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24-Apr-2005
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18-Dec-2012
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214

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Post
#198246
Topic
John William's Opinion on the Special Editions
Time
CB: These films are classics. Why tinker with them now?

JW: Well, this is a very interesting question. If the Star Wars Trilogy is a kind of classic, why would we want to tamper with it? I'm not particularly in favor of coloring all the old early films in black and white and might come down on the side of saying, leave things alone. That's one side of the argument.

The other side of it is true for music also. For example, every time Brahms went to hear one of his symphonies played, he would go in the audience and listen to the symphony, and the next day he would go to the Bibliotheque in Vienna, get the original score out and make changes—he never could leave it alone. Some sage said that a work of art is never finished, it's only abandoned. That's really true of all of us; it's like one of our children. You never finish trying to groom it; the child could be 60 years old, and you're still saying, "Well you look better if you dress this way."

So I think George is well within the predictable and understandable and probably correct area of an artist's prerogative to continue to try to want to improve what he's done. He complained that he didn't have the animatics 20 years ago and he wants to do it now. So I think on the one hand don't tamper with it, and on the other an artist can, should and, I think, must be excused for wanting to continue to improve his or her work. That's the two answers.

The third answer could be for those traditionalists who want the original the way it is—it's there. They don't have to go; they can listen to the Brahms without his latest edition. So they can see the original version and they can also see the new, updated George Lucas wish-list for his work.



I thought the most interesting quote was, "I'm not particularly in favor of coloring all the old early films in black and white and might come down on the side of saying, leave things alone." Along with his rationalization of Lucas' behavior by saying that people have both versions to watch. Obviously this interview was done before Luacs starting suppressing the OOT.

The whole interview's here: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/features/williams.asp

Thoughts?
Post
#195512
Topic
Idea: Torn Curtain - a fan edit?
Time
Yes- a few original Bernard Hermann recordings were completed before he was fired. Then, there was a second, complete recording. Then, there was a third recording by Joel McNeely (Torn Curtain: The Unused Score). I have never heard the two earlier recordings, though, and I think they're OOP.

EDIT: Yeah, I just checked, and the second Bernstein recording wasn't even released on CD, just LP or cassette.
Post
#183458
Topic
Info Wanted: The Phantom Editor and Ep. III Question!
Time
A forum member that doesn't want his name advertised started a review of the Phantom Edit II but never finished it. After a request, I got an incomplete list, but alot of the changes are listed:


“Attack of the Phantom”- Episode 2.1 by Mike Nichols, AKA “The Phantom Editor”

Specifications

-Single layer- 4.10 GB
-Running time: 104 minutes
-Anamorphic widescreen
-5.1 Dolby Digital sound
-Selectable audio commentary by Mike Nichols in Dolby 2.0 stereo
-Selectable extended media pop-ups
-An option to view the Yoda/Dooku confrontation without the lightning/lightsaber scenes
-Funny interactive menus
-Chapter stops appear directly before each extended media pop-up
-Comes with CD case art in a bonus “Cover” folder
-3 Easter Eggs all grouped into one “hidden” menu


The disc begins with the following message:

“This DVD is for experimental purposes and not intended for retail sale, duplication, or distribution.”

Then, the main menu starts out like the official DVDs, with the main title and the moving Star Wars logo. But this flickers out and we go to Mace and Yoda sitting in their chambers watching a 2D hologram as Anakin says “I don’t like sand.” It flickers out, Mace and Yoda look at each other, and the main menu buttons appear. These are “Play”, “Extras”, and “Info”. The extras option takes you to a screen where you can choose whether to hear the film with Nichols’ commentary or not. If you select yes, then you are taken to another screen, at which point you can select pop ups throughout the movie. Selecting these means that throughout the film, little purple logos will pop up, and if you press “Enter” when they appear, then you will be treated to extra video content.

Easter Eggs: Three funny video clips are included.


CHANGES (I may have missed some minor cuts or frame cuts here and there, but I’ve written all that I caught)…

-Film begins with a workprint style countdown. Then, the logos begin.

-A new opening crawl “Episode 2.1- Attack of the Phantom” is not plot related and instead explains Nichol’s purpose in editing the movie and apologizes to anyone offended. It ends with his email address (thephantomeditor@hotmail.com)

-In the Coruscant landing, some sounds have been moved solely to the rear surround speakers.

-Typho’s lines have been removed, eliminated what he calls the “Friday the 13th moment.” Upon selecting the commentary pop-up, he explains this more, showing some clips from the Friday the 13th films.

-Subtitles appear in the lower black bar and seem to be burned in.

-Yoda’s line “Seeing you alive brings warm feelings to my heart” is deleted.

-B. Organa’s line “Seeing you alive brings warm feelings to my heart” is deleted.

-Mace’s line “That’s possible…” etc. has been removed. (Palpatine: …friend, like Master Kenobi. Close-up of Padme. “Do it for me, milady” etc.)

-Obi-Wan/Anakin’s conversation on the elevator has been edited to remove “I haven’t felt you this tense…” all the way through the line “You’re sweating”, removing the Gundark nest dialogue.

