As poorly received as this movie was, I'm fairly surprised they haven't tried a director's cut.
Most of the rest of the series has gotten one.
Ok, having sat through this completely now, here are my thoughts:
The action scenes are great. Which is understandable considering the director's background. Really, I don't mind the dune buggy scene. It's a well placed action scene and it's fun.
Considering they didn't go LOOKING to interfere with the planet's population, and they were removing the advanced tech (B4) that didn't belong there, I don't see any conflict with the Prime Directive that most people bitch about. It's just a middle aged guy tooling around in his inappropriate vehicle.
I was wrong before, there IS an explanation about the age of Shinzon... and it's also the motivation for him wanting the Picard transfusion. I still don't like the clone thing (more on that later).
I HATE B4 and the death of Data, but I see little maneuvering room on that issue.
Talk talk talk, blah blah blah. Unfortunately, my ideas for what might fix the movie removes a lot of character development and introspection that are the hallmarks of Next Generation Trek. (You could also translate that as boring.)
OH and yes I now see the similarity to Wrath of Khan. Very much so. Villain fixated on hero, big space battle with hide and seek, Spock/Data sacrificing themselves for the greater good. Etc.
If nobody mentioned it, I might have missed it, but I don't think it smacks you in the face (much).
The clones...
That's the real problem here. Sure the movie is too dark and fake-ly edgy, but it's not a deal breaker. What goes wrong is not one but TWO clones. Data/B4, Picard/Shizon. It's forced and feels forced. It's contrived and walks around bare-assedly contrived saying look at my ass-y contrive-ed-ness.
One clone has to go in order to make the film work. B4 is a Trojan Horse for Shizon and the route used for Picard's rescue (the double reverse Trojan Horse with half-twist).
B4's removal means cutting the first action scene (slowing the film more), cutting Picard's capture and rescue (removing a big chunk of the film), and removing the hopeful notes of Data living on in B4 at the end.
On the other hand, Shinzon can be crazy and fixated on Picard without them being clones (SEE also: Khan). Picard struggle with his uniqueness is not developed enough to make the clone scenario interesting. Nurture vs. nature is all they left in, and it feels watered down. (Most importantly I see NO resemblence between the two actors.)
I need to figure out how to explain Shizon's degradation, but it would remove loads of painful exposition from the film and prevent the double-clone crapfest from being so painful.
I might just leave the messed up face thing unexplained with the understanding that it's because he toyed around with that funky radiation.
The deleted scenes: largely unnecessary. I did like the second "rape of Troy", but the footage on the 1-disc edition is really dark and grainy. It seems more interesting and makes her 'psych back' at the end seem more satisfying.
The other ending on the bridge is excellent. The seat-belt gag works well, and IIRC wasn't the 'call the captain by his first name' bit used in the original TNG series? (Can anyone let me know about this? It's really bugging me.)
Anyway, my ideal cut would be the removal of B4 and Data's death. Without reshooting the film, I just can't see that happening. The next best thing is removing the Picard/Shinzon clones. It would speed up the pace and lower the contrived-plot quotient considerably.
(I still need to find out if there is a difference in quality or content of the deleted scenes between the 2 different releases.)
Am I going ahead with an edit? I swore I was retired from doing true fan edits. Pending more details on what else is being worked on, I just may do this since it doesn't look that hard to pull off.
You know, I still have to re-watch the end. IIRC the B4 thing is unfortunately too entwined with the plot. (I still have to watch the end of Nemesis. I'm having a hard time sitting through it.)
While most people blame B4, the buggy ride and Data's death as the big flaws in the movie, I'm starting to think just making Shinzon into scary villian, not clone could be a big fix.
It's not important to the plot, just the character development. When I'm done watching, I may take a swing at this.
Is there any difference between the deleted scenes in the 1-disc edition and the 2-disc special edition?
I'd love to be able to remove Shinzon as Picard's clone altogether because I found the plot point forced and in plausable, a source of endless annoying exposition, and Shinzon looks nothing like Picard.
(It also doesn't make sense. If Shinzon was created as a clone to replace Picard on Enterprise, either A) Romulans have the ability to accelerate aging of clones, but failed to use it after going to the trouble of cloning him (?) or B) Can't accelerate the aging of clones, so Shinzon would never be old enough to actually replace Picard.)
It just doesn't work... like most of the movie I suppose.
