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DominicCobb

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16-Aug-2011
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20-Jun-2025
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Post
#1263840
Topic
Best Explanation Of Mary Sue Issue
Time

Valheru_84 said:

Generally trying not to reply to you Dom as most of the time what you say is so at odds with how I see, interpret or understand something that it’s not worth trying to discuss it with you as it will only result in an argument that goes no where.

In this case I actually have no idea what you’re on about to start with.

Val

Fair enough and there have been many posts of yours I’ve made a point to just ignore (read: basically all of them).

What I’m on about is your lack of self awareness in that post was frankly hilarious. Don’t mind me.

Post
#1263831
Topic
Best Explanation Of Mary Sue Issue
Time

Valheru_84 said:

Voss Caltrez said:
Good point.
Also, the character of Ripley could also be accused of “pushing an agenda” since the lone voice of reason is a woman, arguing against a majority of stupid men.

Mocata said:
Yes, also to further the subtext that she is the mother and they are children.

The difference being in the case of Ripley is that the male characters aren’t shown as normal male characters that are dumbed down to make her stand out. Instead there are some actually dumb ones (that are essentially stereotyped grease monkeys) and there are smart and capable ones that work alongside Ripley in Alien to operate the mining vessel and later attempt to contain the alien. There’s a range of character strengths on display and her’s is just logically shown to be one of the strongest and most resourceful (and lucky at times) which earns her the right to be a strong female character amongst strong male characters. This is how gender equality is achieved - through the lack of inequality, not male characters purposefully written to bolster poorly written female characters and in doing so, making it clear an agenda is being pushed through the movie which can very easily take you out of it.

I think in Aliens it definitely can be seen more as a lone woman arguing against a sea of men that don’t try to understand and take advantage of her. Looking retrospectively at it in that light you can definitely see a topic of gender inequality being pushed in the movie, however in simply absorbing the movie as it rolls on this isn’t apparent, instead just seeming as if the men are the usual big company or military stereotypes that you wouldn’t expect to really give much credence to a lone civilian whether they are female or male.

And it that lays the example of how to do it right. The political issue is left to be discovered afterwards by means of critical analysis and introspection rather than the movie breaking the 4th wall to tell you directly about animal rights, capitalism and gender inequality as TLJ does and is so on the nose about it.

Val

Fucking wow man. Good job being the poster child for “I liked this movie as a kid and dislike this other movie as an adult so it’s impossible for me to see how they are in anyway similar even when those similarities are glaringly obvious.”

Also, of all the ridiculousness here, I just have to say… Aliens not anti-capitalism? Hahahahahahahahaha

Post
#1263683
Topic
Best Explanation Of Mary Sue Issue
Time

NeverarGreat said:

RogueLeader said:

Man, I really don’t like Thor Skywalker. All of his stuff is very clickbaity. He speaks with this same tone in all of his videos, as if each sentence is some deep point he is making. It’s really manipulative, and makes people feel like they agree with what he’s saying without even thinking about it. But I guess that describes most clickbaity Star Wars YouTubers.

EDIT: And personally it seems a lot of female fans like Rey, and it gets kind of tiring hearing the perspective of male fans (or the one or two female YouTubers who have a large male audience). That’s personally why I like the Reylo community a lot. At least they actually have fun watching these movies, and their conversations are generally positive.

I generally appreciate the points Thor makes, though not the affected gravitas. However, I think there are far worse offenders in that category (Nerdwriter, I’m looking at you).

However, your point about the Reylo community got me thinking…most of the male critics of Rey like to point out how egalitarian they are by offering up Strong Female Leads, and they’re invariably Ripley/Sarah Connor/Furiosa/etc, in other words action heroines. They then compare Rey to these examples to show how easy her victories seem in comparison to these legendary badasses.

But maybe they have made the mistake of assuming that the Star Wars ST falls under the action genre, when the reality is that the ST could simply be a different genre altogether.

