The only really good things to come out of the EU are PC games and mods. Namely X-wing, Tie-Fighter and the Thrawn’s Revenge mod for FoC
This will end well
This looks absolutely phenomenal…
Could you imagine Carrie Fisher script-doctoring the supposed romance scenes?
Didn’t she do some re-writing on the scripts as a favor? You could only do so much I suppose, with everyone else telling George how wonderful he is. Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman are no Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher either.
Must not have done that much. It’s crazy how bad some of the lines are that made it in:
“I think it would be wise for you to take advantage of my knowledge in this instance”
I mean seriously - WTF?
The prequels definitely tried some interesting things (watch the History doc “The Legacy Revealed” if you haven’t) and there were a lot of really compelling ideas bubbling under the surface. Ultimately, though, sometimes what they were trying to do can’t overcome how they were doing it. Even if you have a good idea, if you can’t effectively tell it, then the idea might as well be moot. Remember the phrase “a good story, well told.” George Lucas is undoubtedly a visionary but ultimately his skills as a filmmaker were somewhat lacking.
I’ve long felt that the issues with the PT were almost all in the execution. A better director and some script-doctoring could have produced some much better films
Having to sit through the prequels after the cliffhanger in Empire… now that’s something you need hospital drugs for.
I definitely loaded up on the painkillers near the end of TESB 😃
Heres a little list
The New Sandcrawler
That Aurebesh replaced English
R2’s color correction, Blue R2 not Black R2
Oolas Raincore Pit extension
Removal of the Cardboard Cutouts in ANH and replacing with actual people (BEST CHANGE)
Better Lightsaber Effects
Blast Doors
Biggs DarklighterNow i love that we have the Despecialized Edition, But i wish we had a Harmys Special Edition with the Good things that were added/fixed.
You sound like you’d like kk650’s semi-specialized editions… they are absolutely fantastic
I’d be open to presenting the story thus far for a newcomer as:
Rogue One, 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6, 7
I had my appendix out a few weeks ago and had a couple of days in bed to kill… so I tried that order and it actually worked pretty well (granted I slept through some of TPM and most of AOTC… lol).
For a new viewer I’d probably go with release order (although I do know a couple of people who’s first SW film was Rogue One and they really enjoyed it and had no problem following it).
RO/ANH actually works quite well if viewed as one big movie as the force is slowly introduced in a cool mysterious way. Chirrut isn’t a bad character to give you your first hints of the force and Obi-Wan’s descriptions of Vader in ANH carry even more weight after seeing him as the terror he is in Rogue One
Watch the 2 hours “Clone Wars” cartoon, it depicts Anakin exactly the way Ben does in ANH.
If you are referring to the Clone Wars Micro-Series I would agree. That is IMO the best thing to emerge out of all the prequel material. It’s IMO much better than the Clone Wars TV Series.
As to the OP - I think anyone who is a Star Wars fan should probably watch them at least once…although for a first time watcher I’d argue that release order is mandatory.
If you want to watch the saga all the way through for whatever reason I to think the machete order is the best (although I’d probably now go RO-ANH-TESB-TPM-AOTC-ROTS-ROTJ-TFA)
ANH - I honestly don’t remember… pretty sure it was a Betamax tape at a friends house (I was a bit too young - born in 1976) to see it in the theater)
TESB - Saw in the theater with my dad, might be the first movie (was one of the first) I ever saw in a theater
ROTJ - Saw in the theater; I still remember what a huge deal it was. They were selling T-shirts and other ROTJ stuff outside the theater.
TPM - Saw it in the theater
AOTC - I think I waited for DVD (might have seen in theater but don’t remember)
ROTS - I’m pretty sure I waited for DVD (might have seen in theater but don’t remember)
I was so excited for TPM that I can remember vividly seeing it in the theater (and in fact the first viewing was pretty enjoyable; I hadn’t seen any new SW films since 1983!)… sadly the film didn’t hold up for me and I don’t really even remember the first time I saw AOTC and ROTS (pretty sure it was on DVD, but I might have gone to the theater for AOTC).
