DominicCobb

Mocata said:

I’d have thought that the music written was always more than they need, the way there’s extra music for Hoth or parts of Leia’s theme.

That’s not usually how it’s done. Recording music costs time and money so they don’t really want to be making things they aren’t going to use - just like deleted scenes aren’t shot with the purpose of being cut. It depends on the composer but with Williams on Star Wars, he’s scoring directly to the edited picture, in places he and the director have decided should have a score.

Where you might be getting confused is something like the Princess Leia theme suite - that’s a piece that was written and recorded parallel to the film’s score itself and was never intended to be used in the film (and, indeed, that recording has never been used in a SW) but was included on the soundtrack album. Composers often write concert suites for themes from their films and include them as pieces on albums, and/or perform them at concerts.

Newest rumors: https://www.fanthatracks.com/news/film-music-tv/rumour-ewan-mcgregor-to-direct-episodes-of-live-action-obi-wan-kenobi-tv-series/

JEDIT: Deadline seems to be corroborating to some extent… https://deadline.com/2019/08/ewan-mcgregor-obi-wan-kenobi-disney-plus-star-wars-1202669319

Perhaps a D23 announcement?

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Huh I guess Star Wars really is dead and TLJ killed it. Good job, you proved it. Haha

Nope, Star Wars is in decline, and I’ve said nothing about TLJ being the cause, just that Disney’s strategy hasn’t worked, which is a reasonable conclusion, if the objective is growth, a conclusion supported by the recent analysis of bloomberg:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-07/star-wars-is-struggling-to-win-over-the-marvel-generation

What then would you say is Disney’s strategy that has been so disastrous?

Out with the old, in with the new. The Galaxy Edge theme park is the best evidence, that Disney gambled on the strength of the new canon. In the process they alienated a subsection of the previous generations of fans, whilst not being able to win over the new generation. They essentially rebooted the franchise with characters that aren’t as compelling, and so people lose interest.

See, that seems like an odd deduction to me. Honestly, if anything Disney has been focusing too much on the old canon, to the detriment of the new. 90% of merchandise, tie-in books, etc. seem to be OT related.

And I can’t imagine anyone who decided not to go to Galaxy’s Edge simply because it focuses on the new canon - general fans wouldn’t even necessarily know that’s the case and more hardcore fans wouldn’t care. I think there are a lot of other factors at play with the park, namely blocking out pass holders, raised ticket prices, and the fact that they still haven’t opened the second ride (the reason I haven’t been yet, and I obviously am a fan of the new canon). Worth noting too that the extent to which the park is “new canon” is only the characters who walk around the land. The planet that’s the setting of the park isn’t from any of the movies and the ride that’s open now doesn’t feature characters from any of the movies either (perhaps, if anything, this is evidence of a different problem).

They have focussed too much on the old canon in a way, but they also killed off much of the old characters in the service of a story, that can be considered a modern take on the OT. The objective thus seems to be less about building on what came before, and more about replacing it with Disney canon.

They killed off two old characters. One, they were lucky to get to use at all. The other was destined to die because that’s how this series works (the mentor passes the torch to the next generation), but is able to stick around anyway due to ghost powers. I’m not sure I understand this specific complaint.

JEDIT: Oh, I guess they killed Ackbar too. Really razing the old canon with that death.

Two out of the big three are dead, and this trilogy isn’t done yet. A lot of people expected Luke to die in the final installment. R2-D2 has been replaced by BB-8, C-3PO has been sidelined.

I’m not sure why anyone would have expected this trilogy to be about the old big three. That’s not really how this series rolls, nor would it have been practical considering their advancing age (a statement that’s making me sad now that I think of it - moment of silence for Carrie). R2 and 3PO have been sidelined since 2002 and 1999 respectively. No one goes to these movies to see them. And people seem to love BB-8 just as much them, so I’m not sure that “replacing” really backfired in anyway.

