EddieDean

‘Blast’ has a similar mouth shape to ‘slipped’.

Hal 9000 said:

Wish I’d have thought of doing an alternate audio track without all but the necessary AI lines. I mean, of course I still could, but I’ll sit on that for the moment.

Isn’t that just essentially V2?

You could even, with my proposed structure, take lots of Boba’s dialogue about needing a clan/tribe and make it direct conversations with Din (as opposed to Fennec/others), to help push Din back to the Mandalorians after his original rejection.

Agreed, but it gives you fewer narrative challenges to work around. I’m all for radical changes, and Acbagel has always delivered great solutions, but BoBF’s ending works nicely as a third act finale and narrative peak. That might be diminished if it’s cut to fit into a larger narrative about alliances, especially as his earlier appearance in the movie then wouldn’t be delivered upon by, say, a suprise appearance in the movie’s finale which might now be expected.

How much of BoBF would that preserve, doing it the way you currently suggest, Acbagel? I don’t think we should be losing too much of the good present-day BoBF content just to mitigate the structural issues with Mando season 3.

I’ll repost a slightly edited version of my thoughts from PM to you, in case others want to chime in:

In terms of BoBF content, I’ve just looked over your Boba movie V1 (from a good while back), and that has 70 minutes of content not including solo Mando or Luke, or the twin Hutts or rancor content (which you used in your Boba movie V2). Realistically I’m sure there’s 90+ minutes of viable Tattooine-only story there. And I think the reason for Din going to Tattooine can simply be because he’s answering the call from Boba at a time when the Mandalorians aren’t ready to reclaim their homeworld just yet. They’re bros now after their last adventure together.

Buuuuut… maybe there’s a less radical ordering here, where you can get both the most out of the Boba story AND extend out the time that Mando and Grogu were apart, which I know is a (sensible) priority for you. So how about something closer to the ordering of the original release, but just using your Book 5 edits to keep Din and Grogu apart for longer:

• Movies 1-4 as before. They’re perfect. Din’s lost his ship and his kid. He thinks the Mandalorians are scattered. [Offscreen] he’s ordered a new ship from Peli, but it’ll be a while.
• Movie 5 pretty much just from BoBF, but Din and Grogu DON’T reunite. Mando is back to bounty hunting, listless, no clan. He chases the bounty against the dog-butcher people to find the Covert, meets them, makes a gift for Grogu, and gets kicked out. No mention of redemption - he’s now at his absolute lowest. He goes to get his ordered ship (so he can go visit Grogu as much as use it for hunting) and gets pulled in to Boba’s whole storyline on Tattooine (which becomes the main plot of the movie, happening throughout this storyline). After helping Boba, he heads to Luke’s planet, and gives Ahsoka the gift, but is discouraged from meeting Grogu, who we only see distantly. He’s now realised he really needs a family (thanks Boba) and, without Grogu, wants to give the Mandalorians another try.
• Either at the end of Movie 5 or the start of Movie 6, he goes to the Covert now on the Rocky planet (using more of his original entrance there). THIS time he’s much more desperate - he asks to atone. Only NOW does he learn he can do that at the waters of Mandalore. NOW he has a fresh mission - and still no Grogu.
• Most of your current Book 5 now becomes your Book 6. We don’t have your current content on the ringworld or with Pelli remaking the ship, which removes ~35 minutes (of 2h20) which gets us to the Vane/Gorian Shard plot much sooner. We instead fill that lost time with Luke training Grogu, and perhaps the Mando-birds sideplot. At the end of the movie, we see Grogu making the decision to rejoin Din, and cut to them flying together (using the technique for this you used previously where they blast off together).
• Movie 7: Now follows directly from the aftermath of the Gorian Shard fight, where the Mandalorians have safe haven on Nevarro but Bo-Katan’s been tasked to gather the clans and reclaim their home, and Grogu and Din are with them. We open with Bo and Din going to rescue Axe Woves (they don’t get distracted by the rest of Plazir) and Bo finally takes the Darksaber back. Now we’re ready to lead people to Mandalore. We continue with the two finale episodes, which are a nice straightforward story using all the pieces we currently have in play, but we intercut this with the full Pershing story. The Pershing story fits here most of all because (1) it builds on the current knowledge of the Imperial Remnant and New Republic, but mostly (2) because it ties closely back into the cloning plot and the reveal of Gideon’s plans. The scene of Carson finding that Gideon escaped can come just after it’s discussed by Pershing, to better tie it all together and keep the whole movie on theme.

Also, this way, each movie would come out closer to 120-140 minutes.

Thanks buddy, I’m really glad you’re enjoying it! Trust me on the Maul/witches plotline - it gets VERY good. I was a doubter at first when Savage showed up. But it goes places.

