Here’s an attempt at color correcting one of the soldier shots in the Star Wars bluray.
Bluray:
Regarde:
It’s a company in the Netherlands, where I live, but there’s also one in Canada that I found using google.
Okay, I’ve ordered a Raiders laserdisc, and found a company that will transfer it to dvd. So I guess this is really happening.
It’s no longer going to be a 35 mm regrade per se, since I would need a 35 mm print for that, but at least it won’t be revisionist either, like the bluray and to a lesser extend to WOWOW.
Here’s some more evidence that the bar fight scene originally was not red shifted, even in early home video releases. Here’s part of the scene from a vhs rip, that clearly shows no red, but a pretty neutral gray:
Seeing the trailer has convinced me, that Raiders really needs a shot by shot regrading. However, to do this I need a reference. Since there are no prints available, the early laserdisc releases seem like a reasonable starting point, using the WOWOW as the source, since it has the most detail, and the least issues.
The process will be to first match the WOWOW to the laserdisc, and then correct the gamma, and contrast. The first tests indicate the colors will be quite different from both the bluray, and the WOWOW.
Bluray:
WOWOW:
Laserdisc:
WOWOW matched to laserdisc:
WOWOW matched to laserdisc with adjusted gamma and contrast:
I will run a test first creating a video based on a clip I found of the early shots of the 1984 laserdisc, and if that looks good, figure out how to obtain a digital copy of the entire film on laserdisc.
Here’s what seems to be an unfaded re release trailer for Raiders of the Lost Ark:
Good luck poita to you and your little girl!
There is nothing wrong with the 4K scan per say but we don’t know if it is anymore accurate to a 35mm print then the older Blu-ray or DVD(s). The thing is most Blu-rays are mastered from the Negatives or Inter Positives which rarely ever have the same (correct) color timing as a release print. You have to get a hold of a release print to actually see what it should look like which is what Doombot is trying to accomplish. We just don’t know if the 4K in anyway captures the correct look and history has shown us that often Blu-rays don’t look like theatrical prints.
Think about the questions we have asked about Ghostbusters in the past. What is the correct contrast of the sky? Should you be able to see the librarian ghosts eyes and what color are they? With this scan we can answer that.
And even if the Blu-ray was color accurate to a theatrical print, there is still a great aesthetic difference in watching a 35mm theatrical print scan. The grain and contrast create a totally different experience. Remember the way the movie was meant to be seen is on a theatrical print so the special effects and mattes that look bad on the Negative scan blend in beautifully in a release print. Spooky sections might look better with the increased contrast.
Although I agree that preserving 35 mm prints is very much worthwhile, and I believe home video releases should preferably have a color grading that echoes the theatrical experience, I do not completely agree with your last point. A print scan on a small screen does not reflect what is seen on the big screen. The color depth of a home release is much less, so things that in the darkness that can be easily seen in a theatre would disappear into blackness on a small screen. This is why home video color grading does have it’s purpose. So, although it is fun to watch a print scan on the small screen, I would not consider it the ultimate home movie experience.
You ask the question, what’s the correct contrast for the sky in Ghostbusters? I would say until our small screens are able to reflect the color depth of the big screen it is a matter of debate.
Here’s a comparison for another frame.
Bluray:
WOWOW:
Laserdisc:
WOWOW matched to laserdisc (with color matching software):
WOWOW matched to laserdisc colors with WOWOW gamma and contrast (with color matching software):
Here’s what that same comparison looks like if we keep the laserdisc colors, but match the contrast and gamma of the WOWOW.
Bluray:
WOWOW:
Laserdisc:
WOWOW matched to laserdisc colors with WOWOW gamma and contrast (with color matching software):
The opening of the earliest laserdisc release of Raiders of the Lost Ark from 1984 can be seen on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpCSFKF_9as
Although there’s no way to be sure that this release is accurate in terms of color, they did at least have access to unfaded sources, so it’s interesting to compare this release to the more recent high def transfers.
Bluray:
WOWOW:
Laserdisc:
WOWOW matched to laserdisc (with color matching software):
Not sure if anyone else noted this, but while watching the latest preview for the zillionth time, I came to the conclusion there might be a slight pink shift in the latest preview.
Here’s how it looks now:
Here’s how it looks after a white balance:
Here’s a direct comparison:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/149099
It should be noted that, since we are dealing with prints, the white balance should not be done in the RGB color space, since film uses magenta, yellow and cyan as base colors.
Dunedain said:
NeverarGreat said:
DrDre said:
http://oi57.tinypic.com/3486avs.jpg" width=“720” height=“306” />The improvement is a good one 😃 The skin tones, hair, and shirt all look just right.