TFA - Saw in the theater with my oldest daughter in her Rey T-shirt (She was 6). Awesome experience.
Rogue One - Saw it in the theater with both my daughters (7 and 4). My 4 year old actually sat through the whole thing and my 7 year old loved it. Another awesome experience (there’s nothing like seeing a new SW film with your kid; the excitement and wonder is contagious)
There’s a lot of good talent behind this film… but man, this seems like a pretty risky film. I can think of a lot more ways it could go wrong than I can think of ways it could go right.
Then again, I didn’t have huge expectations for Rogue One and I was blown away.
Overall I’d like to see more new stories with Anthologies instead of exploring the backstory of a bunch of OT characters. There’s a lot of risk of de-mystifying characters in a bad way (See PT for a zillion examples of this)
It’s hard for me to rank the soundtracks, because unlike the films the quality is pretty damn consistently high.
Still - ANH and TESB are almost certainly #1 and #2 in some order… I’d probably put ANH first just because it was #1 and that movie might actually owe a decent amount of its success to the soundtrack.
I think the PT soundtracks (especially ROTS) are somewhat underrated here (although I would agree that AOTC is probably the worst soundtrack, although unlike the film the soundtrack is still very good). Just imagine how much more awful those films would be without William’s brilliant work
I also think the Rogue One soundtrack is very underrated… there been a decent amount of “It’s not John Williams so it’s obviously worse” when I don’t think that’s the case. In fact the ending of Rogue One with “your father would be proud” is some of the best music ever in a SW film.
Overall I think all the soundtracks are at least very good and many are great/fantastic.
What part of Shady Space UPS invading a planet for a monopoly on that planet except they may or may not already have and also this has something to do with the rise of the Empire and wait, what?
Yeah - I mean why were the blockading the planet in the first place… something about space taxes?
They apparently felt the blockade was legal “as you know our blockade is perfectly legal” - but again what do they get out of it?
It’s also implied that the blockade was a cover for invasion… but the Trade Federation clearly didn’t want anyone to know about said invasion (as they denied it in the Senate… .apparently no one took a video of the invasion with their space phone and put it up on space youtube). But again, I’m not sure what they get out of invading Naboo? Does this somehow help them resolve some dispute over taxation? But wait, they also spent a bunch of time trying to get Padme to sign a treaty legitimizing their invasion and occupation… ok, but again; what do they get out of this? Are they just looting the planet or something?
They really don’t ever explain the motivations of the Trade Federation (other than doing what Sidious tells them to for “reasons”) in the films.
Another one - why in the world would Padme suspect Dooku was the person who wanted her killed in AOTC? Why would she ever think the separatist leader would want to kill one of the main senators opposed to creating an army?
Also - who the hell is Sifo-Dyas? How in the world did he not only order a giant army (apparently including a fleet of landing ships, walkers and other equipment) without anyone finding out… and how could he possibly pay for it?
Are the Kaminoans like a mail order army service who will give anyone financing?
They kind of threw Sifo-Dyas out there and then just never followed up on it… and then the Jedi were like “well, let’s just use this army supposedly ordered by us that no one has ever heard of and not worry about where it came from”
I thought the purpose of the treaty was not to erase the invasion but to have it not classified as an “invasion”?
Yeah - you might be right. It still doesn’t make any sense! Making the invasion legal would not result in the no confidence vote.
Star Wars was a worldwide success back in the day. So much so, it was still playing in some countries as ESB was being made, and an international re-release strategy was being planned.
Well - the original Star Wars is a fairly unique event in cinema and modern pop culture history. It totally caught lightning in a bottle. I’m not even sure there are any other modern films you can compare it to… something like the Beatles might be a better comparison
I think the international market has radically changed since that time as well. It’s certainly vastly larger relative to the domestic market. I don’t think a lot of US films were being shown in China in the 70s and early 80s 😃
My Star Wars growing up were Betamax recordings of HBO broadcasts that my Grandparents did for me.
