Emre1601

yotsuya said:

Emre1601 said:

Yotsuya, when mental gymnastics, or going down the proverbial rabbit hole, are required to try to explain inconsistencies and stretches like those listed in the OP, it indicates there are indeed issues in the series.

I enjoyed Obi-Wan Kenobi overall; there was much to enjoy in it, but could not help but notice the many issues I listed in the opening post. For me, it affected my appreciation of the show, and gives me concern for future Star Wars content when there are so many noticeable issues in a much anticipated and high profile series. Though everyone’s “mileage may vary” on this, and am happy that many others did enjoy it, regardless of such issues.

It is partly why I look forward to new Star Wars content away from what has come before. With new characters, in new or rarely seen settings, and in new eras. As from a consistency point of view, it has been demonstrated time and time again there is a real problem with adhering to what was actually established in the Original Trilogy.

I don’t require any mental gymnastics. I kept checking off things that explained what had previously required mental gymnastics. But I didn’t see anything that made new ones.

You literally introduced some mental gymnastics in your first paragraph of your post to me:

yotsuya said:

Well, the thing is that Lucas created quite a few issues between the OT and PT that were never dealt with until this series.

Padme dies and Leia was already taken away from her and yet she has memories of her mother. When Kenobi is around her in this series, she constantly reminds him if Padme. And there are several examples where Leia is obviously using the force to read minds and she could easily have seen Kenobi’s memories of her mother. She could also have seen some memories from bail as well.

Even if your “obvious” claim is taken as fact, along with your use of “could” ofs, when Luke asks Leia in ROTJ “Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?”, Leia does not reply or infer “Nothing at all. But I read the minds of others around me who were thinking about her when I was young, and so I will now present the memories from those others to you, as my own”.

Nor is Luke asking Leia for others thoughts of Leia’s mother.

This is an impressive feat of mental gymnastics you are introducing as some sort of justification.

But yes, we all agree Lucas did “create quite a few issues between the OT and PT”, but this series did not deal with them very much at all. As is listed in the OP, this series appears to add to these issues.
 

Leia’s powers are subtle and are never manifested. Vader doesn’t sense her power. Kenobi doesn’t sense her power. Luke doesn’t sense her power. Yoda says there is another, another Skykwalker and Kenobi says it is her. So only Yoda picked up on it. Even the inquisitors didn’t pick up on it. So her power must also provide some cloaking. She isn’t a skilled pilot or mechanic like her brother and father. She is a skilled diplomat and politician like her mother. So no one notices she has great power and how it does manifest itself aids her in what she is good at.

“Cloaking”? What? You seem to be using possible skillsets years in the future to justify the now. Luke does sense some of Leia’s ability in the being able to communicate by telepathy between the two of them in Empire Strikes Back. And in the ST we are shown that Leia was trained by Luke, so he does sense her power and abilities. Vader is impressed with her ability to resist the probe droid in SW: ANH. But Kenobi doesn’t get anywhere near her in Star Wars: ANH, up to the point of letting Vader strike him down.

Yet Leia actually directly tells Reva what Reva’s fears are during the failed interrogation on the Inquisitor Base, where Leia is able to resist Reva’s mind probe, and Reva is taken aback by it. So it is incorrect to say the Inquisitors do not pick up on it.
 

Why would Kenobi make up the story about Vader betraying and murdering Anakin? Either he is hiding things from Luke, or now, he is using Vader’s own explanation. But there is no need to tell Luke where it came from. He tells Luke that certain things can be true from a certain point of view. Not just this. So he used it as a teaching moment.

We know he didn’t make it up. We all know it is to hide the later retcon of Vader and Anakin now being the same person, and presented as a “stretch” in ROTJ. Yet why make the line of dialogue in Star Wars: ANH worse, or more noticeable, by now having Vader literally say to Obi-Wan that “I killed Anakin”, which certainly now jars even more with Kenobi’s line in Star Wars: ANH.
 

And for the most part, this series is a few days where a few people call him Obi-wan again, but mostly they call him Ben. So he is exaggerating a bit when he says he hasn’t used that name since before Luke was born. Even the original dialog provides some leeway. And it isn’t like he stopped being called Obi-wan before Luke was actually born even without this series. The Jedi were destroyed before Luke was born and he is likely marking that as when he ceased being called obi-wan, even if that is not quite true per Ep III. This series doesn’t really change that. It just reveals a few people did call him that in a brief episodes.

He doesn’t seem to be exaggerating when he said this line of dialogue at all. If you are going down the well-trodden path of the “crazy, forgetful and unreliable Ben” excuse many Prequel fans often use in an attempt to justify some of those discrepancies between the PT and OT to do so, that is up to you.

“A few people call him Obi Wan” and “a few people did call him that in a brief episodes” still results in him hearing the name Obi-Wan Kenobi on a number of occasions within the last 8-9 years. So not “That’s a name I haven’t hears in a long time. A long time.”, when you watch the scene back, the emphasis is also on “a long time” part of the dialogue.
 

One of the things about stories is that you have to apply a dose of reality to them. Taking every single quote as 100% fact does not reflect how most people talk. Most conversations have short cuts, incomplete statements, hyperbole, and don’t reflect the absolute truth. It is rare that someone can accurately relate the specific time since an event, like Sheldon Cooper, C-3PI, Mr. Spock, or Data constantly do. Most just throw out something that is roughly correct and writers write with that in mind. In fact writers are often more exact that real people ever are. Someone might throw out that something happened seven years ago in a conversation, but in reality it was 9 years ago. Times might be rounded up or down. And that is just the vagueness of time in conversations. Taking every word of dialog at face value is not a good way of checking realistic continuity (unless you have one of those very exact characters).

With respect, mistaking a couple of years is much different from mistaking 20 years for 9-10 years, and we know he isn’t making a mistake when he says the line of dialogue in Star Wars: ANH.

A “dose of reality required”? It is obvious Obi-Wan when states “That’s a name I haven’t hears in a long time. A long time” he is being accurate, truthful, and not mistaken; especially given the other line of dialogue from Obi Wan in Star Wars: ANH, dating these events around the same time of: “I haven’t gone by the name of Obi-Wan since, oh, before you were born”.
 

And Star Wars has always put the drama first. Things are not always described in great detail. The vagueness helps keep the hood on the magic behind the scenes. That is why Midichlorians were so objectionable - they opened the hood a bit and reduced the magic of the story telling.

So while there may be a few new quirks to the storyline because of this series, I think this series addressed most things well and answered more questions that it made. And any that it made are minor.

It is good you believe that, and I said in the OP, everyone has a different POV and everyone’s mileage on these isuses may vary. Obviously, we have a different point of view and disagree. But there is evidence of such discrepancies, stretches and issues listed in the OP, no matter some of the mental gymnastics resorted to in an attempt to dismiss some of the issues that people noticed in the series.

I am repeating myself, but it actually highlights how far down a rabbit hole people have to go to try and explain or justify some of these issues, inconsistencies and stretches; or somehow claiming these “issues between the OT and PT” are being addressed or “dealt with” in this series; and still come up short.

I look forward to your own thread where you claim watching this series meant you “kept checking off things that explained what had previously required mental gymnastics”. I honestly do. With respect. Emre.

Yotsuya, when mental gymnastics, or going down the proverbial rabbit hole, are required to try to explain inconsistencies and stretches like those listed in the OP, it indicates there are indeed issues in the series.

I enjoyed Obi-Wan Kenobi overall; there was much to enjoy in it, but could not help but notice the many issues I listed in the opening post. For me, it affected my appreciation of the show, and gives me concern for future Star Wars content when there are so many noticeable issues in a much anticipated and high profile series. Though everyone’s “mileage may vary” on this, and am happy that many others did enjoy it, regardless of such issues.

It is partly why I look forward to new Star Wars content away from what has come before. With new characters, in new or rarely seen settings, and in new eras. As from a consistency point of view, it has been demonstrated time and time again there is a real problem with adhering to what was actually established in the Original Trilogy.

Obi-Wan Kenobi Movie Trilogy Was Planned Before Disney+ (Exclusive) - at The Direct

‘Obi-Wan Kenobi writer Stuart Beattie talked about his role in making the Ewan McGregor-starring project and how it was originally imagined as “a full trilogy.” Beattie was credited as a writer for Episodes 1, 2, 3, and the season finale of the series.’
 

That sounds great, and I wish a Kenobi film trilogy would have happened. And it was good to read what the original writer’s process was, how his film script was turned into this series, but sad to read he was “devastated” when he found out the project was no longer going ahead as a movie.

A few issues that the Kenobi series may have upon the Original Trilogy films, events surrounding them, or other Star Wars releases. Along with some in-series issues too. With accompanying images, screenshots and memes.

I did originally post this in the Kenobi thread, but thought it useful to have its own thread, so it is easier to find, now the Kenobi series has finished. I’ll add any new updates, additions or revisions in here (but not in the original post in the Kenobi thread).

Not everyone will agree with some of the topics listed below, or the descriptions of these issues, and that is okay. Everyone’s mileage may vary. For some fans, the topics listed in here may not even be considered issues, inconsistencies or stretches.

I’m not a Star Wars fan who hates anything outside of the Original Trilogy, or auto-dislikes Disney Star Wars. For me, some of it has been great, some mediocre, and some of it underwhelming or poor. Many of us have been looking forward to this series for a long time; a much anticipated story, one that bridges the PT and OT, and Ewan McGregor returning to do justice to Alec Guinness’ iconic role. I did enjoy the series for the most part, but like a number of others, there were some noticeable issues.

Nearly 20 years we thought, nearly two decades, a generation. Now instead only 8-9 years. Not such a long time, now.

The emphasis on “a long time” in his line of dialogue is also noteworthy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=031vKBPk5eA

It is a fair point highlighted by Vader. If Kenobi survived 10 years of the Jedi Purges, with the Empire and Vader looking for him, then Kenobi could have easily survived 8/9 years after the their last encounter, and Vader has also stopped looking for him since their last meeting, upon orders from Emperor given in episode 6 of Kenobi.

If Vader can stop a ship leaving a port or taking off, and pull it to the floor like he did in the Kenobi series, then he would also be able to repeat this in later Star Wars releases too? On the Tantive or Falcon, maybe?

Probably the largest problem in the series is the ever increasing bond between Obi-Wan and Leia. As others here have stated (much of this is from adywan, but not his exact words): “the more they progress with this bond between them, the more she comes across as a heartless bitch in Star Wars ANH. Kenobi risked everything for her, and they both developed this close bond. But she doesn’t even react when seeing him again just before he lets himself be struck down by Vader in ANH. Yet Luke, who has known him for 5 minutes, reacts the opposite way? In the scenes on the Falcon after they escape the Death Star too. Wow. This now calls her character into question. It should never have been Leia in this Kenobi story. There is also no peril in the story because we know who must live to appear in later stories.”

In this instance in ROTJ, it also doesn’t make Obi-Wan look good. Given their bond, him knowing exactly who Leia is, her force sensitivity, and many other skills, attributes and abilities he listed about her that she had inherited from her parents in the last episode of the series, even more so.

Vader saying “You didn’t kill Anakin Skywalker… I did”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAWBeA9LTRE

To me this dialogue renders Obi-Wan in ROTJ telling Luke his “from a certain point of view” story about Vader murdering his father being true as now being quite strange. These words comes from Vader’s own mouth, so it was NOT a deception, or anywhere near a big a stretch as previously, or “from a certain point of view” on Kenobi’s part, in Return Of The Jedi.
 

Luke: “Why didn’t you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father!”

