DrDre

imperialscum said:

DrDre said:

imperialscum said:

DrDre said:

imperialscum said:

ROTJ had some of the best character development in OT. While Han’s character development in ESB was great, I think Luke’s and Vader’s character developments in ROTJ were even a level above that.

I disagree. The Luke/Vader arc was great, but it was the only significant arc in the film. The other characters were just going through the motions, shells of their former selfs. TESB had great arcs for all the main characters. Every character was in a very different place personally at the end of the second installment from where they started off. This puts TESB miles ahead of ROTJ in the character development department.

Different place in terms of character? Not entirely true. For example, Luke does not actually change much in ESB. He is still this enthusiastic and reckless guy as he was at the beginning. He leaves Yoda’s training pretty much the same person (recklessly nonetheless). Leia again does not change much besides finally revealing her feelings to Han. The only one with a significant change is Han’s character. It is unfortunate that Lucas made Leia proclaim her love to Han already in ESB. I think iff he would leave that for ROTJ, those two character could be used way better in ROTJ.

In ROTJ Luke becomes completely different person compared to ANH and ESB. Same goes for Vader. While Vader was likeable and badass in ANH and ESB, he was pretty one dimensional. In ROTJ his character get a lot of depth and becomes very interesting. Even Leia and Han actually get development in ROTJ and are considerably different compared to ANH and ESB. While it might be a development you do not like but it is still a considerable development.

Anyway, I did not say ROTJ is overall the best in terms of character development. I just said that Luke’s and Vader’s character development are individually better than anything seen in ANH or ESB.

Luke doesn’t change much? Seriously? You throw out a pretty part of the story. I think this guy…

You are unable to differentiate between current state of the character due to some external “disturbance” and actual change/development of character. That scene is just Luke still being shocked due to the reveal and due to trauma related to his damn limb being cut off. So what exactly are the actions and dialogue he makes after that scene that indicate any difference (within ESB of course)? In the one scene that is left after that one I do not see any change of character.

I disagree. For one a person who experiences trauma is never the same after such an external “disturbance”. This is the very nature of trauma, and Luke experienced trauma in more ways than just physical injury. He went to Cloud City, believing he might be able to save his friends from the clutches of the man who murdered his father, only to come up one hand short, and discovering that his noble hero father is the ultimate bad guy. A man is, what he believes in, and everything Luke believed, has turned out to be a lie. I would call that a life changing event. The Luke at the end of TESB definitely is no longer the naive young rebel he was at the start of the film. He is now a Jedi in training, who’s life has been turned upside down. The idea that he would just get a new hand, and go on as if nothing has happened (which is what you seem to suggest) is ludricous to me.

Thanks Williarob! You’re the best! 😃

imperialscum said:

DrDre said:

imperialscum said:

ROTJ had some of the best character development in OT. While Han’s character development in ESB was great, I think Luke’s and Vader’s character developments in ROTJ were even a level above that.

I disagree. The Luke/Vader arc was great, but it was the only significant arc in the film. The other characters were just going through the motions, shells of their former selfs. TESB had great arcs for all the main characters. Every character was in a very different place personally at the end of the second installment from where they started off. This puts TESB miles ahead of ROTJ in the character development department.

Different place in terms of character? Not entirely true. For example, Luke does not actually change much in ESB. He is still this enthusiastic and reckless guy as he was at the beginning. He leaves Yoda’s training pretty much the same person (recklessly nonetheless). Leia again does not change much besides finally revealing her feelings to Han. The only one with a significant change is Han’s character. It is unfortunate that Lucas made Leia proclaim her love to Han already in ESB. I think iff he would leave that for ROTJ, those two character could be used way better in ROTJ.

In ROTJ Luke becomes completely different person compared to ANH and ESB. Same goes for Vader. While Vader was likeable and badass in ANH and ESB, he was pretty one dimensional. In ROTJ his character get a lot of depth and becomes very interesting. Even Leia and Han actually get development in ROTJ and are considerably different compared to ANH and ESB. While it might be a development you do not like but it is still a considerable development.

Anyway, I did not say ROTJ is overall the best in terms of character development. I just said that Luke’s and Vader’s character development are individually better than anything seen in ANH or ESB.

Luke doesn’t change much? Seriously? You throw out a pretty part of the story. I think this guy…

…has a very different perspective on life, than this guy:

Yeah, I know. This is just a little experiment to see what can be done with a crappy source like the bluray. I’m also looking at the WOWOW.

Turisu said:

Could you post some comparison shots with the unaltered BD?

Many thanks. Very excited to see where this is going. 😃

I’m on a two day holiday right now, but I will post some comparisons when I get back on Thursday.

Overall, I personally prefer the earlier color grading, which to me seems more natural and balanced.