My Star Wars growing up was Kenner action figures, vehicles and playsets.
My Star Wars growing up were mediocure Atari games and the pretty cool wireframe arcade game (where you shot the fireballs)
When I got a little bit older My Stars included X-wing and Tie-Fighter; to this day these are 2 of the best video games every made.
I’d be shocked if Disney hasn’t already started work (if not completed much of it) when it comes to doing high quality scans/restoration of anything that came with the purchase. It would simply be idiotic to pay 4 billion dollars for the franchise and then not make it a priority to preserve the most valuable piece of it in the highest quality non-degrading format that they can.
I would be surprised to see any new releases of the OT/PT until 2020. Why bother doing it now when they have to split so much more of the money with Fox? It makes no sense. Once they have the rights back (for everything except ANH) it makes a ton of sense for them to put out new high quality editions… and I think the ST being complete at that point gives them the perfect opportunity to cash in on a high quality definitive set of all 9+ films (depending on whether they include the anthologies)
RO did poorly in China this weekend and its overseas BO receipts have been below expectation. Obviously it did quite well in the U.S.
TFA set an opening weekend record in China last year, but BO collapsed there in Week 2.
Looks like the Disney movies are fleecing people out of nostalgia dollars, while at least in China where the people in general have no connection to the OT, the reception has not been good.
Yes, the Chinese are much more discerning; they love great films like the Fast and the Furious (pick a number) and Warcraft.
In any case Domestic revenue is worth quite a bit more to studios than much of the international take. As an example… it’s estimated that studies get about 50% of the box office revenue in the US, but only 25% in China. That’s largely why Rogue One made something like $100 million more in profit compared to Captain America Civil War.
For whatever reason SW films are by far the most popular franchise in the Anglosphere, but not outside of it.
Why is Sidious trying to get the Queen to sign the treaty? If she signs the treaty there’s no invasion and his plan to use the crisis to become chancellor falls apart!!! It DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE.
He’s calling her bluff because he knows she won’t, and therefore the crisis will happen and it covers his tracks i.e. “I tried in vain to stop it”.
That makes no sense for Sidious… no one outside of the Trade Federation guys is even aware he exists! I suppose it could make sense for Senator Palpatine to try and get her to do it… but Sidious is the one prodding the Trade Federation to get her to do it and no one knows that he’s actually Palpatine.
No, the Hobbit films have good performances, dialogue that doesn’t make you want to gouge your eyes out, and a competent director.
There are some good performances in the PT (personally I think the direction/script is 90% of the problem… Even Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor struggle in some scenes with the material they are given).
However, now that you mention it the Hobbit does have better dialogue…although like the PT many of the characters are poorly done and I just don’t care about most of them. I think the actor direction is better in the Hobbit, but the action scenes are just as stupid and boring as much of the PT. The Hobbit films also have the same tonal consistency issues that the PT has (particularly during the action sequences).
You are probably correct that the Hobbit films are somewhat better in execution, but I think they do share some of the same issues and honestly I find them horribly boring and sometimes harder to sit through than the PT (well other than AOTC, which is very, very hard to sit through). High level - the Hobbit films were very disappointing and the reason I was making the comparison is that they were made as prequels to the excellent LOTR films.
I don’t think many of us “hate” ROTJ. Personally I find it suffers in comparison to the first two in a number of ways:
_It feels like they’re going through the motions. Lucas seems to just want to get it all over with, and the actors (except Hamill) are just pay checking it
__It’s too juvenile and toy-oriented
_Han and Leia are given nothing meaningful to do
Fett dies embarrassingly
The ground battle on Endor is way too small and lacking in epic moments that the big finale should have
But it’s not a bad movie per se, it’s just bad compared with SW and Empire. Of course it’s Casablanca compared with the prequels.
I love ROTJ (and as a kid it was my favorite), but I largely agree with this critique.
I think ROTJ has the highest highs of the OT, but also the lowest lows. There’s also much more sloppy work in ROTJ and less attention to detail in parts. I mean you have possibly the best pre-digital effects sequence ever filmed (the Endor space battle) broken up by one of the worst effects shots in the entire saga (the SSD crashing into the death star).