I will agree to the extent that if TROS underperforms, probably the main reason will be lack of Han Solo and Luke Skywalker, but I think that says more about how those two characters boosted the performance of TFA and TLJ. Truthfully, Disney’s lucky it got to play with the old characters at all.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Huh I guess Star Wars really is dead and TLJ killed it. Good job, you proved it. Haha

Nope, Star Wars is in decline, and I’ve said nothing about TLJ being the cause, just that Disney’s strategy hasn’t worked, which is a reasonable conclusion, if the objective is growth, a conclusion supported by the recent analysis of bloomberg:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-07/star-wars-is-struggling-to-win-over-the-marvel-generation

What then would you say is Disney’s strategy that has been so disastrous?

Out with the old, in with the new. The Galaxy Edge theme park is the best evidence, that Disney gambled on the strength of the new canon. In the process they alienated a subsection of the previous generations of fans, whilst not being able to win over the new generation. They essentially rebooted the franchise with characters that aren’t as compelling, and so people lose interest.

See, that seems like an odd deduction to me. Honestly, if anything Disney has been focusing too much on the old canon, to the detriment of the new. 90% of merchandise, tie-in books, etc. seem to be OT related.

And I can’t imagine anyone who decided not to go to Galaxy’s Edge simply because it focuses on the new canon - general fans wouldn’t even necessarily know that’s the case and more hardcore fans wouldn’t care. I think there are a lot of other factors at play with the park, namely blocking out pass holders, raised ticket prices, and the fact that they still haven’t opened the second ride (the reason I haven’t been yet, and I obviously am a fan of the new canon). Worth noting too that the extent to which the park is “new canon” is only the characters who walk around the land. The planet that’s the setting of the park isn’t from any of the movies and the ride that’s open now doesn’t feature characters from any of the movies either (perhaps, if anything, this is evidence of a different problem).

They have focussed too much on the old canon in a way, but they also killed off much of the old characters in the service of a story, that can be considered a modern take on the OT. The objective thus seems to be less about building on what came before, and more about replacing it with Disney canon.

They killed off two old characters. One, they were lucky to get to use at all. The other was destined to die because that’s how this series works (the mentor passes the torch to the next generation), but is able to stick around anyway due to ghost powers. I’m not sure I understand this specific complaint.

JEDIT: Oh, I guess they killed Ackbar too. Really razing the old canon with that death.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Huh I guess Star Wars really is dead and TLJ killed it. Good job, you proved it. Haha

Nope, Star Wars is in decline, and I’ve said nothing about TLJ being the cause, just that Disney’s strategy hasn’t worked, which is a reasonable conclusion, if the objective is growth, a conclusion supported by the recent analysis of bloomberg:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-07/star-wars-is-struggling-to-win-over-the-marvel-generation

What then would you say is Disney’s strategy that has been so disastrous?

Out with the old, in with the new. The Galaxy Edge theme park is the best evidence, that Disney gambled on the strength of the new canon. In the process they alienated a subsection of the previous generations of fans, whilst not being able to win over the new generation. They essentially rebooted the franchise with characters that aren’t as compelling, and so people lose interest.

See, that seems like an odd deduction to me. Honestly, if anything Disney has been focusing too much on the old canon, to the detriment of the new. 90% of merchandise, tie-in books, etc. seem to be OT related.

And I can’t imagine anyone who decided not to go to Galaxy’s Edge simply because it focuses on the new canon - general fans wouldn’t even necessarily know that’s the case and more hardcore fans wouldn’t care. I think there are a lot of other factors at play with the park, namely blocking out pass holders, raised ticket prices, and the fact that they still haven’t opened the second ride (the reason I haven’t been yet, and I obviously am a fan of the new canon). Worth noting too that the extent to which the park is “new canon” is only the characters who walk around the land. The planet that’s the setting of the park isn’t from any of the movies and the ride that’s open now doesn’t feature characters from any of the movies either (perhaps, if anything, this is evidence of a different problem).