Obi-Wan: “Your father was seduced by the dark side of the force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man that was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true… from a certain point of view.”

Once again Obi-Wan was in a situation where he has Vader beaten and at his mercy, he can end the suffering of many others to come… and yet Kenobi just lets him walk away.

Knowing what has occurred in the galaxy since he left Anakin defeated on Mustafar last time, knowing what Vader has done to innocent people in the years since (not just the men, but the women and children too), and something he has seen for himself first hand on Maputo, when Vader killed the civilians in the street to goad Obi-Wan into action. That Vader would go on to murder, destroy, oppress, over and over again, and that no-one else has been, or is likely to, be able to stop him.

This really is a poor decision, and writing, to have Kenobi 10 years on in a situation where he has Vader, a “master of evil”, beaten again, and yet instead simply walks away, for a second time.

Instead, years later in ROTJ, Obi-Wan will instead persuade Luke to go and kill Vader, something he did not do himself on two prior occasions now, at the cost of countless lives. When Luke refuses this in ROTJ and says “I can’t kill my own father”, Obi-Wan responds with “then the Emperor has already won”.
 

On the scene: it was basically a homage, or repeat, to what had previously been done years ago in the Rebels animated series:-

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Kenobi-Movie-Show-Spoilers/id/56268/page/48#1489887 - jedi_bendu’s post on this issue
 

There are also many “similarities”, homages, “they rhyme”, or rip-offs, with Jedi: Fallen Order video game and episode 4, here:-

https://screenrant.com/obi-wan-kenobi-episode-4-jedi-fallen-order

Vader vs Kenobi duel continued.

There is also an issue of Kenobi’s strength with the Force during the time period of exile on Tatooine, to this era in the series, through to their duel in Star Wars: ANH.

These past 10 years Obi-Wan has cut himself off from the Force and his “force powers” have understandably become weakened. They have somewhat returned to Kenobi during this series, but were not enough to beat Vader. Not enough until he calls on the Force using his will to protect the Skywalker twins (with images of Luke & Leia running through his mind). Kenobi is then able to hand out a comprehensive beat down on Vader.

Yet 8-9 later Vader will taunt Kenobi when they meet again on the Death Star: “Your powers are weak, old man”. This is at the start of the duel and well before Obi-Wan lets Vader strike him down. However, this time around Obi-Wan hasn’t cut himself off from the Force for the past 8-9 years. He has been communing with Qui-Gon and Yoda, continuing the training that Yoda had for him now that he can converse with Qui-Gon again. Probably along with other practicing of Force abilities during this time too. So why are Kenobi’s powers now so weak?

A 3 minute clip of the lightsaber fight on the Death Star: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2rGRQ4MPbw

Also, Vader should now be far more wary and mindful during their duel in Star Wars: ANH. Yes, Vader had easily bested Obi-Wan on Jabiim. Vader had also looked to have easily beaten Obi-Wan when Kenobi’s force powers were “weak” in their last duel, up to where Vader buries him the under rocks. Yet Obi-Wan then absolutely gave this “master of evil” a comprehensive hands-down beating and could have easily ended Vader there and then. So on the Death Star, surely Vader should be a little concerned this fight is starting to look like a repeat of their previous duel, a duel he lost so badly, he was fortunate to escape with his life?

We obviously know this cannot happen, but it is concerning the writers of this Kenobi series seemingly didn’t think this through, or maybe thought it was somehow "viable within canon to play that card?“.

I did originally think Obi-Wan telling young Leia their connection must be kept a secret, to protect both of them from danger, was a good bypass or excuse for the “hologram message issue” from Leia in the Original Trilogy. But on further thought, this doesn’t make sense given the gravity of the situation Leia finds herself in when making and sending the message to Obi-Wan in the OT.

"General Kenobi. Years ago, you served my father in the Clone Wars; now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the Empire. I regret that I am unable to present my father’s request to you in person; but my ship has fallen under attack and I’m afraid my mission to Alderaan has failed. I’ve placed information vital to the survival of the Rebellion into the memory systems of this R2 unit. My father will know how to retrieve it. You must see this droid safely delivered to him on Alderaan. This is our most desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi; you’re my only hope".

All seems lost for Leia in this moment, and given what the hologram message says, continuing to pretend that she has no past affiliation or connection with Kenobi, will certainly not protect her or him in this situation. So creating the hologram message as if she has not met or knows of Kenobi, except through what her father told her, still makes no sense.

The Inquisitors know about this link and surely would have followed it up. At least they or the Empire would have been keeping Bail Organa under close watch, his meetings with others, and also his whereabouts. Maybe even being aware of Bail sneaking off to visit Tatooine in person. The same would also likely apply to Leia, given her being promptly rescued twice by Obi-Wan Kenobi, once from Imperial incarceration and questioning, and also her time spent on the run with other wanted force sensitive fugitives.

Obi-Wan is no longer “living in hiding” when on this mission to rescue Leia, and is inconsistent with Bail’s conversation with Mon Mothma in the Rogue One film:

Mon Mothma: “Despite what the others say, war is inevitable.”

Bail Organa: “Yes, I agree. I must return to Alderaan to inform my people that there will be no peace. We will need every advantage.”

Mon Mothma: “Your friend… the Jedi.”

Bail Organa: “He served me well during the Clone Wars and has lived in hiding since the Emperor’s purge. Yes, I will send for him.”

a 30 second video of the above scene from Rogue One: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqb1oj4sEEM

Some self contained issues in the Obi-Wan Kenobi series:

Why did Obi-Wan even disconnect from the force and bury the lightsabers if he’s supposed to be watching over and protecting Luke? With the aim of training him when the time comes (we even see him ask Uncle Owen about this in episode 1). How did he expect to be able to do that without his weapons, buried somewhere out in the desert, or cutting himself off from the Force?

At the end of episode 2 Reva reveals to Kenobi that Anakin Skywalker is alive, with some great acting by Ewan in reaction to this. However, how is Reva aware that Kenobi doesn’t know Anakin is alive?

It appears she doesn’t know, and this was in the story to end the episode on a sort of dramatic high? It was some great acting.

These stormtroopers are out on duty actively looking for a Jedi. They are sitting alongside and opposite one of the most famous Jedi generals in the Clone Wars. Someone the Empire has been searching for, for 10 years. Yet they don’t seem to have a picture, or description, of the Jedi they are actually looking for?

Why does Vader stand there doing nothing after the Tala shoots and ignites a new fire to somehow stop Vader torturing Kenobi? Then Vader simply waits and watches for the slow moving loader droid to come rescue Kenobi and then slowly carry him off to safety?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53thKFyHFLc

Vader has literally ignited and extinguished a fire just seconds before. He also lifted Kenobi into the air, holding him there, and then also uses the force to pull him through the fire to make him suffer. Why did Vader just stop and stand there after Tala ignited the fire? He doesn’t attempt to walk around the fire, or force pull Kenobi through the fire, or force lift him over the fire to him, or force pull the droid to him.

This inactivity wasn’t also to wait and use Kenobi to trace the Path or Underground after Tala fires upon them and gives away her presence, as we see Vader is pissed and blames Reva for letting Kenobi escape in the next episode. “Kenobi is everything”, and nothing else matters to him, as Vader mentions. Twice. Vader also demonstrates this again in the last episode.

Why is Reva interrogating Leia like she’s a Rebel spy and has a deep knowledge about the Rebellion or Path, when she’s just a 10 year old? Does she seriously expect Leia to have this knowledge? Reva is even the one who arranged Leia’s kidnapping, so she knows Leia hasn’t been with them for very long if at all.

Reva expects to get answers from this? But not from the Rebel pilot she killed for no reason at the end of the tunnel on Mapuzo to capture Leia? Surely keeping him alive too, for his working knowledge would be even more valuable?

A side issue: During the interrogation, how is it that none of the Inquisitors sense that Leia is force sensitive? Isn’t it their job is to track and hunt down force sensitive people? Isn’t Leia now on some Imperial list of people to take a closer look at, or even on an Imperial list of people with force sensitivity?

Reva has placed a tracker in Leia’s Lola droid, during Leia’s interrogation of the captured Leia on the Inquisitor’s fortress. At this time Reva doesn’t know Kenobi is on the base, or that anyone else like Tala is going to come rescue Leia. Yet Reva is also the person who later actively stops Kenobi, Leia and Tala from escaping in the hangar, almost killing them. This was also before the two TR47s fly up the base and into the hangar undetected to rescue them.

So was the tracking thing just a backup plan? It seems nobody else in the Inquisitor base knew about this either.

A side issue: Who turned off the radar at the highly secure Inquisitor fortress so the two TR47s could approach undetected?

Reva waits for Vader to nearly kill her by choking, before muttering she has planted a tracker on Kenobi’s group. Vader, obviously angry and pissed off at the time could have just easily choked her or snapped her neck before she could let him know her “plan”. Vader is well known to be quick and impulsive, so why does Reva wait so long before explaining herself?

“I know we said no communication… but your silence worries me. If he’s found you, if he’s learned of the children… If I don’t hear from you soon, I’ll head to Tatooine. Owen will need help with the boy. I pray you’re safe, Obi-Wan. Both of you."

Bail proceeds to list every detail of their mission, including Owen’s in relation to “the boy.” This message could obviously be catastrophic if it were to end up in the wrong hands, which, of course, it does.

This really is quite poorly written and executed in how the message came about. It also makes Bail look incompetent and an idiot, something of which he is clearly not. Also for Obi-Wan too, as why not delete this potentially damaging message after he has seen it?

The siege of the Rebel base on Jabiim, with some noticeably odd choices by the writers.

While the Rebels are readying themselves to get all the force-sensitives and their families off the planet, Vader orders Reva to lock down the Rebel facility. Reva states that if they seal them in now the Rebels “could hold out for days”, but Vader is just focused on trapping and confronting Kenobi. So, Reva has the compromised Lola droid close and lock the huge overhead docking bay doors of the Rebel’s hidden base, so that the Rebels are now all trapped there, unable to escape on their transport, with the Empire soon to arrive.

The Rebels barricade themselves in, securing the side doors and other entrances. Reva then arrives on the planet with stormtroopers to break into the locked-down base, but rather than have the Lola droid just open the doors back up for them, they set up shop outside with a heavy-gun starting to fire on the side-door. This is first of some strange choices by the writers for this siege.

An hour later the Imperials are still firing on the side-door, and haven’t made much progress at smashing through it all. Reva then has a conversation with Obi-Wan, letting him know her complete backstory and that all this long-term planning is for the chance to kill Vader. Yet she then refuses Kenobi’s offer of help to take Vader down, from the one person who has previously defeated Vader. Her plan of later sneaking up behind Vader and trying to stab him in the back is apparently far better than teaming up with Kenobi to improve their chances of taking him down. The writer’s decision here really doesn’t make much sense.

And then Reva simply opens the side-door herself by putting her lightsaber through the welded door beam, the door opens, and the Empire can now enter the Rebel base.

Why not simply open the door with her lightsaber in the first place? Had Reva forgot about the cutting ability of lightsabers until that point in the story? I suppose this is a question the writers don’t want people to think about too much.

Lightsabers are very good for cutting through things. As seen above they can heat up and burn through metal very quickly too. Reva can count herself lucky when Vader stabbed her with her own lightsaber that he didn’t leave it in her so it didn’t start burning through her. Except Vader did actually do just that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFMglffyPRU

Rokun tells Obi-Wan they can’t take Leia to Alderaan right now because they have to get these force sensitives kids and their families off the Jabiim planet first.

But as we know from later on in the episode there was always a SECOND ship available to them!
 