Here’s an update of the film like color grading, based on litemakr’s 35mm LPP preservation:

Here’s the LUT:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_LYKyZDiajcnVmN1M5TmRZbVk/view?usp=sharing

The Marion frame seems a bit too green to me, and the saturation is a bit too high.

kk650 said:

Agree to disagree DrDre.

I can see the blanket yellow tint on the blu-ray clearly and removed all of it. You can’t see it and that’s fine. I’m not going to try to convince you of something you can’t see for yourself.

This is the last thing i’ll be saying on this matter until you create your own release and we can compare the two releases in motion. Then we can discuss further if you wish.

Fine, you don’t need to convince me, as color balance is actually fairly well defined mathematically, as are blanket tints. If you had read the scientific papers on the subject like I have, you might know this. I like to use objective measures for balance, as your eyes can decieve you.

Anyway, agree to disagree. I generally like your work, and I see no reason to start a feud on the basis of a single release.

kk650 said:

DrDre, I have already told you that is what the film looks like with all the blanket yellow tint removed. Remember what I said before about not shooting the messenger? Take up your complaints with Paramount Pictures, the studio that released the blu-ray, i’m an innocent party here.

No, your methodology is flawed (in this instance). When clouds are pink something is amiss. The same scan of the negative was used for the 2011 master, which was created a year before the bluray release. It does not have a blanket yellow tint, magenta tint or any other blanket color cast. I can’t believe you would blame the professionals with a ton more experience than you or I, rather than your own process. Any release that does not have extremely severe color degrading can be balanced, or matched to a balanced release, as I’ve amply demonstrated in the color matching, and color balancing threads.

I’ve watched the release, and the magenta color cast is equally obvious in motion as it is in the frames themselves. It permiates every frame. It’s baffling to me how your “experienced” eye can somehow detect negligeable color differences in my frame, yet be blind to an obvious color balancing issue in your own release. This is the last I will say on the subject, since it is obvious I’m wasting my time here.

Here’s how the earlier frames I posted would look:

Here’s my version of a film like single LUT correction of the bluray:

LUT:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_LYKyZDiajUGl6MDJXbnZ3TDg/view?usp=sharing

One thing that I do hope is, that if an OOT release doesn’t happen in 2020, we will no longer get these unfounded predictions of when it’s certainly going to happen. It’s one thing to speculate based on reliable rumours, but at this rate it’s beginning to become one of those crackpot theories, like those people that predict the end of the world, and keep moving the goalposts when it doesn’t happen (again).

hairy_hen said:

Are you going to leave the bar scene with its home video red tint or revert it to its more neutral film appearance?

At this point it’s just about getting the colors to look appealing, not so much getting to the look of the original release.

Hijack away! Any discussion is appreciated! 😄

Dek Rollins said:

DrDre said:

Dek Rollins said:

These balances look great DrDre!

While the discussion in kk’s thread was going down I had already started making an imperfect test correction of his version inspired by the 35mm colors just to see what I could do with it.

Thanks! For some reason I can’t see the image you posted, sadly.

Weird, it’s still showing up for me. This should work:

Ah, yes, thanks! Looks good, although I would reduce the green a bit.

rockin said:

Is there any way to make the contrast levels more like the DVD? It’s just my opinion, but I think the DVD has a really nice balance.

I will look into it.

Excellent, I will send you the code later today. 😃

Dek Rollins said:

These balances look great DrDre!

While the discussion in kk’s thread was going down I had already started making an imperfect test correction of his version inspired by the 35mm colors just to see what I could do with it.

Thanks! For some reason I can’t see the image you posted, sadly.

I really love how you managed to keep a film like feel, while also keeping the contrast in the ideal range for a home video release. Everything looks just right. 😃

Williarob said:

I think I have access to 64 bit version of Matlab - and a mac version.

You also need the MATLAB compiler. Do you have it?

lansing said:

I ran into a problem with RAM usage exceeding 4G. I was doing a color match on two 7680x3240 montage and the process just killed itself once it exceeded 4G of RAM usage. Can you add a 64 bit version of the program?

Sadly I only have a 32 bit version of MATLAB that is able to compile the software.

^…^ said:

Dre, are you using WOWOW as color reference? I think so, but I would like to have a confirmation.

DVD color grading is different from both WOWOW and BD, and, IIRC, LD has another different grading, too; can’t say the latter is the closest to theatrical one (there is a proper 35mm scan, after all), but, again, IIRC there is at least one LD version taken from release print (first Italian version); sadly, it’s p&s, so I wonder if there is a widescreen version as well (from release print).

I did use a WOWOW frame as a starting point and adjusted it from there, as I generally prefer that color grading to the bluray.