For me, Cassian’s moral ambiguity was one of the few things that worked in the first act of the movie, in fact, I would have loved to see it developed further. But I like how you would tone back the excessive fan service. All in all, I can’t wait to see it.
A well conceived crawl. After thinking about it, I agree that the brother/sister angle is unnecessary. I like how evocative ‘war hero Leia Organa’ is, but I would wonder why she seems to have so little power given that everyone we see has a high opinion of her.
Calling Snoke a ‘mysterious leader’ makes it even more apparent that we should learn more about him during the movie, which of course never happens. I feel like going in the other direction and making him simply a power-hungry warlord would be the best option, that way nobody expects a twist that never arrives (unless JJ pulls something in Ep 9).
Other than that, it’s a propulsive and exciting crawl.
Thanks! You are right about Snoke. I feel JJ is going to try to provide some explanation. Having seen the conclusion of Lost, I think it will suck. :\ By the way, I don’t really want to know his backstory. I want to know how he originally tempted Ben while he was training, before Luke first sensed darkness in him. I hope for some Kylo flashbacks about this, rather than some big time Snoke origin reveal.
Here I’ve set it at 75% in the first scene and 35% in the scene that follows, so that it appears that dawn is breaking: https://vimeo.com/239303723
Password: FinnI also mocked up a terminator line on the planet during the TIE escape to continue with the continuity, and found a place where the Apocalypse TIE shot actually makes sense.
This version of events requires Rey and BB-8 at Niima outpost to happen after this section, but I’ve got a version of events that works fairly well, and is more realistic in some ways than the original film:
-Poe arrives on the Finalizer, Finn is accosted by Phasma
-Poe is interrogated
-Rey’s day and finding of BB-8
-The Rescue
-Hux sends the squad to the wreckage
-Apocalypse TIEs
-Hux and Kylo bicker (work in progress)
-Finn awakens/sees Niima outpost
-Rey arrives at Niima with BB-8/Plutt bargains for the droid
-Finn arrives at Niima.This solves the strange editing in the original where Plutt calls for some goons to beat up Rey and then we have to wait for Finn to rescue Poe, get knocked out, come to, run 20 minutes to the TIE, and walk for hours to Niima before the goons find Rey.
I hope you’re still planning to do this resequencing. I may have a suggestion. To indicate the passage of a bit of time between Phasma scolding Finn and Kylo interrogating Poe, how about using an exterior shot of the Finalizer that would otherwise be cut from this edit. It’s the one preceding Kylo’s monologue to Darth Vader’s helmet. Although it would require quite a bit of work to remove SKB from the background.
Episode VII
THE FORCE AWAKENSThe last of the Jedi Knights has
vanished. In his absence, the
NEW REPUBLIC is blind to the
menacing threat emerging from
the remote fringes of the galaxy.A mysterious leader has unified
the remnants of the fallen
Empire under the banner of the
FIRST ORDER and resolved to
build the deadliest weapon the
galaxy has ever seen.The only force standing in their
way is a brave RESISTANCE led
by the war hero Leia Organa.
Desperate for allies, the vigilant
general has dispatched her best
pilot to find traces of last Jedi…I quite like it. Even though I know you followed most of this, here’s a very good and interesting guideline:
Something I wanna include though is my pet peeves on the language of the crawl. ANH and ESB follow all these rules, and RotJ follows most of them. The prequels and the sequels break a lot of them, but since they’re prequels and sequels, they’re not really good examples of what Star Wars is.
Rules:
-There are three paragraphs.
-The first paragraph has one short sentence, and one long sentence. (Broken by RotJ)
-The other two paragraphs are one long sentence each.
-The last paragraph ends in an ellipsis.
-This ellipsis is 4 dotted. (Broken by RotJ)
-The first paragraph gives a general description of the state of the galaxy, the second paragraph gives a more relevant description of the state of the galaxy, and the third paragraph describes the opening scene. (Broken by RotJ, but it doesn’t stray too far)
-Maximum one capitalized phrase in the crawl.