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Huh I guess Star Wars really is dead and TLJ killed it. Good job, you proved it. Haha

Nope, Star Wars is in decline, and I’ve said nothing about TLJ being the cause, just that Disney’s strategy hasn’t worked, which is a reasonable conclusion, if the objective is growth, a conclusion supported by the recent analysis of bloomberg:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-07/star-wars-is-struggling-to-win-over-the-marvel-generation

What then would you say is Disney’s strategy that has been so disastrous?

Huh I guess Star Wars really is dead and TLJ killed it. Good job, you proved it. Haha

The persecution complex is a bit much for me. “You’re ACCUSING me of hating a movie I didn’t hate, how dare you! You’re the reason this franchise is dying, you and the fact that they made a movie that wasn’t fan service 101 ala Avengers: Endgame!” Hard not to look at all this “data” and not think it’s you trying to prove yourself right that this conspiracy to “demonize the fan base” has killed Star Wars or whatever. Sorry if it looks funny to an outsider who doesn’t as easily subscribe to prevailing reddit and YouTube theories.

Anchorhead said:

DrDre said:
For example the trash compactor scene doesn’t have any score.

Am I reading that response incorrectly?

The music during the trash compactor scene has been one of my very favorite pieces of Star Wars music since its release.

The Walls Converge: https://youtu.be/XOmwMqEULeg

What he’s saying is not that there wasn’t any score written/recorded, but that the final scene is almost entirely without music (save the last minute or so) because Lucas decided to cut it out.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

I make predictions, because I’m a scientist, and this sort of stuff interests me. I hope TROS will get the reception it deserves. If it’s great and widely accepted by the fandom, and the public in general, I hope it succeeds. If it’s bad or another extremy divisive film, which further deepens the rift in the fandom, I hope it sinks faster than Titanic.

Personally I don’t think we should be cheering for the failures of things that refuse to play it safe or don’t fear what will happen if they don’t satiate the desires of some fans. I couldn’t care less what the fandom at large (or at small) thinks. I just care if it’s good or not.

The divide between fans goes well beyond the merits of a single movie. A climate has been created by the creators, media, and fandom, that has led to some very ugly situations, and people being demonized for having an opinion on a movie, whether positive or negative. If that climate is perpetuated, I won’t care about the future of the franchise one way or the other. Star Wars to me is more than a bunch of films, it is a relationship, and the fandom is an integral part of that relationship. If the fandom is broken, all that will be left is a bunch of blockbusters with the Star Wars brand slapped on it. So, I believe the creators should think out of the box AND do their part to make that relationship work.

That ‘climate,’ hate to break it to you, is largely imaginary.

Personally I find it easy to separate the work from the fandom. Most fandoms are obnoxious, SW perhaps moreso than many. Personally, I’m not going to let that affect my enjoy of the films any time soon.

There’s nothing imaginary about being called an SJW for liking Holdo, and Rose Tico, or a misogynist or man baby for disliking those same characters.

The imaginary claim is in regards to the creators. Yeah, the fandom says stupid shit. That’s why I said fandom is obnoxious and best ignored.

The fandom, the media, and Lucasfilm employees have directly or indirectly kept adding fuel to the fire. From the very beginning critics were branded as haters, misogynists, manbabies, and what not, and not just by obnoxious fans. In the mean time Lucasfilm, and Disney did very little to set the record straight, that most critical fans had no association with toxic elements in the fandom. So, yes the creators didn’t directly attack fans for the most part. They had the media do the dirty work for them. All they had to do is stay silent, while the critics were all painted with the same toxic brush. I guess, it was in their interest to perpetuate the myth, that criticism against their products was mostly limited to toxic fans, driven by sinister motives, and Russian bots. Let’s get real here, even on this forum the motives of critics are continually questioned. We’re annoying, unreasonable people, that didn’t get what we want, and therefore hate Disney Star Wars, and desperately want it to fail…

