Right, I’m back on it, darlings!

There won’t be anything truly NEW for a while, such as a new episode, because I’m going to do the long-promised full polish pass first. I’ll be sure to update the thread title when s04e01 comes out, so people who don’t want to follow all the minutiae can check out for a while.

I’ve got a big list of fixes though, and it’s the right time to start getting the existing episodes up to the best possible standard in response to the Bad Batch and all of your feedback to date. Every existing episode will get rereleased as part of this process (if only because I’m going to update the titles and credits, though usually there’ll be more too).

To be honest I think the biggest transgression against the community by TestingOutTheTest is that they have consistently failed to make any amendments to their behaviour in the face of a huge number of comments asking that they do. I don’t think there’s any one large misdemeanour, so much as an abrasive incompatibility with the way that this community operates demonstrated in a hundred smaller interactions.

Relative to so many online communities this one is particularly peaceful and patient, yet Testing’s actions constantly piss people off and Testing doesn’t seem to care. All it would take would be for Testing to just listen to what people are saying to them and make a little effort to synergise better with the collective for the sake of demonstrating just a little understanding and respect, but they seem disinterested in doing that.

I really admire the amount of meticulous thought that’s going into this.

Artan42 said:

Energy leaves Palp’s body in RotJ. Clones have existed (with Palp’s knowledge) since AotC. Clone tanks are show in RoS. Palps wants to posses Rey in RoS.

He’s the original spirit in a imperfect clone body. That’s the only read I got from watching the film.

That was my take too.

As you say Kalee I’m taking a little break! Though not a deliberate one to be honest, it’s just drawn out a bit longer than expected. Rest assured the gears will start turning again around the 19th!

I really appreciate that analysis, eyepainter. I assumed you’d be in the right mindset to consider it fully. I haven’t watched the movie in a good while, but I thought it was likely that Theed would need some CG additions as you say, which I think we’re still just a tech evolution away from right now. I might still just do a very simple pass edit of the movie to cut that out though, along with anything else that mandates, just to see what’s still broken that would need fixing in order to make that work.

I love the level of thought that’s going into this. It’s fantastic that you have L8WRTR’s and HAL’s excellent versions to mull over and help inform your own changes. This definitely feels like the first of the ‘third generation’ of prequel fanedits.

This might be too much of a tangent for your thread, eyepainter, and it’s certainly not a request for you to make this change, but I wonder if you’ve got any insight into the idea of removing the Naboo ground battle between the Gungans and droids altogether.

It’s something I’ve been considering for a while, and like I say not a request of you, but since you’ve been interrogating the movie so completely lately I’d be interested to know if you think it’s workable (in any edit, not necessarily yours).

For me, the ground battle always takes me out of it, firstly because we have no emotional investment in any of the characters there, but secondly because it’s so CG. The landscape itself looks fake and unnatural to me. I wonder if the sky battle and Maul fight, with the threat that the droids are in Theed, could be sufficient to close out the movie.

Am I right in thinking that v4 will be your ‘final’ version, Nev?

An improvement across the board!

Bottom ones across the board now. Good job.

Agreed with Atom. Top ones work better, except for sandy scenes.

Atom-88 said:

Hi Eyepainter, The Naboo and Tatooine scenes look bette with #2 theatrical grade but I do prefer #3 HDR Cinema for the other scenes. Sorry that’s probably not that much help,bjust my personal opinion 😁.

P.S really looking forward to seeing your new edit of this👍.

Came here to say this. #3 is my favourite across the board, except for a couple of all-desert shots which I think are a little overexposed.

So, as promised for a while now, the next major activity I’ll undertake is a full polish pass to incorporate as much of the new feedback as possible. The downside, naturally, is a delay in returning to producing new episodes, but the upside is of course the refinement to the existing content, especially the earlier content which needs it the most.

Therefore, now’s the best time to give any feedback you have which you haven’t yet shared, and a good time to watch any episodes you haven’t since there’ll be a fair break until the next ones come out!