Thanks very much for your nitpick notes! I’ve renamed those capital filenames to lower case. And I agree with your thoughts on Politics of War - I’ve now marked it as a maybe for Skywalker saga, with a viewing note that it suits the prequel era well.

I’ve noted your suggestions for LL too, for when I catch that next pass.

I’m afraid not. I don’t subscribe to any hosting services, so it’s multiple free Google drives.

Yeah I’d definitely let Ahsoka finish before thinking about picking it up. I wouldn’t anticipate that it’ll need interleaving with Mando in quite the same way that the Boba show did.

Besides, I’m excited to see you work on Bad Batch! 😉

Are we back? We’re back!

I think that’s great, nearly perfect - I’d just question the word ‘desolate’, which implies that the worlds are barren and thus not particularly valuable for the First Order to hold. And what are the FO’s goals? Is it to destroy the Jedi? Or is it to restore Imperial rule? Or are they extremists seeking revenge?

Last thought for now. I’ve seen your demo shot of Boba sniping Din as Din leaves the Tuskens with Boba’s armour, and love it. We’ve talked a little here about dialogue for Boba just to sell why he’s not attacking now. Perhaps the word ‘Patience’ would do? (I think he says that in BobF.) The implication would be that he knows he shouldn’t go toe-to-toe against someone in Mandalorian armour (especially shiny new silver armour), further justified when he only attacks Din on Tython when he has Fennec with him (and a sniper shot aimed at Grogu).

Now onto Book 3 (I’m doing a hasty review through with fresh eyes): I know you want to keep Gideon’s presence high throughout the series, but I’d change his appearances in this one. You have him in two main sequences in this movie - the first being the Shadow Council scene (where we learn that the Imperial Remnants are coordinated, get some good context for wider plots including Thrawn, and have Gideon declare he wants to stamp out the Mandalorians), and the second being the tracker scene and Gideon talking about catching Mando and Grogu to continue their cloning.

I think both of these need a little shift, and will try to justify why. But firstly, let me address the fact that I don’t think we need Gideon to have a strong presence in this movie. Yes it’s nice to see him, and to keep him feeling like an overhanging threat. But, so long as each movie at least escalates that threat, I think that need is satisfied. Compare now to your current Book 5, where we don’t see Grogu in the movie until the very end, which leaves us on an interesting development. I think doing the same here would be fine - you still come away from this movie on a punchy note where the Gideon plot has escalated.

So, regarding the tracker plot, I know it’s used here currently to illustrate Gideon’s will and skill to hunt Grogu down. However, the plot about capturing Grogu and his clone relevance really doesn’t continue until your Book 4. I know you’re using it to make the Imperial presence on the Mon Calamari planet more of a trap, but to be honest I don’t think that quite sells, with the dialogue we have. I also don’t think it’s necessary - from Din’s perspective his whole storyline in this movie has been to find Mandalorians, something he finally does at the end. Personal stakes for Gideon don’t add much here (especially as the Imperial resistance is quite weak), so having them as a thorn in his side which helps ingratiate him to Bo Katan’s faction is plenty.

Secondly, regarding the Shadow Council plot, I think that would work better AFTER that Mandalorian-Imperial conflict, as the triggering act behind making Gideon then declare that the Mandalorians must be stamped out. That then leaves our episode on the nice punchy finale (Thrawn reveal, escalation and all), which leaves the threat now overhanging the future movies. It’s the Mandalorians directly striking at Imperials which makes it into a vendetta for Gideon. I would also, as some have suggested, trim the lines about requisitions, as they’ll take now three movies to pay off. (Boba and team have also destroyed the Imperial base on Nevarro, including Gideon’s clones, this movie, so he’s taken a double hit onscreen, further justifying his rage at the end.)

This way, you’d have a straightforward Din-Grogu adventure as they seek Mandalorians, with issues and false leads along the way (and nearly bumping into Boba again), with their actions ending up triggering an escalation of the conflict between Mandalorians and Imperials.

Then, in your Book 4, you could introduce “I’ve placed a tracker” and that subplot just after Mando leaves the planet with that ex-Imperial warlord. We know she’s got ties to Thrawn, and thus the Shadow Council, so it’s absolutely feasible that an Imperial spy could be operating there to report back to Gideon. The dialogue there would reinforce that Gideon wants Grogu - and then he’d strike immediately, on the very next planet, where Din finally meets Boba and the Imperials show up to kidnap Grogu. Again, I think that’s neater, and keeps each movie more focused. You could cut the two elements of the tracker scene around the one of Din on the Crest trying to get Grogu to grab the ball with the force.

A final note on moving the tracker scenes to the following movie - this new suggested ordering would now make more sense of the lines about Pershing’s cloning work being lost, since in this ordering, this discussion would follow the events of Din and co destroying the final Nevarro facility (including clones) the movie prior.

