them with various different "raw" visuals, soundtrack files and scores (so that, for example, if they wish to use the alternate Flyover scene, they can add it in).

On a somewhat unrelated note, check this out, and then check out the English-dubbed version that Chris gave the link to in the comments. I got deja vu from watching the dubbed version; it reminded me of watching the Miramax cut of TatC after having watched the Recobbled Cut first. I'd say you could even compare those two versions in a class to teach students how easy it is to ruin a great film.
Post
#267323
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut
Time
Originally posted by: OgOggilby

I'm thinking of somehow creating a "Cobbler in a Box" that would take everything ocp has put out and convert it all to MP4 video so it could fit onto two DVD-Rs via a torrent zip file.

I was a bit annoyed to find out that Google Video doesn't let you download the original MP4 videos I uploaded, but rather downscaled and re-compressed versions of those. All this time, I assumed they let you download the originals. This is purely aimed towards those who want to view it on a computer (or iPod/PSP), but very high quality.


Heh, now you know why I asked you for those materials from your "alternative recobbled cut" edit a while back. I want to make my own cut for personal use, combining what I see as the best elements from your cut and Garret's. I certainly wish that I could just download them from Google. Could you possibly break the files up into sections and put them up for download at some download websites? Many of those sites allow up to 300mb files.

I just don't trust torrents, sorry - the process is very slow for me and it seems that it's like opening your computer up to malicious software. It seems safer to download something from just one website.
Post
#265404
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut
Time
Originally posted by: SilverWook
Unearthed Films did a superb job with Rock and Rule.


I heard as much. But a "Thief" release would be a much harder job than "Rock & Rule", if for the simple reason that "Rock & Rule" was already a finished film.

Ogg, did you mention that "Holy Grail of Animation" discussion that recently took place among animation fans in your letters to the companies? There was quite a strong showing for "Thief" over there, which seems to suggest that more and more people are hearing about this.

Also, do you think it would help if any of us emailed some of these companies as well?
Post
#265214
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut
Time
Hmm... some quite interesting things in that thread. If nothing else, there's the possibility of finding another excellent lost scene from the film.

I won't expect anything from that anonymous poster until something concrete actually happens, though. What I wonder is that if they're going to go ahead with this, what will Richard Williams' role be? On the one hand he seems to want nothing to do with the Thief nowadays (since he's working on a new film, apparently, and his mind is elsewhere) - on the other hand, I simply can't imagine an authentic, official restoration being done without Williams' involvement and approval.

Do you know more about this than you're telling us, Ogg?
Post
#261866
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut
Time
The 1952 version of the film you mention was actually an incomplete film which was released against the will of its director; eventually the director won back the rights to the film and was able to finish it. The final version was released in either 1967 or 1980 - there seems to be some contradictory information...

The film also had a big influence on Hayao Miyazaki. Here's a DVD Review (some interesting comments at the bottom). The film is one of the great classics of European animation, but the French have this nasty, annoying habit of keeping their best films to themselves and not releasing them in the English-speaking world. Hence, there is no actual DVD available of the real version of the film with English subtitles (though there are some cheapie dollar-store DVDs of the 1952 version dubbed with English voices).

By the way, here's another "trailer" from the Prince Vladimir film that was released this February... shame that it's on Youtube and at low quality, but it does show some hints of some really good animation (check out that flying-camera scene 2 minutes in) and show that it's a pretty dark film (much of the audience was dismayed to find that it's not really suitable for children, apparently). This is another one that unfortunately probably won't be released with English subtitles. Even the high-profile European animated films tend to stay in Europe, and often never even leave the country where they were made (especially true of Russia).
Post
#261859
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut
Time
That Ken Harris interview is really interesting. Thanks for posting it.

Since this thread is in a bit of a rut currently, I'll post some great examples of animation that I've found recently.

http://www.pascalblais.com/it_petrov_09.html
http://www.pascalblais.com/it_petrov_08.html
^Aleksandr Petrov, a commercial and a recent short film that'll hopefully win the Oscar

Prince Vladimir (click on the 25,66 Mb link)
Street Musique (the first little bit is live action)
Post
#260218
Topic
"Banning of OCPMovie"
Time
I must say that I'm very dissappointed in this whole situation.

I loved Garret's work on "The Thief and the Cobbler". I know that this is a Star Wars board and not many people here care about that, but there are many members here now who post mainly in that enormous 82-page-long thread, without visiting the rest of the forum much. For us, his work is absolutely irreplaceable, as are the contacts he's gained with the people who worked on the film. Let us make something very clear now: the people whom Garret sent copies to are NOT the people who own the film, or who have a lot of influence in the higher echelons of corporate management. They are the people who worked their hearts out on the film before the Completion Bond Company took it away from them and fired them all. Garret's work on the "Thief and the Cobbler" project has been much-needed (all of the video/DVD releases of the film were and are absolute, utter crap) and I haven't seen the slightest hint of false hype or unfair profit-making from him. On the contrary, he's often given out freebies along with the DVDs that he sends.

However, based on what other people here are saying, I see that this is not the whole story, and this saddens me. Did it really not work to simply ask him to not sell other people's restorations for $10 on his website? Was banning him really the last resort that the admins went to after trying out all of the other possibilities?