Obi Wan: “Rokun, that transport, I need to get her [Leia] back to Alderaan.”

Rokun: “Once we get all these people out of here, I’ll do whatever you want. They’ve been waiting for months. We used an old trade route to get them out, but the window is closing. We held it to help you get the kid… we only have a few hours.”

Obi-Wan: “We’ll do whatever we can to help.”
 

So, as there was a second ship (Vader later destroys the decoy ship escaping the docking bay, the same ship used earlier to house the two TR-47s that rescued Obi-Wan, Leia and Tala from the Inquisitor Base, and which flew them back to Jabiim), then why didn’t everyone just leave immediately after arriving back on Jabbim?

Two ships, two routes, both large enough for both parties to go own their own way… Obi-Wan drops Leia off at Alderaan in one ship, while Rokun and the force sensitives move on to their next destination in the other ship; everyone gets to do what they want and move on.

Or, alternatively, why didn’t Obi-Wan and Leia simply depart from Rokun’s large transport ship in the small shuttle that is located in the belly of the Rokun’s ship, earlier and on their way back from the Inquisitor Base? Get to next habitable planet, and then send a holographic message to Bail Organa to come get them?

This was Reva’s long-term plan? That she was actually hunting Vader? To work her way up through the ranks of the Inquisitors to get the chance to kill Vader and avenge her slain youngling friends?

That is a convoluted plan, and one that doesn’t really hold up to much scrutiny. Surely there would have been a number of opportunities to carry this out on Vader over the past 10 years?

For example, when Vader is being considerable tasked by using the Force, so he may not be able to sense an attack coming, or maybe sense able it as quickly?

Instead of simply trying to sneak up to Vader from behind and strike him down, which again, is something she could have done at many previous points over the past 10 years, and would also save herself the trauma of killing other innocents, children, Jedi, force sensitives, all for the Empire’s bidding during that time. As well as trying to hide her plan from everyone that she has been around since she joined the Inquisitors at an early age.

Reva also then refuses the direct offer of help from Obi-Wan Kenobi, the only person who has heavily defeated Vader before, and who is probably the only person who has offered her such help to kill Vader.

I think Reva also used Force Heal +7 and Force Speed +10 to go from being impaled by lightsaber and left to rot on Jabiim, without a transport, to getting to Tatooine and then locating Owen’s farm. All occurring while Vader was still chasing Roken’s transport ship.

Vader is on an Imperial Star Destroyer pursuing Rokun’s crippled transport ship, and Obi-Wan decides he must leave Rokun’s ship to attempt to lure Vader after him, in the hope the others on board can get away.

The problem is the logic of the writing for this situation.

Obi-Wan leaves Rokun’s ship. The Grand Inquisitor is on the Star Destroyer bridge reminding Vader this is the chance to wipe out this network in its entirety. Instead, Vader decides to order the Star Destroyer to ignore Rokun’s crippled ship and follow Kenobi. Yet moments later Vader boards his personal shuttle and goes to face Kenobi alone. So why didn’t Vader get in his personal shuttle moments earlier and pursue Kenobi himself? Leaving the Star Destroyer to continue pursuing and eventually capturing Rokun’s crippled ship?

Or why didn’t Vader at least launch some TIE Fighters or shuttles to engage Rokun’s ship when the Star Destroyer breaks off to follow Kenobi? Or even having TIEs or shuttles simply follow Rokun’s crippled ship in a bid to find Rokun’s destination.

No, Obi-Wan’s plan succeeds because, despite all of the options available to Vader… it just does. As others have said on here, and elsewhere online, this whole scene is just baffling.

The contradictory or inconsistent dialogue within the series itself:

Vader; in episode 3: “I am what you made me”

Vader; in episode 6: “You didn’t fail Anakin. I killed Anakin.”
 

Some have said that Obi-Wan is simply referring to Anakin’s suit in episode 3, the thing that Obi-Wan put him in after defeating him on Mustafar in ROTS, and this is the first time Obi-Wan sees Anakin in the suit. (Except it isn’t: the first time he sees Anakin in the suit is when Anakin is torturing and killing civilians in the street, trying to goad Obi-Wan into action against him).

And in episode 6, Anakin is referring to whole person; his body, personality, spirit and mind.

In episode 3, Obi Wan asks Anakin: “What have you become?”. This is not just the suit, but also asking Anakin to look what he has done to those poor civilians in the street earlier. To look at what he was before as a man, in comparison to what he is now. Obi-Wan was referring to the sheer level or inhumanity displayed by Anakin, and his disgust by it.

So when Vader later tells Obi-Wan in episode 6 “You didn’t fail Anakin. I killed Anakin.”, I find this is contradictory. To me, anyway.

Maybe it was because the two episodes were written by two different people, and it simply got past both of them, and anyone who checks these things before filming? I do not know.

This was a scene many of us have seen repeated before, and it was difficult to not notice the parallels between this mask-cutting conversation and also a very similar imagery in the animated series Star Wars: Rebels, the finale of season 2, in 2016.

Ahsoka (who strongly suspects Vader is Anakin): “My Master could never be as vile as you.”

Vader: “Anakin Skywalker was weak. I destroyed him.”

Ahsoka: “Then I will avenge his death”

Vader: “Revenge is not the Jedi way”

Ahsoka: “I am no Jedi.”

The two then fight with lightsabers, with Ahsoka breaking Vader’s mask and exposing Anakin’s face, in exactly the same Obi-Wan does in this series. Even the same voice modulation usage for switching between Vader’ and Anakin’s voice is repeated, in dialogue below.

Vader: “Ahsoka…”

Ahsoka: “Anakin…? I won’t leave you. Not this time…”

Vader: “Then you will die!”

and the two character continue the lightsaber fight as the scene cuts away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr7ufR7utEo&t=96s

Reva deciding she is going to go kill young Luke.

Reva’s new mission is to kill a young boy because she either wants “justice” or “revenge” on Vader. Yet we are shown the only reason she can’t kill Luke when she has the opportunity, is because she sees herself in that similar position, 10 years ago. And then, at the end, Obi-Wan lets her live and tells her she is free because she didn’t go actually through with it (though she likely would have, if under different circumstances).

Also, why go kill Luke in the first place? Vader doesn’t know who he is, or that he even has a son. What “revenge” or “justice” is that?

Luke sees Reva in the doorway with her lightsaber drawn, just before Beru hits her with a haymaker, who then screams at Luke to “Go!”. Are we to believe a 10 year old Luke forgets what a lightsaber looks like after this traumatic experience being sought after by this person wielding such a unique weapon (who very much doesn’t look like the Tusken Raiders Uncle Owen was talking about moments before), and that Luke also likely heard being wielded around the house fighting Uncle Owen, and also outside the room he is hiding in?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj1kh_1qhCU

Luke is then is chased by Reva, over the sand dunes.

So, when Obi-Wan hands Luke a lightsaber in Star Wars: ANH, Luke should know what it is, at least after activating the blade. “I thought these things only came in red!”, he could have now said.

Or Luke may remember hearing rumours and stories over time from people in town, talking of the time Uncle Owen was threatened by strange Imperials with red lightsabres. One of whom put a lightsaber to Owen’ throat in front of everyone there that day. For a quiet near-deserted planet in the outer rim, away from the control of the Empire, such an event would be memorable to most people in the town who saw this, and would likely be a growing topic of conversation for a long time to come.

Obi-Wan to Reva: “Now you’re free. We both are.”

How? Reva may be free now she has realised the error of her ways, can now choose a different path. She can start afresh, maybe even try to make things right or make amends.

This is despite Reva’s story arc basically consisting of: Wanting revenge for her fellow Jedi younglings being killed. So she became an Inquisitor to hunt and kill Jedi, and other force sensitives, including children… all to gain the trust of Vader so she could get close to him and then kill him. And when she failed, she made her goal the killing another young child. She certainly does have a lot to make up for now she is free.
 

But Obi-Wan being free?: He is still in hiding, still wanted by the Empire. The very tyrannical fascist and oppressive Empire that still run the galaxy. Obi-Wan doesn’t know the Emperor ordered Vader to stop looking for him, so Obi-Wan thinks Vader is still looking for him.

Obi-Wan now also has the weight and conscience of sparing Vader’s life, despite him knowing the death and suffering Vader has already brought to so many, and also the death and suffering Vader will bring to many others in the future. How it that “being free”?

The Inquisitors and the Empire know of the “connection” between between Bail and Kenobi in the archives, and that Kenobi immediately came out of hiding after they had organised the kidnapping of Leia. And yet Obi-Wan turns up in broad daylight on Alderaan to return Leia’s droid, say hello to the Organas, and tell Leia to keep their knowledge of each a secret as it could endanger them both.

It would appear Obi-Wan is doing that there and then.

Surely Obi-Wan must be aware that the Empire would be keeping close tabs on Bail and Leia now, and they are probably under Imperial surveillance. Yet he turns up anyway, in daylight, and in public view of anyone watching. It was a good scene, though.

Poor Qui-Gon. Though Obi-Wan may want to talk with him about the consequences of keeping promises to dying friends.

This topic is more a light-hearted and joke “issue”: People in Star Wars really need to stop just leaving others for dead! 😉

This has become more of a thing in recent times. But still. The Grand Inquisitor, Third Sister, Obi-Wan, Vader in ROTS, Boba Fett, the Emperor, basically everyone who should have died. Probably Mace Windu someday soon too.

Has someone checked on Qui-Gon, as almost everyone else seems to survive being impaled by lightsaber, are we certain he died?
 

Are we now sure that is Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru in Star Wars: ANH, pictured above?

Or…

NeverarGreat said:

And not some dead stormtroopers that they killed and stole their uniforms from, before going on a killing spree of anything and everything Imperial. That sassy Beru didn’t persuade Owen to finally let Luke go off with Obi-Wan on a “damn fool idealistic crusade”, faked their deaths, and then were able to do their own thing: embarking on a full on rampage slaughtering Imperials wherever they found them and inducing fear into the Empire wherever they went, on such a scale it would make even Tarkin blush?

Roaming the galaxy killing Imps with some killer sass put-downs from Owen, and some bare knuckle beatings from Beru. I’d actually watch that as a limited Disney+ series. 😉

Canon-wise it also works too. For anyone asking where the rest of the massive Imperial fleet is after the destruction of the Death Star in Return Of The Jedi. It was decimated not by the Rebels, civilians uprising, or infighting among Imperial warlords vying for power. It was simply this pair.

Regulators Moisture vaporater farmers, mount up!

Emre1601 said: (on June 11, 2022)

I would love to see original script for this by Hossein Amini.

Before Kathleen Kennedy wanted a more “hopeful, uplifting story”:

‘Kennedy discussed original scripts for the series penned by Hossein Amini, and how she ended up replacing the writer with Joby Harold to turn the dark story into something brighter and more hopeful. “We’re looking, ultimately, to make a hopeful, uplifting story. And it’s tricky when you’re starting with a character in the state that Obi-Wan would be in coming off of Revenge Of The Sith. That’s a pretty bleak period of time. You can’t just wave the magic wand with any writer and arrive at a story that necessarily reflects what you want to feel.’ (from Rolling Stone)

 

I still have some reservations about the story clashing and altering what was previously established with the Original Trilogy:-

Obi-Wan & Vader’s Duel In Kenobi Will Change Star Wars Canon In 4 Ways - from Screenrant, if this comes to be true.

