DrDre

kk650 said:

DrDre said:

kk650 said:

DrDre said:

This is a very rough approximation, and is definitely not an accurate color reference, but the Mike Verta scans look something like this:

…whereas the print itself looks something like this:

On my main monitor the top image looks too red and the bottom image looks too blue, you can see it in the highlights on C3PO. There’s a very noticable difference in colour between those two frames, at least to my eyes. Both are oversaturated as well IMHO.

For those interested in comparing, here’s roughly that frame from the new Star Wars Semi-Specialised Edition V2.6 I just uploaded to tehparadox:

It will be interesting to compare your regrade (and others) to the calibrated frame scans, once I’ve digitized them. I have a number of frames of this exact shot. I will also be getting a number of shots of the entry to Mos Eisley scene next week. I’m very interested what that scene looks like. Particulary the color of R5-A2 (orange or yellow?). Once I’ve started the scanning process I will create a separate thread for color references.

I have around 100-200 Star Wars technicolor print frames as well from different parts of the film, I bought them from an ebayer a while back when I was researching the colours for the Star Wars Semi-Specialised Edition V2.5, perhaps from the same person you did. They’re lovely to look at but as NeverarGreat said before, the colours can often be inconsistant from shot to shot, meaning every frame can’t be taken as exact colour references unless you plan to replicate those shot by shot colour inconsistancies. I have a feeling that every Star Wars technicolor print also looked a little different from each other colourwise as well.

I’m curious, are you planning to catalog these print scans just as a reference for everybody here to get a better feel for the colours of a Star Wars technicolor print or do you plan on creating a Star Wars release graded to a technicolor print similar to what NeverarGreat has been working on?

It is true that technicolor prints vary in color. However, the original grading itself also suffers from inconsistencies, as poita also noted in the past. I personally feel these need to be replicated for a print restoration project. Of course in color grading a semi-specialised edition the goals are somewhat different, and I would go with what’s aesthetically appealing. I plan to catalogue them as a reference for everybody, but I’m also working on another project, which involves golor grading a print scan. However, to know more about that I advice you to contact williarob.

kk650 said:

DrDre said:

This is a very rough approximation, and is definitely not an accurate color reference, but the Mike Verta scans look something like this:

…whereas the print itself looks something like this:

On my main monitor the top image looks too red and the bottom image looks too blue, you can see it in the highlights on C3PO. There’s a very noticable difference in colour between those two frames, at least to my eyes. Both are oversaturated as well IMHO.

For those interested in comparing, here’s roughly that frame from the new Star Wars Semi-Specialised Edition V2.6 I just uploaded to tehparadox:

It will be interesting to compare your regrade (and others) to the calibrated frame scans, once I’ve digitized them. I have a number of frames of this exact shot. I will also be getting a number of shots of the entry to Mos Eisley scene next week. I’m very interested what that scene looks like. Particulary the color of R5-A2 (orange or yellow?). Once I’ve started the scanning process I will create a separate thread for color references.

The top Leia shot appears very green to me, while the shot next to it appears very orange/pink. This latest version seems to emphasize the color imbalances inherent to the JSC. I think I prefer a gamma corrected version of your previous attempt.

jedimasterobiwan said:

DrDre said:

This is a very rough approximation, and is definitely not an accurate color reference, but the Mike Verta scans look something like this:

…whereas the print itself looks something like this:

Are these the accurate colors?

No, this is a fast approximation by eye. I will try to make a few more photos, although these themselves are not yet calibrated and only give you a rough idea of what the colors look like.

I will be using one of these 35mm color targets to ensure an accurate color representation:

I hope to make some accurate scans of the frames. I’ve ordered some equipment, such that I can calibrate the setup.

NeverarGreat said:

It looks like I have quite a few frames from that seller as well, judging from the 5 frame cutting. They’re probably from the same reels. I don’t have any from the first 3 reels, but the preview images showed them to be very yellow, with red highlights. The Ben frames seem to indicate this, and poita’s scan of the burning homestead as well. It would be interesting to see these early frames in more detail.

He didn’t have reel 1 sadly, but I have roughly 500 frames from all the other reels, with 500 more under way. The photos he posted are not that accurate, and overemphasize the yellow cast. The Tatooine footage looks sort of like this:

A natural yellowish sand color.

This is a very rough approximation, and is definitely not an accurate color reference, but the Mike Verta scans look something like this:

…whereas the print itself looks something like this:

Another conclusion I can draw from looking at the actual technicolor frames, is that the Mike Verta ColorRef videos, which contain rough corrections to the raw scan of the technicolor print he used as the basis for his Legacy Edition are very inaccurate for many scenes. Most of the Tatooine footage is too red and desaturated.