-This capitalized phrase covers important, new information central to the more specific plot of the movie (Broken by RotJ, but again it doesn’t stray too far)
Thank you! To be honest, I wasn’t aware of these rules conciously. Funnily enough, the forum engine auto-corrects my four-dot ellipsis to three dots. 😃
As for the capitalization, I blindly followed the ways of the theatrical crawl. Now that I checked them, TESB, TPM and ROTS don’t seem to have anything capitalized at all. Ironically, if I had to chose one thing to capitalize in this version it would be “LAST JEDI” at the end. Or nothing at all, a la Empire. Or all three, as a small homage to the theatrical crawl.
I wrote one that leaves out Luke’s name and all references to him being Leia’s brother. The sibling reference in the theatrical crawl actually confused a friend of mine who had never seen a Star Wars movie before. She didn’t understand how an Organa, who married a Solo, could be the sister of a Skywalker. 😄 By the way, the sibling relationship is not mentioned in the movie at all.
On the other hand, I have abandoned the “Palpatine’s first order” theme. Instead, this version emphasises the role of the First Order’s “mysterious leader”. First time viewers might think it’s Kylo Ren, as he is the first leader-like figure we see. Then it’s a bit of a twist when they learn it’s actually the Supreme Leader, who is no less mysterious. This mystery won’t amount to much in TLJ, but it might work well within the context of TFA, especially if his name will be cut in this project.
I also avoided describing the SKB’s ability to devour stars. The audience is going to see that anyway. Why not just give them a clue that it’s more devastating than the Death Stars?
Of course, it’s NeverarGreat’s edit so he is going to decide whether he keeps the “Palpatine’s First Order concept” or not, But I LOVE writing crawls and this thread got me thinking. It’s a neat idea that explains the awkward name JJ came up with for this faction and the timeframe of SKB’s construction, but I wonder if it contributes much to the film.
Episode VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS
The last of the Jedi Knights has
vanished. In his absence, the
NEW REPUBLIC is blind to the
menacing threat emerging from
the remote fringes of the galaxy.
A mysterious leader has unified
the remnants of the fallen
Empire under the banner of the
FIRST ORDER and resolved to
build the deadliest weapon the
galaxy has ever seen.
The only force standing in their
way is a brave RESISTANCE led
by the war hero Leia Organa.
Desperate for allies, the vigilant
general has dispatched her best
pilot to find traces of last Jedi…
Just joining in on the fun.
Episode VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS
Luke Skywalker has vanished.
Without the last Jedi, the NEW
REPUBLIC is unaware that the
evil legacy of the long dead
Emperor is emerging from the
remote fringes of the galaxy.
Founded on his FIRST ORDER
long before his fall, a loyal
legion has been working on a
hidden weapon that can devour
entire stars. The sinister army
escaped the fall of the Empire
and plots its return to power.
Only Luke’s sister, Leia Organa
has the foresight to mobilize a
covert RESISTANCE. She has
sent her best pilot to find traces
of her lost brother, now her only
hope for a galaxy in peril…
Since TFA establishes that they discovered the location of the Resistance base and TLJ relies on that, seems better to keep that plot point if at all possible. V1 felt off, and it was in part due to the Resistance just keeping on their attack for seemingly no reason when they ought to retreat. V2’s structure lets the movie stick closer to the theatrical TFA while keeping all the intended gains. I suppose one could make an argument for the ‘revenge’ angle, but I feel it’s more complete the way we did it for V2.
Why WOULDN’T the Resistance keep on attacking? If anything, they would be more motivated to complete their mission after witnessing the destructive power (or at least the immense firepower) of SKB first hand. Why would they retreat from trying to destroy the thing that has just been confirmed to be the biggest threat the galaxy has ever seen? I really don’t think there needs be a justification for this. How would even the Resistance recon even learn in the heat of the battle that the FO is recharging the base?
