DominicCobb

So it seems like Solo can officially be called a “disappointment” (for Star Wars), but there’s an interesting game of chess here when you think about it.

Almost without a doubt some of the biggest reasons why this didn’t do as well were related to release date - five months after TLJ, super crowded marketplace with Avengers and Deadpool, and Memorial Day isn’t as strong as it once was. So why did they stick with this release date? SW traditions aside, I think the simple fact is that Solo wouldn’t be able to handle the pressure of the December “event” position. Because the movie is not an “event,” and the brand would’ve suffered for it if the perception was that it was and couldn’t live up to it. Instead they positioned it as very much a “summer movie” (with the cast and crew constantly mentioning this fact) to make it clear it was light and breezy (and ultimately, skippable).

The math here being, I think they believe that Episode IX will make more money than Solo lost because it will have been clearly delineated as the “event” Star Wars movie that is required viewing. By allowing some viewers the option to tune out of SW this time around, the demand will be higher the next time they need to see one (plus for the people who have seen Solo, there’s a longer wait for IX than normal). Again, the Marvel solo outings work as a good comparison. If every Marvel film was a big must see event, then their 3-films-a-year strategy would be untenable.

In an odd way the Lord/Miller firing makes sense. Since you’re already going to have a lot of people checking out, you need to make sure that the spin off can’t be too niche and alienating for the fans. Whereas with a saga installment like TLJ, everyone’s going to see it anyway, so you can kinda get a bit crazy.

The one thing I think they could’ve done better was do a date shuffle. Solo should’ve had Ant-Man’s July 6 spot, and Ant-Man should’ve moved back to August.

ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

The story group doesn’t really force things in, there’ve been no examples of that that I can think of. They’re there for consultation and brainstorming.

I just meant that they might suggest places and characters during the writing process. It’s not uncommon for screenwriters to temporarily creste a place or character without a name or any specific details. With the story group I’d imagine they help fill these gaps. Plus, I’m sure the Kasdan’s simply asked them for help several times.

My guess would be that Saw Gerrera in RO was originally just an unnamed “terrorist” and that at some point someone at the story group figured he resembled Saw From Clone Wars and suggested they use that name.

They don’t force anything, but they probably have a pretty large(-ish) influence on the stories.

Yeah definitely, that all sounds right. I just remember I think I saw someone here say that they forced Maul into this, which seems quite off base.

suspiciouscoffee said:

DominicCobb said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

Han……………SOLO: A Star Wars Story - 5/10

I disagree but will respect your opinion.

Close Encounters of the Third Kind - 7/10

Oh, to hell with you!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I used to like it a lot more, but I just wasn’t feeling it this time. I’m fickle, I could like it more again next time I watch it.

The director’s cut is better.

suspiciouscoffee said:

Han……………SOLO: A Star Wars Story - 5/10

I disagree but will respect your opinion.

Close Encounters of the Third Kind - 7/10

Oh, to hell with you!

Hardcore Legend said:

I think I was the only person who laughed outloud at Lando’s “Mining colonies are the worst” line. Even my brother thought I was nuts.

My theater loved that one. Actually I almost missed the humor of that but the reaction keyed me into the joke.

Oddly enough there also seemed to be a lot of hardcore EU fans at my screening, some of the references got a couple gasps.

oojason said:

DominicCobb said:

oojason said:

fmalover said:

Frank your Majesty said:

In my opinion, these two threads should have been created right after TLJ was released, when it became evident how polarising it is. This might have shortened some of the drawn out, fruitless arguments.

This said, I like how polarising TLJ is. It turns the comparably safe TFA on its head and takes the ST in a new direction. I’m curious for the final chapter.