I’ve also just spotted that you have a repeated shot in your first movie: Both times Din approaches the small space station where he gets the prison break job, his display shows the same readout then the camera pans up to the approaching station. I’d cut that the second time - you have enough of a different shot of him approaching it again without needing that first one.

At the very end, I’d also just cut right from the Crest’s feet touching down to the shot of Grogu and Din leaving the ship as the music swells - no need to take a pacing pause to have Din tell Grogu not to follow him (this time).

Another thought for Book 2. We’ve talked a lot about the overlap point between Din and Boba, around Fennec’s unconscious body. I think the ordering you have right now from Din’s perspective is absolutely right, but I’d tweak Boba’s just slightly. I’d cut from the scene of Din and Grogu flying away (the shot of the Crest from behind going off into space) to the scene of Boba discovering Fennec - but only to the point where he turns her over and sees who she is. (This works nicely with the shot of the ship leaving, since abnormally for this show, the camera doesn’t follow the ship away - it’s almost as if the direction here says “there’s more to see on Tattooine first even though Din is leaving”). Then, once Boba turns over Fennec, cut to the scene of levity in the Crest cockpit into the flight toward the wetlands planet (music works for this), and the scene of Din and Grogu seeing Cara’s fight. Then back to Tattooine for Boba and Fennec now sitting at a warm fire, and you’re back to where you were. This version of events just slightly improves the timing of scenes relative to each other, and makes a bit more logical sense to me.

Hey Acbagel, it’s been a while, hope you’re well!

A little while back you shared the final cutlist for Book 5 and said the VFX was nearly complete - are we close to release? (I’d be happy to view a draft if you don’t have time right now for your own final pass!)

One note on your Book 5 cutlist stood out to me - “Added a few new wipe transitions throughout the mines to cover up old Grogu scenes” - do bear in mind that wipes can absolutely be overdone, and you might not need any at all. It’s normal in movies (including Star Wars ones) to convey a longer period of travel as a series of regular cuts (not wipes), which might be plenty here to carry us through.

Finally, since you’ve mentioned a v4 pass on Books 1-4 incorporating feedback, just one more note on Book 1: Regarding the fish guy’s bounty capture and subsequent scenes, I know you tried two approaches. The first approach was “I can bring you in cold or hot” hard cutting to him being slammed into carbonite. I remember suggesting privately that you extend that out a bit more, to get the better introduction to the Razor Crest. You then extended it out for approach two, including the scene of the snooty dude whistling for a cab to take them to where the Razor Crest was parked (a scene originally used presumably to give Mando some early combat, since in the original he fights a beast out on the ice). Your second approach also includes the good scene of fish dude saying “The Razor Crest is a nice ship” and asking about why Mandos don’t take off their helmets - which then hard cuts to carbonite. You want to keep that scene on the ship as it adds a bit of context for introductions and the movie’s themes, plus gives fish dude a bit more character which will pay off later. However (though I know I suggested it), the scenes of Mando picking up his ship frankly drag. But you can have it both ways! I’ve made an alternate cut of this that works very smoothly, cutting right from “I can bring you in cold or hot” to Mando’s ship taking off above the cantina (no scenes of it parked on the ice) and then into fish dude talking, before he gets frozen. It’s much cleaner, gives you the best of both worlds, keeps the pacing up, and is a very easy cut to make as the music smooths out nicely. I’d recommend you try that!

Miles00x said:

No problem, I’m glad you approve and that I could save you the time experimenting with it!

Always! I absolutely welcome help like this, it makes the show better for everyone!

Excellent work, I love this! Thanks so much. I’ll roll that into the next batch of changes - and credit you of course.

I’ve just checked and you’re totally right. Huh! I’ve had that wrong in my head for years.

Not a typo if you’re British! 😘

Glad you’re enjoying it though!

Darth Muffy said:

Looking over EddieDeans The Clone Wars: Refocused spreadsheet creation for the first time!..

Just watched Prologue: Life and Death & a few of the first episodes and coming from someone that simply just couldn’t get into The Clone Wars, This way of watching them just simply works. I’ll give my full review at IFDB once I’ve finished it all. Thank you EddieDean for this 👍

Thanks dear ❤️

I’m a data analyst, I do love putting together a good information-rich spreadsheet that’s minimally overwhelming. Using colour VERY carefully is the key!

Cheers for the feedback Sean Sterio.

