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DominicCobb

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16-Aug-2011
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20-Jun-2025
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Post History

Post
#1294457
Topic
Similarities between the Original Trilogy and the Sequel Trilogy
Time

Mocata said:

You can see how that might be confusing when you skip ahead 20-30 years. I do agree that they could have provided more context in the films, but the existence of the similarities doesn’t break it for me. I think that really is the weakness, because I think with the right context your audience would say, “Yeah, that makes sense.”

Well amongst all the similarities they wanted is to have that idea of being flung into the action, which in some ways works. I really like the opening with Kylo meeting Max von Sydow. But while the OT dripped little pieces of info so it never feels too alien, TFA needed something like that Death Star conference scene to quickly sum up current affairs. Or even just a quick sound bite here and there to say the Republic is soft and doesn’t want to openly support Leia’s para-military actions.

I completely agree. I think I might have even said as much in my first post ever on the film, but they really could have accomplished a lot with a single Death Star conference room kind of scene (further similarity be damned). I’ve had this picture for years now of that giant room with the Snoke hologram filled up with FO officers (the chairs are already there!), having a SPECTRE style meeting straight out of Sean Connery Bond film, each giving updates about the nefarious things they’ve been doing throughout the galaxy. Alas, I don’t know if the filmmakers didn’t consider an expository scene like this, if it got cut (there was of course a bit more background info in the Leia subplot), or if they just wanted to avoid exposition like that entirely because of the PT.

Post
#1294453
Topic
Similarities Between the Original Trilogy and the Prequel Trilogy
Time

RogueLeader said:

Interesting perspectives!

As a third perspective, I’ve gone from loving the prequels as a kid for the spectacle, to disliking them for their flaws as a teenager, to coming back appreciate their strengths and accepting their weaknesses, acknowledging that they can have both good and bad, but I can still enjoy them as a part of this larger story.

I think I’ll always be able to enjoy them, that part of me has never changed. For the last few years though it’s been hard to watch them and not think of all the could-have-been-betters (as someone who’s trying to make fan edits of them, this is even more heightened). For me this has been especially in light of the ST, which in my opinion puts the PT to shame in nearly every respect (in fact I almost gave up on my PT edits after TFA). But I will say this, I’m sure eventually I’ll come around to thinking “who cares, they are what they are,” and probably sooner rather than later. Especially since, for the last few months, I’ve been reading all the PT “Making Of” books, and watching most of the BTS features, and that’s making it hard not to appreciate a lot of the work that went into the films (even as it shines a light on why some of the problems might have occurred). Honestly probably the easiest way for me to enjoy/appreciate them is just to take them as their own things, divorced from the weight of the rest of the saga (which I guess is ironic considering the thread where in).

Post
#1294447
Topic
Similarities between the Original Trilogy and the Sequel Trilogy
Time

Maybe it comes down to what you’re looking for from the series. In my mind, the world was a backdrop, and the plot was a vehicle. My favorites were the OT, where it was a pretty straightforward conflict. We never saw the Imperial senate, we were never even sure who was leading the Rebellion. What I always loved the most was the characters and their stories, and so, as a kid, when I used to wonder what happened after ROTJ, it was always in regards to what were my favorite characters up to? With the ST, the set dressing is similar but ultimately the kid in me is satisfied because the part that always mattered more to me was new. My take at least.

Post
#1294405
Topic
Similarities Between the Original Trilogy and the Prequel Trilogy
Time

DrDre said:

This article represents a fairly balanced view on how I percieve the PT, and its relation to the OT, in the wake of the ST:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/star-wars-prequels-disney-fan-backlash/amp/

I wish the final section (the one germane to this topic) was a bit more fleshed out. As is they just say a few basic statements about the PT - that there was “forward-planning” and that it was nice that they “highlighted a different ruling era” that was “detached and alien” - that I personally cannot agree with. The only forward-planning that existed was simply basic beats that everyone knew would be hit by virtue of them being prequels. As for the drastically different aesthetics of the different era, I personally believe this was a chief failing of the films, and one way in which more similarity would have been better, to feel more cohesive.