The fact of the matter is, the complaining from TLJ-haters about being painted with a broad brush as something they’re not mostly comes across as silly and whiny. Most of complaints in regards to people calling everyone who criticized the movie “man baby” or “misogynist” are grossly overstated, considering there’s practically no one actually doing that, and these people are just latching on to legitimate critiques of people who actually are being man babies and misogynist, and falsely claiming they’re being lumped in with them (for reasons beyond me, maybe persecution complex or they don’t want to engage with the fact that there are people who are actually like that out there, who might share some opinions on a movie with them). Ultimately, posts like this^ just come across a little tinfoil hat-y. ‘The whole fandom is divided and out to get me, and Lucasfilm is complicit.’ It’s just silly man, I don’t know how else to describe it.

That’s why I call it imaginary. That’s what it feels like, a made up controversy. Obviously there are people out there being annoying on either side. But to the extent that it’s this extensive, disastrous, oppressive ‘climate’… not feeling it personally.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

I make predictions, because I’m a scientist, and this sort of stuff interests me. I hope TROS will get the reception it deserves. If it’s great and widely accepted by the fandom, and the public in general, I hope it succeeds. If it’s bad or another extremy divisive film, which further deepens the rift in the fandom, I hope it sinks faster than Titanic.

Personally I don’t think we should be cheering for the failures of things that refuse to play it safe or don’t fear what will happen if they don’t satiate the desires of some fans. I couldn’t care less what the fandom at large (or at small) thinks. I just care if it’s good or not.

The divide between fans goes well beyond the merits of a single movie. A climate has been created by the creators, media, and fandom, that has led to some very ugly situations, and people being demonized for having an opinion on a movie, whether positive or negative. If that climate is perpetuated, I won’t care about the future of the franchise one way or the other. Star Wars to me is more than a bunch of films, it is a relationship, and the fandom is an integral part of that relationship. If the fandom is broken, all that will be left is a bunch of blockbusters with the Star Wars brand slapped on it. So, I believe the creators should think out of the box AND do their part to make that relationship work.

That ‘climate,’ hate to break it to you, is largely imaginary.

Personally I find it easy to separate the work from the fandom. Most fandoms are obnoxious, SW perhaps moreso than many. Personally, I’m not going to let that affect my enjoy of the films any time soon.

There’s nothing imaginary about being called an SJW for liking Holdo, and Rose Tico, or a misogynist or man baby for disliking those same characters.

The imaginary claim is in regards to the creators. Yeah, the fandom says stupid shit. That’s why I said fandom is obnoxious and best ignored.

Also, the idea that TROS will make less than a billion worldwide is not what I would call a smart money prediction. There’s obviously a chance it could happen, but the percentage of likelihood is certainly on the low end.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

I make predictions, because I’m a scientist, and this sort of stuff interests me. I hope TROS will get the reception it deserves. If it’s great and widely accepted by the fandom, and the public in general, I hope it succeeds. If it’s bad or another extremy divisive film, which further deepens the rift in the fandom, I hope it sinks faster than Titanic.

Personally I don’t think we should be cheering for the failures of things that refuse to play it safe or don’t fear what will happen if they don’t satiate the desires of some fans. I couldn’t care less what the fandom at large (or at small) thinks. I just care if it’s good or not.

The divide between fans goes well beyond the merits of a single movie. A climate has been created by the creators, media, and fandom, that has led to some very ugly situations, and people being demonized for having an opinion on a movie, whether positive or negative. If that climate is perpetuated, I won’t care about the future of the franchise one way or the other. Star Wars to me is more than a bunch of films, it is a relationship, and the fandom is an integral part of that relationship. If the fandom is broken, all that will be left is a bunch of blockbusters with the Star Wars brand slapped on it. So, I believe the creators should think out of the box AND do their part to make that relationship work.

That ‘climate,’ hate to break it to you, is largely imaginary.

Personally I find it easy to separate the work from the fandom. Most fandoms are obnoxious, SW perhaps moreso than many. Personally, I’m not going to let that affect my enjoy of the films any time soon.