To your points:

• I agree, this episode is fairly rushed and doesn’t quite hang together well enough to be something you’d imagine seeing on TV. The pacing is quick, especially the wrap-up (with Bail Organa’s radio call at the end). It’s the episode that’s taken the most work and the most iteration, but since the original episode’s content was so very poor, I’ve really had to settle here for getting us through it as quickly as possible. I think doing that, plus warning viewers that it’s not great, so they can just get through it and on to better content, is the lesser of the available evils. That said, I’m always open to tangible improvements if anyone has further ideas they’d like to demonstrate.
• Regarding Ahsoka, I’m fairly confident that I’ve included the vast majority of her interactions with Anakin and her ‘snippiness’. I’ve trimmed a small number of her most outstanding annoyances here, but nothing material, and left most of it in, because, as you say, we need to see her develop and mature from this baseline. The remaining early season one episodes preserve more of the snips/sky-guy behaviour. Maintaining her growth was key - I just sought to minimise those elements which first put people off her right from the beginning.
• As for Ventress, this is kind of how the original played out. If you watch the originals in chronological order, Ventress is there to distract the Jedi in order to enable the invasion fleet to land, then she just disappears from the story - in the original, it’s to go steal Jabba’s son, whereas in my version, it’s feasibly to go prepare to rescue Nute Gunray (though I have considered putting the scene where she’s given that mission into this one). But in a lot of ways this is an issue with the original content. It was important to me to include Ventress in this episode because she is a strong presence in my first season.
• Regarding the droids, I haven’t trimmed them much. Many have requested that I cut out their voices altogether, but I think that’s impossible as some of their dialogue in various episodes carries important plot information. And I don’t find them as bad as some do. So I’ve trimmed their highest goofiness, whilst preserving a good amount of it.

Either way, thank you for your feedback - I hope you continue with the show, because this episode is easily the weakest and the rest get much stronger quickly. I’d be very interested to see others’ interpretations of that first episode, but I think I’ve taken it as far as I can myself.

Keep it coming!

Oh I love this! I will mention it.

Very exciting!

Yep, all noted! I’ll prioritise those changes too, so preferences are welcome!

Right, I’m gathering notes from all prior sources of feedback, and smoothing out my pipeline for making small polishes more easily and with minimal mental effort, so I can just pick up quick changes over the next few weeks.

For now:

• I’ve re-uploaded the Rebels Recap movie with fixed audio sync in the first ten minutes
• I’ve pulled the Ahsoka’s Decision fan remade scene out of the Scipio episode, but made both available in the spreadsheet (this one’s still uploading)
• I’ve fixed a typo in the A Friend in Need episode (still rendering)

I just found that someone had PM’d me this a while back. I’ll keep them anonymous, since it was a direct message, but it’s an interesting idea:

"Thanks a bunch! With a little work this should prove to be a more optimal viewing experience And once Season 3 rolls in I should be able to go foward without having to jump around again.

On a somewhat unrelated note I noticed you were also active in in Phantom Menace improvement thread. And it was either you or someone else who had suggested that Qui-Gon guide Anakin via the force.

But there was an aspect of that change that stuck out to me, particularly the idea of him while meditating as opposed to when he’s dying to do it. If you could take a moment to read through this I think this change specific change could add a lot more weight the story.

On the outside it may seem like such a minor change. However, something like this can explain what happens right after. What if this force telepathy of sorts drains him of his stamina significantly? And it’s this act that causes mold in the upper hand and finish him off. Now it may seem foolish for quae gone to potentially risk his life to help Anakin. But remember Jinn truly believes Anakin is the chosen one, the hope of the galaxy. It would be completely in his character to lay his life down not only because he’s compassionate for Anakin, but so the galaxy may prosper. And as we see early in the movie, he’s no stranger to making huge gambits. Something like this that only parallels ANH with Obi’s sacrifice but also Luke in TLJ with the force weakening him. As George Lucas would say it would be “poetry”.

But we can also take it even further with the implications and set ups this has for the future. Obi-Wan’s harsh treatment of Aniken in AOTC could be stem from repressed resentment that he has towards Anakin for being an indirect catalyst in his Master’s death. But he would never want to admit it, considering he truly does love Anakin as a brother. You could even say that Obi seeing Qui-Gon’s defiance within Anakin is the first trait that causes him to feel a familiarity with boy and leads to their initial bond. As such, another reason he’s so strict with him is because he doesn’t want Ani doing anything reckless that would cause him to sacrifice himself, the way his master once did.

Seems minor on the surface initially, but it brings huge narrative pay off in terms of the overall story. Would probably help if some highlighted how much this is sacrifice for Qui-Gon with facial close-ups of him straining himself. Maybe with some sweat, and the reddening of his face. Not sure how possible this is in terms the visual edits. Another option would be to have Qui Gon’s voice fade in and out while also sounding rushed with Anakin picking up on it. Some edited voice clips from when the two of them are running away from Maul back on Tatooine could facilitate this idea. Something along the lines of “Qui-Gon slow down” Or “Qui-Gon you sound tired”.

If Anakin was made aware of Qui-Gon’s sacrifice, it’s only natural that you’d want to aspire to be more like him by being a risk taker in the future.

In any case, these are the kind of things that insomnia can do to a guy. I’m no editor myself, so this is an exactly something I’d be able to do. I just really wanted to get this idea out there for feedback and consideration."