Can anyone give details or possible locations for attaining the edits that are on FE.com? I do not have an account there and do not wish to ever open one again.
Bumping a fairly old thread here, but has anyone ever put together an edit of Nemesis?
I found a YouTube trailer for "Nemesis Revisited" a supposed upcoming fan edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCdAs0RKpVA
I can find no other evidence that such an edit exists or is in progress anywhere.
I'm rewatching Nemesis now for the first time since my original viewing years ago. My impression is currently that if all references to B-4 and Data's death were removed (and some shaving of exposition), this movie could be better.
I don't hate the look/feel of the movie. It's different, and that makes it stand out from the other films. I don't see the similarities to Wrath of Khan everyone purports to be present, but that doesn't bother either me because WoK is awesome (even if this isn't).
(Edited for clarity.)
Site rules prevent direct linking of any content. Sorry dogstar.
"I have a bad feeling about this."
You know because he looks like Ewan McGregor, and he's all on a transporter and... oh never mind.
Has anyone undertaken a preservation of the George Burns/Brooke Shields movie “Just You and Me Kid”?
A bit of a classic and from what I understand never on DVD and possibly never on VHS.
I have an old TV broadcast on VHS, but I’m hoping there is a better source that someone perhaps has worked with.
You probably could have set your minimum bitrate much lower to save space. 3k seems awfully high.
What is your deinterlace method? Is the telecine pattern changing? What software?
Ok, no opinions on the matter. Interesting.
Just like NTSC Video is true 29.97i, PAL has an equivalent. It consists of 50 unique fields interlaced together.
My current favorite conversion script for this type of content:
mpeg2source("PAL.d2v")
loadCPlugin("yadif.dll")yadif(mode=1) # Smart bob mode doubles framerate (using interpolation and masking) (50fps)
Spline36Resize(720,480)#extrapolate new frames (true in-between frames, NOT blended) (59.94fps)
super = MSuper(pel=2)
backward_vec = MAnalyse(super, isb = true)
forward_vec = MAnalyse(super, isb = false)
MFlowFps(super, backward_vec, forward_vec, num=60000, den=1001, ml=100)#reinterlace (29.97fps)
AssumeTFF()
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()
converttoyuy2(interlaced=true)
I'm working on a project that uses different sources. Some are 25i and one is 25p. (My final DVD will be NTSC).
While I use a script that provide good quality 25p to 29.97i conversion, I want to know if it is necessary.
25p content is best converted to NTSC by using 25 to 29.97 pulldown. Womble is capable of editing and combining 25p with pulldown and 29.97i content.
My question is: is it the RIGHT thing to do? Variable frame rates (VFR) are acceptable for DVD. 25p content looks better and uses less bitrate if you use pulldown.
It's probably a more philosophical than technical question. I just feel mixing types is sloppy.
Is there a right or wrong answer?
One more thought. IIRC you intend to release this as a DVD9. You should see if encoding with one-pass variable with a q of 1 looks good to you.
It's pretty much the best picture you can get if bitrate isn't an issue. Your output should be virtually indistinguishable from the source.
CompMovieGuy: The phrase "diminishing returns" does not mean diminishing quality. It just means you are spending more and gaining less.
While it may improve the quality slightly by doing more passes, there is just a point where the improvements per pass are next to nothing.
I would not bother with more than 3-4 unless you are using a particularly low bitrate or trying to squeeze a lot onto one disc.
Frankly, I'm a fan of the one-pass vbr with prediction since your quantization is constant... but that's another conversation.
According to Doom9 you have diminishing returns with CCE. 3-5 is recommended.
More than 5 is pretty much a waste of time.
Btw, thanks for the link for the LogoTools. I've been using XLogo, which is dated and a bit hamfisted, but I THOUGHT about the only one around.
I know there’s something wrong with my fondness for Riverdance and it probably kills what little cool cred I might have ever had.
Still, I’m considering a fan edit and I wanted to describe it in the event that someone else might be remotely interested or have suggestions.
The DVD release that was called either Best of Riverdance, Riverdance 10th Anniversary or Jubilee Edition was a real disappointment to many people. Rather than deciding which performances were best, they chose to chop up performances and cut back and forth between them.
It has some pluses though including the first DVD transfer of numbers from the original Dublin show, and Geneva in an anamorphic format (R1 was letterboxed, but other countries got 16x9).
This is my current notes and ideas.
