This user has been banned.
SilverWook said:
Tobar said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
As I've already said, a simple thing such as painting an actor's face red and giving him orange contacts would have satisfied me.
So then....what's the complaint?
That's they way they all became the Brady Bunch?
Star Trek:The Brady Generation.
Make it happen Paramount!
Bingowings said:
Rule number one...JNT lies.
Rule number two...Hawaiian shirts are cool.
Bingowings said:
Rule number one...JNT lies.
Rule number two...Hawaiian shirts are cool.
Tobar said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
As I've already said, a simple thing such as painting an actor's face red and giving him orange contacts would have satisfied me.
So then....what's the complaint?
You know what JNT said that "Memory Cheats" what he meant was that a lot of the times you only remember the really good parts of movies or Tv shows you saw in the past but I guess this proves it can also work in reverse. Sometimes you can forget just how good something from the past was. At least that is what I am finding as I rewatch TNG for the first time in years.
Warbler said:
generalfrevious said:
The whole franchise is dead, and has been for 20 years (15 if you like DS9). No power on earth can make ST good ever again.
JJ blew it up permanently.
STID was so horrendous it nullified any goodwill the previous film may have had
the above statements are what I meant by exaggeration.
. Star Trek used to mean something to us.
used to? it still does to me. Don't the let JJ render Star Trek meanless to you. If Star Trek means nothing to us, the fans, it will truly die. But as long as we know what Star Trek really is about and what it stands for and that it does mean something to us, it can be saved. It may take a few years, I believe sci fi and Star Trek can be saved. What we need are more visionaries like Roddenbury and what Lucas used to be, to come along.
Now it's just some soulless product to make some rich Viacom CEO even richer.
maybe it is now, it doesn't have to remain this way.
Yeah good point. We all need to remember that.
The third Doctor had a saying I have always liked. "While there is life there's a chance." and I think that applies here and I am sorry I forgot it.
Someone will come along and restore Star Trek at some point. it may not happen today or even in the next five years but as long as one of us remembers what Star Trek is really about at some point it will come back.
TheBoost said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
DrCrowTStarwars said:
What proof do you have that making aliens that didn't look at all human was a choice for TNG. They had to use the makeup people they had and they didn't have an unlimited budget as you admit.
In the end, though, when you get right down to it, I could have lived with the lame rubber forehead aliens if the writers had at least come up with a better explanation for their existence other than the stupid pseudoscientific "ancient rubber forehead aliens seeded the galaxy with DNA designed to evolve into more rubber forehead aliens" crap.
Why need an explanation at all? It is what it is.
Yeah B5 never had to explain why all of their aliens were humans with masks pulled over their heads and Farscape never had to explain why all of their aliens were puppets or people who had escaped from a bondage club,why does TNG have to explain anything and TOS and DS9 had those same aliens so why do they get a pass.
Okay now I am completely done with this because it is insane.
You are still reading Spiderman comics? You are a braver man then I. I gave up after that One More day and civil war garbage.
generalfrevious said:
Warbler said:
generalfrevious said:
The whole franchise is dead, and has been for 20 years (15 if you like DS9). No power on earth can make ST good ever again. JJ blew it up permanently. Does anyone honestly think Chris Pine will be as iconic as Willaim Shatner? STID was so horrendous it nullified any goodwill the previous film may have had. These new films represent everything wrong with our corporation-centric, one percenter, money is speech culture. Like I said, they should wipe these films out of existence; they deserve to be forgotten. Star Trek used to mean something to us. Now it's just some soulless product to make some rich Viacom CEO even richer.
while I didn't think Star Trek Into Darkness was all that great, I think you exaggerate just a bit.
We live in one of the most cynical periods in modern history. Art is being destroyed by hacks like Abrams, and they get praised for ruining franchises. He makes Rick Berman innocent by comparison. Star Trek used to be just more than some silly low budget tv show; it was an optimistic look on humanity exploring the unknown world with others, and finding solutions to problems that did not boil down to punching the bad a hundred times, like in some dumb action movie. I don't think I can exaggerate too much in the death of science fiction as we know it.
Yeah that was my huge problem. That Kirk being completely unlikable,the plot making no sense,and Khan having a cure for death in his blood. How are we supposed to be worried about any of the characters making it when we know that there are almost a hundred people frozen who have a death cure in their blood? They have just destroyed all drama and sense of tension in any future movies.