“As you know, we would never break canon. So, that’s all I’ll say. … Canon is everything.” - from Vanity Fair

“There’s nothing that I feel like we’ve violated at all. If anything, we’ve informed those scenes so that some of the choices that we’ve taken for granted in the [original trilogy] actually make more sense now.” - from Comicbook

How ‘Obi-Wan Kenobi’ Writer Justified Obi-Wan Not Knowing Anakin Was Alive - ”It all comes down to, is it viable within canon to play that card?“ - from The Wrap

Obi-Wan Kenobi writer says all Star Wars timeline and canon questions will be ‘answered fully’ -“By the time everything has concluded, all things should be in place,” Joby Harold says of potential discrepancies - from Entertainment Weekly
 

How could all timeline and canon questions be “answered fully”? I like and look forward to enjoying new Star Wars releases, but not when new Star Wars rewrites or affects the events of the Original Trilogy.

I can separate the two releases, but should we have to when we are told canon is being respected, but then isn’t (or “if it is viable to do so”?), then we are told to wait until the end of the new series to find out?
 

It can still be a good series, to be enjoyed, and for some fans canon does not matter, or we all see thing just see things differently.

But it does change when the new Kenobi writer Joby Harold, says “canon is everything” and “we would never break canon”, but then doesn’t seem to be so sure himself (“is it viable within canon?”), and later says all canon questions will be “answered fully” at the end.

No. For me, all timeline and canon questions were not “answered fully”. But this is just my view. Maybe others too, maybe not.

As others have stated, there are even more issues in the Kenobi series. Probably with other Star Wars content and also within the series itself. Above are just the scenes or topics I noticed, basically in plain sight, that troubled me upon viewing them.

If anyone knows any more inconsistency issues with the series, please post them below. Or if anyone wants to use any of this for their own post or thread, please do. English is not my first language, which is also why I also use images to help try explain myself more clearly, and some kind people have also helped me with my words. Thanks to Jason for lots of images for this, which was all inspired by his Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies… thread.
 

For me, some of “Obi Wan Kenobi”, episode 6 especially, had some moments more powerful, interesting and effective than many in the Prequels. Yet, like the Prequels, also featured various noticeable and needless issues too, which let the series down overall. But the series can still be enjoyed, and some may not care much or be bothered by such issues.

I do wonder what the original character-driven story by Hossein Amini for the Kenobi series would have been like. And I look forward to seeing what the talented and creative editors, wizards & ideas people on here come up with in the way of fan edits.

Maybe something could even be done about poorly lit shots and use of “shaky cam”, noticeable in action or lightsaber scenes.

A series of videos from the Master Samwise YouTube channel, highlighting some of the direction and story issues in Kenobi:

• Andor vs Obi-Wan Kenobi - A Scene Comparison (Part 1: Action): www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORQW2MThRmY

• Andor vs Obi-Wan Kenobi - A Scene Comparison (Part 2: Writing): www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NJsSa-RPf4

• Action Scene Analysis: Obi-Wan Kenobi (Part 2: Chase Scene): www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-T89I5P-wA

• Action Scene Analysis: Obi-Wan Kenobi (Part 3: Vader vs Obi-Wan First Duel): www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzBdBIr7CtA

• Fortress Inquisitorius in Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Fallen Order (Action Breakdown): www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFEcXJmydhI

• 3rd Sister vs 2nd Sister: Inquisitor Scenes in Kenobi vs Fallen Order: www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmC_4W1GBFo

• Empire vs The Path: Battle Scene Breakdown: www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7x4xKW3skQ

• Obi-Wan vs Darth Vader Final Duel Breakdown (Obi-Wan Kenobi Finale): www.youtube.com/watch?v=lelbmnExNgQ

• Fixing Reva: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLVxebjJCOA (the actress is good; though wasted in this. Racists & sexists can fuck off)

• Fixing The Obi-Wan Kenobi Show’s Random Jedi (Nari): www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XtpZjMA4QE
 

• Why Star Wars is Worth Criticizing (and Analyzing) : www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFl5w5tB6Sg

And a light hearted fun video, from the “How It Should Have Ended” YouTube channel:

‘How Star Wars: Obi-Wan Kenobi Should Have Ended’:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-4MehDB4MM - a 4 minute video

And a light hearted fun video, from the “Pitch Meeting” YouTube channel (thank you to Juno Eclipse for the recommendation):

‘Obi-Wan Kenobi Pitch Meeting’:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WajEW5HPnuw - a 7 minute video

The original soundtrack for Obi Wan Kenobi is now up on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/album/2hDDDUl05cnWTrheIVVCma

by John Williams, Natalie Holt, William Ross. It has 31 tracks and a run time of 1 hour and 22 minutes.

I’m looking forward to seeing this. I hope it is a full in-depth interview with Marcia Lucas and some of the others listed. And that the topics and conversation won’t be too safeguarded, or have to adhere to official Lucasfilm lines.

yotsuya said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Vader, episode 3: « I am what you made me. »

Vader, episode 6: « You didn’t fail Anakin. I killed Anakin. »

This fucking show isn’t even internally consistent. It’s incredible how badly written this shit is…

(Just waiting for basic fans to explain « he meant what he is in a physical state not his psychological state. It fits perfectly. It bridges PT to OT perfectly » 😂)

In episode 3 Vader is referring to his suit. In episode 6 he is referring to his fall. Two totally different topics.

No, not for me. I have to say I didn’t get this was about Vader’s suit from episode 3 at all. Kenobi has also seen him in the suit before when Vader was killing civilians in the street when trying to goad Obi-Wan into action.

Vader appears to him and Obi_wan asks “What have you become?”, but the question doesn’t appear to be about the suit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf911IFKscQ

yotsuya said:

NeverarGreat said:

Omni said:

Guess now we know why Leia’s lightsaber resembles Obi-Wan’s and she named her son Ben 😃

Hey that’s a good connection!

RL, I was reminded of the GOT scene on Tatooine, it felt like I was listening to a Radio Drama because there was literally nothing visible on screen.

Also, another thing that baffled me was why Obi-wan thought his plan to divert Vader’s attention would work, and also why it did.

Like, Obi-wan knew that Vader had a personal shuttle with which to pursue him in alone, and also had the Grand Inquisitor with which to continue pursuit of the refugees. Yet Vader just diverts the entire Star Destroyer to follow Obi-wan and then just leaves it behind and says that he will now follow Obi-wan alone in his ship. Baffling.

Not really baffling. We see Vader do the exact same thing in TESB. He orders his whole fleet to pursue the Falcon into the asteroid field. And at that moment it is faster to have the Star Destroyer go after Kenobi rather than get in a shuttle or Tie fighter. Kenobi knows what motivated Anakin and Vader is even more obsessive. Until corrected by the Emperor.

Kenobi knows what motivated Anakin and Vader, yes. But he didn’t know that Vader wouldn’t just get in his shuttle and chase him, leaving the Imperial Cruiser to continue to follow Rocken’s ship.

spam: https://originaltrilogy.com/user/aleizbaweb/id/71305

spam in signature: https://originaltrilogy.com/user/stevensanders/id/71302
and https://originaltrilogy.com/user/davidklayer/id/71276
and https://originaltrilogy.com/user/forneims1963/id/71328

A few issues that the Kenobi series may have upon the Original Trilogy films, events surrounding them, or other Star Wars releases. Along with some of the in-series issues too. With accompanying images, screenshots, gifs and memes.

Not everyone will agree with some of the topics listed below, or the descriptions of these issues, and that is okay. Everyone’s mileage may vary. For some fans, the topics listed in here may not even be considered issues, inconsistencies or stretches.

Nearly 20 years we thought, nearly two decades, a generation. Now instead only 8-9 years. Not such a long time, now.

It is a good point by Vader. If Kenobi survived 10 years of the purge and Vader looking for him, then Kenobi could have easily survived 8/9 years after the their last encounter, and Vader has also stopped looking for him since their last meeting.

If Vader can stop a ship leaving a port and pull it to the floor in the Kenobi series, then he would also be able to repeat this in later Star Wars releases too? On the Tantive or Falcon, maybe?

Probably the largest problem in the series is the ever increasing bond between Obi-Wan and Leia. As others here have stated (much of this is from adywan, but not his exact words): “the more they progress with this bond between them, the more she comes across as a heartless bitch in Star Wars ANH. Kenobi risked everything for her, and they both developed this close bond. But she doesn’t even react when seeing him again just before he lets himself be struck down by Vader in ANH. Yet Luke, who has known him for 5 minutes, reacts the opposite way? In the scenes on the Falcon after they escape the Death Star too. Wow. This now calls her character into question. It should never have been Leia in this Kenobi story. There is also no peril in the story because we know who must live to appear in later stories.”

In this instance in ROTJ, it also doesn’t make Obi-Wan look good. Given their bond, him knowing exactly who she is, her force sensitivity, and many other skills, attributes and abilities he listed about her that she had inherited from her parents in the last episode of the series, even more so.

Vader saying “You didn’t kill Anakin Skywalker… I did”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAWBeA9LTRE

To me this dialogue renders Obi-Wan in ROTJ telling Luke his “from a certain point of view” story about Vader murdering his father being true as now being quite strange. These words comes from Vader’s own mouth, so it was NOT a deception, or anywhere near a big a stretch as previously, or “from a certain point of view” on Kenobi’s part, in Return Of The Jedi.

Luke: “Why didn’t you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father!”
Obi-Wan: “Your father was seduced by the dark side of the force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man that was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true… from a certain point of view.”

Once again Kenobi was in a situation where he has Vader beaten and at his mercy, he can end the suffering of many others to come… and he just lets him walk away.

Knowing what has occurred in the galaxy since he left Anakin defeated on Mustafar last time, knowing what Vader has done to innocent people in the years since (not just the men, but the women and children too), and something he has seen for himself first hand on Maputo, when Vader killed the civilians in the street to goad Obi-Wan into action. That Vader would go on to murder, destroy, oppress, over and over again, and that no-one else has been, or is likely to, be able to stop him.

This really is a poor decision, and writing, to have Kenobi 10 years on in a situation where he has Vader, a “master of evil”, beaten again, and yet instead simply walks away, for a second time.

Instead, years later in ROTJ, Obi-Wan will instead persuade Luke to go and kill Vader, something he did not do himself on two prior occasions now, at the cost of countless lives. When Luke refuses this in ROTJ and says “I can’t kill my own father”, Obi-Wan responds with “then the Emperor has already won”.
 

On the scene: it was basically a homage, or rip-off, to what had previously been done years ago in the Rebels animated series:-

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Kenobi-Movie-Show-Spoilers/id/56268/page/48#1489887 (or see jedi_bendu’s post below)
 

There are also many “similarities”, homages, “they rhyme”, or rip-offs, with Jedi: Fallen Order video game and episode 4, here:-

https://screenrant.com/obi-wan-kenobi-episode-4-jedi-fallen-order

Vader vs Kenobi duel continued.

There is also an issue of Kenobi’s strength with the Force during the time period of exile on Tatooine, to this era in the series, through to their duel in Star Wars: ANH.

These past 10 years Obi-Wan has cut himself off from the Force and his “force powers” have understandably become weakened. They have somewhat returned to Kenobi during this series, but were not enough to beat Vader. Not enough until he calls on the Force using his will to protect the Skywalker twins (with images of Luke & Leia running through his mind). Kenobi is then able to hand out a comprehensive beat down on Vader.

Yet 8-9 later Vader will taunt Kenobi when they meet again on the Death Star: “Your powers are weak, old man”. This is at the start of the duel and well before Obi-Wan lets Vader strike him down. However, this time around Obi-Wan hasn’t cut himself off from the Force for the past 8-9 years. He has been communing with Qui-Gon and Yoda, continuing the training that Yoda had for him now that he can converse with Qui-Gon again. Probably along with other practicing of Force abilities during this time too. So why are Kenobi’s powers now so weak?