I’m feeling pessimistic about Episode IX due to Abrams returning, as he’s a very play-it-safe kinda guy. The only movies where he was involved that I actually enjoyed are Armaggedon (he was one of the scriptwriters IIRC) and the very first Cloverfield movie which he produced. Other than that I consider him to be the popcorn guy’s Paul Thomas Anderson, in that both make totally insipid movies yet both are praised by their respective audiences as genius visionaries. If Chris Terrio was the sole scriptwriter I’d be more optimistic, but I’m sure Abrams will botch it all up as co-writer after all as he, alongside Lawrence Kasdan, scrapped Michael Arndt’s original script for TFA and then both proceeded to a copy-paste job.

For me, JJ is strange choice to wrap the Sequel Trilogy up - in my mind he seems more suited to creative ideas and intriguing plots and devices to draw the viewer at the start of a project - rather than finishing one. Hopefully he’ll knock it out of the park - yet given where the current story is in the Trilogy - he has a lot to do and accomplish in the final film…

I agree, except he’s coming back around to a thing he already started. So he has a strong creative (and emotional) attachment to this story, and has surely been thinking a lot about it’s direction in the years since he left.

Nice point - plus, he also has seen the script for TLJ quite a while now (I think he complimented RJ on it, saying he wished he’d wrote/directed it? - a few months before release?) - so likely has ideas brewing away to continue and resolve aspects of TLJ for a good while now too…

Yep. Plus he almost certainly saw the script(s) for Episode IX as team Trevorrow was working on it (in his capacity as executive producer). It’s even quite likely that the reason he got the job is because he had a strong idea as to how to right the ship.

suspiciouscoffee said:

Ryan-SWI said:

Oh, okay.

Don’t get why them being women is relevant at all though.

It’s relevant to the history of the trope, as it’s typically women dying to advance the man plot/character arc. Val died so Woody could… punch Han I guess? And L3 died so they could cannibalize her for parts.

I don’t think “fridge” really works as a word to describe when they kill a female character, it’s a bit more specific than that. There’s an argument to be made for L3, but not Val (who is killed for almost no reason at all, so actually it’s worse).

There’s also the fact that they kinda pulled a mini Rogue One and killed almost all the new characters (save for Enfys and Qi’Ra), so again, I’m not sure if the word “fridge” works. But the spirit of your argument, that they did wrong by the female characters, is definitely spot on.

LuckyGungan2001 said:

It seems like people who disliked the movie attended screenings where nobody liked it, and people who did like it attended screenings where people also enjoyed it. This goes for all four of the new films, it’s always the case.

I like to think I’m pretty honest. There were a lot of jokes my theater didn’t laugh at, and a lot of times we weren’t on the same page. (I was the only one to laugh at Han “clicking” the thermal detonator.)

But the one thing that consistently got laughs was L3.

Mavimao said:

One big thing I appreciated about the film was Luke and Ben’s final battle.

It really solidified Yoda’s teaching that a Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense - never for attack.

I love that Rian Johnson managed to come up with a lightsaber battle in which lightsabers never even touch. It’s just Luke outthinking Ben.

It’s probably my second favorite lightsaber battle after ESB.

oojason said:

fmalover said:

Frank your Majesty said:

In my opinion, these two threads should have been created right after TLJ was released, when it became evident how polarising it is. This might have shortened some of the drawn out, fruitless arguments.

This said, I like how polarising TLJ is. It turns the comparably safe TFA on its head and takes the ST in a new direction. I’m curious for the final chapter.

I’m feeling pessimistic about Episode IX due to Abrams returning, as he’s a very play-it-safe kinda guy. The only movies where he was involved that I actually enjoyed are Armaggedon (he was one of the scriptwriters IIRC) and the very first Cloverfield movie which he produced. Other than that I consider him to be the popcorn guy’s Paul Thomas Anderson, in that both make totally insipid movies yet both are praised by their respective audiences as genius visionaries. If Chris Terrio was the sole scriptwriter I’d be more optimistic, but I’m sure Abrams will botch it all up as co-writer after all as he, alongside Lawrence Kasdan, scrapped Michael Arndt’s original script for TFA and then both proceeded to a copy-paste job.