Here are a few photos of a number of pieces of Star Wars history:

Another 500 frames are on their way to my home, so I’ll have 1000 reference frames for roughly 200 shots by next week…

Swazzy said:

Would you say they’re closer to the results you were getting from using your red-fade correction algorythim?

I don’t have frames from reel 1, so I’m not too sure, but these are also much too contrasty.

Yesterday I recieved roughly 500 technicolor frames for Star Wars, and the colors are totally amazing. These frames span many scenes for reels 2 to 6, including but not limited to the Tatooine sunset, the scene where Luke meets Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan’s cabin, the Death Star conference room scene, the Mos Eisley cantina, various Death Star scenes, and many more. If there are green shifts in the print, they are far less apparent than one would expect based on the many discussions we’ve all had on the subject. It’s also pretty clear that most of the regrades we’ve been doing (including my own) are way too contrasty and saturated. Skin tones are very natural, without tending to red or yellow. Also, the colors of the Senator print photos are not very accurate. In reality the colors on the print are much more neutral than those photos would suggest. For example the walls of the Death Star conference room scene are almost a neutral gray with a slight hint of green. However the lights in the room are light blue, creating a sort of mix between blue and greenish gray in some areas. However, one thing is certain: the conference room walls are not blue.

I plan to create a separate thread for these reference frames. I will scan the frames with a calibrated method to ensure their accuracy.

I’m actually using both the GOUT and the JSC for this regrade, so the outcome should be a regraded GOUT and JSC with the same color grading.

Swazzy said:

Almost had it…

Hahaha, yours is looking pretty great too!

Here’s an update, where the contrast and saturation are matched to the earlier GOUT regrade:

UnitéD2 said:

Does it work better because the JSC master would have been less faded ?

The color grading of the JSC is closer to the theatrical grading overall, so I guess that does help.

The contrast and saturation have to be lowered, and possibly some tweaking, but both the sunset, and the Death Star conference room scene come out looking far closer to the prints, than the GOUT regrade.

There are still a few inconsistencies in the color grading that bug me. Particulary the double sunset doesn’t look like it does on technicolor prints. So, I used the same principle on the Japanese Special Collection for some preliminary results (contrast and saturation will be adjusted). The sunset looks like what it’s supposed to:

Here are a few more preliminary results:

Fang Zei said:

Lust-in-Phaze raises a good point re: marketing.

George may not have wanted to spend a single dime remastering the unaltered versions, but the company still made sure to advertise their release. I’d be curious to know just how well the GOUT did in terms of sales.

The GOUT Star Wars was still in the top 100 sales in 2015 with 153,190 units:

http://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/bluray-sales/2015

That looks really good! In fact it looks (Neverar)Great! 😃

moviefreakedmind said:

Han Solo IRL said:

Would it be Disney in charge of restoring Star Wars material or Lucasfilm? If it’s the latter then I’m not sure that what Gluck says would even matter. That, and we don’t even know what question he was answering. Better to just reserve all expectations until April rather than go in optimistic or pessimistic.

I agree. I don’t doubt that Gluck knows what he’s talking about, but he wouldn’t be the one to spill the beans if this is actually happening. To my knowledge he didn’t say anything about whether or not restorationists are or have been working on this stuff.

He essentially only confirmed, that the negative of Star Wars is still conformed to the SE. He mentions nothing about the scans of the SE negative or the OOT elements. In other words a digital reconstruction of the OOT can exist, or can be reconstructed, while the physical negative is still conformed to the SE, and the OOT elements are in storage. Furthermore, this does not even preclude the possibilities surrounding Mike V’s Legacy edition, which in principle could be released without any involvement of the original negative or the original OOT elements. I doubt the preservation and restoration people of either Disney or Fox would actually need to get involved, if Lucasfilm itself decides the quality of Legacy is sufficient to be considered an official 4K restoration suitable for release on various media. Also, it’s interesting that the Star Wars show specifically mentions some surprise surrounding the film that started it all, and not the other two films in the trilogy.

Here are the first two frames. More on the way… (35mm top, WOWOW middle, regrade bottom)

Kingherb said:

I would love to see a video sample of the latest grading DrDre, it looks excellent from the shots you have posted.

Thanks! I will create a sample, and post it in the thread.

joefavs said:

Apologies if this has been addressed, but what are your plans to release this, Dre (if indeed you have any such plans)? Are you considering combining this with the upscaling project you were working on a while back? I really enjoyed following that thread and was kind of bummed when it fizzled out without a finished product. I’d love to see that brought back in this new context.

At first it will just be the regraded GOUT. While the idea of doing an upscale sounds appealing, it’s pretty time consuming. I’m also working on a Raiders of the Lost Ark theatrical regrade, so that will have a higher priority.

Double post