Also, Vader should now be far more wary and mindful during their duel in Star Wars: ANH. Yes, Vader had easily bested Obi-Wan on Jabiim. And Vader had also looked to have easily beaten Obi-Wan when Kenobi’s force powers were weak in their last duel, up to where Vader buries him the under rocks. Yet Obi-Wan then absolutely gave this “master of evil” a comprehensive hands-down beating and could have easily ended Vader there and then. So on the Death Star, surely Vader should be a little concerned this fight is starting to look like a repeat of their previous duel, a duel he lost so badly he was fortunate to escape with his life?

We obviously know this cannot happen, but it is concerning the writers of this Kenobi series seemingly didn’t think this through, or maybe thought it was somehow "viable within canon to play that card?“.

I did originally think Obi-Wan telling young Leia their connection must be kept a secret, to protect both of them from danger, was a good bypass or excuse for the “hologram message issue” from Leia in the Original Trilogy. But on further thought, this doesn’t make sense given the gravity of the situation Leia finds herself in when making and sending the message to Obi-Wan in the OT.

"General Kenobi. Years ago, you served my father in the Clone Wars; now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the Empire. I regret that I am unable to present my father’s request to you in person; but my ship has fallen under attack and I’m afraid my mission to Alderaan has failed. I’ve placed information vital to the survival of the Rebellion into the memory systems of this R2 unit. My father will know how to retrieve it. You must see this droid safely delivered to him on Alderaan. This is our most desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi; you’re my only hope".

All seems lost for Leia in this moment, and given what the hologram message says, continuing to pretend that she has no past affiliation or connection with Kenobi, will certainly not protect her or him in this situation. So creating the hologram message as if she has not met or knows of Kenobi, except through what her father told her, still makes no sense.

The Inquisitors know about this link and surely would have followed it up. At least they or the Empire would have been keeping Bail Organa under close watch, his meetings with others, and also his whereabouts. Maybe even being aware of Bail sneaking off to visit Tatooine in person. The same would also likely apply to Leia, given her being promptly rescued twice by Obi-Wan Kenobi, once from Imperial incarceration and questioning, and also her time spent on the run with other wanted force sensitive fugitives.

Obi-Wan is no longer “living in hiding” when on this mission to rescue Leia, and is inconsistent with Bail’s conversation with Mon Mothma in the Rogue One film:

Mon Mothma: “Despite what the others say, war is inevitable.”

Bail Organa: “Yes, I agree. I must return to Alderaan to inform my people that there will be no peace. We will need every advantage.”

Mon Mothma: “Your friend… the Jedi.”

Bail Organa: “He served me well during the Clone Wars and has lived in hiding since the Emperor’s purge. Yes, I will send for him.”

a 30 second video of the above scene from Rogue One: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqb1oj4sEEM

Some self contained issues in the Obi-Wan Kenobi series:

Why did Obi-Wan even disconnect from the force and bury the lightsabers if he’s supposed to be watching over and protecting Luke? With the aim of training him when the time comes (we even see him ask Uncle Owen about this in episode 1). How did he expect to be able to do that?

At the end of episode 2 Reva reveals to Kenobi that Anakin Skywalker is alive, with some great acting by Ewan in reaction to this. However, how is Reva aware that Kenobi doesn’t know Anakin is alive?

It appears she doesn’t know, and this was in the story to end the episode on a sort of dramatic high? It was some great acting.

These stormtroopers are out on duty actively looking for a Jedi. They are sitting alongside and opposite one of the most famous Jedi generals in the Clone Wars. Someone the Empire has been searching for, for 10 years. Yet they don’t seem to have a picture, or description, of the Jedi they are actually looking for?

Why does Vader stand there doing nothing after the Tala shoots and ignites a new fire to somehow stop Vader torturing Kenobi? Then Vader simply waits and watches for the slow moving loader droid to come rescue Kenobi and then slowly carry him off to safety?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53thKFyHFLc

Vader has literally ignited and extinguished a fire just seconds before. He also lifted Kenobi into the air, holding him there, and then also uses the force to pull him through the fire to make him suffer. Why did Vader just stop and stand there after Tala ignited the fire? He doesn’t attempt to walk around the fire, or force pull Kenobi through the fire, or force lift him over the fire to him, or force pull the droid to him.

This inactivity wasn’t also to wait and use Kenobi to trace the Path or Underground after Tala fires upon them and gives away her presence, as we see Vader is pissed and blames Reva for letting Kenobi escape in the next episode. “Kenobi is everything”, and nothing else matters to him, as Vader mentions. Twice. Vader also demonstrates this again in the last episode.

Why is Reva interrogating Leia like she’s a Rebel spy and has a deep knowledge about the Rebellion or Path, when she’s just a 10 year old? Does she seriously expect Leia to have this knowledge? Reva is even the one who arranged Leia’s kidnapping, so she knows Leia hasn’t been with them for very long if at all.

Reva expects to get answers from this? But not from the Rebel pilot she killed for no reason at the end of the tunnel on Mapuzo to capture Leia? Surely keeping him alive too, for his working knowledge would be even more valuable?

A side issue: During the interrogation, how is it that none of the Inquisitors sense that Leia is force sensitive? Isn’t it their job is to track and hunt down force sensitive people? Isn’t Leia now on some Imperial list of people to take a closer look at, or even on an Imperial list of people with force sensitivity?

Reva has placed a tracker in Leia’s Lola droid - during Leia’s interrogation of the captured Leia on the Inquisitor’s fortress. At this time Reva doesn’t know Kenobi is on the base - or that anyone else like Tala is going to come rescue Leia. Yet Reva is also the person who later actively stops Kenobi, Leia and Tala from escaping in the hangar, almost killing them. This was also before the two TR47s fly up the base and into the hangar undetected to rescue them.

So was the tracking thing just a backup plan? It seems nobody else in the Inquisitor base knew about this either.

A side issue: Who turned off the radar at the highly secure Inquisitor fortress so the two TR47s could approach undetected?

Reva waits for Vader to nearly kill her by choking, before muttering she has planted a tracker on Kenobi’s group. Vader, obviously angry and pissed off at the time could have just easily choked her or snapped her neck before she could let him know her “plan”. Vader is well known to be quick and impulsive, so why does Reva wait so long before explaining herself?

“I know we said no communication… but your silence worries me. If he’s found you, if he’s learned of the children… If I don’t hear from you soon, I’ll head to Tatooine. Owen will need help with the boy. I pray you’re safe, Obi-Wan. Both of you."

Bail proceeds to list every detail of their mission, including Owen’s in relation to “the boy.” This message could obviously be catastrophic if it were to end up in the wrong hands, which, of course, it does.

This really is quite poorly written and executed in how the message came about. It also makes Bail look incompetent and an idiot, something of which he is clearly not. Also for Obi-Wan too, as why not delete this potentially damaging message after he has seen it?

The siege of the Rebel base on Jabiim, with some noticeably odd choices by the writers.

While the Rebels are readying themselves to get all the force-sensitives and their families off the planet, Vader orders Reva to lock down the Rebel facility. Reva states that if they seal them in now the Rebels “could hold out for days”, but Vader is just focused on trapping and confronting Kenobi. So, Reva has the compromised Lola droid close and lock the huge overhead docking bay doors of the Rebel’s hidden base, so that the Rebels are now all trapped there, unable to escape on their transport, with the Empire soon to arrive.

The Rebels barricade themselves in, securing the side doors and other entrances. Reva then arrives on the planet with stormtroopers to break into the locked-down base, but rather than have the Lola droid just open the doors back up for them, they set up shop outside with a heavy-gun starting to fire on the side-door. This is first of some strange choices by the writers for this siege.

An hour later the Imperials are still firing on the side-door, and haven’t made much progress at smashing through it all. Reva then has a conversation with Obi-Wan, letting him know her complete backstory and that all this long-term planning is for the chance to kill Vader. Yet she then refuses Kenobi’s offer of help to take Vader down, from the one person who has previously defeated Vader. Her plan of later sneaking up behind Vader and trying to stab him in the back is apparently far better than teaming up with Kenobi to improve their chances of taking him down. The writer’s decision here really doesn’t make much sense.

And then Reva simply opens the side-door herself by putting her lightsaber through the welded door beam, the door opens, and the Empire can now enter the Rebel base.

Why not simply open the door with her lightsaber in the first place? Had Reva forgot about the cutting ability of lightsabers until that point in the story? I suppose this is a question the writers don’t want people to think about too much.

Lightsabers are very good for cutting through things. As seen above they can heat up and burn through metal very quickly too. Reva can count herself lucky when Vader stabbed her with her own lightsaber that he didn’t leave it in her so it didn’t start burning through her. Except Vader did actually do just that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFMglffyPRU

This was Reva’s long-term plan? That she was actually hunting Vader? To work her way up through the ranks of the Inquisitors to get the chance to kill Vader and avenge her slain youngling friends?

That is a convoluted plan, and one that doesn’t really hold up to much scrutiny. Surely there would have been a number of opportunities to carry this out on Vader over the past 10 years?

For example, when Vader is being considerable tasked by using the Force, so he may not be able to sense an attack coming, or maybe sense able it as quickly?

Instead of simply trying to sneak up to Vader from behind and strike him down, which again, is something she could have done at many previous points over the past 10 years, and would also save herself the trauma of killing other innocents, children, Jedi, force sensitives, all for the Empire’s bidding during that time. As well as trying to hide her plan from everyone that she has been around since she joined the Inquisitors at an early age.

Reva also then refuses the direct offer of help from Obi-Wan Kenobi, the only person who has heavily defeated Vader before, and who is probably the only person who has offered her such help to end Vader.

I think Reva also used Force Heal +7 and Force Speed +10 to go from being impaled by lightsaber and left to rot on Jabiim, without a transport, to getting to Tatooine and then locating Owen’s farm. All occurring while Vader was still chasing Roken’s transport ship.

Vader is on an Imperial Star Destroyer pursuing Rokun’s crippled transport ship, and Obi-Wan decides he must leave Rokun’s ship to attempt to lure Vader after him, in the hope the others on board can get away.

The problem is the logic of the writing for this situation.

Obi-Wan leaves Rokun’s ship. The Grand Inquisitor is on the Star Destroyer bridge reminding Vader this is the chance to wipe out this network in its entirety. Instead, Vader decides to order the Star Destroyer to ignore Rokun’s crippled ship and follow Kenobi. Yet moments later Vader boards his personal shuttle and goes to face Kenobi alone. So why didn’t Vader get in his personal shuttle moments earlier and pursue Kenobi himself? Leaving the Star Destroyer to continue pursuing and eventually capturing Rokun’s crippled ship?

Or why didn’t Vader at least launch some TIE Fighters or shuttles to engage Rokun’s ship when the Star Destroyer breaks off to follow Kenobi? Or even having TIEs or shuttles simply follow Rokun’s crippled ship in a bid to find Rokun’s destination.

No, Obi-Wan’s plan succeeds because, despite all of the options available to Vader… it just does. As others have said on here, and elsewhere online, this whole scene is just baffling.

The contradictory or inconsistent dialogue within the series itself:

Vader; in episode 3: “I am what you made me”

Vader; in episode 6: “You didn’t fail Anakin. I killed Anakin.”
 

