I don’t think it’d really work to have a vision and then Mustafar, probably too chaotic. If one was to put the Vader’s helmet scene first I’d think a voice or voices would be more appropriate.
The only thing I would change though is the implication that Han’s just a memory, I personally didn’t like how he just forgives himself and suddenly he’s good again.
I don’t think that’s quite what’s happening in that scene.
Did anyone else find it odd that Palpatine was never referred to as Sidious in TROS? Luke dropped “Darth Sidious” in TLJ, but in a movie with "Darth Sidious "as the main villain and with a sith cult that follows him, nobody calls palpatine by his sith name.
Feels strange for luke to call him palpatine after TLJ 😕
I think if you think about it Luke using Sidious is the name that made the most sense in the context of that sentence. In TROS, Luke is talking about Rey being a Palpatine, so it wouldn’t really make sense to say “You’re a Sidious,” or to call her a Palpatine and then switch to a different name. As for the others, I imagine the general population wouldn’t know the name Sidious. In the end, it’s really Kylo Ren that’s the problem, because he should be well aware of the name Sidious. And if they wanted to keep things consistent with one name that’d be fine, but they have Kylo calling him both “Palpatine” and “The Emperor,” often in the same scene.
Hal 9000 said:
Skenera, that shot looks good! I don’t think his cape matters, as I would want to crib that shot between two establishing shots anyway and he could easily have discarded it. It’s the snow that’s probably gonna kill it. Ash maybe, but snow might be too weird to accept.Problem is that he wears the cape during the battle, it’s not like he’d put it on before engaging the enemy.
I mean it’s a completely different outfit altogether.
Yes you can pretty clearly see the suns rise in both shots.
I felt like the scene where the Resistance finds out Palpatine is alive was rushed, I tried adding some slower paced music to try and add some breathing room and make it feel more sinister and serious.
(Rough Test)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vss4cLS1os
A smart change and it works well, but swapping out music in such a dialogue heavy scene is tough.
The solution in my head that’d work is you color correct both to match each other, and then in the wide shot of Kylo post battle you add some lava flow.
Ideally as well what’d be added to the clean RO shots would be the three TIE fighters we see in the opening shot.
I’m curious to see what people might come up with putting the helmet scene at the start. The fact that he knows Palps is behind Vader’s voice is definitely an important question. In my edit I tried to solve this by having Kylo hear Palps’s voice when he touches the helmet, so basically it’s like Kylo was checking to see if what he said was true.
Of course you’ve got it all covered, why didn’t I even worry.
Regarding the comms, people should be careful to say various things. Personally I feel like you probably couldn’t get away with more than a couple instances of the actually phrase “For Skywalker.” Might also be worth getting in check with the guy on twitter who did an edit with a bunch of different voices.
Here’s an idea for some clever VFXer out there (this is an idea I saw elsewhere I should say)…
In this scene, we see kids watching a puppet show
I couldn’t find a pic, but there’s a short cutaway where we see one puppet throw a stone into a bin of fire or something. But why not depict Luke on Crait, like the end of TLJ? Something to chew on.
Excellent work!
I wouldn’t be so sure, I mean they wouldn’t actually need footage of Carrie for any of those shots.
The finale being contrived is its own issue, had the story not written itself into such a mess it still should have been about the new main characters and not the old, which would just be unfair and unsatisfying in its own way.
Yeah I mean I don’t see how having the ghosts kill Palpatine would have fixed any of the real issues going on here. Just would have been more fan service.
I think the purpose of not doing that was specifically to keep agency with the main protagonists, just like how Luke doesn’t actually swoop in to save the day as to not overshadow the new characters we’re meant to be following this trilogy.
Yeah I actually thought the ghosts were one of the few things handled tastefully.
As I said, it’s the ideal that the Jedi should strive for, so naturally it should be how they accomplish their ultimate victory. They figured out a beautiful way to accomplish it in TLJ but just ignored the concept entirely when it came to the final installment because face melting cool and bad ass or whatever.