Can't you guys reach some sort of compromise? If I understand this correctly, he's not selling other people's work out of this website but out of his own website... this is immoral, but... is it against the rules? And are other people who do this (while not directly advertising the fact on this board) ALSO identified and banned?
Post
#258469
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut
Time
I think that most people, even those who know the quotation (which probably isn't most, especially not kids), wouldn't make the connection until the last scene anyway. And even if someone DOES see what's coming, so what? They wouldn't know HOW ZigZag would be betrayed, so it would still be a surprise and something to watch for. And in any case, this is beating a dead horse... but I do wonder why the name was changed. "Phido" is funny, true, but not quite so appropriate.
Post
#258368
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut
Time
I just realized something... this has probably been mentioned before in this thread, but just in case:

Phido's original name from Nasruddin, "Brutay", is identical in pronounciation to "Et tu, Brutè?", the last words spoken by Julius Caesar when he saw his long-time friend Brutus in the crowd that was about to kill him. Not only would this name fit Phido's role in the story VERY well (ZigZag even says those very last words at the end), but it now also makes sense why ZigZag keeps saying "eh, Phido?", which is one of the only things he says in the film that doesn't rhyme (frankly, it's quite jarring). Originally, of course, this would've been "eh, Brutay?".

It's brilliant. So brilliant, I really, REALLY wonder why the name wasn't kept.
Post
#257749
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut
Time
Originally posted by: OgOggilby
it doesn't make any sense for the Nurse to smile at Tack fixing her glasses, then immediately being a jerk.


Yeah, that was one of the reasons that I didn't like how that scene was handled in Recobbled Mk.II (though Garret's argument was that it was just a bit of harmless fun for the nurse to get mad and push Yumyum away - and to be fair, no cut of the film will ever make sense to everybody).

Thanks for uploading that video - I'll try watching it later tonight or tommorow.
Post
#257570
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Esn, like me I think you're hoping that a more Richard Williamsy version of the film gets properly released someday without all this mucking about.


Of course, but I'm not optimistic about the chances of it happening anytime soon. If the Weinsteins own the rights, it could be expensive for Disney to buy them back, which would eat into the budget of a potential restoration project.

Ogg's colour scheme in that scene seems more natural for some reason... was it actually the original one? EDIT: Never mind - I post slowly.
Post
#257558
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut
Time
The most ironic headline ever: "The Weinsteins love The Theif and The Cobbler"

It seems that the Weinstein Co. is giving away these DVDs as promotional freebies - I've come across several giveaways by doing a google search. Depressing.
...

I wouldn't change my rating of the Recobbled Cut because I saw a much worse version of the film, Garret, but it has definitely made me realize just how necessary your work was (and I did know how hard you worked on it - one can't read all 80 pages of this thread and not get a sense of that). It also made me realize just how horrible it must've been for Richard Williams. The Recobbled cut itself is a version of the film that he wouldn't have dreamed of releasing into theatres (for the obvious reason that it's unfinished), but the version that WAS released was simply beyond horrible. AND it had his name attached to it. Hard to imagine what that must've been like, really.

Simply for my own viewing pleasure, I think I'll eventually try to create a kind of mix between your version and Ogg's (I don't think I'll put it up online or anything - it'll be just for me, family and a few friends). To repeat an earlier question, does anyone know why this video has a different image than either the recobbled or Ogg's cut, and where it comes from? The bricks on a tower are a different colour (light and chalky instead of bright orange), and the pencil drawings of the landscapes are much clearer than on the version that Ogg submitted to Google Video. I was just wondering if it's possible for me to obtain a high-quality version of that section somehow.
Post
#257359
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut
Time
Good heavens. The soundtrack of the Miramax version (which I'm seeing for the first time now) is giving me a headache... Yeeaghch...

The Folk score is actually pretty good in some parts when allowed to stand on its own (the first scene with the thief being a prime example), but here it's delegated to background music - instead, we have that horrible narration by Tack and the thief. Both of their voices are very irritating. There might as well be elevator music in the background because it's so quiet compared to the voices. There are unnecessary voices everywhere - I guess the producers thought that any scene is improved by the addition of a voice. Hence, when Tack and Princess YumYum first meet in the throne room, they couldn't just have them tilt their heads in silence. No, when Tack tilts his head he has to say "hmm", then the princess tilts her head and says "hmm" and so on. It makes the entire scene completely ridiculous.

The outsourced animation is really horrible. Definitely Saturday-morning-cartoon quality.

I wish I didn't have to watch this monstrosity, but someone has to look after that wikipedia page, so I might as well.
Post
#257053
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut
Time
Sorry if I sounded critical... as I said, I actually kinda like your version better for the most part (if nothing else, it's interesting to see how the workprint was different). I was just making some observations about things that I noticed - I'm not expecting someone to fix them. I'd do it myself if I knew how to, actually (and so... are there any programs I could use?)

Something I noticed... how come in this video, the bricks on the tower with the three balls are an earthy colour instead of orange (as in the Recobbled Cut and the released versions), and the pencil footage is easier to make out (in the Google video the background is red and it flickers)?