Some have said that Obi-Wan is simply referring to Anakin’s suit in episode 3, the thing that Obi-Wan put him in after defeating him on Mustafar in ROTS, and this is the first time Obi-Wan sees Anakin in the suit. (Except it isn’t: the first time he sees Anakin in the suit is when Anakin is killing civilians in the street, trying to goad Obi-Wan into action against him).
And in episode 6, Anakin is referring to whole person; his body, personality, spirit and mind.

In episode 3, Obi Wan asks Anakin: “What have you become?”. This is not just the suit, but also asking Anakin to look what he has done to those poor civilians in the street earlier. To look at what he was before as a man, in comparison to what he is now. Obi-Wan was referring to the sheer level or inhumanity displayed by Anakin, and his disgust by it.

So when Vader later tells Obi-Wan in episode 6 “You didn’t fail Anakin. I killed Anakin.”, I find this is contradictory. To me, anyway.

Maybe it was because the two episodes were written by two different people, and it simply got past both of them, and anyone who checks these things before filming? I do not know.

This was a scene many of us have seen repeated before, and it was difficult to not notice the parallels between this mask-cutting conversation and also a very similar imagery in the animated series Star Wars: Rebels, the finale of season 2, in 2016.

Ahsoka (who strongly suspects Vader is Anakin): “My Master could never be as vile as you.”

Vader: “Anakin Skywalker was weak. I destroyed him.”

Ahsoka: “Then I will avenge his death”

Vader: “Revenge is not the Jedi way”

Ahsoka: “I an no Jedi.”

The two then fight with lightsabers, with Ahsoka breaking Vader’s mask and exposing Anakin’s face, in exactly the same Obi-Wan does in this series. Even the same voice modulation usage for switching between Vader’ and Anakin’s voice is repeated, in dialogue below.

Vader: “Ahsoka…”

Ahsoka: “Anakin? I won’t leave you. Not this time…”

Vader: “Then you will die!”

and the two character continue the lightsaber fight as the scene cuts away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr7ufR7utEo&t=96s

Reva deciding she is going to go kill Luke.

Reva’s new mission is to kill a young boy because she either wants “justice” or “revenge” on Vader. Yet we are shown the only reason she can’t kill Luke is because she sees herself in that similar position, 10 years ago. And then, at the end, Obi-Wan lets her live and tells her she is free because she didn’t go actually through with it (though she likely would have, if under circumstances).

Also, why go kill Luke in the first place? Vader doesn’t know who he is, or that he even has a son. What revenge or justice is that?

Luke sees Reva in the doorway with her lightsaber drawn, just before Beru hits her with a haymaker, who then screams at Luke to “Go!”. Are we to believe a 10 year old Luke forgets what a lightsaber looks like after this traumatic experience being sought after by this person wielding such a unique weapon (and who very much doesn’t look like the Tusken Raiders Uncle Owen was talking about), and that Luke also likely heard being wielded around the house fighting Uncle Owen, and also outside the room he is hiding in?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj1kh_1qhCU

Luke is then is chased by Reva, over the sand dunes.

So, when Obi-Wan hands Luke a lightsaber in Star Wars: ANH, Luke should know what it is, at least after activating the blade. “I thought these things only came in red!”, he should have now said.

Or Luke may remember hearing rumours and stories over time from people in town, talking of the time Uncle Owen was threatened by strange Imperials with red lightsabres. One of whom put a lightsaber to Owen’ throat in front of everyone there that day. For a quiet near-deserted planet in the outer rim, away from the control of the Empire, such an event would be memorable to most in the town who saw it, and would likely be a growing topic of conversation for a long time to come.

Obi-Wan to Reva: “Now you’re free. We both are.”

How? Reva may be free now she has realised the error of her ways, can now choose a different path. She can start afresh, maybe even try to make things right or make amends.

This is despite Reva’s story arc basically consisting of: Wanting revenge for her fellow Jedi younglings being killed. So she became an Inquisitor to hunt and kill Jedi, and other force sensitives, including children… all to gain the trust of Vader so she could get close to him and then kill him. And when she failed, she made her goal the killing another young child. She certainly does have a lot to make up for now she is free.
 

But Obi-Wan being free?: He is still in hiding, still wanted by the Empire. The very tyrannical fascist and oppressive Empire that still run the galaxy. Obi-Wan now also has the weight and conscience of sparing Vader’s life, despite him knowing the death and suffering Vader has already brought to so many, and also the death and suffering Vader will bring to many others in the future. How it that “being free”?

The Inquisitors and the Empire know of the “connection” between between Bail and Kenobi in the archives, and that Kenobi immediately came out of hiding after they had organised the kidnapping of Leia. And yet Obi-Wan turns up in broad daylight on Alderaan to return Leia’s droid, say hello to the Organas, and tell Leia to keep their knowledge of each a secret as it could endanger them both.

It would appear Obi-Wan is doing that there and then.

Surely Obi-Wan must be aware that the Empire would be keeping close tabs on Bail and Leia now, and they are probably under Imperial surveillance. Yet he turns up anyway, in daylight, and in public view of anyone watching. It was a good scene, though.

Poor Qui-Gon. Though Obi-Wan may want to talk with him about the consequences of keeping promises to dying friends.

As others have stated, there are even more issues in the Kenobi series. Probably with other Star Wars content and also within the series itself. Above are just the scenes or topics I noticed, basically in plain sight, that troubled me upon viewing them.

If anyone has any more issues with the series, I would be be happy to add them here so they can all be easily found in one post. Or if anyone wants to use any of this for their own post or thread, please do. English is not my first language, which is also why I also use images to help try explain myself more clearly, and some kind others have also helped me with my words.
 

Some of “Obi Wan Kenobi”, episode 6 especially, had some moments more powerful, interesting and effective than many in the Prequels. Yet, like the Prequels, also featured various noticeable and needless issues too, which let the series down overall.
 

I do wonder what the original character-driven story by Hossein Amini for the Kenobi series would have been like. And I look forward to seeing what the talented and creative editors, wizards & ideas people on here come up with in the way of fan edits.

Maybe something could even be done about the overuse of “shaky cam” in this series, especially in action or lightsaber scenes.

Emre1601 said: (on June 11, 2022)

I would love to see original script for this by Hossein Amini.

Before Kathleen Kennedy wanted a more “hopeful, uplifting story”:

‘Kennedy discussed original scripts for the series penned by Hossein Amini, and how she ended up replacing the writer with Joby Harold to turn the dark story into something brighter and more hopeful. “We’re looking, ultimately, to make a hopeful, uplifting story. And it’s tricky when you’re starting with a character in the state that Obi-Wan would be in coming off of Revenge Of The Sith. That’s a pretty bleak period of time. You can’t just wave the magic wand with any writer and arrive at a story that necessarily reflects what you want to feel.’ (from Rolling Stone)

 

I still have some reservations about the story clashing and altering what was previously established with the Original Trilogy:-

Obi-Wan & Vader’s Duel In Kenobi Will Change Star Wars Canon In 4 Ways - from Screenrant, if this comes to be true.

“As you know, we would never break canon. So, that’s all I’ll say. … Canon is everything.” - from Vanity Fair

“There’s nothing that I feel like we’ve violated at all. If anything, we’ve informed those scenes so that some of the choices that we’ve taken for granted in the [original trilogy] actually make more sense now.” - from Comicbook

How ‘Obi-Wan Kenobi’ Writer Justified Obi-Wan Not Knowing Anakin Was Alive - ”It all comes down to, is it viable within canon to play that card?“ - from The Wrap

Obi-Wan Kenobi writer says all Star Wars timeline and canon questions will be ‘answered fully’ -“By the time everything has concluded, all things should be in place,” Joby Harold says of potential discrepancies - from Entertainment Weekly
 

How could all timeline and canon questions be “answered fully”? I like and look forward to enjoying new Star Wars releases, but not when new Star Wars rewrites or affects the events of the Original Trilogy.

I can separate the two releases, but should we have to when we are told canon is being respected, but then isn’t (or “if it is viable to do so”?), then we are told to wait until the end of the new series to find out?
 

It can still be a good series, to be enjoyed, and for some fans canon does not matter, or we all see thing just see things differently.

But it does change when the new Kenobi writer Joby Harold, says “canon is everything” and “we would never break canon”, but then doesn’t seem to be so sure himself (“is it viable within canon?”), and later says all canon questions will be “answered fully” at the end.

No. For me, all timeline and canon questions were not “answered fully”. But that is just my view.

This image is here just because the post needed some Uncle Owen sass! More awesome Uncle Owen quips can be found here.

People in Star Wars really need to stop just leaving others for dead.

This has become more of a thing in recent times. But still. The Grand Inquisitor, Third Sister, Obi-Wan, Vader in ROTS, Boba Fett, the Emperor, basically everyone who should have died. Probably Mace Windu someday soon too.

Has someone checked on Qui-Gon, as almost everyone else seems to survive being impaled by lightsaber, are we certain he died?

Are we now sure that is Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru in Star Wars: ANH, pictured above?

And not some dead stormtroopers that they killed and stole their uniforms from, before going on a killing spree of anything and everything Imperial. That sassy Beru didn’t persuade Owen to finally let Luke go off with Obi-Wan on a “damn fool idealistic crusade”, faked their deaths, and then were able to do their own thing: embarking on a full on rampage slaughtering Imperials wherever they found them and inducing fear into the Empire wherever they went, on such a scale it would make even Tarkin blush?

Roaming the galaxy killing Imps with some killer sass put-downs from Owen, and some bare knuckle beatings from Beru. I’d actually watch that as a limited Disney+ series.

Canon-wise it also works too. For anyone asking where the rest of the massive Imperial fleet is after the destruction of the Death Star in Return Of The Jedi. It was decimated not by the Rebels, civilians uprising, or infighting among Imperial warlords. It was simply this pair.

Regulators Moisture vaporator farmers, mount up.

I really liked the scene of Kenobi lifting the rocks ready to throw them at Anakin. It reminded me very much of the old fan art image above where Kenobi uses the force to shoot all those guns if he had survived his duel with Vader on the Death Star.

Edit: I’ve now posted this in its own thread so it is easier to find (which was point of making this list of issues in the first place), and will make any updates or additions in the linked thread below, here:

Original Trilogy vs Kenobi: inconsistencies, plot holes and stretches between… plus in-series issues

Vladius said:

Emre1601 said:

adywan said:

They really should have got rid of all the useless fluff from the other episodes and developed this finale more into 2 eps. It felt rushed. Sadly they strengthened the bond between Ben & Leia which makes her reaction to his death in ANH even more cold. But this ep did seem to be a bit of a box ticker, which was a shame.

I did think Obi-Wan telling Leia their connection must be kept a secret, to protect both of them, was a good bypass of the hologram message from Leia in the OT.

It’s not. All the same problems are still there. By the time she’s contacting him, if the message is intercepted then both of their covers are blown anyway, so it doesn’t matter if she uses weird cagey language to suggest they don’t know each other.

This is a good point. I was thinking the end speech between them in the last episode as more of keeping their adventure and knowledge of each a secret to protect both from danger. But as you say, their covers would be blown anyway. And, as Leia says in the hologram message, it is her “most desperate hour”, with a plea directly to Obi-Wan in that he is her “only hope”.
 

Bridger12 said:

I think it’s weird how people bring up that Leia should have reacted harder to Obi-Wan’s sacrifice, just because we now know they share a history together. It’s because we all know that she had just watched her planet (and family) get destroyed, and she’s still leading the charge to escape the Death Star. She knows how to keep her emotions in check when it’s called for. Much more so than Luke can.

Why weird? This is just me asking a rhetorical question, thinking aloud.