This is one of the few issues I have with the restructure (which, make no mistake, I absolutely adore). It makes a bold move to remove a major similarity with A New Hope: the imminent danger to the Rebel base from the superweapon that they are currently attacking. And by tying two tragic events beautifully and making the final mission only a partial success, it pulls this ambition off with more than flying colors. Only to return to the very premise it wanted to avoid a few seconds after…
As for the TLJ tie-in, the movie never clarifies how the Resistance had been exposed, just the fact that it was. In fact, I think any potential fan-edit of TLJ would benefit from implying that at least a few weeks had passed between the the two movies, as opposed to mere hours. And that would be helped by removing the line that the FO had followed the Resistance recon ship to the Illenium system.
I would like to see the following lines cut: “Chromedome” and “Dummy!” I feel it’s “Skyguy” territory.
A thing on timelines here: The two main storylines in TLJ start at different times. The escape storyline starts a week after the events of TFA; the Ach-To storyline happens immediately after the events of TFA.
The bomber: People complained about how the bomber thing was unrealistic because there’s no gravity in space. That pedantry is inaccurate. The bombs fell due to the gravitational force of the Star Destroyer underneath the bomber. This is the same reason that Star Destroyer falls into the Death Star in ROTJ.
I read in the visual dictionary that the bombs used magnetic tech as well.
Yes, and that is unnecessary. The artificial gravity within the bomber is enough to give the bombs an initial velocity once they are released to propel them towards the target, as Mrebo already pointed it out.
That’s how real space works, but Star Wars space is special. Star Wars spaceships apparently need to keep their engines/boosters on at all times just like airplanes. If “initial velocity” was a thing in Star Wars then spaceships would only need engines for accelerating and turning. Maybe there’s some kind of air in Star Wars space that creates resistance. The force is supposedly all around, so maybe even the vacuum of space is filled with midichlorians, eh? 😉
And we have to assume that initial velocity isn’t a thing or some plot holes would pop up. If the bombs didn’t use magnetism and could rely on initial velocity then the bombers could be much further away to reduce risk of being attacked. And ships wouldn’t have to worry as much about fuel which is a big plot point in TLJ. In a space chase in zero gravity and zero resistance it would still be beneficial to keep the engines running, but this would lead to constantly increasing speeds which doesn’t seem to be what’s happening.
Midichlorian “air” resistance is going to be my head canon now (“that’s not how the force works!”), but it’s probably best to not worry too much about Star Wars physics.
It’s true, but then again, I originally came up with the initial velocity defense to defend the film when arguing with colleagues who nitpicked the whole bombing scene. I didn’t really think through the ramifications it would have. Anyway, the midichlorian space resistance theory is really elegant one. 😃
I don’t see how the beam could enter hyperspace partway through. The speed of the beam should come from how fast it is pushed out from the weapon, unlike a ship which propels itself forward and can enter hyperspace using its hyperdrive.
I agree, it is a stretch. A big one. But I don’t see any other way to reconcile two things: 1, the plasma beam being fired from SKB and hitting the targeted planets visibly and clearly at a sublight speed and 2, it travelling across the galaxy almost instantaneously. In my head, SBK has some sort of tunelling device that creates a hyperspace wormhole, the “entrance” of which is near the origin and the “exit” near the destination.
I think if it was the SKB itself creating a lightspeed tunnel or wormhole that the beam enters and exits, this is a lot more believable. Also if the SKB has the capacity to compress an entire star into itself / its “modulating capacitors” (or whatever the explanation was again for being able to do this), you could say the SKB has the capacity to also use this energy in a further compressed form to generate a small black hole like wormhole out front of it that links to just outside of the destination they want to fire on, providing the means for the energy beam to pass through within the time shown in the original movie.
The fact that the star itself does not have enough mass to form a black hole yet the SKB can suck it in from that distance and compress it that much speaks to the power of SKB and its potential for other uses of that power.
Val
I like this explanation also.
A thing on timelines here: The two main storylines in TLJ start at different times. The escape storyline starts a week after the events of TFA; the Ach-To storyline happens immediately after the events of TFA.