Off the top of my head, the plan therefore is as follows:

• Update the community credits to include all recent contributors
• Create a new alternative franchise title animation, combining the existing Mandalorian one with the Bad Batch one
• Aggregate all un-actioned feedback by episode into one master document
• Reconsider the ordering of episodes, especially in season one
• Re-think the odd episode title

Then for each episode (including the Tartakovsky ones):

• Rewatch my episode in isolation, noting any further changes I’d personally like to make
• Replace franchise titles and community credits
• Fix end credits to make them a bit more perfect (I don’t think anyone’s noticed but there’s a slight timing disparity in there)
• Review wipe timings (I think I based my timing on an earlier episode’s timings before they’d decided on a different standard later on)
• Make all valuable cuts - sometimes producing A and B versions of episodes for community review (e.g. with Bail in Christophsis)
• Edit opening text (thanks Imhotep and others!) and titles, including alterations due to any new placement

If anyone has any other ideas of things I could do while I’m doing a deep dive into this I’m all ears.

Oh man. This is perfect feedback Imhotep, I love this. I’m really looking forward to the forthcoming polish pass.

I won’t go into all the detail since it’s pretty universally “yes, yes, yes”. Big fan of all the crawl tweaks and your suggestions for further cuts.

I agree on Nightsisters, it does remain a little long and it is quite plot dense. I had considered splitting it into two but I think your smaller tweaks are a better idea.

Thanks so much for this level of detail!

That’s how we all started!

You have a lot of unique ideas, TOTT, have you considered investing in learning the skills required to realise them?

Sure!

SEASON THREE COMPLETE!

-thanks to the releases today of-

RELEASED - s03e08 - Rebels of Onderon

32m50s. Comprising the first two episodes of the Onderon arc, notes as above.

RELEASED - s03e09 - Kings of Onderon

36m28s. Comprising the final two episodes of the Onderon arc, notes as above.

Download link in the tracker spreadsheet, PM me for access.

And don’t forget to check out the new s03e00 bonus episode (v2.0) which transitions us from season two into season three via some Tartakovsky microseries episodes and some Forces of Destiny shorts if you’re interested. Huge thanks to Delpheas for the idea and support here.

As always, thank you all for the ideas, support, feedback and refinements along the way.

I’m interested in feedback on how this season flows as a whole - especially in terms of the balance between Ahsoka, Maul, and the other mains. This season contains all the Lux Bonteri episodes so I’m curious about how it feels with that focus.

Next up will be another short break before I do a large polish pass of the first two seasons, before diving into our season four premiere where Maul finally takes Mandalore.

Right! Of my Onderon arc, the first part (Rebels of Onderon) is rendering now, and I just need to put the presentation polish on the second half (Kings of Onderon) so that shouldn’t be far behind.

I’m glad, because in the end I did manage to find some trims to my second episode:

Firstly, I sped up the transition between the rescue in the royal square and the arrival back in the wilderness, so that now having saved the King the rebels immediately flee the city, rather than conducting a few more operations within it first over a number of days. The action now happens over a single day, with King Rash immediately pursuing them into the wilderness with his full force, so it feels a lot more tense.

Secondly, as much as I love Hondo, I removed him altogether. Previously the attack on the rebel base was conducted in phases, with enough downtime during them for Ahsoka to call Anakin, Anakin to fly to Felucia, Hondo to fly to Onderon, and Ahsoka to distribute the rockets. This added implied hours to the battle. Now, the rebels already have the anti-air rockets, and once their own assumed air superiority gets challenged by the new droid airships, they quickly move to fetch and distribute the guns. It’s no less tense, and this worked out suprisingly smoothly. There’s still a good amount of battle though since it’s a visually interesting one in an otherwise quite political episode.

As always in line with my editing goals, I strove to retain all of the emotional beats and character work, whilst keeping the jeopardy high and the pacing quite tight.

Good progress on the Onderon arc today, it’s nearly done.

I’ve finished the cuts for the first episode, getting the meat down shorter than expected to about 30 minutes. Since the first of my episodes contains the first two episodes of the original arc, we didn’t need the scene where they get attacked to prove their growing skill, as they successfully carry out the strike on the power generator now in my first episode’s second half. I’ve preserved almost all of Ahsoka’s jealousy, except for one scene I had to trim just to get the rebels from finishing their training transitioning into their move on the capital city. I also cut Saw being jealous of Steela - instead, when she’s voted as their leader, he celebrates.