Leia reacted with high emotion and excitement when Luke mentioned he was with Obi-Wan (Ben) Kenobi when he broke her out of the detention cell and told he was there to rescue her: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aJJuNB58eA

That happened after seeing her home planet of Alderaan destroyed.

Watch this video from 1 minute and 40 seconds onwards: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kpHK4YIwY4 Leia doesn’t even acknowledge Obi-Wan, it is like him being there doesn’t even register with her. And seeing Leia doesn’t register with Obi-Wan either. Considering they were on a highly dangerous adventure together in which Obi-Wan saved her life on multiple occasions, her first off-world experience, and a big and memorable experience for her, surely it would be weird if it didn’t.

On the Falcon, when Luke is down about Obi-Wan being “struck down” by Vader, Leia tries to console him, yet doesn’t share her memories of Obi-Wan to cheer Luke up. Or displays emotion herself for Obi-Wan. That is indeed weird, given what we know now. How could it not be.

adywan said:

They really should have got rid of all the useless fluff from the other episodes and developed this finale more into 2 eps. It felt rushed. Sadly they strengthened the bond between Ben & Leia which makes her reaction to his death in ANH even more cold. But this ep did seem to be a bit of a box ticker, which was a shame.

I agree, 100% with the Ben & Leia story.

I also can’t help wonder how much the series we be improved by Stanton writing all of it - not just the last two episodes, which were an uplift on the previous chapters.

It did show the flaws in the ability of those in charge to plot out chance sequences though. the Stardestroyer chase was flat. compare this sequence to those in the OT, especially ESB with the stardestroyer chasing the falcon, and you will see what i mean. The stardestoyer itself looked more 90’s CG than the quality we have come to expect from ILM today. The movement of the ships in some shots just looked unreal/ unnatural.

The big problem was that, what should have been tense moments, just couldn’t be because we know they survive. There was no peril, even though it was written to portray just that. We know vader survives, we know ben survives, we know Leia survives, we know owen and beru survive. yet they were the ones that were supposed to be in danger. The only one we didn’t know their fate was Reva, but she was just a throw away character in the end.

Yes. Yet again, Kenobi was in a situation where he had Vader at his mercy, and just… lets him walk away. Knowing what already happened, knowing what Vader has done to innocent people (not just the men, but the women and children too)… that Vader would go on to murder, destroy, oppress, over and over again, and that no-one else would be able to stop him. And years later, in ROTJ, he will instead ask Luke to go and kill Vader, something he did not do himself on two prior occasions now.

I’m not sure having the fight end like that in this series was a good idea, other than maybe not to damage the “When I left you I was but the learner” line from the OT, after Vader’s previous toying with Obi-Wan in this series.

Vader saying it was he himself who “killed” Anakin: to me it renders Kenobi in ROTJ telling Luke his “from a certain point of view” story of Vader murdering his father was true… as meaningless, this now comes from Vader’s own mouth, so was NOT a deception, or stretch, on Kenobi’s part.

Also the dialogue in Empire: Obi-Wan “That boy is our last hope”. Yoda: “No, there is another” does seem different now, now that Obi-Wan previously knows of Luke’s strong willed and force-sensitive sister, but the idea of this doesn’t occur to him.

Kenobi also seemed sympathetic to Vader at the end of the fight. But some 8-9 years later, he will refer to him as a “master of evil”. it is most odd that he didn’t end this master of evil when he had a second chance, after 10 years of Imperial oppression, the purges, and killing of innocents that Vader was involved in, and also strengthening the Empire’s grip on the galaxy.

“Obi-Wan once thought as you do”; we didn’t a scene with Kenobi trying to save Anakin in this, or bring him back to the lights, which I thought was a missed opportunity.

The " Vader half damaged mask revealing Anakins face" has already been done, but the original had more of an impact.

Rebels really nailed that aspect of it, with this feeling more like a bad homage or rip off of it.

There will be things in this that some fans will be cheering over, but they felt more shoehorned in.

It did appear like some box ticking was happening towards the end. The scene with the Emperor telling Vader to forget about Kenobi felt like that. Despite the revelation that Bail has known where Kenobi, one of the most wanted men in the galaxy, was all this time and there is a mystery link there with Leia. Or that the Inquisitors don’t follow up on this established link. Or the Empire keep Bail under very close observation, like him going to Tatooine in person for example.

I did think Obi-Wan telling Leia their connection must be kept a secret, to protect both of them, was a good bypass of the hologram message from Leia in the OT. But as you said above, it just makes makes her reaction to his death in SW even more cold, and also just before that with them not acknowledging each other as Luke, Leia, Han and Chewy made it to the Falcon.

Qui-Gon didn’t land for me, just that few seconds? That was it? It was a bit meh. A lazy decision to have that occur in the end scenes to me. I was hoping if we did see that we’d have something more memorable or with more weight.

Strangely, I did still enjoy the episode, and series, overall.
 

As others have said in here, it will be cool to see what some of the talented fan editors on here come up with. Especially in a film format.
 

“The rematch of the century”, this was not. For a show with a big tv budget, “event tv”, anticipation of the story by the fans for many years, the actors featured, this series overall was a bit of a letdown. Some great moments, but not enough of them. Some plot issues and clashing with the OT, and plot stretches within the series, but I expected those. But also some surprisingly underwhelming moments from a technical POV, I wasn’t expecting that from a series of this stature and importance to the Star Wars universe.

5/10 for the series.

With big credit to the little Leia actress. And Moses Ingram who did well when she was finally given something to work with in the last two episodes, as contrived and messy as Reva’s whole story in this was. Legitimate criticism is fine, and we know she is a quality actor from her other work, but fuck those racists who sent her all that vile idiotic hate.

CarboniteSolo said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Vladius said:

They should just stop making Star Wars stuff, there’s enough already

Or they could come up with new ideas.

Even Disney new ideas are now being recycled like crazy (Baby Yoda / Lil Leia / Omega, or Rey the scavanger / Ben the hobo butcher, Reva / Finn even share lots of similar ideas). They even have already did TWICE the Imperial redhead guy switching side… (never trust gingers, remember Cartman warned us about them 😄).

Maybe they could just do less but better, quality vs quantity. But when I read some comments here, I have the feeling casual fans just want to be plugged to neverending Star Wars feed with a mind elastic enough to accept basically anything (it still is incredibly laughable to consider the number of comments defending a rematch set between Mustafar and the Death Star events as “adding more depth and layers”… well, we’ve seen the quality of those layers, right…).

They are bringing us new movies with new characters never before seen in Patty Jenkins movie Rogue Squadron in 2024 and Taika Waititi’s Star Wars film in 2023.

It’ll be here soon, patience.

I agree, and with the patience part. The Acolyte and Visions covers new ground, new characters, and new stories also. Maybe Skeleton Crew as well. Feige’s film is meant to be separate to what has come before too.

Taika Waititi Will Expand ‘Star Wars’ Away from Preexisting Characters, Forget Prequel Origin Stories at Indiewire
 

“Look, I think for the ‘Star Wars’ universe to expand, it has to expand,” Waititi told Total Film about his yet-to-be-titled movie. “I don’t think that I’m any use in the ‘Star Wars’ universe making a film where everyone’s like, ‘Oh great, well that’s the blueprints to the Millennium Falcon, ah that’s Chewbacca’s grandmother.'”

Waititi, who was tapped for a “Star Wars” installment with a December 2025 release date, added, “That all stands alone, that’s great, though I would like to take something new and create some new characters and just expand the world, otherwise it feels like it’s a very small story.”
 

New characters, new locations, not treading over previous ground again, and looking to expand the world of Star Wars? 100% yes please!

jedi_bendu said:

Easily the best episode imo. Biggest complaints are still how it looks, special effects are really letting this show down, but there was a lot to love. Great twist with Reva, some real stakes and tension, and flashbacks that served the story in a very character-specific way. Loved seeing Hayden back as Anakin too.

It feels like this series could have done even more with the potential it had, but I’m happy with what they did with this episode. With only one episode left, I think I can say that this is at least a good show.

This is more or less my take on Episode 5 too.

I do find it weird that more and more people are living through being impaled by lightsabers. “Revenge does wonders for the will to live” we are told. Unfortunate for everyone else previously impaled by lightsaber who did not have that will to live!

canofhumdingers said:

In about two more days my home theater will be completed and I’ll be watching Star Wars on an 11 foot wide CinemaScope screen. It’s been a project two years in the making and a lifetime in dreaming. I’m quite floored to be so close!

That looks amazing! The whole thing.

Which Star Wars are you going to watch first, and also which version? Enjoy!

Spoilers for Kenobi:

 

Ultimately, it is Beru with the most savage sass:

act on instinct said:

Funny how some fans continue to hang their hopes on a Star Wars savior, before release it was Deborah Chow, now Andrew Stanton in the final hour is going to save it. I do think he’s a good writer and writers are more of what’s needed for the franchise, but at the same time…fool me once.

I hope Stanton is able to pull this off.

I would love to see original script for this by Hossein Amini.

Before Kathleen Kennedy wanted a more “hopeful, uplifting story”:

‘Kennedy discussed original scripts for the series penned by Hossein Amini, and how she ended up replacing the writer with Joby Harold to turn the dark story into something brighter and more hopeful. “We’re looking, ultimately, to make a hopeful, uplifting story. And it’s tricky when you’re starting with a character in the state that Obi-Wan would be in coming off of Revenge Of The Sith. That’s a pretty bleak period of time. You can’t just wave the magic wand with any writer and arrive at a story that necessarily reflects what you want to feel.’ (from Rolling Stone)

I still have some reservations about the story clashing and altering what was previously established with the Original Trilogy:-

Obi-Wan & Vader’s Duel In Kenobi Will Change Star Wars Canon In 4 Ways - from Screenrant, if this comes to be true.

“As you know, we would never break canon. So, that’s all I’ll say. … Canon is everything.” - from Vanity Fair

“There’s nothing that I feel like we’ve violated at all. If anything, we’ve informed those scenes so that some of the choices that we’ve taken for granted in the [original trilogy] actually make more sense now.” - from Comicbook

How ‘Obi-Wan Kenobi’ Writer Justified Obi-Wan Not Knowing Anakin Was Alive - ”It all comes down to, is it viable within canon to play that card?“ - from The Wrap

Obi-Wan Kenobi writer says all Star Wars timeline and canon questions will be ‘answered fully’ -“By the time everything has concluded, all things should be in place,” Joby Harold says of potential discrepancies - from Entertainment Weekly
 

How could all timeline and canon questions be “answered fully”? I like and look forward to enjoying new Star Wars releases, but not when new Star Wars rewrites or affects the events of the Original Trilogy.

I can separate the two releases, but should we have to when we are told canon is being respected, but then isn’t (or “if it is viable to do so”?), then we are told to wait until the end of the new series to find out?

That seems a “bluffers way” of getting to keep you watching the show! I have a feeling the writers will have their excuses ready, and “interpretations” or “from a certain point of view” excuses lined up for fans issues with the inconsistencies and breaks with canon. I hope I am proved wrong, very wrong, and they will be “answered fully”.
 

It can still be a good series, to be enjoyed, and for some fans canon does not matter, or we all see thing just see things differently.

But it does change when the new Kenobi writer Joby Harold, says “canon is everything” and “we would never break canon”, but then doesn’t seem to be so sure himself (“is it viable within canon?”), and later says all canon questions will be “answered fully” at the end.

I enjoy Visions, and am looking forward to more in season 2.

As others on here have said, it is something that really should have been done years ago too, simple non-canon stories told very well and in different animated styles.

Edit: Oh no, I forgot this thread was about movies, and not Star Wars releases in general. Erm, then I enjoy the short mini-movies of Visions! lol!