The bomber: People complained about how the bomber thing was unrealistic because there’s no gravity in space. That pedantry is inaccurate. The bombs fell due to the gravitational force of the Star Destroyer underneath the bomber. This is the same reason that Star Destroyer falls into the Death Star in ROTJ.
I read in the visual dictionary that the bombs used magnetic tech as well.
Yes, and that is unnecessary. The artificial gravity within the bomber is enough to give the bombs an initial velocity once they are released to propel them towards the target, as Mrebo already pointed it out.
He wasn’t justifying, he’s just showing that he didn’t invent it for those who were criticizing him for taking force powers out of his ass.
So he wasn’t justifying, he was showing evidence to prove his detractors were wrong about one of his decisions. Got it.
If Rian Johnson can use a non canon book to justify an aspect of the Force in the movie, I feel I can use the official canon definition of hyperspace to defend (as opposed to nitpick) a much criticized scene.
http://www.astronomy.com/news/2017/07/tiny-new-star
Interesting tidbit:
It’s an ultracool M-dwarf star, slightly bigger than Saturn, so if we assume that Starkiller Base is about the same size as Earth, that would bring this into the realm of the comprehensible:
Very interesting! The diversity of stars in the universe is breathtaking, from this one to the uncombrehensible hypergiants.
By the color of the star Starkiller Base is draining, and how it appears in the sky from the planet’s surface, I always assumed it was a yellow, type G main sequence star. However, it could be argued that it’s an orange or red dwarf, and SKB is orbiting relatively close to it.
Now that I think about it, it’s also peculiar that once the star is half way drained, it appears even whiter than originally. Shouldn’t it get redder as it’s losing mass and heat…?
I like it!
Has anybody mentioned removing the opera singer? Because that’s seriously my only issue with the movie.
That’s probably the only gag that I would cut.
Well that and the BB-ST.
This!
If hyperspace is a fifth dimension, why would Han to worry about flying into a star are too close to a supernova?
This is why official canon is dumb. Just go by what you see on the screen.
Well, for what it’s worth, Starwars.com provides this explanation:
“Hyperdrives allow starships to travel faster than the speed of light, crossing space through the alternate dimension of hyperspace. Large objects in normal space cast “mass shadows” in hyperspace, so hyperspace jumps must be precisely calculated to avoid collisions.”
I’m new an I admit I haven’t read all 109 pages of this thread. So apologies if this was already said/discussed. But I have three points about things that don’t make sense in The Last Jedi.
Surviving for a minute or two in vacuum doesn’t require any Force powers, most humans are capable of it, however, with serious physical injuries. Pulling yourself towards an object in zero gravity and vacuum requires a very, very, very small amount of Force use, probably a lot less than pulling a lightsaber out of the snow.
Spaceships in Star Wars have artificial gravity. If I drop an object within a spacehip, say, a cluster of bombs, it will fall towards the bottom of the spaceship. If it falls out of the spaceship, it will already have an initial velocity that will continue to propel it along its trajectory (albeit without any acceleration).
Spaceships in hyperspace, at least according to Wookiepedia/Canon, are in another dimension. Supposedly, they cannot interact with objects in “realspace”. However, there is a second or so when they are transitioning from realspace to hyperspace. During this transition, we see elongated stars aboard the spaceships, and the elongated image of the spaceship accelerating suddenly from outside the vessel. Maybe, if you can calculate the exact time and realspace distance required for this transition, you can turn your spaceship into a devastating weapon that smashes into its target at the end of this transition period, when at least a part of it is still in realspace, but is already accelerated to relativistic speeds. However, this is difficult to weaponize, because you have to get relatively close to your target and be very exact in your calculations.
I hope there will be a fan edit that cuts some of the excessive humor, but not all of it.
One that needs to go in my opinion is BB8’s AT-ST antics. How did it get in the cockpit?! That one needs to go, and so does Chewie’s porg eating scene.
I also also think Snoke’s death scene would work better if we didn’t see Luke’s lightsaber BEING turned, just that it WAS turned right after Snoke is impaled.