I like a halfway point between A and C. I think A maybe recedes too much in the back half, whereas C slows down a bit too much, but I like the more defined shape of the Falcon in front of the sun, and the longer streak.
Actually I guess it might be more accurate to say I like a halfway between A and B. The first half of B doesn’t work for me, the fakeness of the model seems apparent with the slower speed to start off and the lighting isn’t quite right. But the second half of B feels perfect to me in terms of path and speed (although again I personally would prefer a longer streak). Maybe part of the issue for me is that this is clearly shot with a very long lens for the suns to be that big, so it doesn’t feel right for me for the Falcon to get as small as it does.
To me, the solution would have been simple.
When Rey goes to Ahch-to, she’s avoiding her fears, but she should have also been having a crisis of faith in the power of the Force (which Luke helps restore by lifting the X-wing).
At the end, to complete her journey, she decides not to avoid her fear, but also not to try to use brute force to overcome it. As Luke should have done in the cave in TESB, she doesn’t use her saber, and puts her trust solely in the force. When Palpatine starts shooting her with lightning, she turns off her saber and lets the lightning strike her - but it doesn’t, her faith is rewarded and it phases through her, Luke on Crait style (but without the need for astral projection). The lightning going through Rey destroys the temple and kills Palpatine.
People would have hated it, but it would’ve been pretty cool and a fitting conclusion.
Eh, feels too much like a deus ex machina for me. I’d prefer for Force powers to have some sense of realism, rather than just being a get-out-of-jail-free card for true believers. Plus, if you can’t get hit by lightning when you trust yourself in the light side, why did Luke get hit by lightning in ROTJ?
Yeah I don’t really care about that, to me it feels like a proper step up from the last film (and would’ve have made her death by exhaustion make a lot more sense). Plus she’s got the thousand generations living inside her or whatever.
Regardless, there are a few ways to accomplish the same idea. Her life-force creates a shield, or the ghosts of the Jedi block the blasts (ROTJ early draft style).
I disagree, I think that the “always make it one step up from what happened before” attitude was what made the movie so unfulfilling in the first place. It doesn’t make narrative or dramatic sense for Rey to just magically not die. The Force ghost idea might be better though, Jonh in the fanedit thread already did something like that.
Did you miss the part where I said she still dies? In my mind it’s the final installment there’s a license to show something we’ve never seen before. And I think I pretty well explained the narrative and dramatic sense for it.
Not that any of this matters of course.
To me, the solution would have been simple.
When Rey goes to Ahch-to, she’s avoiding her fears, but she should have also been having a crisis of faith in the power of the Force (which Luke helps restore by lifting the X-wing).
At the end, to complete her journey, she decides not to avoid her fear, but also not to try to use brute force to overcome it. As Luke should have done in the cave in TESB, she doesn’t use her saber, and puts her trust solely in the force. When Palpatine starts shooting her with lightning, she turns off her saber and lets the lightning strike her - but it doesn’t, her faith is rewarded and it phases through her, Luke on Crait style (but without the need for astral projection). The lightning going through Rey destroys the temple and kills Palpatine.
People would have hated it, but it would’ve been pretty cool and a fitting conclusion.
Eh, feels too much like a deus ex machina for me. I’d prefer for Force powers to have some sense of realism, rather than just being a get-out-of-jail-free card for true believers. Plus, if you can’t get hit by lightning when you trust yourself in the light side, why did Luke get hit by lightning in ROTJ?
Yeah I don’t really care about that, to me it feels like a proper step up from the last film (and would’ve have made her death by exhaustion make a lot more sense). Plus she’s got the thousand generations living inside her or whatever.
Regardless, there are a few ways to accomplish the same idea. Her life-force creates a shield, or the ghosts of the Jedi block the blasts (ROTJ early draft style).
As for Finn, instead of making the ‘I’m staying behind’ sacrifice move to destroy the star destroyers, the star destroyers should’ve all been goners, but he stays behind to hijack their comms and send a message to all the stormtroopers that the war is lost and they should abandon their posts and save their lives rather than go down with their destroyers. Something like that.