The second of my episodes will probably remain quite long, since I can’t really find any content that needs cutting. I’m not a huge fan of this because I think the quality of the content doesn’t quite warrant a 50-minute runtime, but I don’t think I have an option here.

The main change I’ve made between the original presentation of this arc and my own is that I’ve moved all scenes of the kings into the second episode only. So the first episode purely focuses on the training and first success of the rebels, and will thus be called REBELS OF ONDERON. I’ve then moved the kings into the second episode, with a bit of dialogue modification, so that one then focuses entirely on the kings and their generals (and the rebellion), and will thus be called KINGS OF ONDERON.

I’m not sure exactly when I’ll have this finished, but it should be earlyish next week.

(Reposting from quite a few pages back)

I’d also prefer to not have to use opening text, since it’s not exactly a modern convention, and it’s always better to “show, don’t tell”. But I think I have to, for a few reasons:

Firstly, even in the original versions of some episodes, the newsreel at the beginning carried important exposition that the episodes didn’t cover. Dropping the newsreel - which I think is the right move to mature the tone and give me more editing control - means losing that expositon, which means needing to find an alternate home for it. A good example of this is the holocron arc, where the plotline of Cad Bane finding master Ropal actually happened in the newsreel between two episodes of the arc.

Secondly, sometimes in order to better pace or restructure an episode, I want the ability to cut exposition sequences from the episodes themselves. A one minute text description up front is better than many boring minutes I may have to keep in order to preserve a bit of explanation. A good example of this is my Christophsis, where I can get the main characters onto the planet and establish their mission and relationships without any faff, meaning we only have entertaining content to enjoy.

Thirdly, sometimes I want to recontextualise something that’s going to appear in the episode. In my Domino Squad episode I felt like my big change to make their initial failiure send them to the outpost could have done with more clarity, so I used the intro text to emphasise that they risk lesser duties if they fail. Or in my Holocron episode, to intercut Holocron (Bane + shapeshifter) with Hostage Crisis (Bane + posse), I used the text to emphasise that Bane’s a guy with a network of specialist associates.

Fourthly, I can use it to make causal links. My original Christophsis left the matter of a mole in the Republic open, and reminding the viewer of the Republic mole in Cloak of Darkness encourages the viewer to infer that it’s Argyus, since he matches that role. Mental niggle now removed - and implicitly now the viewer will be more comfortable with any elements not answered in a given episode, trusting it will be addressed later. (Note: I dropped this specific example more recently, but it was useful at the time and I may use this technique again.)

Fifthly, I can also, for example, highlight characters or events a bit more directly, so that the viewer is a little more likely to pay attention to the elements of the episodes that I think are the strongest. Emphasising the Satine angle in our first Mandalore episodes means we treat her as less of a single episode character, and pay particular attention to her. I’ll be doing the same with the political situation in the next Mandalore episode, since it’s important to the later Mauldalore arc.

Sixthly, I can use it like a “previously on The Clone Wars”, like with the Maul arc.

And finally, when I’m not using it for those purposes, I try to use it as an opportunity to keep the viewer on top of the ‘state of the galaxy’, and give a bit more of a sense of the ebb and flow of the war, and keep the whole feeling cohesive. In my first season I tried to emphasise that all of the Separatists attacks were against strategic targets - making them more of a competent threat - but that the Republic during that season successfully established a foothold. In the second season, it’s the rise of scum and villainy, etc.

It’s also worth bearing in mind that while these may be boring for the preexistent Clone Wars viewer, who knows all the necessary context, for the new Clone Wars viewer this infodump may be important to their understanding and enjoyment, therefore a more engaging way to start the episode than it would be for an existing one.

In conclusion, I think it’s more valuable to have it than not. That said though, that’s not me trying to shut down discussion on this, because I think it’s a worthy topic. If I’m missing the bar on any of that, it’s definitely worth discussing. If there are elements of the intro crawls which you guys think I should change, or apply better to achieve the above goals, or additional things I should use those crawls for, I’m all ears.

(I should emphasise here, when I share things like this, it really isn’t to shut down discussion - it’s just to “show my working” and share my thought process on the raised subject. I don’t ever want the fact that I’ve thought about something a bunch to make people feel like I consider the matter final. I can expand on any of this stuff, and there’s nothing in this process or these episodes that I wouldn’t welcome other people’s input on.)

