EddieDean

Thanks for the feedback samo21.

I think it’s right to call them neutral Republic worlds - they are part of the (wider) Republic, since they have seats on the Republic senate. They’re just not joining the war that the rest of the Republic systems are. Kind of like how Switzerland is a member of a number of European bodies but not the EU or European Council, and has declared itself neutral in a couple of wars. I guess they’re less federated than some other systems, enough that they aren’t mandated to declare war when the rest of the Republic does.

I agree that I should capitalise Council of Neutral Systems though.

I’ll take a look at that ‘what’s in the box’ twice too.

On the music, I’ve fallen in love with Clones (Sad), so I really don’t want to change that. Part of the original reasoning for changing the original music is because I did want something more somber and ominous rather than bombastic and exciting, to remind viewers that this story is a tragedy, that it has this inevitable sad ending, that it’s not an adventure story, that war comes at a high cost. Rest assured that I’ve listened through a LOT of Samuel Kim to get to that point, though.

Meantime, I’ve been tweaking the couple of other issues brought up recently.

I’ve fixed the elevator scene, so now we jump to hyperspace, enter the elevator, get a shot of hyperspace, then exit the elevator. The cut as they leave the elevator is still a little sharp, but that’s all I have to work with.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Onz06QMKo719d4dN7syDfKs-Fj7uevgZ/view?usp=sharing

I’ve also removed the scene which is entirely Satine and Obi-Wan bickering about how she saved him, since she doesn’t save him in my cut. Now, we jump straight to them back at the capital ready to leave for Coruscant, which deserved a wipe. And because I added a wipe there, I took the wipe off the following scene, where they jump to hyperspace.

This works a bit better I think, since now the last scene before they leave for Coruscant is Viszla saying “we’ll get her soon”, and it opens on Tal Merrick etc getting ready to get onto the ship. So it ties the two plots together a bit more tightly.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V3tm-cysT20uR0BtqQ1jZbQPPKE785kD/view?usp=sharing

Just thinking of making a minor change to the opening text. Since I’m going to re-extend the opening to show the arrival at Mandalore, is it worth replacing “MANDALORE, the now-peaceful planet of the formerly warlike Mandalorians” with “MANDALORE, the ravaged planet of the formerly warlike Mandalorians”? ‘formerly warlike’ carries the concept of ‘peaceful’ well enough, but ‘ravaged’ goes some way to explaining why they live in a weird dome in the middle of a desert (and that’s canon anyway, plus they reference it in this episode).

Artan42 said:

EddieDean said:

Why does Obi go to visit the mines?

I’m sure the episode explains this- he’s suspicious that they may be active and Death Watch, and goes to check them out.

Why does the the mines level of operation indicate Death Watch activity?

They’re clearly being used to produce new Mandalorian armour- the same armour that the commando who attacked the Republic cruiser was wearing. He trusts that Satine would be telling him if the peaceful Mandalorians were producing their own armour again.

It’s that last bit though, that they’re now being used as factories that I don’t recall being highlighted in the episode. It’s an effective shot when he sees that they are producing the armour, but his argument for leaving Satine in the first place was to see if the mines were active or not. There’s nothing previously to suggest that the Concordians mining is suspicious activity. Mines aren’t foundries or factories (at least not automatically) so it’s a leap to go from ‘there’s mines on this planet’ to 'I bet they’re making supercommando armour there).

As I write this I know exactly what would have cleared it up… The word ‘Beskar’. Beskar mines would indicate armour production. It’s a shame the word is never mentioned in TCW.

I’ll look at episode 1 this evening.

Oh man, that’s a lovely idea. And even the theoretical first time viewer would recognise that a significant word had been said, even if they didn’t know what it meant.

I’ll add that to the “watch out for this” list. I’m sure Obi-Wan says some combination of “best”/“scar” or “be”/“sc”/“are”/“our”.

I’d still argue that jetpacks and Mando helmets are a sign that someone’s involved in re-arming Mandalorians who isn’t a part of the now-peaceful government. But this would definitely help get it over the line.