Chapter - Name (Performance Location): Notes
0 - Introduction (Dublin): Various background info on Riverdance includes a clip of the Eurovision performance. I have a very good quality VHS2DVDrip that I’d like to use to insert the entire performance. I don’t know of any other way to see it.
1 - Reel Around The Sun (Dublin): Untouched
2 - Hearts Cry (NY): Untouched
3 - Countess Cathleen (Mixed): I’m thinking the NY performance since I just like the NY show better than Geneva… and of course Jean Butler.
4 - Caoineadh Chu Chulainn (Dublin): Untouched
5 - Thunderstorm (NY): Untouched
6 - Shivna (Geneva): The introduction is cut so I’d add that back.
7 - Firedance (Dublin): Untouched
8 - Slip Into Spring (NY): Untouched
9 - Riverdance (Mixed): While I actually like Flatley, Colin Dunne is absolutely short changed on this release. Also, using the NY performance means not having to use a VHSRip
10 - American Wake (Geneva): Untouched
11 - Lift The Wings (Mixed): Confusing how this switches between a soloist and then 2 different duets. I’ll probably replace it with the NY version which is nice. It is sort of a shame to lose Aine Ui Cheallaigh though.
12 - Heal Their Hearts (Geneva) / Freedom (Dublin): The ending of HtH is cut as is the beginning of Freedom. I’d use the full performance of both.
13 - Trading Taps (NY): Untouched (the final bit is slightly cut. I’ll look again to see if it needs fixing).
13 1/2 - Morning In Macedonia (Missing): This number was in both the original Dublin and the Geneva performances. The Geneva version seems to be extended and is visually more interesting… probably use that one.
14 - Russian Dervish (Mixed): Same as Countess Cathleen. I should probably go with the Geneva release but probably use NY. Have to compare.
14 1/2 - Andalucia (Missing): Another number not in the NY show and absent from the DVD. For Dublin this would actually be around #13 1/4, but this is where the Geneva performance has it. Maria Pages is again amazing in the Dublin show. Her performance was only available on the European PAL VHS release though. I have a soft but clean quality DivX of it, but the Geneva dancer would be a better decision for video quality reasons.
15 - Ri Ra (Oscail an Doras) (Geneva): They cut a piece out of the middle. That needs to be fixed.
15 1/2 - Hearbeat of the World (Missing): AFAIK only in the New York show. Maria Pages dancing again.
16 - Slow Airs and Tunes (Geneva/NY): Not really a mix since SA&T starts with a solo performance not in any other show and then turns into the Homecoming number. I’d leave this alone.
17 - Home and the Heartland (NY): Untouched
18 - Finale/Riverdance International (Dublin): Untouched
19 - Bows/Medley (Mixed): I think this should be left alone since it’s not really a performance, but everyone from each of the shows getting credit for their work. It kind of works.
From the Dublin Euro VHS-- missing and possibly won’t be added:
Harlem to Hollywood: This was an early (and much duller) version of trading taps. I don’t see a reason to use it.
Hope To The Suffering: More from the gospel choir… ok maybe I’ll use it. Still it’s a VHS2DivX source.
Flute Solo with Michael Flately: It doesn’t suck but I always have the feeling this number was put in for his ego. VHS2DivX source and I suppose a possibility.
The last 2 would go somewhere between #'s 14 and 17 if used.
Feel free to mock this thread. 😃
Ok, time to eat a big hunk o' crow.
I'll be the first to admit that the celltime recalculations always made my brains hurt, but working with them today I realized that my math was completely wrong.
For Case 1 video (the most common) you multiply by a factor of 1.25. I had wrongly assumed that this was true for most of the other cases. After playing around with some files today it turns out Case 1 is the exception. Cases 2-6 need a factor of 1.2 (I think).
I've never noticed my error before now because by and large cases 2-6 occur in trailers and stuff where there are few if any chapters and the content is short enough that it isn't a large enough discrepancy.
Now I may still be completely wrong and if anyone has a firmer grasp on this please chime in. For now I recommend you check that the chapters are in the right locations after conversion.
Edit: Or not. I'm really up against it here and I'm hoping the Doom9 guys can thrash it out.
The problem is I'm seeing a several second discrepancy now in the chapter locations and runtime (even though the audio syncs).
Something very odd is going on that I mean to find out about.
THIS ONLY applies to cases where you are using 25 to 29.97 pulldown.