In terms of the format, obviously text gives me the most flexibility - I don’t really have the ability to use any other format, and modifying the newsreel would be too limiting. Luckily, Star Wars as a franchise uniquely has a tolerance for text crawls, so if you can get away with it anywhere, you can get away with it here. Much like wipe transitions, it’s very much a dead medium, but this particular franchise grants a lucky amount of leeway.

My goal, I suppose, is to make this show as good as it can be - even if that ultimately means it still doesn’t pass the modern bar for quality. Because people will always love Star Wars and want the fuller picture - especially now that so much is calling back to TCW - and TCW doesn’t deserve to be the black sheep that people feel they have to avoid or resentfully trudge through. I can’t remove all the imperfections, and sometimes I’ll have to replace one imperfection with another, but ultimately every judgment has to be made against the goal of making the entirety of the experience I produce as palatable as possible - which might incorporate an up-front minute of boredom per episode. I’ll always continue to encourage discussion though, not least because you guys will have new ideas which help me bring up that quality level and minimise those imperfections.

(And if it’s a maths game, you may be pleased to know I’ve already shaved off fourteen hours of almost universally absolute dreck in those thirty episodes released to date alone, and the final 50 episodes should be saving you about 17 hours total.)

Del’s a woman, but yes! OK then, I’ll take a look at refining Dark Force Rising a little further. I’m still split on the inclusion of Bail, but I think what I might do as part of the next polish pass is release some alternate versions so everyone has an A and B to compare to.

Goddamn, Delpheas, that’s some wonderful feedback and ideas.

I LOVE your idea for the hybrid Tartakovsky/TCW:R intro.

And I really, really appreciate that level of detail on the feedback. This is real actionable stuff, and makes me excited about another polish pass. Please keep it coming.

I’ll respond in full soon, I just wanted to get that out here.

Artan, you’ve hit the nail on the head there with the audio transitions - that’s (generally) as they were. That said, if any in particular are jarring I’ll definitely see what I can do.

Delpheas said:

Their isn’t really a contradiction regarding Anakin’s position on the council. Amongst the Prequel Jedi, there are four 4 rankings any Jedi can achieve: Youngling, Padawan, Knight, and Master.
After graduating from Padawan, one is a Knight, many Jedi probably stay at this rank, but those who successfully train a padawan all the way to knighthood are granted the rank of Master. And only Masters can sit on the council. Since Ahsoka left before she was Knighted, Anakin technically didn’t finish her training. Which only adds to his bitterness about being given a council seat, but not a new title. Cus it was the council’s own BS that caused Ahsoka to leave.

Just a thought on this to help clarify. The formal rankings are Youngling, Padawan, Knight and Master. However, when a Knight trains a Padawan, the Padawan would still refer to the person training them as ‘master’. So there are ‘masters’ in the training sense, and ‘Masters’ the formal rank.

Anakin was Ahsoka’s master, but he was never a Jedi Master.

Regarding the 03 Clone Wars footage and the convo from crystal crisis, neither are going to make an appearance in this edit. Both are going to be used in EddieDean’s The Clone Wars: Restructured in some fashion however, so check that out if you’re interested. I’m kinda considering this the movie version of the TCW:R finale.

Wow, I just popped in to check on progress here, I wasn’t expecting to hear that! ❤️

Delpheas said:

Anyway, I was considering waiting until I had watched all of S1 before offering my thoughts, but I figure I’ll give 'em as I go.

Keep 'em coming! I love detailed feedback like this. After season three I’ll do a polish pass of seasons one and two, and I’ve had good indepth feedback from you and at least two others recently, so I’m looking forward to doing a nice batch of refinements.

0100 Dark Force Rising

I know you already stated your reasons for not formatting this episode as part of the series proper, but I would love an alternative version with at least the TCW:R logo for the opening.

Ah, perhaps I should then, for s01e00 and s03e00. Wrap them in properly.

This episode just feels so necessary to me. Though in a single episode like this the long sequences without dialogue and just fighting really drag and could use a trim.