I tried to do a more extreme version of that in the rewrite I just posted. Finn doesn’t sacrifice himself, and the fleet doesn’t get blown up. Instead, he persuades the Sith cultists to rebel against their master, using the fleet to destroy Palpatine. I think that’s the most fulfilling possible evolution of Finn’s arc.
I think the microchip thing is kinda goofy in general (though I get why they did it in TCW) and I think for his climactic heroic act to be simply “saving” the stormtroopers to be a lot cleaner than getting them to blow shit up. To clarify as well I’m working from a place of simply a small change to the preexisting film that would’ve made it better. If it was up to me things would have been way different top to bottom.
Interesting. I like where you’re going with the Finn idea. Imagine if when the communication tower switched signals, instead of Finn just getting a “feeling” about where the new signal is being broadcast, Finn gets the idea to use the communication tower instead of blasting it. They land, infiltrate the tower, and he broadcasts a message to all the the Star Destroyers, telling all the stormtroopers to stand up and fight. Perhaps Finn’s earlier conversation with Jannah could foreshadow this idea, maybe when Jannah explains why they laid their weapons down.
Then we cut to the all the troopers in the destroyers, listening, and eventually rebelling.
Exactly. Seems like such an obvious missed opportunity to me.
To me, the solution would have been simple.
When Rey goes to Ahch-to, she’s avoiding her fears, but she should have also been having a crisis of faith in the power of the Force (which Luke helps restore by lifting the X-wing).
At the end, to complete her journey, she decides not to avoid her fear, but also not to try to use brute force to overcome it. As Luke should have done in the cave in TESB, she doesn’t use her saber, and puts her trust solely in the force. When Palpatine starts shooting her with lightning, she turns off her saber and lets the lightning strike her - but it doesn’t, her faith is rewarded and it phases through her, Luke on Crait style (but without the need for astral projection). The lightning going through Rey destroys the temple and kills Palpatine.
People would have hated it, but it would’ve been pretty cool and a fitting conclusion.
As for Finn, instead of making the ‘I’m staying behind’ sacrifice move to destroy the star destroyers, the star destroyers should’ve all been goners, but he stays behind to hijack their comms and send a message to all the stormtroopers that the war is lost and they should abandon their posts and save their lives rather than go down with their destroyers. Something like that.
Okay so she still killed him, just not in the specific way Palpatine wanted. So she won on a technicality. Not really a huge victory for her character though is it?
Failure would have been using the dark side or becoming a Sith, etc. Jedi’s are not pacifists. They all make their own personal handheld decapitation machine. So yes, melting Palpatine’s face off, accomplishing something even Yoda could not do, that’s a huge victory for her character. From scavenger to savior of the Jedi Order.
Pacifism is clearly the Jedi ideal. I actually think Rey finding a way to set aside her lightsaber would have been a better resolution, and a more interesting path for her to take the Jedi order in.
Simply being able to kill the big bad guy is terribly unimaginative and un-meaningful as a victory for the character and for the Jedi as a whole.
Wow quite a big jump in detail isn’t it.
Palpatine wanted Rey to complete the silly ritual. She did not do that. And Palpatine was killed from his own lightning directed back into his ugly mug.
Okay so she still killed him, just not in the specific way Palpatine wanted. So she won on a technicality. Not really a huge victory for her character though is it?
Sorry, but I don’t really understand that complaint (about Rey killing Palpatine). What was Rey supposed to do, say “I won’t kill you because I’m good” and hope that Palpatine spontaneously combusts? Luke had Vader to help him, Rey had no one there for her. I don’t see how it violates Lucas’s saga if killing Palpatine was literally her only option.
Regardless of how the larger saga portrays the Jedi ideal, even within this film it doesn’t make sense as a resolution. Palpatine wants Rey to kill him, and she proves him wrong by… doing exactly that.
So padme is supposed to already be 8-9 months pregnant when we first see her in ROTS?
Yes and I believe this has always been the case.