In a drama, especially a romantic drama, the female lead is rarely beset by physical obstacles, but rather mental/emotional ones. The most defining flaw of Rey’s character is a desire for belonging against the growing feeling that her every relationship is doomed. Rey would not be out of place as the lead in a drama, but since Star Wars has such a strong aspect of action there is also the expectation for Rey to be an action heroine and conform to the rules and limitations implied in its previous installments.

That’s where the disconnect seems to be - the Reylo crowd reads the ST as a (romantic) drama, while the ‘""""“True”""""""’ Star Wars fans read the ST as an action movie and a strict continuation of everything in the first six Star Wars installments.

That’s an interesting way to look at it. It certainly goes with what I’ve been trying to say here about her character, though I never looked at it from that framework. I think the idea that those looking for SW to follow a “action movie” model were likely very displeased with TLJ especially, and far from just because of Rey’s story. Not something I considered but definitely helps to explain some of the negative reaction. (re: RogueLeader and “the Heroine’s Journey,” I actually think I read an article or blog post on this very subject in relation to Rey, will have to see if I can dig it up.)

I think it’s a danger when you try to pigeon-hold Star Wars into the trappings of any genre when it’s been busting conventions since its invention. Even just looking at what you said, it’d be very easy to make the wrong assumptions, i.e. romance is the “right” way to look at Rey and the ST. With the Reylo camp especially the conclusion could prove very upsetting if you’re married too closely to a specific train of thought on where the story is “supposed” to go.

Post
#1263681
Topic
Best Explanation Of Mary Sue Issue
Time

joefavs said:

RogueLeader said:

At least they actually have fun watching these movies, and their conversations are generally positive.

This. When your relationship with Star Wars consists largely of railing against Star Wars, you’re doing Star Wars wrong.

Amen man. There are many films I’ve seen that I’ve strongly disliked or hated, some within franchises I love. But I usually just say “it sucked” and move on with my life. I can’t imagine expending the amount of energy some people do hating on things. If for no other reason than when something disappoints me, I try not to think about! But there’s a weird mentality these days were if someone hates something and sees someone else liking it, they have to yell at them. I don’t get it (though I won’t pretend I’m immune to the same impulses even if I consciously try to avoid them). When it comes to being something like Star Wars, if you spend half your time talking about what you hate about it, I have to wonder if you’re really a fan at all. Not that you can’t hate things about it, but if you consider yourself a fan, why aren’t you talking more about what you like?

Post
#1263680
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

I’ve had similar thoughts about Jakku as you. It’s conceived as a junk planet but comes across basically as just a desert planet. Now, I don’t really have much of an issue with it, as I think the desolate landscape adds scope and heightens Rey’s isolation (and scavenging skills). Your suggested ideas are cool, but ultimately I fear they are probably hard to implement and ultimately not worth it. I feel like a potentially simpler “fix” for Jakku would be to recolor the sand to something more junky, like grey or brown.

With the others, again it’s not really something that bothers me, but the ideas are cool and could work well.

Post
#1263471
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Anakin Starkiller said:

As it stands, the Sequels seem to go out of their way to ignore the Prequels, aside from two instances, one per film. Any ideas for how they could be more overtly acknowledged? Maybe some Prequel species (or even Original species; we’re lacking on all fronts for returning species), ships, or planets could be integrated?

Well, first off, there’s more than two. Second, if you want to start inserting PT stuff elsewhere, you should start with the OT, where timeline-wise it’s more relevant.

Post
#1263302
Topic
Thoughts on Star Wars Posters
Time

Most of the contemporary OT posters are fantastic and some of my all time favorites. The SE posters are crap and some of Struzan’s worst. Whereas his prequel posters are actually some of his best (I agree that AOTC is probably at the top too).

The TLJ posters are pretty much uniformly excellent and I’m not sure I can think of one I didn’t like. On the other hand, I’m not sure I can think of a single official TFA poster I genuinely liked.

Rogue One’s were pretty much fine, and I really dug everything I saw for Solo.

Here’s hoping we get some good stuff for IX.