PMs sent.

McFibb said:

EddieDean said:

Knight of Kalee, just spotted your edit.

I agree on tightening up the text shadow a little.

I’m going to struggle with the outro credits in this and every episode, since it always builds up then drops into the bombast of the original.

Unless @McFibb has an idea to draw out the opening of the music track I’m using any further? More of a build then drop into the operatic singing? It’d need to be about 20/30 sec before the current start, with the peak just before where the start is.

But even then, it’s not something I’d be able to use in every episode, I don’t think.

Yup — that’s what I meant by helping out. Love the music too, but happy to take a swing at getting the timing/tone right for the entirety of the outro. Can you clarify a bit more about what you’re looking for?

I’ll try:

So we’re talking about extending the start of ‘The Clones Theme Order 66 Sad Version’.

Currently, it begins with a little hum, then some choral singing, then the brass comes in.

Compare that to existing episodes (like my S01E02), where the final dialogue to close out the episode normally plays over some music which builds slowly for about 30 seconds, giving the sense it’s wrapping up the story, then drops into the BA-BAHHH of the Clone Wars logo / closing credits.

As it stands now, because I’m cutting the BA-BAHHH, we end up with a track slowly building, but then fading out so that I can drop into the choral music of ‘Clones Sad’.

I feel like the best way to achieve the same effect with this track would be to allow the brass drop to replace the original credits’ BA-BAHHH, in which case the choral part becomes our build up.

I’ve quickly mocked this up (VERY ROUGH, excuse quality) to give you an idea of what I’m thinking makes sense.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JwpM7ATxqbDAlMh_6ggOWkFntD0Y_3SE/view?usp=sharing

The top yellow track in this video is the episode’s video, the bottom yellow track is the music channel, and the bottom blue track is the voice/sfx.

You can see that, to replace the existing track entirely, I’ve had to pull the beginning of Clones Sad back 30 seconds into the episode proper.

I’ve extended the choir to do this, which I think is neat, but it’s probably way too dominant. I don’t know if you could achieve something more subtle. Or something which achieves the same emotional effect, but with different sounds - but which still launches nicely into the brass drop. And I’d prefer not to lose the choir altogether since I think it’s a nice part of the anticipation.

There’s also a risk that other episodes start their build as early as maybe 40 seconds in, in which case I’d need maybe 40 seconds of neutral/choral build before we get to the brass drop.

sade1212 said:

EddieDean said:

Knight of Kalee, just spotted your edit.

Close enough 😉

Well, you got it from context, so… 😉

Knight of Kalee, just spotted your edit.

I agree on tightening up the text shadow a little.

I’m going to struggle with the outro credits in this and every episode, since it always builds up then drops into the bombast of the original.

Unless @McFibb has an idea to draw out the opening of the music track I’m using any further? More of a build then drop into the operatic singing? It’d need to be about 20/30 sec before the current start, with the peak just before where the start is.

But even then, it’s not something I’d be able to use in every episode, I don’t think.

Yeah, but for example, these two episodes only have three pieces of art between them. And they’re not that good. Perhaps when I get into the later seasons when the art gets absolutely gorgeous (they start doing ‘lighting references’ at some point, which always look good) I’ll linger on them more. But I think when they aren’t that lovely, it’s best to show them more as an interesting behind the scenes than as a specific element of beauty.

And your help’s always welcome… Though I don’t think even John Williams could give us a more perfect outro piece. I just love Order 66 (Sad Version).

Wexter said:

Oh and one more thing. I love how the Christopsis episode ends on Obi-Wan saying “I best be on my way” as he leaves for his ship. It flows right into the intro of the Mandalore episode. If there is a way to further strengthen this connection, perhaps by adding in a line of dialogue, that would be amazing.