I think I’ve said it before, but Star Wars as it existed on screen in the OT was not at all what Lucas had in mind for the world. With the PT he was finally able to put his vision on screen. He added the “rhymes” and tied everything up with a bow at the end of ROTS to provide connective tissue, but ultimately it’s clear he didn’t care much for how the OT ended up.

It’s funny, because I never needed to “forgive” the prequels, as the article’s headline states. When the films came out I loved them. In retrospect, so many years later however, it’s clearer and clearer how Lucas dropped the ball in terms of continuing the saga in a fitting way. Ultimately it’s hard for me to reconcile the two trilogies, but the “poetry” of it all certainly helps, I think, to make the story cohesive.

Post
#1294396
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations
Time

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

Your posts continue to astound, as always.

You’re the one continuing to debate the person instead of the point.

Don’t mind me.

If anyone else wants to continue down the line of “it’s not a trailer”, you’re pretty much arguing semantics at this point as with new footage ending with the title and release month it services exactly as a teaser trailer either way even if not officially released as one.

Yeah, that’s not the point. It’s a marketing reel. Who gives a shit. The forensic analysis is asinine.

Before I attempt to stave off filling this thread with any more completely off topic replies, I will simply point out that it was yourself who came out of the woodwork just to specifically have a go at me.

oojason has already touched on this so I won’t.

So are you saying Disney would not use OT nostalgia AT ALL to try and bolster interest in the franchise they now own? That would be extremely naive and points more to you just needing to be opposed to anything I say despite what is an obvious given in terms of prudent business practice.

That’s not what I said at all.

My point is that the level of nostalgia is far beyond what is logically and obviously expected, such that it points to other reasons to bait people’s interest in these movies through heavy use of nostalgia and the cinematic inbreeding Dre so concisely articulated has and continues to happen.

If that’s what you want to believe, I don’t think I can convince you otherwise.

Post
#1294313
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations
Time

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

Your posts continue to astound, as always.

You’re the one continuing to debate the person instead of the point.

Don’t mind me.

If anyone else wants to continue down the line of “it’s not a trailer”, you’re pretty much arguing semantics at this point as with new footage ending with the title and release month it services exactly as a teaser trailer either way even if not officially released as one.

Yeah, that’s not the point. It’s a marketing reel. Who gives a shit. The forensic analysis is asinine.

Post
#1294307
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations
Time

Your posts continue to astound, as always.

FYI, last time this saga had a “final installment,” this is what the first actual teaser trailer looked like:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=opfJIo__ANQ

(time it out if you want, you’ll just be missing the point in a rush to prove your deluded nonsense)

Post
#1294304
Topic
Similarities Between the Original Trilogy and the Prequel Trilogy
Time

RogueLeader said:

I actually like Anakin turning to the dark side because of his attachment. Ultimately, it is his attachment to Luke that brings Anakin back to the light, not any kind of moral epiphany. To me, this parallel highlights how love can have this “double nature of being both condemning and redeeming”. It also demonstrates how the Jedi’s view on love was flawed. It can be a weakness, but it also can be a strength. It can have two sides, just like the Force. And this dualism is something Luke discovers as he grows into a wiser Jedi.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t disagree. The offhanded comment I made wasn’t about the concept or its connection to the OT, it was just more about how Anakin turning to the dark over the course of ROTS is its main plot (unlike ROTJ), and its execution is less than stellar.

I also figured I would link the Star Wars Ring Theory since it seems relevant to the thread. I’m not necessarily agreeing with the writer’s conclusion, but there are clearly many parallels between the trilogies that he highlights throughout his blog posts. Might be interesting to touch on them in this thread.

Yes I meant to touch on this. I have similar thoughts to you, interesting theory but I don’t completely agree.