Still other than the Ewoks and Endor battle I think most of the movie is great (Some of the Jabba palace stuff is a bit sloppy too, but I personally really enjoy Luke going HAM on everyone so I forgive some of it).
AOTC probably has the worst dialogue and acting in the entire saga.
The plot of the movie doesn’t actually make any sense if you sit down and think about it. Just one small example - Padme thinks Dooku was behind the attempt to kill her for some reason. WHY in the world would Padme think that considering she is opposed to creating an army to fight the separatists? I could list out dozens of other similar examples.
The love story isn’t nuanced, it’s ridiculous and creepy. Seriously, there have been unconventional romances in film that were well executed, but this was not one of them. The entire thing was very, very childishly written… like something from the mind of an immature teenager.
AOTC contains the droid factory scene - possibly the worst sequence in any Star Wars film ever.
The only part of AOTC that I enjoy at all is the Obi-Wan investigation plot and battle/chase of Jango
Compared to the OT (esp ANH/TESB) the Prequels are pretty bad (and part of this is because they are inconsistent with the OT).
Compared to movies in general I think the Prequels are mediocre. I another thread I recently remarked that I see them as kind of similar to the Hobbit movies in some ways.
Here’s the truth - I think the main reason that many people just don’t care that much for the prequels are the characters. If people cared about the characters more then they’d be much more willing to overlook other issues (I personally think the CGI thing is way overblown. I’ve seen plenty of great movies that use tons of CGI).
Here are (IMO) the main issues with the prequels:
Characters/Characterizations: The characters repeatedly behave in stupid and unbelievable ways just because the plot says they have to. Anakin’s turn is a great example of this. He has some bad dreams so he decides to murder some kids? It’s just silly. Padme’s behavior in ROTS is also completely absurd. Honestly the only character I gave a crap about by the end was Obi-Wan (and I think a lot of that was Ewan doing an awesome job despite the material he had to perform).
Tonal Inconsistency: This is my other HUGE issue with the prequels (and unfortunately it actually started with ROTJ, although it’s not as bad there). How can I take a scene seriously of the characters don’t? Throughout the PT we have our heroes treating the battle droids like jokes… which completely ruins any tension and makes me not care about the action. We also repeatedly have action scenes broken up by stupid/childish humor (c3PO on Geonosis being a great example of this… the buzz droids in ROTS being another). It’s bad because throughout the PT I’m repeatedly pulled out of the movie by jarring changes in tone. If you think about ROTJ this happens in some spots there also (mostly on Endor with the Ewoks, Chewie’s Tarzan yell, etc). Luckily ROTJ was not completely infected by this and the other two parts of the climax (space battle and throne room) strike a good consistent tone. I’m not saying a movie has to be completely serious… just more consistent. IMO TESB has a more serious tone than ANH, but both films work because the tone is farily consistent throughout (which is why some of the SE changes are bad… the Jabba insertion in ANH is horribly tonally inconsistent with the rest of the film). As a final word the PT seemed like it could never decide whether to take itself seriously or not and that includes a lot of the characters inside the film.
Plotting issues: I think this would be less of an issue if the characterizations were better and the tone more consistent (see TFA, which definitely has plot issues, as an example of this). AOTC in particular simply doesn’t make any sense. What’s funny is I’ve had several PT fans tell me I just don’t understand AOTC and need to think about it more… but that’s actually the problem. The problem isn’t that the movie is complicated… it’s that it doesn’t actually make sense when you DO think about it. There’s problems in some of the other films also… like in TPM why is Sidious trying to get the Queen to sign the treaty? If she signs the treaty there’s no invasion and his plan to use the crisis to become chancellor falls apart!!! It DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE.
They’re not mediocre. They’re bad.
I don’t think they are bad like say Jupiter Ascending or Iron Man 3.
But I suppose they are definitely Hobbit bad. Actually those Hobbit films are probably a good comparison.