Oooh, that is a nice idea. I’d love to do that. I’d need to cobble together dialogue, which requires a full run through of the show, so it’s not going to happen in my first runthrough. But I’ve got a list here of “elements to look out for”, so I’ll see if I can find Yoda talking about Mandalore or something. It also works with the implication that the “emergency” that Ahsoka tries to call Obi-Wan and Anakin back to the core for is something relating to the Mandalorian attack on the Republic cruiser.

Cheers Wexter. I’ll produce a more polished cut of Christophsis, then let people decide. I’m happy to drop Bail, or Ventress, if they don’t really work. I’m more inclined to keep Ventress though, as Ahsoka fights her solo in our episode three, and I’d prefer her established by then. But let’s see once I produce a release cut.

Glad you think the conveyor belt works - I’m really proud of that one, and grateful for the community feedback which got it to that point. But yeah, I’ll trim Satine’s “daring rescue”, and look at the elevator again. I did originally have a door SFX there, but I actually found that more jarring. I might need to just split the scene - and doing that with hyperspace looks like it’d kill two birds with one stone.

Question for the community: Should I have not called this a release version? I don’t want anyone to feel like they were duped into watching an incomplete episode. I always want to refine my “release” episodes based on feedback, so I’d guess that my version 1.1s will always quickly follow my version 1.0s, but am I misleading you guys by calling what I released a 1.0 release version?

Ahhh, spot on about the 18:59 conversation, I’d missed that. Apologies Knight of Kalee. And we don’t know they have that much of a history yet so the audience wouldn’t assume it relates to previous events. I’ll trim that out.

I’ll see what I can do to extend the opening too. I’m not ready to learn a new piece of software yet to create the audio effects for that sequence, but I’ll see what else I can do in the meantime.

Thanks Knight of Kalee. Glad there was nothing egregious. I’ll check the post-fight conversation and the hyperspace jump!

Edit: Hang on - on the post-fight conversation, I cut the bit about Satine saving Obi-Wan. The conversation now reads: “For a man sworn to peace, you take an unseemly pleasure in the injuries of others.” “For a woman sworn to non-violence, you don’t seem troubled that I could have been killed back there.” “But you weren’t.” “Well, you certainly haven’t changed.”

This way, it reads that she’s being sassy about him getting in a fight (since she’s a pacifist), then he’s effectively saying “I’m fine, thanks for [not] asking”, and her replying “I didn’t need to ask because you clearly can handle yourself.” At least that’s my take.

In the original version of the scene, she tells him off for not thanking her.

Or were you referring to some other conversation?

I think that ultimately, because the movies did Finn such a disservice, the better move might be to minimise him, or at least this particular plot point, from earlier in the sequel trilogy. And I say that really, really liking Finn’s character and what he represents.

He gets an arc set up for him, then entirely ignored in the final movie. There’s no third act to his story. So I think that (for the theoretical first time viewer), he shouldn’t come off as a main character.

Sent.

Sassy/clever Obi-Wan is always good value, agreed. But in this instance I think it’s more of a gain to cut Loathsom.

I do definitely agree that every lightsaber fight cheapens lightsabers, but like the battle droid voices, they are unfortunately just part of the fabric of Clone Wars. My hope is that even after my edit, TCW and Rebels remain the least good Star Wars TV shows- I’m just trying to up the quality of TCW where it needs it most.

I’ll always try to judge the inclusion of lightsabers (or anything) on their pros and cons- in this case I think Ventress having tricked them is a cool intro for her and adds some threat to the episode beyond just “TANKS ARE COMING”. But I’ll also always stay open to community opinion.

I’d really like to avoid Loathsome(?). He’s a very goofy villain.

I think the Ventress stuff is additive though, relatively speaking. Though there’s certainly an argument for dropping… well… almost all of Christophsis.

I take satisfaction from the fact that it’s at least far better than the original movie just since it doesn’t have the Huttlet bits.

Oh boy oh boy Jonh is back! Welcome buddy!

Artan42 said:

I don’t know how much you’ve altered the footage from the original colours but it looks to me like the blacks are deeper which really works in this episode due to the intensive light effects in the city.