The big thing for me is that Star Trek is no longer about ideas. When I was a kid I watched the show for it's ideas and culture clashes,now those are all gone and replaced by catchphrases and callbacks. i was able to handle the movies being dumb action movies when the shows were still on the air because you would still get ideas in the shows but now that Star Trek is movies only made by the people who made Transformers Star Trek is dead to me.
As far as I am concerned Star Trek died with DS9. RIP Star Trek:(
Yeah the reason Marvel started it's own studio was because they were sick of the major studios messing up their characters.
Still I have to say I am shocked that the people behind One more Day and Civil War haven't screwed things up just as badly in their own way.
Bingowings said:
DrCrowTStarwars said:
Warbler said:
4 versions of STII? I know of STII, Star Trek Nemesis, and Star Trek Into Darkness. What is the 4th version?
Most people I know count First Contact as a remake of St2 even though it's plot is different. The basic theme of Picard wanting revenge is there(Even though they dealt with that on the series so it should not have been a problem at that point)and they quote from Moby Dick. That is close enough for a lot of people to see it as a repeat.
First Contact is a remake of Aliens, which is a remake of Them!.
I dare you to triple bill this one day and spot the connections, it's fun.
I'll have to try that next time. I have to say I never saw First Contact as a remake of Star Trek 2 myself but I tend to watch the movies with people who are not hardcore trekies. You know the type of people who watch the odd episode and who have seen the movies but can't name episode or tell you where the warp core is. Any way whenever I watch it with them they always say something along the lines of "They are just doing Wrath of Khan again" so I guess it is close enough for most people to count it as a remake.
Yeah and the same limitations applied to TNG. Oh and did you just call for them to use black face to change actor's skin colour? In the 1980s? I think you have gone completely insane and you still can't prove that any of this would have worked on screen or on budget. Again where is your proof? if making aliens that don't look human with out CGI is so easy then you do it. Come back in a week with a complete episode's worth of special effects that use no CGI and look realistic with dozens of extras made up so you can't tell they are human under the make up.
Oh and you blast creationism and anyone who believes in it and then you latter blast the writers for not believe in it and doing so in their script. Show me one creationist that was on the Enterprise in TOS and that is a scripting issue so don't you dare come back with your tired old line about how people were still trying to figure out how fire worked in the 1960s so any problems with the show should be overlooked. The fact is the methods for producing effects didn't change all that much between 1966 and 1987. Computers were put in control of cameras and did the compositing and that is it. It may have been a little faster but it wasn't cheap or fast at that point. Also even the little things like a phaser blast mean hour of manual work and it may blow your mind but the people that did that work cost money and that had to come out of the budget the same budget that hired make up people to apply the stuff to dozens of actors every week. The big change was that people demanded special effects on par with films like Star Wars every week in 87 so that is what they had to focus on. Also they couldn't afford to keep actors in a chair for six days while they made them look 100% non human. Not even films did that. Again if TNG could do this then it should be very easy for you to find proof. Anything from a budget report to make up artists saying that they came to the producers with a method for doing it that they could prove would not blow the budget and being shot down. Where is your proof beyond your personal hatred of everyone who ever worked on TNG?
You seem to be living in a dream world were TNG had an unlimited budget and access to tech that didn't exist yet and you are determined to personally attack and insult every person who worked on the show and everyone who watched it. You have admitted that you know nothing about what was going on behind the scenes meanwhile I have read books and interviews with the people who were there. I will take their word for what was going on over yours.
You are just someone who needs to attack the hard work of others in order to validate your own life when if you were challenged to do that same work you couldn't do nearly as good a job as they did. I am done with you because no amount of facts can ever penetrate pure hate and that is all you are and all you will ever know. You hate everyone and everything because it makes you feel better about yourself. Well I am not stupid enough to spend the rest of my life having this debate with you.
Oh and H.P Lovecraft wrote books,he didn't make weekly TV episodes. It's much easier to describe something that doesn't look human on paper then it is to make it week after week for dozens of extras. The fact that you think there is no more work in creating a make up effect then there is in typing out a story and it doesn't cost a cent more says all there is to say about you and just how far off the deep end you are.
So yes in 1987 you could create CGI aliens who didn't look human at all and looked 100% realistic for $1 a piece just like they did on TOS where there were never any human aliens. The producers of TNG choose not to so they could spend all day doing lines of coke off of strippers. Oh and every script was written by an inbred redneck who's mother and sister were the same person and had no idea how to write a script and they were hired because the producers wanted Star Trek to fail. TNG was the worst thing the human race has ever produced and everyone who worked on it should be burned alive for their crimes against the human race and the one hundred percent perfect show that never put a foot wrong known as Stat Trek.