DrDre said:

I make predictions, because I’m a scientist, and this sort of stuff interests me. I hope TROS will get the reception it deserves. If it’s great and widely accepted by the fandom, and the public in general, I hope it succeeds. If it’s bad or another extremy divisive film, which further deepens the rift in the fandom, I hope it sinks faster than Titanic.

Personally I don’t think we should be cheering for the failures of things that refuse to play it safe or don’t fear what will happen if they don’t satiate the desires of some fans. I couldn’t care less what the fandom at large (or at small) thinks. I just care if it’s good or not.

Personally I can’t get past the fact that RO has the highest interest by far, yet lower BO than TFA and TLJ (and even on cumulative interest it’s still quite a bit higher, as is ROTS, over TLJ, despite the ultimate BO performance). Point being, it seems like a rather imprecise science, especially considering there isn’t the full picture for TROS yet.

And again, I have to ask, who cares exactly? Why bend over backwards to make a prediction when we’ll literally know how it’ll shape up in a few short months? Despite your protestations, it’s hard not to think you want TROS to fail.

DrDre said:

oojason said:

John Williams’ brother, Don: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Score Will Include ‘Every Theme That You Ever Heard’ (from IGN)

(with an inference that Episode IX runs for 135 minutes…)

 

It has been a while since I have heard Jar Jar’s theme 😉
 

Actually the scores of movies in general and Star Wars specifically are shorter than the actual runtime of the film. Having seen ANH and TESB with an orchestra, one of the first things I noticed is, that there are a number of scenes in both films, that don’t have any music at all. For example the trash compactor scene doesn’t have any score. So, if the score for TROS runs 135 min, we can expect TROS to have a runtime closer to 3 hrs.

Well it depends. I believe TFA and TLJ had comparable lengths for their scores, if not longer. But it’s a different situation with everything. TLJ had about 135 minutes of score and the movie was 150 minutes, which meant the music was a bit more wall to wall than usual for a SW film. TFA had a few scenes where the music was written and recorded but then cut in editing, as well as a lot of alternate cues for scenes due to the prolonged editing and recording schedule of the film (and reshoots).

That being said, in terms of TROS, we know that the schedule is a bit more compressed which means less time for post tinkering like JJ did on TFA. As well, there are less recording sessions for JW. So that being said, we’re basically still looking at a range of scenarios - the film uses all the music and is scored wall to wall or it’s not and it’s just a very long film, or the film ends up cutting a lot of the music and is a typical length SW film.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

The speculation about how the film may or may not perform is a complete waste of time.

In what sense? In this case it is not just speculation, it is a prediction based on a model, that has been scientifically validated, a model which shows movies with less interest on google trends tend to have lower box office returns, whereas higher interest generally leads to higher box office returns. So, it is simply an indicator, an indicator which gets more accurate as the movie’s release date approaches.

The truth will be in the proverbial pudding. Until then you can pat your back that everyone hates Disney Star Wars as much as you do. But the fact of the matter is, when the film is released, it’ll make the company a fair bit of money either way. And ultimately, who cares? The ST is done no matter how the film performs. The idea that Star Wars is ‘dead’ or will be after the film comes out is delusional. Disney will release more Star Wars films whether you like them or not. The only possible effect a disappointing box office run might have on the future of the franchise is that they’ll give into the nebulous desire for more of “what the fans want,” which is not something anyone should be foaming at the mouth for.

This is nonsense. I don’t hate Disney Star Wars anymore than I hated the prequels. I think both trilogies are deeply flawed, but they have their merits as well. I also haven’t stated, I expect Star Wars to be ‘dead’ in the future. So, I don’t know where all these baseless statements are coming from. I thought we had moved past these sort of outbursts, but I guess not.

The fact is interest in the franchise is waning, and I’m certainly curious about what Disney is going to do about it, and how TROS is going fit into that picture, both in terms of the current interest in the franchise, and the direction TROS might give for the future.