It should be the same as the original, but I’ll settle for acceptable. Can anyone else verify whether it looks different?

Why does Obi go to visit the mines?

I’m sure the episode explains this- he’s suspicious that they may be active and Death Watch, and goes to check them out.

Why does the the mines level of operation indicate Death Watch activity?

They’re clearly being used to produce new Mandalorian armour- the same armour that the commando who attacked the Republic cruiser was wearing. He trusts that Satine would be telling him if the peaceful Mandalorians were producing their own armour again.

I don’t know if that was explained in the original or not but it’s odd. I was also confused by Obi’s lightsabre but I figured Vizlar picked it up from the factory on his way upstairs (I’m guessing he followed Satine).

Yeah, you do just kinda have to assume that. There is time for it to work off screen.

I forgot the presence of Onn Free Tar (or however it’s spelt) but I’m glad it’s in this episode as a fat Twi’lek is highly relevant to the new series of The Mandalorian.

I cut just a little of that scene, because there’s a slightly obnoxious bit, but I figured that the rest was harmless enough. I don’t want to be particularly aggressive with my cuts.

The end credits are well laid out. I don’t know if the inclusion of the character concept (the body rigs and so on) is as good an idea as the presence of the digital sketches as they get cut off quite a bit

I think I’ll polish up the movements to better highlight the key areas of the images. But to be honest I’m limited here because there simply isn’t enough of the concept art to fit. We’ll get used to it as part of this show’s identity, I think.

and the music is significantly louder than the other music in the episode.

Good shout, I hadn’t checked the relative levels. I’ll fix that.

The special thanks section has the left side and right side in different blues and there’s a rogue full stop floating at the bottom.

Dammit, I knew I’d forget the full stop. I’ll revisit the whole credits part.

This is all absolutely welcome feedback though! The big thing I want to know is “is anything broken/does it work?”, but I’m going to be gathering every bit of feedback for future polish passes.

Sent!

It’s been a pleasure, and thanks very much for your contributions. I will look at the timing of the opening again - I’m just flushing my brain now after doing nothing but think of this for the last six days.

FIRST EPISODE RELEASED - S01E02 THE DEATH WATCH

Comprising original episodes s02e12 The Mandalore Plot, and s02e13 Voyage of Temptation.

It’s in the tracker.

McFibb, I’ll look into the timing when I’m more sober and/or when I’ve had more feedback, and I’ll fix up the community credits shortly too, for a v1.1. But I’m happy to call this RELEASE VERSION v1.0 , which makes this, finally, the first output after a long period of planning.

Thank you all for your help in getting this over the line. ❤️

Sent! Oh that reminds me - I’ve put together the community credits as one screen of the normal credits, given the same timing as the other main credits. (KoK, you’re credited.)

It’s actually the most unfinished part of the episode, because I couldn’t find a blank starfield to put it over, nor the right font, so I rushed those four seconds out. But the text itself is complete. I’ll fix it for v1.1.

In the credits I can’t list everyone who’s commented in this thread, but I am trying to be as complete as possible when listing the people who’ve given this project at least a good volume of food for thought. I hope nobody finds that unfair - it’s certainly not my intention to minimise anyone’s contribution. If anyone feels under-credited, please message me either here or privately and of course I’ll include you.

Yes - the reason is because in the original, that has narration over it, so keeping it would require the full recreation of audio from scratch. That’s something I might consider in future, as my skills develop, but I don’t want to overload myself right now.

And here’s the ending. Those credits took bloody ages, and I’m dreading recreating them fifty times.

There’s simply not enough concept art for this episode, so I’ve made the decision that all episodes in this show will feature a mix of concept art and other concept design like props and character models/costumes. It’ll be part of this show’s identity.

Either way, the ending can be found against episode S01E02 in my tracker.

I’m going to render the whole episode now as my first full complete release episode, version 1.0.

Then I’m having about ten G&Ts.