I would consider trimming down and/or cutting the instances of Obi-wan berating Anakin and verbally doubting his readiness for assignments. By the end of the episode he’s giving Anakin a supportive speech about how much he’s grown and matured as his padawan and it doesn’t feel like something Anakin earned over the arc of the episode, it just feels abrupt. And it’s a retread of their dynamic from AotC. It feels especially weird when in the next episode he’s suggesting Anakin is ready to submit for a padawan of his own.

I wasn’t intending to do anything radical to the Tartakovsky content, even though it’s a little jarring compared to TCW, since ultimately Tartakovsky’s gonna Tartakovsk. It’s such a stylised thing that I always felt like it was best allowed to remain in his signature style - other than the elements I always found particularly conflicting with the canon. I’m not married to that decision though and I could take it further if there’s popular support. I’d be interested in specific lines/elements which people think should be removed.

0101 - The New Padawan

Love the opening stinger. It immediately caught my attention and made me curious about what’s going on.

I really like it too. To my mind, it’s part of the “promise” of TCW:R as opposed to TCW. It’s TCW:R saying “This show’s going to emphasise Maul and the Mandalorians, it’s going to bring them together, and oh hey look here’s the Darksaber and Bo Katan.” I also think there’s value in putting it right up front during what I think are the weakest parts of TCW:R - the very start - to generate some momentum that might carry a viewer through it.

That said, people have a valid objection to it, which is that (while we do get our hints of Maul and Mandalore in season one,) we don’t get back to this scene ‘in real time’ until mid/late season three. And there’s certainly a good argument which says “don’t promise something you don’t deliver on for three seasons”. Does knowing that change your opinion on its worthiness?

Admiral Yularen says he’s gonna drop off the “message” at 07:45. The transition was weird. Noticed this in a few other places in other episodes too. Where ibwaa expecting a wipe, there was fast fade to Black and then the next scene.

I’ll review these.

When Ventress makes her entrance, is there any instance of Anakin saying “Ventress” that could be used here, instead of Obi-wan saying it? Any Anakin line that could be used to express disbelief that she’s alive?

Obi-wan flirting with her at all feels out of place, not because he’s never met her, but because last he knew, Anakin had killed her and it was that victory that proved he was ready to he knighted.

To my mind, they learn that Ventress survived offscreen, hence why they’re tracking her in the crawl. Anakin doesn’t need to have killed her to earn a knighting - simply ‘defeating’ her should suffice. I borrowed Smudger’s audio here to at least refer to their original meeting. I will look for an Anakin line though - they don’t actually meet that much in TCW but the Kamino episode might have the line.

I know we’re going to see her again in later episodes, but I missed having any kind of scene where she reported to Dooku or something. Her just vanishing felt odd.

Weirdly enough this is kind of how it is, if I remember right. I don’t think there’s a Dooku conversation, she just talks to that horrible Scottish general then fucks off. My read on this whole situation is that she kind of drew Anakin and Obi-Wan to her mainly so they’d be in the building with her whilst the Separatists were dropping a landing party, at which point it was job done. Though I agree it doesn’t really make much sense.

At 19:24-25, there is an abrupt audio cut and click as it goes from Kenobi to Anakin and Ahsoka

At 23:30 we here Yularan say “reinforcements should be landing in a moment”, but there is no one in frame when he says it and it is unclear who it is directed to. Would be less odd to me if the sound of the shuttle we hear as he’s speaking didn’t cut out abruptly and faded into the shot of Rex. This would help it feel like a connected audio moment.

Noted on these!

Regarding Bail thanking Anakin for his help, a verbal “Your Welcome Senator” or “Of course Senator” or a “Just doing my job Senator” from Anakin would help it feel less out of place. As it is, the only problem I have with this bit is it feels like Bail’s being ignored, so he feels like he was just added in.

I agree that this inclusion just doesn’t quite work. This is how it was originally, Bail says “thanks” and then we cut immediately away to some other clones without any response from Anakin. I really don’t know what my options are here though. Definitely the inclusion of Bail’s three scenes is something I’m still on the fence on. I’d love to keep him since Bail’s good value, “you served my father in the clone wars”, and ultimately his presence here slightly ups the stakes, but it does feel a little disjointed. There is certainly an argument for trimming him entirely just for the sake of getting through this first episode as smoothly as possible in order to build confidence in the project.