Edit 2: Ok, or NOT. Here's the deal, case 1 which you are essentially using 23.976 to 29.97 pulldown is a multiplier of 1.25. ALL OTHER cases require a multiplier of 1.1988.
The guide and spreadsheets have been updated accordingly.
Hmm. I had some problems with NuMenu4U tonight... but then again I always do. It's a pretty screwy program, but I've found nothing else that does the same thing.
First, I had to reauthor the disc with DVDRemakePro before it would successfully recode the menus... and even then I found that the audio was sped up to a comical pitch after conversion.
I don't know if it was a default setting I changed or not. It converted the menus from 25 to 29.97 by using AssumeFPS(29.97) and speeding up the audio to match.
DJ, if you get a chance could you tell me the settings you see when you select AviSynth (Menu)/Show Format Conversion Script Editor?
Just the duration buttons at the bottom. I had it set to "Keep all frames - Video length will be different and Audio will be adjusted".
The other option "Drop/Add Frames to keep Video/Audio length the same" worked better. I never noticed a problem before, but I definitely did tonight.
Lol. Good timing.
I've been working on a conversion today and making some tweaks to the guide while I was at it.
So far I've commented on DVDShrink stripping layerbreaks and P-UOPs. The 25i script has been updated (suggesting some alternate filters, methods and it previously reversed the field order (oops)).
Things I've noticed that still need to be updated:
A comment on letting BeLight adjust for audio delays (if you ripped with DVD Decrypter, BeLight will read the delay and automatically set itself to correct it).
Possibly a recalculation for stream delays to reflect the slowdown (though the difference would be microscopic for anything less than 1000ms).
Further info on what to do if there are subs at the top AND bottom of the screen (I described it to you in a PM. Appendix B still covers any problems there anyway.)
On the whole the changes are minor, wouldn't effect all discs and even if you didn't do any of it probably would have no noticeable effect on your finished DVD.
I suspect this guide will never be 100% done, but it's in very good condition right now. Give it a go. If you have any problems contact me.
All right. I stand corrected.
InfoDroid just tends to have a very unique vision of what to do with IJ films. But I suppose any idea may spawn other ideas.
Forget I said anything.
Edit: To clarify... my crazy comment is derived from my continued confusion over how many different KotCS projects are actually in the works and the differences between them since all editors are using the same thread.
Infodroid, please don't take this the wrong way (since everyone has their own tastes, and that's okay), but perhaps you should start your own thread.
The suggestions on this thread are largely for people that want to fix KotCS so it more resembles earlier Jones films.
Your previous ToD and LC edits have shown that you dislike the franchise in general. It's sort of incompatible with the spirit of this thread. I would be unhappy to see any of the people that were here earlier taking onboard any of your suggestions.
Again, this isn't meant to be an attack, I'm sure there's people that like your Indiana Jones edits, but I am not one of them.
But then again I feel last Crusade is better than Raiders... so what do I know.
TMBTM's idea doesn't sound bad.
The skeletons start spinning, beams shoot from them into Spalko, she starts receiving images and then she melts, explodes, or bleeds from her orifices.
I'm thinking, instead of newsreel footage, how about lots of random disturbing images of death, decay, disease, distruction, etc. They could be overlayed (transparent) Spalko standing there, or quick, rapid, epileptic siezure inducing intercuts.
While I agree that they should have gone for an artifact or something more embedded into the collective unconscious (a REAL City of Gold, the original Cross, the Fate of Atlantis, the Infernal Machine, proof aliens built the pyrmaids, the last lightsaber (it did happen a LONG time ago)...), the mythology of 13 crystal skulls was not invented for Indy. It's just more obscure.
I figured that all the knowledge of an interdimensional race is more than a human being's brain can handle.
I think something more simple like blood coming out of her ears and nose then just collapsing or something would convey that better than a fireball. Maybe accompanied by a wooshing cacophony of overlapping sounds like it's all being crammed in her head.
dark_jedi said:focuspuller said:When this gets put back up is it going to be Anamorphic?
FF said that is the plan,and I am sure it will be,I am helping him as much as I can.
Will it be a crop and upscale or does the source have the added resolution.
I just got to sit down and enjoy this tonight.
It looks and sounds great (better than a lot of commercial discs).
Excellent work. Thanks for putting in the work CompMovieGuy.
Btw, for those using it, here is an updated subtitle file. A large part of the dialog during the credits was missing before.