Star Wars: Colin Trevorrow Reacts to Fan Reception of Scrapped Duel of the Fates Script at Comicbook.com
 

“Honestly, if any director tells you that they don’t care what the audience thinks, or even people who watch movies and write about them for a living, then I’m not sure if they’re being fully honest with themselves,” Trevorrow told The Hollywood Reporter. “I do make these movies for audiences, but I also make them for people who think about film all the time and watch movies the way that I do. So yeah, absolutely. Any time you do something that’s received well, it’s going to encourage you and hopefully assure you that not only was there a reason why you started doing this in the first place, but your imposter syndrome is only partially real and you’re not a complete fraud. (Laughs.) And I think we all have those moments.”
and

“It was complicated. But, honestly, I mean, since we’re talking now in 2022, I can say honestly I’m very grateful to [Lucasfilm president] Kathy [Kennedy] for recognizing that she and I were never going to make a movie that we were both proud of together,” Trevorrow said. “And she’s been doing this for so long and she cares about me and I care about her and her family. And [producer] Frank [Marshall] and I are partners still. I’m a part of this group of incredible filmmakers, so it was a complicated moment, but now, having been able to do this and really feeling like this is what … I’m glad I did this. I’m deeply, deeply satisfied for having done this. I appreciate that she had the wisdom to see something that, honestly, I’m not sure I could’ve seen because I was so dialed in to the story I wanted to tell.”
 

Respect to the Colin Trevorrow for saying that “It was complicated. But, honestly, I mean, since we’re talking now in 2022, I can say honestly I’m very grateful to [Lucasfilm president] Kathy [Kennedy] for recognizing that she and I were never going to make a movie that we were both proud of together”.

It is disconcerting the amount of times there have been massive changes to Star Wars content over the past 7-8 years being planned or delivered by writer or director: Rogue One, Solo, TROS, Kenobi, Rangers Of The New Republic, the GOT guys canceled project, and Rogue Squadron being pushed back, are just the releases I can think of right now.

Though maybe this also happens in most other big franchises, like Trek, Aliens, Terminator, or MCU and so on?

Boba Fett Actor Temuera Morrison Wants to Bring the Star Wars Bounty Hunter Back to his Old, ‘Badass Ways’ at IGN.
 

“We’ve got to bring him back somewhere. We’ve got to see the old Boba Fett," Morrison said. “We reintroduced him. We found out some stuff. But I think it’s time to get him back to his badass ways. No two ways around that. So, I think we sort of have that scope to go back there, but that’s out of my control. I’ll just see what happens.”
 

I’d be happy to see that old Boba Fett again. But surely the time for that was the first season of this show, and them show him mellowing or reaiising the ‘there is a better way’ for him and his bounty hunter kin as the series progressed each season?

RogueLeader said:

Yeah, the actual dialogue isn’t necessarily bad (though it definitely could’ve been trimmed here and there), it is mostly the actors performances or blocking, things under the director’s control, that makes the entire production feel a little more amateur.

And you’re right about the Mandalorian. I went back and watched a clip from Season 2 and immediately noticed how the blocking looked so much more artistic/professional in comparison to what we’ve generally seen in Kenobi. Hell, I think the best example is comparing the Mandalorian episode we got in the Book of Boba Fett to the rest of the show. It felt like that one episode had the same budget as the entire season of BOBF. But again, I don’t know if it is just because Favreau/Howard/Filoni and their crew have a better understanding of the Volume than the other creatives have. Might be worth going back and watching Chow’s Mando episodes to compare it with Kenobi. I recall her episodes being really solid, which is just leading me to believe they are just being forced to work with less money.

This is pretty much how I feel. I am enjoying the series, but there are some standout issues too preventing me from enjoying it more. I do hope we may see improvements on this as the series progresses. In the third episode, up to Vader and Kenobi at the Quarry, I thought it was pretty solid, probably the best one so far. But then it petered out and the previous issues in some of the scenes in the previous two episodes appeared again.

This appeared in my news feed earlier from Deadline:

‘Icons Unearthed: Star Wars’: Nacelle & Vice TV’s Series Debuts With First-Ever On Camera Interview With Marcia Lucas
 

'In Icons Unearthed: Star Wars Marcia Lucas, Oscar-winning film editor and ex-wife of George Lucas, sits down for her first-ever on-camera interview and provides unique insight into the rise of LucasFilm — including her 14-year marriage to and eventual divorce from George Lucas — the editing of the original Star Wars trilogy, the origin of the idea that Darth Vader would be Luke’s father and if there were really originally plans for nine movies.

Icons Unearthed: Star Wars also includes exclusive interviews with Anthony Daniels, Billy Dee Williams, Paul Hirsch, Phil Tippett, Rick Baker, Ken Ralston, John Dykstra, Howard Kazanjian, Julian Glover, Ian McDiarmid, Gus Lopez, Tom Spina and many more. Icons Unearthed: Star Wars is narrated by Michael Pennington, who portrayed Moff Tiaan Jerjerrod in Return of the Jedi.

The series will world premiere with the first Star Wars installment on July 12, 2022 at 10 p.m. ET on Vice TV.’
 

It is always interesting to hear Marcia Lucas speak as she did for the 40th anniversary interview in this thread, and at the Galactic Innovations event in 2019: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOxfmq0nCEs

Edit: Sorry. I didn’t know digitalfreaknyc had already created a thread for this documentary series:-

Icons Unearthed - new 6 part documentary on the OT (VICE)

spam: https://originaltrilogy.com/user/Michaelplaph/id/70916

more spam: https://originaltrilogy.com/user/JaxWatson/id/70800

ai spambot reposting older threads on here: https://originaltrilogy.com/user/vigreen/id/69776

screams in the void said:

Yeah , I was disappointed to hear this is focusing on prequel area characters too . Although , Dave Filoni is helming the show and he played a large part in bringing a lot of EU characters and concepts back into "canon " . He has also been known to play his cards close to the vest and not revealing things to the public and sometimes his own crew .

I would love to see a series on EU characters too, or a series on any era, rather than just the Prequels. That just seems so limiting.

GrimOnTheDarkside said:

Emre1601 said:

Some more contradictions and a bit more hypocrisy from George: Lucas is on record as suggesting doing the New Jedi Order books as the Sequels. Years later he then backtracked and claimed that was not the way he would have done it, despite it being his own actual suggestion (it also a project he worked on and contributed to). And then, rather hypocritically, years later Lucas actually used some of those early NJO ideas for his own Sequel Trilogy film treatments:

oojason said:

Don’t forget the version of the Sequels… that were novels (back in 1999):-
 

In 1999, an interview with George Lucas in Wired magazine, titled ‘Grand Illusion’… just a few months before the ‘Vector Prime’ book (from the ‘New Jedi Order’ series of novels) - began being heavily promoted (with tv advert and poster campaigns), a series of novels which Lucas himself was involved in and contributed to…

^ Grand Illusion - the full article at Wired.

 

A little more background info can be found here:-

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi
 

 

and the Total Film interview with George below from 2008:

GrimOnTheDarkside said:

“And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn’t at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn’t come back to life, the Emperor doesn’t get cloned and Luke doesn’t get married.”

~ George Lucas, Total Film Magazine Interview, 2008

^ https://ibb.co/x5q1RrQ

 

When George later changed his mind and decided to try his hand on the Sequels film, his own treatments were based some of early New Jedi Order novel ideas discussed in the article below, notably the conception of the NJO and aspects of other familiar EU stories. George himself had also contributed to the NJO books, having a number of meetings with the authors, instigating changes to the plot and characters, giving feedback, and making suggestions:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi

The text in the above article is a ‘spoiler’. To see the text appear, double-click on the space where the text should be, to see it. Or click here for a screenshot of the article: https://i.imgur.com/6n1rNdM.png

 
 

In Summary…

 
In 1999:

Interviewer: “What about the reports that Episodes 7, 8, and 9 - which exist in novel form - will never reach the screen?”

George Lucas: “The sequels were never really going to get made anyway, unlike 1, 2, and 3, where the stories have existed for 20 years. The idea of 7, 8, and 9 actually came from people asking me about sequels, and I said, “I don’t know. Maybe someday.” Then when the licensing people came and asked, “Can we do novels?” I said do sequels, because I’ll probably never do sequels.”

George also contributed to the New Jedi Order books, having a number of meetings with the authors, instigating changes to the plot and characters, giving feedback, and making a number of other suggestions implemented by the NJO writers.
 

In 2008:

George Lucas: “And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn’t at all what I would have done it”.
 

Around 2011-12:

When George later changes his mind and decides to now try his hand at the Sequel Trilogy, his own later treatments are based some on those same novel ideas, notably the conception of the New Jedi Order, and also some other aspects of familiar EU stories.

As I’m one of the people being quoted here, I’d add more to this. Firstly, The Expanded Universe was never a part of the Official Star Wars canon in the first place. Disney didn’t 'decanonize a thing. George Lucas always maintained they were seperate universes, and that only his direct works made up the official Star Wars canon. There are no contradictions with regard to Lucas.

NJO was not his idea, and his involvemenet in it was extremely limited, not creative, and only as a favor to Lucy Wilson, whom he had a long and close relationship with prior to her moving over the Lucas Licensing.

Creators of the New Jedi Order also speak about this.

There are hundreds of quotes and interviews, some on TV that show that Lucas’s involvement in the EU was extremely limited and ceased almost entirely when he began the Prequels, that he didn’t consider the EU canon or a part of his Canonical Star Wars universe. Quotes below -

and

There are 100’s more quotes like this. There was some confusion due to contradicting quotes earlier on, but they were addressed in spades. Lucas personally set the Official Star Wars canon to the 6 films and The Clone Wars series. That’s it.

We don’t have to like that, but, we don’t get to change it.

These quotes are just to try and answer to some of the confusion. - People can like whatever they want, they can head-canon whatever they want. No one is wrong for liking or disliking anything. Those are subjective view points. These quotes only speak to the official nature of things as Lucas decreed.

I won’t be checking back. Use the quotes however you like, and discuss them amongst yourselves if you wish.

I personally only care about what Lucas decreed. That’s my view point. I enjoyed alot of the material from the EU, even knowing it wasn’t actually canonical and I still play the games [Been playing SWTOR for the last 8 years].

All I’d add is that from everything that I have read, and like I said, there are 100’s more quotes like this, Lucas was consistent as hell. - I personally see the EU the same way I see Disney, Not in keeping with Lucas’s vision and not canon as far as the Maker himself is concerned, but, as to the creative worth of those things, that’s up to each individual to decide for themselves and is totally subjective. I would never gainsay anyone’s right to like or dislike anything. Even those people who think Disney’s garbage is good. =p

May the Force be with you.

What a post!

Is it the same lengthy content as you posted on the previous page of this thread?

But I was not talking about canon or Disney. I also did not say the NJO was George’s idea.
 

I was simply highlighting that George actually suggested in 1999 doing Sequels as novels because he would never do Sequels as films.

Then nearly a decade later George stated novels isn’t the way he would have it - despite him actually suggesting it.

Then four years later using some of those same NJO Sequel novel ideas for his own later Sequel film treatments.

That was all.
 

As for your claim “Lucas was consistent as hell” - the above evidence highlights George Lucas is not consistent at all. As does the OP and theme of this thread.

(Unless you are talking about the EU/canon? I do not know enough to comment on that, but that was not what I posted about.)
 

Although this link, with quotes and citations, does highlight George Lucas’ significant input and involvement for the NJO:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi

MTFBWY too.