For me, JJ is strange choice to wrap the Sequel Trilogy up - in my mind he seems more suited to creative ideas and intriguing plots and devices to draw the viewer at the start of a project - rather than finishing one. Hopefully he’ll knock it out of the park - yet given where the current story is in the Trilogy - he has a lot to do and accomplish in the final film…

I agree, except he’s coming back around to a thing he already started. So he has a strong creative (and emotional) attachment to this story, and has surely been thinking a lot about it’s direction in the years since he left.

The story group doesn’t really force things in, there’ve been no examples of that that I can think of. They’re there for consultation and brainstorming.

Possessed said:

Yeah I mean I’ve publically disagreed more than once and that’s basically all callipso did. Although I did not contribute to the derailing of the thread in question.

Oh wait, Possessed can see this? My bad, delete me post pls

Why hasn’t Possessed been banned?

I like the idea of a TLJ deprecation thread, but I won’t accept one as legitimate until it’s years from now and I am the OP.

Hardcore Legend said:

DominicCobb said:

Hardcore Legend said:

Maul is only fan service if he isn’t setting up a future film.

That’s not how that works.

If Maul is there just bc he’s that guy from TPM-> fan service
If Maul is there bc he’s important to this off-shoot film series going forward->not fan service

It’s not just that he’s there, it’s how he’s there. A future film could potentially use him in a way that’s relevant to the story and the character that goes beyond servicing fan desire for more Maul, but there’s nothing about the story of Solo that requires his presence, let alone a 2 minute scene, completely irrelevant to the rest of the film and not necessary for future films, where he ignites his lightsaber(?), of all things.

I also don’t believe that because something is set up doesn’t make it fan service. There’s a good argument that set up is a subset of fan service. The Jabba is both fan service and set up, though thankfully in a way that doesn’t detract from the film, like Maul does.

Hardcore Legend said:

Maul is only fan service if he isn’t setting up a future film.

That’s not how that works.

Haarspalter said:

DominicCobb said:

dahmage said:

People only see fan service when they want to.

I actually agree with Mala about all the references that seemed fan servicey to me. But those things didn’t make it a bad film. It was a fun ride for the most part. But I certainly liked all the other recent star wars films more.

I’d say this film had considerably more fan service than Rogue One, though what there was tended to be integrated better (save that red guy, which is worse than anything in RO).

cough, cough

CGI Grand Moff Tarkin & CGI Princess Leia

Edited my post to clarify that I thought the fan service was mostly handled better in Solo, not Rogue One.

I certainly understand the mentality on this site for people to want movies to look like they originally did. Even with questionable references to “originally” aside though, for the most part I can live with a blu-ray with a slight modern regrade. Aliens looks great to me, honestly, even if I know it’s probably not accurate. DNR is of course a different issue. Always checking against the laserdisc transfers in every case seems pretty misguided, though obviously sometimes it’s helpful.

When it comes to modern films, the claim that “they added a blanket tint for the BD” is usually inaccurate, though I don’t begrudge people who want to do a regrade to their liking. Often the changes seem so slight as to make me wonder why they bothered, but power to them.

Of course we can all agree that the OT looks like absolute shit on blu-ray. No debate there.

dahmage said:

People only see fan service when they want to.

I actually agree with Mala about all the references that seemed fan servicey to me. But those things didn’t make it a bad film. It was a fun ride for the most part. But I certainly liked all the other recent star wars films more.

I’d say this film had considerably more fan service than Rogue One, though what there was in Solo tended to be integrated better (save that red guy, which is worse than anything in RO).

Some people get automatically annoyed at the mere reference of something, and some jizz their pants (as if a wink to the fans is inherently bad/good and there’s no nuance there or relevance to the execution). For me it entirely depends.