Post
#1294286
Topic
Similarities Between the Original Trilogy and the Prequel Trilogy
Time

I remember (maybe I’m imagining this) at one point on Wikipedia or Wookiepedia there was literally a list of all the OT echoes in the PT. When I was young I thought it was really cool, and I really dug Lucas’s philosophy of “it’s like poetry, it rhymes.” Apparently not everyone finds this cool, or at least, they didn’t until the ST did it too much and now, supposedly, the PT did it well.

Lucas has stated outright that the films of the PT are meant to mirror the OT. He states that instead of seeing the conflict of TPM from the outsider’s perspective of two droids, it’s the outsider’s perspective of two Jedi (with both pairs being integral to the plot). The pairs are on a mission to help a captive young Princess/Queen (who has crucial information she needs to deliver). On their way they get sidetracked and end up on the desert planet of Tatooine, where they meet a Skywalker boy who longs to become a pilot. The old Jedi master character recognizes his force potential and wants him to become a Jedi. Skywalker leaves Tatooine with them, presumably never to return (which ends up not being true). On the ship, the royal girl comforts the boy (who has just lost a parental figure) with a blanket. In the climactic space battle, Skywalker ends up destroying the sphere shaped space station (with the help of R2), saving the day. Elsewhere, the older Jedi master mentor character is killed by a Darth in a lightsaber duel. The final scene is a victory celebration, with both having a very similar final shot (everyone standing together on steps looking out to the crowd).

In AOTC, like TESB, there’s another galactic civil war waging, and a large scale ground battle set piece (featuring walkers). The heroes are split into different plots. Two of the leads fall in love over the course of their story while hiding from the bad guys (the third lead has no love interest), their first kiss is interrupted, and right before it seems like one or both of them might die, the woman professes her love. Skywalker leaves his mission to follow a vision he has of loved ones in danger (but he’s too late). There’s a bounty hunter Fett involved. A chase through an asteroid field. The good guy ship uses garbage to get away, and powers down the ship and hides. C-3PO ends up in pieces and R2 drags him. A Darth extends an offer to one of our heroes to join him. Skywalker loses his right hand in a lightsaber duel.

ROTS, like ROTJ, begins with a lengthy sequence where our heroes have to rescue their friend from a bad guy, who gets killed by one of the heroes. There’s a battle on a forest planet with hairy creatures. There’s a high speed chase scene in the middle of the film. Skywalker faces the ultimate test of whether or not he will turn to the dark side, while Palpatine schemes to get him to join him. In one scene, Skywalker uses his anger to best a Darth (who previously beat him) in a duel while Palpatine looks on, goading him to kill. In another scene, Anakin/Vader watches as someone he cares for suffers force lightning, then turns, lashing out at his former ally who ends up dropped down from a large height. The climactic duel is Skywalker facing off against his father figure - but the good guy is reluctant to fight. One of the final moments is a funeral for one of the main characters of the trilogy. Anakin/Vader finally puts on the mask/takes it off.

These are specific ones relating entries to their respective entries, but there’s more than that. The parental figures the Skywalker boys grew up with are killed, in ANH and AOTC. TPM’s climax actually closely mirrors ROTJ’s (lightsaber duel + ground battle with native species + space battle to destroy station), they both have a speeder sequence halfway through, and then in both we get a pyre funeral right after and then a victory celebration. In AOTC, we get a bar scene where Obi-wan cuts off someone’s arm. Obi-wan says “hello there” in both trilogies. Anakin says “this is where the fun begins,” a Han Solo line. Both trilogies feature a prominent shot of people looking at the setting twin suns at the Lars homestead, backed by the force theme (speaking of the Lars homestead, a couple scenes in AOTC and ANH feature the same locations and even the same camera angles). Not to mention countless other intentional visual references that are hard to describe, like R2 knocking off C-3PO (AOTC droid factory and ROTJ sail barge). Plus all the things I’m forgetting.

I think that the whole “similarity” aspect of the PT helps the movies quite a bit, in many ways, giving the stories a mirror to compare and contrast to, enhancing the themes and characters at play. Ultimately, the prequels are a failure, but not for this reason, which I think makes them rather interesting. Honestly, more often then not, when the PT tries to do something different, those are the times it fails spectacularly (to pick the worst aspect from each - Jar Jar Binks in general, the forbidden romance, and turning to the dark to save Padme).