Post
#1261428
Topic
Last movie seen
Time

Dirty Rotten Scoundrels (1988) - A very enjoyable watch. You can see the ending coming a mile away, but that doesn’t make it any less satisfying. B

The Trial (1962) - Very exciting from an intellectual and technical perspective (not as exciting from other perspectives). B

Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse (2018) - This is approximately the billionth comic book movie and the millionth Spider-Man movie, yet somehow it manages to give the impression that it’s the first and only - in other words, like nothing you’ve seen before. I’ve already seen it 3 times. A

Paper Moon (1973) - An entirely agreeable film, never depressing, never shmaltzy. Just fun and human. A-

Wizards (1977) - This is a real mess - and there’s a lot about that I appreciate and a lot that just kinda baffles me. C+

There’s Something About Mary (1998) - There’s definitely something charming about the very specific bonkers perspective on reality this presents, but otherwise it’s not amazing. C+

Mandy (2018) - Visually and aurally hypnotic in a way most films can only dream of. Ultimately more style than substance, but who gives a fuck if you’re into this kinda vibe. B

Crazy Rich Asians (2018) - Smarter than your average ‘rom-com,’ though not quite as funny as the best. A film that takes its “crazy” self and its (asian) characters seriously, even if it doesn’t completely interrogate the “rich” aspect fully. B

Shirkers (2018) - It’s always a sign of a good film when your biggest complaint is that you wanted more. And yet here I really do - I want to know more about this failed film, about these people, about their Singapore, about what happens next - but I’d suppose Sandi Tan feels the same way. There’s always things about life and ourselves and our experiences that we’ll never fully understand. Shirkers nicely captures that feeling in a little film canister. B+

Love Actually (2003) - Actually sucks. C

The Rider (2018) - A film with some gut wrenching emotional content that really sneaks up on you. A stark yet empathetic account of mortality and obsolescence. So, you know, fun stuff. B+

Bumblebee (2018) - Has a couple moments where it slips into the typical rockem’ sockem’ stuff, but otherwise it almost goes without saying at this point that this is easily the best Transformers film and probably the only one that won’t give you a migraine. The bargain bin Spielberg stuff is an effort I much appreciate, even if it often plays as trying hard to be such. Pleasant and very watchable. B

Won’t You Be My Neighbor (2018) - Feels a bit too much like Mr. Rogers greatest hits / a filmized summary of his Wikipedia page, but it’s still a decently made one at that that gets to show off a lot of what made the guy so adored. B-

Post
#1260720
Topic
Thoughts on Star Wars Titles
Time

OutboundFlight said:

The Last Jedi
This title is memorable, but like ROTJ I don’t think it represents the film. Luke is only one part, not the driving focus (if say the Resistance were praying for Luke’s help, it might have worked).

They weren’t? News to me.

But at the very end, Luke says he will not be the Last Jedi. This is really annoying to me. And I get it. Subversion of expectations! But a title is more or less a promise that something will happen.

That’s an oddly stringent way of looking at it. The title is about the idea of Luke being the last Jedi, and whether he will fulfill that title or not. Not to mention, he’s referred to by that title twice in TFA, and it’s not an inaccurate descriptor of him in TLJ itself - looking at it another way, he’s “the last Jedi” left, or worded differently “the last” of the “Jedi.” So really the title is a question (not a promise), saying “he’s the last Jedi now, will he be the last Jedi forever?”

Otherwise I agree with your rundown (except for maybe TPM).

Post
#1260549
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Hard to argue that fan regard for TLJ won’t improve over time. To what extent is obviously up for debate. But a lot* of the complaints from fans have to do with expectations not matched or disliking how preexisting characters were used. As the years go on, and the younger fanbase (who don’t have the baggage of years of expectations) grows up and becomes a larger percentage of the whole, TLJ will certainly improve in standing. The same exact thing happened with the prequels (even as the critical appraisal seemed to go in the opposite direction).

*If you’re thinking of responding to this saying “but not all of the complaints,” how about just don’t respond instead. That’s not what I’m talking about and I’m very tired of that kind of bullshit at this point.