There I said everything you wanted now I am done with you.
Tobar said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
I'm well aware that TOS used a lot of human aliens. My point, though, is that this can be excused because of budgetary/technological limitations of the time; I see no similar reasons for why most of the aliens on TNG looked the way they did.
...
TNG had the same budgetary and technological restrictions that TOS faced. TNG had a bigger budget but it was by no means unlimited. Creating complicated non-humanoid aliens for one-off episodes weekly was and is highly impractical. CGI was still in its infancy at the time so there was no out there either.
And this is leaving out the almost impossible deadlines they faced for every episode. You can cheat sets quickly but creature effects are something else entirely.
Yes exactly. Tng had limits on it's budget and for the most part wasn't able to use CGI. I would like to see anyone who complains about TNG being lazy produce completely non human looking aliens every week,without CG and without blowing a budget or production time line.
As for the Star Trek 6 episode of TNG that was Unification,it aired a few months before the movie came out and mentioned events from the movie in order to promote it. The whole idea of having Spock on TNG as a tie in came from Paramount not the writers or producers of TNG.
Also i should point out that TNG stopped mentioning TOS all the time in season 3,again the first season Rodenberry didn't have direct control over. If anything it was the new producers not Rodenberry that wanted TOS to be ignored so their work could stand on it's own. They only brought TOS back into the picture when Paramount wanted an episode to tie in with the release of Star Trek 6.
Warbler said:
4 versions of STII? I know of STII, Star Trek Nemesis, and Star Trek Into Darkness. What is the 4th version?
Most people I know count First Contact as a remake of St2 even though it's plot is different. The basic theme of Picard wanting revenge is there(Even though they dealt with that on the series so it should not have been a problem at that point)and they quote from Moby Dick. That is close enough for a lot of people to see it as a repeat.
What proof do you have that making aliens that didn't look at all human was a choice for TNG. They had to use the makeup people they had and they didn't have an unlimited budget as you admit. Oh and at the time it aired TOS was one of the most expensive shows on Tv,so how come they get a pass? They shouldn't,and you keep insisting that TNG was the only show that ever had aliens that looked human,it was not.
Also how did the show that got the best ratings of any Star Trek series and became just as much a part of the pop culture as Star Trek damage Star Trek?
Oh and again go rewatch the episodes you will find tons of debate between the character but in the end Picard was the captain so the crew did what he said because that is how the military or any job with a chain of command works. it seems to me your problem is with the fact that the crew didn't commit mutiny every single week. That may seem dramatic but it's not realistic and it would have gotten old after a while. TNG and TOS were set up to explore SCi-Fi ideas and a lot of that technobabble you complain about has a basis in real science and that was the point of the show a lot of weeks. They would take something that was a theory at the time and expand upon it. If that isn't your cup of tea then that is fine but to call anyone involved lazy or say they were damaging the franchise doesn't make sense to me. If anything those types of stories are harder to write then a bog standard action adventure story. i know because I have tried and you have to do a ton of research and come up with a way to explain it to the average viewer and given the rating TNG got and the fact that it is fondly remembered by so many people I would say everyone involved did their jobs. Oh and I always thought the aliens looked really good,it's only after CGI came around(Something that didn't get into full swing until after the series ended)that I heard anyone complain.
You say TOS should be judged against other shows of it's time well then the same holds true of TNG. The other Sci-Fi shows from the 80s don't hold a candle to it and it had a level of personal conflict that went well beyond what had been present on TOS. Even if it didn't just having people fighting doesn't make a story well written. You seem to think that if you put two characters into a room and they don't instantly pull out knives and try to kill each other then the story is badly written. I don't know what to tell you other then that is not how humans in general and military personal act in real life. Also there are other things you can do with those character and there is nothing wrong with having them debate what the right and wrong thing to do is. Conflict for the sake of conflict is not good writing it is just forced.
All I can say if if the charge is that the characters on TNG were friends and were not plotting each other's deaths at the drop of a hat and they resolved conflicts like adults with words then guilty as charged. I don't think Star trek is the franchise for you. I think maybe you should give the Sci-Fi version of BSG a try,it seems a lot closer to the type of show you would enjoy.