I’d say this one is still the best overall. It’s gets rid of that carroty redness that’s always a problem for everyone onboard the ship better than any other correction I’ve seen. Restoring a natural fair appearance. Great job. I’d be very interested to see these same settings from this version of the correction used on the Imperial officers we see on the Tantive IV, if you please, DrDre. 😃
Which officers are we talking about?
Commander Daine Jir - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Daine_Jir
and Commander Praji - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nahdonnis_Praji
Thanks very much if you can apply the settings used in the picture I refer to in my previous post on those two officers (using the best possible close-up shots available in the film) at high res. =)
I tested the color correction model on those frames, and it doesn’t look great. The Star Wars bluray really needs a shot by shot regrade.
Turns out the segments from Raiders in the trailer are from the master used for the WOWOW broadcast, which to my surprise does not have as much of a red shift.
Bluray:
WOWOW:
Here’s what I get if I white balance one of the frames I used as a reference.
35 mm:
35 mm (white balanced):
Bluray:
WOWOW:
What to make of this?
Here is the video sample for the bar fight:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_LYKyZDiajYWF1Si00djF4b28/view?usp=sharing
Although it fixes certain issues, there are also some things I’m not happy with. This scene, and perhaps the whole film, should be regraded on a scene by scene basis, preferably using the WOWOW, since that has the most detail. I’ve been thinking, it might be an idea to do the regrading based on the 1984 Laserdisc release of the film, since that’s probably closer to the original theatrical release, but sadly that’s not available in a digital format.
This is really odd. The trailer for the 2013 releases of the Indiana Jones series on individual blurays looks nothing like the bluray as we know it. Most surprisingly, there is no red shift in the bar fight scene…
As I stated previously, while regrading Raiders of the Lost Ark, I realized the bar fight scene has a delibirate red shift in all of the home video releases, and broadcasts, that does not appear to have been present in the original theatrical release. The trailers for the release in 1981, and the re-release in 1983 do not have this red shift, and at least one member on this forum who saw a 35 mm print screening, noted that the red shift is not in the theatrical version of the film. As such, I had to do a separate regrading for this scene.
Here are a number of comparisons for the upcoming bar fight video sample, to be found in the Raiders regrade thread (bluray top, regrade bottom). Considering this rather substantial change to the film’s color timing has not had much attention, I guess this will be the first time, this scene can be seen with it’s original colors.
Here are a number of comparisons for the upcoming bar fight video sample (bluray top, regrade bottom).
Here’s another interpretation of this Star Wars frame inspired by the frame piota posted recently of one of his prints.
Bluray:
kk650:
DrDre:
The video sample for the bar fight should be ready soon.
Beber said:
I don't know. I'm all confused now. I guess I'll just have to wait and see the whole thing in motion.
I will prepare two five minute video samples. One for the bar scene, and one for another scene.
I found a better quality version of the 35 mm trailer from 1983.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFQhhu4sSc0
Here are a few comparisons:
Trailer:
Bluray:
Regrade:
Trailer:
Bluray:
Regrade:
Trailer:
Bluray:
Regrade:
Trailer:
Bluray:
Regrade:
Trailer:
Bluray:
Regrade:
I think these indeed look much better. Consistent with the trailer, and definitely more appealing.
Having directly compared the regrade used to create the latest video to the latest update, I think I may have overdone it with respect to the blues in the latest updates of the regrade, as kk650 noted earlier. The regrade used for the last video sample is close to the 35 mm frames, but also slightly warmer, more balanced, and has more natural skin tones. So, aside from the altered color scheme of the bar fight in the bluray, I think I will go back to the regrade used to create the video.
35 mm:
Bluray:
WOWOW:
Regrade:
35 mm:
Bluray:
WOWOW:
Regrade:
35 mm:
Bluray:
WOWOW:
Regrade:
Beber said:
I agree they are obvious in the bar scene, but the rest... I mean, your 12-minute video preview looked promising, but now I'm not sure what to think about all this.
Seems a bit odd, considering that the current regrade is very similar to the one used to create the last video sample:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/147997/
However, I agree that the slightly warmer tone of the last video sample is more appealing.
Beber said:
The difference is so subtle compared to the Blu-ray that I don't really see the point anymore. Unless you compare the 2 at the same time, you'll see it's a bit different, otherwise, you'll just feel like watching the Blu-ray. Where is your will to match the 35mm in this?
I'm sorry to say this, but the differences in color are pretty obvious, even if you don't compare them directly, but for those that need direct comparisons, here are a few:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/147986/
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/147992/
The 35 mm frames themselves are simply too saturated for viewing on a tv screen. In fact they are too saturated to view on a movie screen.