It’s actually pretty easy to argue, that fan regard won’t necessarily improve over time. You more or less regard the very negative opinions as outliers that will in future get less weight in the overall assessment of TLJ, but you totally disregard the positive outliers with extreme praise, that also stem from mostly older fans, who were pleased the ST distanced itself from the PT in both visuals and style.

I’m not talking about outliers. What are the extremes have nothing to do with my point. Obviously a significant portion of the fanbase disliked the film (and a significant portion liked it). What’s the majority and what’s the minority doesn’t matter. I just think it’s hard to argue that, in the future, there won’t undoubtedly be more and more fans who fall into the “like” column, as many of the reasons for the dislike fade away.

Additionally you disregard the effect episode IX will have on the overall assessment of the trilogy including TLJ. ROTS is largely lumped in with the other prequels, despite the fact that it was actually positively recieved, because the entire trilogy was mostly seen as a disappointment. It is quite possible episode IX will please neither fans or critics of TLJ, and so the entire trilogy may end up being regarded as pretty mediocre, and a missed opportunity. Anything is possible at this point. TLJ may improve in standing, or it may not.

You’re absolutely right that IX will affect the overall assessment of the trilogy. But again, with the prequels, you ignore my point, which is that there seems to be far more PT fans now than before, whether or not some other fans regard the whole trilogy as a disappointment or not.

Post
#1260527
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Smithers said:

I’m having trouble understanding the arguments to hide Anakin’s turn to preserve the twists, I think I’m missing something. My pint was to preserve the whole point of the PT, which is to show Anakin’s fall to the dark side, but the point was to hide the fact that anakin has any relation to Luke. In ANH, Obi-Wan talks about how darth vader was a pupil of his that turned to evil, so the audience (given the footage available) WOULD immediately know that anakin and darth vader are one in the same, but the audience doesn’t necessarily know that darth vader and luke’s father are one in the same. What we know from ANH is that luke’s father was a jedi and that darth vader killed him, so all we have to do is imply that Luke’s father died during the 20 year long jedi purge at the hands of vader. Am I missing something?

The problem is that no matter which way you cut it, it doesn’t totally work. Your solution on paper sounds like the best, but even if you cut out Anakin’s Skywalker name, there are a few too many hints - Padme’s pregnancy, Anakin’s being from Tatooine, the whole Lars homestead, and Anakin’s lightsaber (possibly the biggest one you can’t get around).

Post
#1260525
Topic
Thoughts on Star Wars Titles
Time

pleasehello said:

ray_afraid said:

I think The Empire Strikes Back is a good title, especially for a sequel, but I really don’t like any of the titles very much.

The more I think about The Empire Strikes Back as a film title, the sillier it sounds. People tout Empire as a darker, more serious film (which it is), but it may have the goofiest, most pulpy title of any SW film.

But ESB as a film is also pretty pulpy and goofy (though admittedly not the most so in the saga). Attack of the Clones is easily the silliest title though (and silliest film for that matter, though for mostly different reasons).

That said, it’s sufficiently vague which seems like something you’d want in a film title. Something like The First Order Makes Chase apart from being kind of boring, is far too literal. The goal shouldn’t be to summarize the plot in the film’s title, but rather to create intrigue. Viewed through this lens, The Last Jedi kind of works perfectly, begging the question “Who is the last Jedi?”

The Last Jedi is pretty much the best title you could come up with for that movie. Really the only issue is that it breaks quite a few of the traditional SW naming conventions (at least three by my count).

Post
#1260520
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Hard to argue that fan regard for TLJ won’t improve over time. To what extent is obviously up for debate. But a lot* of the complaints from fans have to do with expectations not matched or disliking how preexisting characters were used. As the years go on, and the younger fanbase (who don’t have the baggage of years of expectations) grows up and becomes a larger percentage of the whole, TLJ will certainly improve in standing. The same exact thing happened with the prequels (even as the critical appraisal seemed to go in the opposite direction).

*If you’re thinking of responding to this saying “but not all of the complaints,” how about just don’t respond instead. That’s not what I’m talking about and I’m very tired of that kind of bullshit at this point.