Not meant as an outburst. Figured you might take issue with some of my word choices but I was writing quickly and they did well as shorthand for - if not your feelings specifically - the feelings of many who talk about similar concerns on the internet. No need to take things personally, it was meant as a general comment.

As for the franchise waning, it’s a fact only so far as it’s naturally coming down from the all time high (77 excluded) of the TFA revival. Anything beyond that is up for debate - like any franchise Star Wars has always had its ups and downs. When the dust settles we’ll see if this is just a natural dip in between Episodes or something more. Either way it shouldn’t affect our view of the content itself.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

The speculation about how the film may or may not perform is a complete waste of time.

In what sense? In this case it is not just speculation, it is a prediction based on a model, that has been scientifically validated, a model which shows movies with less interest on google trends tend to have lower box office returns, whereas higher interest generally leads to higher box office returns. So, it is simply an indicator, an indicator which gets more accurate as the movie’s release date approaches.

The truth will be in the proverbial pudding. Until then you can pat your back that everyone hates Disney Star Wars as much as you do. But the fact of the matter is, when the film is released, it’ll make the company a fair bit of money either way. And ultimately, who cares? The ST is done no matter how the film performs. The idea that Star Wars is ‘dead’ or will be after the film comes out is delusional. Disney will release more Star Wars films whether you like them or not. The only possible effect a disappointing box office run might have on the future of the franchise is that they’ll give into the nebulous desire for more of “what the fans want,” which is not something anyone should be foaming at the mouth for.

The speculation about how the film may or may not perform is a complete waste of time.

I would think it depends on the property. With something like Star Wars or Indiana Jones, it’s obviously LFL, so now owned by Disney. Trickier to know where the rights lie with co-productions I think.

So something like The Land Before Time, if the other movies are anything to go by, I think Universal must own that. Something like Willow, where it’s LFL and Ron Howard, I’d imagine (heh) that that’d probably end up being something Disney might want them to look into.

Personally I’m most curious about Labyrinth. With the Jim Henson Company doing new Dark Crystal stuff, I wonder if they’d be interested in continuing the Labyrinth universe in some capacity, and if so if LFL would be involved.

But honestly, if I had to guess, Disney probably only cares about Star Wars and Indy from them in terms of IP, and otherwise the company will probably focused on coming up with new IP potential. Especially if the talk is true that Fox will soon cease to produce much more than preexisting IP movies, and if Disney continues to produce solely live action remakes and sequels (and the occasional kiddie flick), it makes sense to have a banner like LFL be making new, more-adult-skewing (though still family friendly) content. If someone doesn’t come up with new stuff eventually, they’re going to be in trouble.

I’ll refer back to my last post. Out of the thread.

MikeWW said:

ChainsawAsh said:

MikeWW said:

Anchorhead said:

MikeWW said:

George is the common element of every good movie he was involved in.

He’s also the common and often controlling element of many bad films in which he’s involved.

He hasn’t made a bad film other than Red Tails, which he didn’t even direct.
The closest to bad would be Episode 2, but it’s still far less narratively incoherent than Kasdan’s Episode 7.

Hahahahaha, are you serious? TFA is more incoherent than AOTC?

I legitimately cannot take another word you say seriously after that statement.

JEDIT: And in your next post you call AOTC Anakin “more consistent” than TFA Finn? That’s just objectively absurd.

“Objective”??? Now who’s being ridiculous?
Provide a counterargument, guy.

Or maybe take your off topic bitching out of my thread.

Mocata said:

StarkillerAG said:

Mocata said:

By saved in editing I mean exactly that, it’s no longer an ambiguous idea since now we’ve all seen what a slog the original structure would have been and how bad the deleted scenes are.

Yes, the original edit of Star Wars was bad, but the original edits of most movies are bad, too. That’s why editing exists. Star Wars wasn’t “saved by the edit” more than any other movie.