Yeah I am not sure. i would say the last two seasons of Enterprise were okay but it will take a lot to get me into a theater to see another Star Trek movie after Into Darkness. That was Attack of the Clones level bad and I don't plan on getting burned again. I have seen all the Star Trek movies released in my life time in theaters but never again after that,I'll wait for the DvD of any new movies. If they make new movies,that seems up in the air at the moment.
Picard and Riker fought all the timeand those briefing room scenes in every episode would show the crew arguing over what the right thing to do was before Picard put his foot down and made his choice,you know just like Kirk use to do with Spock and McCoy. How many knock down drag out fights and personal problems were there between the crew members on TOS again? Because I don't remember any unless you count Spock getting infected with the spores or Pon Far and that is an outside influence and not an internal conflict. You are cheery picking your examples to make TNG look bad and TOS look good.
For example you are acting like TOS always used aliens that looked like the rock creature for Devil in the Dark when a more typical example of what aliens looked like on the show would be The Apple. While you don't give TNG credit for aliens like the Crystalline Entity or the Sheliak.
This seems very personal for you and you seem to be going out of your way to make unfair personal attacks against the show and the people who worked on it. My guess is that you are one of those stuck in the mud old school TOS fans who sent Patrick Steward death threats for his crime of daring to try and replace Shatner. You need to take a step back and take off the rose tinted glasses and see that TOS was not perfect and TNG did not have an unlimited budget. I don't believe anyone working on TNg was lazy,lazy people don't work 18 hour days and don't completely rewrite scripts that have been sent to them at the last minute because the story isn't working.
I will admit in the third season when Roddenberry stopped controlling the day to day TNG showed a massive improvement in the story and character department,but you seem to be grasping at any reason to hate this show as if it hurt somehow or you think the people behind it are guilty of some kind of crime and should be in jail or death row.
Yeah this week's episode was great,I am not sure why they reran last week's episode.
I think this episode was the perfect follow up to TWS,that movie ended with Shield dead and I was wondering how they would go on but Culson's speech brought it back to life. Seeing Oswald in anything is always fun too.
I am glad they didn't have this become an episode where Ward was just under mind control or under cover. he really is a full blown bad guy and in Bill Paxton I think Marvel has found a villain who in his own way is just as good as Tom Hiddleston is in the movies. The wait for next week's episode is killing me already. I am on the edge of my seat.
SilverWook said:
DrCrowTStarwars said:
Oh yeah that episode is great and I love Worf's line about not talking about why Klingons look different to outsiders.
Oh and mistaking Chekov for Kirk is an all time great moment too.
Actually, they mistake the fellow sitting with Chekov and Scotty for Kirk. The inside joke is that actor was also Shatner's stunt double. ;)
OOOhhhhh,that's right. Can't believe I forgot that.
I'll have to rewatch that episode again,it's been a while since I saw it last.
Snowing yet again.
I am so sick of winter.
My mom always has a good laugh at that guy when she watches Encounter at Farpoint.
Bingowings said:
It's an operating system. You don't have to program anything unless you want to.
Do you have learn how to program to run Windies?
Here is a very easy to follow video about setting up a live USB.
And it's Linux so practically no problems with viruses.
Wow,thanks.
That looks like something I could work with and I wouldn't have to keep hoping Microsoft keeps desktop mode. Thanks a bunch.
Tobar said:
So Marvel has commissioned a series of posters to go along with each of the remaining episodes of the season. This is the first of them and I'm really digging it:
It's a crime that we still don't get theatrical posters of this quality. The collective marketing department of Hollywood needs to get canned.
Oh and don't forget tonight is the big two hour special!
Yeah I miss the days of really great movie posters that were not just photos of a couple of actors. That looks great. it is becoming a menu on my next home made Bluray.
ABC did some posters like this for Castle last year. How come Tv shows are getting these great posters but movies with millions of dollars in their add budgets get cheap crud?
That sounds good but I am always afraid that since I don't know anything about programing computers I would end up screwing things up real bad if I ever tried to use one of those.
I say just pass a federal law making it a crime for tax dollars to fund entertainment then cities can't built arenas with tax payer dollars,problem solved.
I always feel ill when i hear about tax dollars going to one of those things. People who make fifty thousand a year are paying higher taxes so people who make twenty million a year for playing a child's game can have a nicer place to play it in. Meanwhile every school and police department in the country is underfunded. hey you may not be able to add one and two together and you will most likely be mugged on the way home from work but at least the local sports team has a nice place to play!
That's a good use of tax payer dollars.