I think you should keep Rex introducing Ahsoka to the boys in “The New Padawan” it’s a fun moment which is also important for the all her interactions with the clones and it sets up the finale. In Malevolence, if the viewer hasn’t seen Ahsoka meet the clones, it is odd when one just recognizes her. Sure the viewer can assume they’ve been introduced, but why leave that to an assumption when it can be shown?
Plus ending with Ahsoka gently ribbing Anakin in front of the clones is great setup for their dynamic.

I’ll check this!

01E2 - The Death Watch

This episode was strong, well paced, and enjoyable. Good job. Not much else to say here. You removed the most egregious parts of the episodes seamlessly.

Woop woop! I’m dead pleased with the removal of the conveyor belt, that scene remains the most technical single scene edit I’ve done.

S1E3 - Malevolence

At 2:14-15, as the clone watches the ship crash into him through the window, there’s a rogue frame.

At 7:44-45 the audio transition could be smoother. The whole cut felt a bit abrupt from the clone talking to the ship in hyperspace.

At 22:9-10, another rogue frame.

Thank you!

I do miss seeing Anakin go out of his way to rescue Padme in the Malevolence arc, but I do also like seeing them together less as it helps sell the issues they experience later on. And not seeing her until the “season finale” works well.

The Anakin/Padmé scenes in Malevolence were fine, maybe even cute, but I felt I had to cut them because (1) the contrivance to get them into that situation cheapens quite a few characters, (2) the action on the Malevolence is particularly goofy, with the trains and the droids in particular, (3) It completely throws off the pacing of the arc. But I agree, waiting until the S1 finale works (with a good “it’s been ages since I saw you” scene), and then we get more of her later in the show.

Season 1 Thoughts, So Far:

This is a marked improvement over the original first season, notably the first episodes, with much of the gunk removed and the good stuff uplifted with tighter editing and excellent rearranging.

That’s the goal, so I’m super happy that’s your takeaway!

One thing:

The intro text for “The Death Watch” sets up that Anakin is off somewhere WITH Ahsoka, so I was really thrown when he showed up in this episode without her. It doesn’t feel narratively satisfying to have the next time we see him after he gets his padawan, for her to be missing. Especially since we haven’t really had an opportunity to watch them grow into their new roles at this point. He literally just decided that he isn’t gonna pawn her off on Obi-wan.

I think Malevolence would make a better episode 2 than “The Death Watch” as it has Anakin with Ahsoka, gives us more time to absorb her as a character, and ends in such a way that it doesn’t feel odd to not see her in the next ep. “The New Padawan” ended with them going off to check on the fleet, and the Malevolence stuff is entirely focused on that. And so it kinda felt like it was continuing on from where New Padawan ended.

And a quick glance at the opening crawl for “501st Legion” shows that it would work just fine with Ep 2 & 3 swapped.
Though I would still want TDW’s crawl wording to be less confusing regarding Ahsoka if possible.

Yes, I intend to reorder some of season one, I think. Imhotep (I believe, sorry if I’m wrong) suggested a good reordering for season one which fixed the matter of Ahsoka’s early absence plus made the development of the villains, and particularly Ventress, flow really well.

P.s. I love the titles you came up with for the 03 sections of Tales from the Clone Wars. So much fun! Which is what this ep is gonna feel like, a fun bridge between 2 & 3.

Good fun eh!

Edit: so just musing about how to present the series finale, cus having watched RotS-NCC on its own, Siege of Mandalore on its own, and then my combination edit, I have a hard time imagining getting to the end of the series and not watching the full ending. If it’s just Siege of Mandalore then about 20 min in you lose two of your main characters and only see one of them 1 more time, and there’s no context for Vader’s appearance. Whereas RotS-NCC on its own just feels incomplete. You wonder the whole time, where is Ahsoka, Rex and Maul?

But 3 1/2 hrs is a lot, and I’m wondering if splitting into two or episodes might not be a bad idea?

No need to respond to these musing atm, I know S5 is a ways off. 😃

I’ve thought about this a little. In the most simple case, I might place the first two(?) Siege of Mandalore episodes before ROTS, leaving the second two to be played afterwards (rather than interspliced). But I might also do something more radical, and chop ROTS into episodes too, so the whole thing can flow a bit more naturally. I’m not certain yet.