Well folks, debate away (but please, keep the debate PT-oriented).

Post
#1294271
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

emanswfan said:

Seeing the new TROS teaser, I’m extremely disappointed to see the same old blu-ray masters being shown. I’d really hoped by now they’d be showing shots from new masters. I can already imagine the horror of discovering that the new 4K versions are just upscales of the 2011 blu-rays.

Even if there is a new 4K master, it’s unlikely they would have used it for something like a teaser this far out.

Post
#1294257
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations
Time

DrDre said:

I also don’t see how a story, that is about a politician/Sith Lord bringing down a democracy through manipulation is more similar to the OT, than the story of a group of rebels fighting an Empire, led by a former Jedi student, who betrayed his master, and destroyed the Jedi order. I think you are being very selective in what you focus on in the PT, namely a few delibirate similarities between Luke and Anakin (although I don’t remember Luke slaughtering an entire village), whilst ignoring the ton of similarities that exist between the story, plot, and the settings of the OT, and PT.

I mean you can be selective anyway you want. Both the OT and the PT are stories about young men from desert worlds coming of age, becoming Jedi, and choosing either light or dark with the balance of the galaxy at stake (with the outcomes being opposite, and the factions inverted). The story being about a “politician/Sith Lord bringing down a democracy through manipulation” is a fair bit inaccurate, considering it’s subtext at best in the first two thirds of the trilogy. Hmm, interesting, maybe we shouldn’t be claiming what an entire trilogy is about when we’ve only seen two thirds of it?

Regardless, I’m not sure what this has to do with the supposed topic at hand.

Post
#1294194
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

The 3PO thing is really messing with my head. On the one hand, he’s one of my favorite characters and the idea of him going into a kill mode of some sort is inherently funny to me. On the other hand, it is impossible to forget what happened to him in AOTC, easily the worst moment of the saga and very much unfunny. So I don’t know how to feel. Ultimately I guess it’s about execution.

I will say, if TROS turns out to be as balls to the wall as they seem to be promising, ROTJ will feel like a real outlier in this saga in terms of go-for-broke trilogy cappers (quality aside).

Post
#1294152
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Seems silly to make any sort of judgement call at this point (but that’s Star Wars fans for you, cynical til the end). For instance, while something like a giant epic weather-infused duel obviously brings to mind the disappointments of ROTS, that doesn’t mean that just because something is bigger means it’s necessarily worse (I believe there was a way they could have done that duel on Mustafar and have it not be shit). I do believe there is a way to go big and crazy and still have quality. We’ll only know in December.

Post
#1294125
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

nl0428 said:

DominicCobb said:

No matter the context, I’m happy to see that the film will be engaging with the idea in some way.

It’ll be cool. I just don’t understand why fans really want cloning to be brought back into the franchise. The cloning stories that the old expanded universe told involving Palpatine, Luke and Starkiller were just so ridiculous and I would go as far to say they were awful. It just felt like fan service at a ridiculous new height and power. I do believe that J.J. Abrams, Kathleen Kennedy and everyone else at Lucasfilm are way too smart to think of and include an idea of Rey fighting a Dark Side clone of herself. I honestly don’t know why fans would want to see something as bonkers and nonsensical as this idea sounds to me.

Yeah that’d be hard not to be dumb.

Post
#1294010
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

act on instinct said:

It makes sense, no way palps is just going to look the same after everything and anything more official would be too revealing when they want to save it.

I mean at this point it’s still entirely unclear what his involvement actually is. Will he even appear visually at all? Who’s to say. But apparently his presence, whatever it is, is enough for his ghostly visage to loom over the poster.

Post
#1293937
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

act on instinct said:

Official enough to make the wikipedia, makes sense with what has been introduced in the actual teaser so far, probably one of many posters which I expect will have less palpatine emphasis.

Mocata said:

What was the source for that?

When wondering if something’s official or not, never a bad idea to check starwars.com