Great example would be “I have a really good feeling about this.” Friend I saw it with hated that line. But I personally loved it - reference aside, it was a funny thing thing for him to say in that particular moment and revealed a lot about his character. One of the barometers for me is, does this joke or whatever work if you don’t know it’s a reference? Most of the ones in this passed that test (“I hate you,” “I know” is another).

regularjoe said:

I am not thrilled to see Maul in this one and my inclination is snip-city, however, didn’t they say the actor playing Han is signed for two more movies? The only point of re-introducing Maul is to have him in a future movie, so going fanedit happy on that scene may backfire when he shows up again in Solo Part Two or Obi Wan part one comes out or where ever he pops up again.

You can have him pop up in future movies without the unnecessary set up in this one. Not missing anything.

Hardcore Legend said:

This film is tracking poorly. I wonder how much of that is bad PR, how much is TLJ carryover, how much is fatigue and how much is people just not caring about this film?

Worry what it will do to future stand-alone, let alone a SOLO sequel.

“Poorly” is a relative term.

I think it’s just reverting to a more normal blockbuster performance than SW is recently used to. The numbers are in line with the high end of average Marvel solo (heh) outings. Difference is with SW you had this pent up demand that made the first few movies upfront make a lot of money (Rogue One waaaay over performed), whereas Marvel slowly built up the demand.

Bigger reasons than the ones you mentioned would be massive competition, and a short window between the release of this and TLJ.

joefavs said:

Has anybody besides Mala said that they liked TLJ and hated Solo? I’m only seeing “liked both”, “hated TLJ but liked Solo”, and “hate everything, why am I even still here”.

Yep.

dahmage said:

I loved TLJ, but only liked Solo.

But you didn’t dislike it.

joefavs said:

Also, L3 is the best character and whether you were happy or sad to see her go is my new litmus test for whether we’re going to get along.

She’s definitely the best new character in the film. I want to say I prefer her to K2 but I feel like we don’t spend enough time with her for me to really be confident about that (really want to read Last Shot now).

If nothing else, she’s further proof that the droids in these films are consistently some of the best characters overall.

joefavs said:

Anyway, I’d like to see the “Boba Fett movie” actually turn out to be something like The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly, where he’s a major player but not the sole focus. There’d definitely be room for Alden’s Han and/or Donald’s Lando in something like that.

I agree. He’s actually tricky when you think about the logistics of making him the central character. Not many people are going to want to see him take off his helmet and have a deep, introspective character arc. The other thing too is who plays him? Considering these films have actually been pretty slavish to the PT era castings, I’m inclined to say Daniel Logan. But he doesn’t have very many credits to his name, which could raise some flags in regards to whether he should be leading a massive blockbuster film.

I could see it as more an ensemble bounty hunter film, with potentially an entirely new character being the actual POV.

Tobar said:

ZkinandBonez said:

And since Han and Fett have knew each other prior to ANH, they might bring back Alden Ehrenreich as well.

I keep hearing fans say this and state it as a matter of fact. That there’s some great rivalry between the two or whatever. But there’s no evidence of that at all in either ESB or ROTJ. Just going off the films alone it would seem Boba Fett was just doing the job he was hired to. Heck, and while it’s canonicity is questionable, his very first appearance clearly depicts Han as having no idea who Boba Fett is.

Yeah I don’t get that. Whether or not Han knew Boba Fett isn’t clear in the films.

ZkinandBonez said:

I find it amusing that they mentioned Teräs Käsi, considering how generally negative opinions are about that game(though I guess that might be part of the joke). (Did anyone else get the impression that the EU stuff might be Jon Kasdan’s work?)

Teräs Käsi as a martial art has spread out quite a bit into other projects since its initial introduction. Though it did get a laugh out of me in the theater. And yeah, I think all the EU stuff was Jon mixed with some consultation with the Story Group.

Jon seems to be something of an EU fan. It also seems like he (and Lord/Miller and the cast) did a lot of research via Wookieepedia, in addition to consultation with the story group. So it seems like a combination of things.

These spin-off movies 100% feel like live action Expanded Universe movies. I felt it after Rogue One, I definitely feel it now after Solo.