I find it difficult to accept that such a huge chunk of the galaxy would be completely unknown for the Empire, or anyone in the galaxy, for that matter. Even if every particular system was not charted in that region, they should have a rough outline from scans, telescopes etc.
For me, two tweaks would alleviate the map issue.
R2’s map would be a roughly COMPLETE MAP of the galaxy with no “hole” in it. The region highlighted in BB8’s map bit would provide greater detail in that specific region, including the final section of the orange “route” to Luke, but the surrounding area wouldn’t be completely blank.
C-3PO’s line, “it matches no charted system on record” is modified to “it matches no charted systems on record”, because the obtained map clearly shows a multitude of star systems, in fact, a whole region of the galaxy, not just a single one.
In my head canon, the orange “route” is a map compiled from Luke’s rumored or reported locations and/or the known locations of notable Jedi sites, and that is the “map”, not just the location of a specific star system in the galaxy.
Looking at the star draining shot again, it appears that Starkiller is actually behind the star based on how much of it is in the light. This would mean that it would have to be extremely small indeed, compared to the star.
I think it would be possible to move the planet, but even if that’s not feasible, it should be a simple matter to shrink the planet so that it would be a believable distance from the star.
Both versions would work in my opinion. Great mockups!
To make the Falcon exiting Hyperspace I blended two shots where the Falcon was in a similar position in each, so the best bet would probably be to find a shot of something else going through hyperspace at a similar angle and replace the ship with the beam. If the camera movement was similar enough in both shots, it might work.
I sensed that finding suitable hyperspace footage of other stuff would be the key here. Could it be alleviated by slightly tilting the plasma beam shot in either direction?
I actually considered having the beam travel through Hyperspace in this shot, after deleting the Star Destroyer, but I don’t know of an easy way this could be done.
To make the Falcon exiting Hyperspace I blended two shots where the Falcon was in a similar position in each, so the best bet would probably be to find a shot of something else going through hyperspace at a similar angle and replace the ship with the beam. If the camera movement was similar enough in both shots, it might work.
Reassuring to know that this idea occured to someone else, too!
Theatrical TFA suggests that the FO didn’t wormhole the laser’s way there, since you can see its trail in the sky.
True enough, but I banished that from my head canon during my very first viewing. I used to close my eyes during the Takodana skygazing shots until I found this fantastic version of the film. Alan Dean Foster did his best to come up with suitable technobabble to explain that sequence in the novelization, but it’s still embarassing. JJ Abrams has a great sense for fun and adventure, but can be really patronizing to his audiences…
I don’t see how the beam could enter hyperspace partway through. The speed of the beam should come from how fast it is pushed out from the weapon, unlike a ship which propels itself forward and can enter hyperspace using its hyperdrive.
I agree, it is a stretch. A big one. But I don’t see any other way to reconcile two things: 1, the plasma beam being fired from SKB and hitting the targeted planets visibly and clearly at a sublight speed and 2, it travelling across the galaxy almost instantaneously. In my head, SBK has some sort of tunelling device that creates a hyperspace wormhole, the “entrance” of which is near the origin and the “exit” near the destination.
In my head canon, objects in “lightspeed” are in a different dimenson. Whether they travel in a straight line or not, I have not given it much thought. (Yet.😃) In this particular case, SKB fires the plasma beam in real space. Some distance away from the station, it enters hyperspace and travels to the destinaton sytem. Upon reaching it, it exists hyperspace and hits the targeted objects in normal space again. The beam is visible in the first and final stage, but not visible when it is travelling in hyperspace.
In the film, there is a panning shot where the beam is coming from the right side then flies past Kylo’s ship and continues to the left. (As far as I remember, this shot is already altered in the Restructure, as the the Star Destroyer is deleted.) In my mind, this would be the altered shot. We would begin to see elongated stars when the beam is coming towards the camera, and the transition to the cloudy blue tunnel would be completed by the time the camera turns and the beam is moving away to the left. (The beam’s exit from hyperspace doesn’t have to be shown.)