Yeah but what I’m saying is that we know what it looks like when George has 100% control, without these award winning editors, and it’s the PT. Those films were edited. But he needs those other more creative people to save it from his “vision” which is usually awful when dozens of yes-men are involved.

I think it’s a little more complicated than that, the yes-men problem is something that extends beyond the editing room.

MikeWW said:

Mocata said:

StarkillerAG said:

I think you’re missing the point here. Yes, the prequels are bad, and part of the reason why is because George surrounded himself with yes men. But that doesn’t say anything about George’s editing talents. The prequels are actually decently edited: the problem is with the script and acting, not the editing. Also, George edited Jurassic Park, and I don’t see anyone complaining about the bad editing in that movie.

You’re confusing editing for time and pacing with editing for awkward embarrassing content. I think we did this discussion already somewhere. And I think your glossing over the point to raise up the guy as a talent beyond the seeds and the ideas of the story. As for the rest of this thread which has devolved into random tangents about Stanley Kubrick and people taking things personally, I have no idea where to begin. This is OT.com after all, a place where people know the sole genius legend is a lie.

You can’t refute my evidence that points to George being the common element of quality, and that’s ok. But admit it.

The easiest refutation is that Lucas was also in charge on all three of the prequels.

RogueLeader said:

Did you prefer how the original cut of ROTS was less focused on Padmé and her dying? If I recall it correctly.

I mean, it’s tough for me to say I prefer a cut I’ve never seen, but yes, personally I think Anakin needed more than just ‘saving Padme’ to turn, and ultimately Lucas cut out most of that other stuff.

MikeWW said:

The RotS novelization has 3 big problems.

1. The writing style is TOO melodramatic
2. Stover trying to force his Shatterpoint fanfiction into pivotal scenes
3. The pacing is really unbalanced. He speeds through the Mustafar sequence like the deadline to turn in the manuscript was the next day.

Bonus problem- His characterization of Dooku was questionable compared to better EU entries such as Yoda: Dark Rendezvous.

The ROTS film had one big problem: Anakin’s turn to the dark side is completely unbelievable. The novelization does not have this problem.

But Regarding AotC, I don’t think it was changed more, I think the changes are just more obvious. The fake beard and all that.

No. The changes to AOTC are well documented in the Making of book and the audio commentary. They go beyond just the scenes with the fake beard.

RogueLeader said:

I knew AOTC had reshoots but I don’t think I knew that it was very extensive. Are there specific reasons why it was?

Working off a script that was in a bad spot, plus Lucas fully realizing the potential to change the film dramatically while in post I guess.

RogueLeader said:

I think it is a matter of balancing perspectives. Every writer or journalist is going to have their own bias. Obviously George deserves a lot of credit and responsibility for what he created (good or bad, however you feel about it), as well as surrounding himself with other talented filmmakers who also contributed heavily to these films. Filmmaking is inherently a collaborative process, so videos like “How Star Wars was saved in the edit” aren’t trying to say the editors saved a sinking ship that George was sailing, it is just trying to highlight the contributions of other artists who helped make the movie what it was too.

Yeah basically this, but also

MikeWW said:

I feel that “saved in the edit” is indeed a phrase that carries certain anti-GL-credit connotations. Otherwise, what is the implication? That the editors salvaged George’s mess. It implies a distance between the film being shot and the film being edited.

This feels true as well.

Regarding this though

What’s funny though is that the (pre Disney) Star Wars movie most altered in the edit is probably Revenge of The Sith, and even Mathew Stover who wrote the novelization (that people like to say is better than the movie) called George’s assembly edit-based reshoots “genius”.

AOTC was certainly altered more. A decent chunk of that movie was done in reshoots, probably a number not too far off from RO. Also the ROTS novelization is way better than the movie. But there I give Lucas the benefit of the doubt, because I have not read the script he was working from, I don’t know how much is Stover and how much is Lucas (and how much of the material which was not in the film was actually shot, which I think there was a decent amount). But reading that book definitely makes me think that George actually could have made a great movie out of that, had he cut it differently.