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DrDre

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Join date
16-Mar-2015
Last activity
6-Sep-2024
Posts
3,989

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Post
#915975
Topic
Star Wars Trilogy SE bluray color regrade (a WIP)
Time

I think Williarob and towne23 made some very good points. Having seen the color variations between different prints, we should accept we may never know what the colors looked like on the first interpositives. Mike Verta’s grading will probably be the best guess.

Ps. I will be busy moving to our new house, so there will probably be few updates for a few weeks.

Post
#915840
Topic
Star Wars Trilogy SE bluray color regrade (a WIP)
Time

As always I prefer to develop an algorithm to do my corrections for me, since unlike people algorithms are always objective and unbiased by personal taste. So I’ve developed an algorithm, that automatically corrects the 70 mm frames (or any other frames). The algorithm requies no other input, but the uncorrected frame, and automatically estimates the correct colors. Here are my results for the frames darth lucas posted:

Post
#915803
Topic
Star Wars Trilogy SE bluray color regrade (a WIP)
Time

In this case it’s not a problem of the bluray, but an issue of correcting the print. I can match the 70 mm print colors, as is evident from the previous page of this thread. The problem is that the print has a pronounced green shift, that has to be corrected for the regrade. The question is, how much green do you remove? This requires extensive examining of other references, such as the frame you posted. Often something will seem a major improvement, but then while examining more references, the inconsistencies with some of these references become difficult to ignore, and it’s back to the drawing board. The bluray has many issues, and so do the references. Getting a clear picture of how you believe it should look takes time, and a lot of hits and misses.

Post
#915544
Topic
Star Wars Trilogy SE bluray color regrade (a WIP)
Time

What’s interesting is that the latest color grading for the Owen/C-3PO shot is very close to the previous color grading, that I arrived at using a still frame I found on the internet as a reference, using a similar process to correct the Technicolor IB print scans:

Previous color grading:

Latest color grading:

So, I’m confident the current grading is accurate. I think we can put this to bed 😉.

Post
#915538
Topic
Star Wars Trilogy SE bluray color regrade (a WIP)
Time

UnitéD2 said:

Question : why add this LPP step instead of matching the bluray to the 70mm for the first frame ?

The goal was to regrade the Owen/C-3PO frame. The assumption of the method is, that the degradation of the colors of these shots is very similar for the LPP independent of the shot. Therefore, the correction for one shot should still be pretty accurate for another shot, and can therefore be transfered to another shot. Since, the bluray was regraded on a shot by shot basis, the regrade for one shot cannot be transfered to another shot.

Post
#915523
Topic
Star Wars Trilogy SE bluray color regrade (a WIP)
Time

After seeing those 70 mm frames, I went back to the Owen/C-3PO frame, to try to get as close to the original color timing as possible. This also gives me an opportunity to share my color grading process. I don’t have an accurate reference for this shot, since the Technicolor scans have some issues for these scenes. However, I do have the uncorrected preview for reel 1, and consequently this frame for -1’s scan of the Spanish LPP, and another 70 mm reference frame of the same sequence:

70 mm frame:

LPP frame:

I use the 70 mm frame to correct the LPP frame:

Then I take the -1 frame I’m interested in:

I subsequently correct this frame with the color correction model I’ve optimized for the other frame:

Now I can match the bluray to this corrected frame:

Next, I correct the contrast, saturation, brightness, and white balance, resulting in the final color grading:

Given the process I’ve used, I believe it should be pretty accurate.

Post
#915495
Topic
Star Wars Trilogy SE bluray color regrade (a WIP)
Time

From my part I can say my goal is to approach as much as possible what was on the original interpositives. This is why the print scans, and film stills are to me the most reliable color reference, both in terms of color, contrast and brightness, although it should be noted that prints tend to have more contrast and saturation, which I try to take into account. I sometimes look at the JSC, because it was telecined at a time, when the source was still in good condition, and it shows in the colors, but I’m very much aware that capturing the colors with the telecine process is approximate at best. I would never trust the GOUT, because it was made at the time when the source material was in dire straits, which means they had to re-interpret the colors pretty much from scratch. The GOUT obviously has a revisionist 90s grading with it’s very pink skin tones. Of course, there’s always personal interpretation in trying to correct problems in print scans, film stills, etc, so my color grading will always be slightly different from somebody else’s color grading. I try to stay true to the source material, and hope that you guys will continue to call me out on shoddy regrades, such as pittrek and Harmy have done.

Post
#915475
Topic
Star Wars Trilogy SE bluray color regrade (a WIP)
Time

Come to think of it, I think, I agree with darth lucas, that there’s too much green in the print, so I’ve decided to stay close to my original grading for this scene. There’s still some teal in the walls, but not as much, and the overall feel is a bit cooler than on the print, which I think is appropriate for the scene:

Post
#915344
Topic
Star Wars Trilogy SE bluray color regrade (a WIP)
Time

yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

Ah… searching for more pics led to this - http://cdn.moviestillsdb.com/sm/ba5c5aacb00c284692aa349bb8006836/star-wars.jpg

I’d say this is an ideal image for the Tatooine desert/R2-D2/C-3PO colors and the skin tones (though they are hard to see they are reddish and consistent with the blistering temps in Tunesia).

The problem is that the Tatooine desert has a different color depending on location, time of day, and weather conditions, and can range from more yellow, more red and brown. I’ve watched hundreds of production photos, and there’s something unique in all of them.

Ah, well when just looking at the natural color of the desert, don’t forget to check out all the more recent tourist photos of the old locations as well as Episode II (and those production photos). While I too have noticed some variation, the photos that have that distinct yellow tint do not look very natural and the other elements (such as R2) aren’t the right color in a lot of them. They also tend to have washed out or jaundiced skin tones. You need some red to the skin tones, just not as much as the DVD and Blu-ray have.

From what I’ve seen, that yellow color seems to be indicative of the 1977 production stills and can be found in more than just the desert scenes (like the Death Star, Blockade Runner, Cantina) and does not appear in the more modern photos taken in Tunesia. I don’t think that yellow color is reliable or accurate.

The desert can be yellow and accurate imo. Just look at this photo of one of the Star Wars sets from the prequels:

Not that I’ve come across a shot in ANH that has this desert color, but it’s definitely possible.

Post
#915342
Topic
Star Wars Trilogy SE bluray color regrade (a WIP)
Time

Dreamaster said:

Memorex said:

DrDre said:

pittrek said:

The diner scenes look great, the 3PO shot still looks a bit too green.

It needs a bit of fine tuning, but I think this is much better:

Beautiful!

I like this one a lot better than the one you decided was final. It doesn’t have that “green” feeling your final has, especially near the bottom of C3PO and the “yellow” splotches on the sandcrawler. Here those splotches look like a natural part of aged and rusty metal in sand.

I think I will combine both versions, as there are aspects about both, that I like.