-Jar-Jar’s walking shot and his greeting are cut. In fact, all of his lines are cut in this scene.

-Padme’s line, “Annie, you’ll always be that little boy I knew on Tatooine,” is removed. She now only smiles.

-Some of the argument between Anakin and Obi-Wan is cut, starting with deletion of “We will not go through this exercise again” and ending with “Investigation is implied in our mandate.” So what we DO have is “…in the interest of protecting her, Master, of course.” Close-up of Padme. “We will do exactly as the council has instructed…”

-Obi-Wan and Typho walk off camera and Jar-Jar and Anakin remain. Jar-Jar is silent. Obi-Wan has been rotoscoped into the frame so that he walks back into the left of frame, moving in the right direction and at the right speed

-Dialogue has been deleted. The scene now runs as follows: Anakin: “She hardly even recognized me, Jar-Jar. She’s forgotten me completely.” Obi-Wan: “You’re focusing on the negative…”etc.

-The Coruscant speeder chase has been re-edited and shortened considerably. The “Jedi poodoo” aliens are removed, as is the “What the…” alien. Obi-Wan no longer bumps into the building. The CG shot of Anakin backing up and taking off in his speeder is cut. A couple more shots of Obi-Wan, and then Zam shows up. Shot of Zam climbing into speeder is shortened. Obi-Wan says “What took you so long” as he’s climbing into the speeder. Anakin’s line has been shortened to “I couldn’t find the speeder that I really liked.” Obi-Wan: “There he is.” Cuts to close-up of Zam, then a shot of her ship pulling up. She goes into the tunnel, the Jedi’s speeder zips by, and then there’s a shot of them turning around and flying in the distance. Suddenly, we cut to the streets as we see Zam run into the club.

-After Zam runs in, the Jedi’s speeder lands. The landing shot is flipped so that the action is viewed from the same side.

-After a couple assorted running shots, Obi-Wan finds Anakin. After Anakin’s line, Obi-Wan says: “Patience. Use the force. Think.” CUT. Anakin: “I try, master.”

-Ambient noise in the nightclub has been moved to the rear surround speakers.

-When Zam is hit by the dart and shriveling up, instead of her former gibberish, she says, “Kamino system.” However, sound effects of her shriveling up and hitting the ground are now missing.

-The Jedi Council scene now ends with Mace’s line, “Travel as refugees.” The two Jedi then walk out.

-After the scene with Anakin and Palpatine, there’s a soft horizontal wipe to the apartment exterior. The Obi-Wan/Mace/Yoda scene is cut.

-The handing over of power to Jar-Jar now goes as follows—Padme: I’m taking an extended leave of absence. It will be your responsibility to take my place in the Senate. Jar-Jar: Of course, milady.

-Conversation in the Coruscant apartment…Anakin: Master Obi-Wan manages not to see it. CUT. Padme: All mentors…” etc.

-The diner scene with Dex is cut. A diagonal soft wipe takes us from Anakin/Padme’s ship to the Jedi library.
-A soft wipe left to right takes us from the Anakin/Padme “en route” sequence to the deleted Kenobi/Windu scene.

-Dialogue now ends with Windu’s line, “…he will choose the right path.” Obi-Wan’s line “Yes, Master” is cut. Scene ends with the wide shot of the ship, and a diagonal wipe takes us to the arrival on Naboo.

-The love theme plays over the establishing Naboo shots as before, but the scene that takes place as they exit the ship is cut. Instead, we cut to Padme’s house. “We’re here.”

-The dinner scene is included, but there’s a close-up of Anakin looking disappointed after Padme says “He’s not my boyfriend.” Also, in the kitchen, Sola’s line, “It’s obvious he has feelings for you” is cut.

-The number of clones is not revealed by Lama-Su. “You will be delighted to hear that we are on schedule.” CUT to Obi-Wan. “Please tell your master Sypho-Dias that his order will be met on time.”

-The kiss scene on Naboo is much improved by the deletion of all Anakin’s dialogue. They look at each other for a while (with at least one new shot incorporated), move closer and closer, and kiss. They don’t pull away as we transition to the next scene (bottom-to-top wipe).

-A hard cut takes us from the Lama-Su scene to the Kamino beast coming out of the water.


-The majority of the Jango/Obi-Wan fight on Kamino has been removed.

-The Jango/Obi-Wan space battle has been completely removed. Instead, the scene begins as Slave I enters the atmosphere of Geonosis. He lands. Then, Obi-Wan zips out of hyperspace, the droid beeps, and Kenobi says, “I think we’ve waited long enough.” He then enters the atmosphere and gets out of the ship.

-An extra chord is added at the beginning of the search montage

-Gunray’s line has been shortened to “I am not signing your treaty until I have her head.”

-All three CG creatures at Dooku’s meeting no longer have lines.

NOT FINISHED…

-End credits: a blue remote control has been added next to “Directed by George Lucas” and “Editor and Sound Designer- Ben Burtt” . His “Phantom Editor” logo with the scissors was added along with the “THX”, “Panavision”, “Arri”, and the other logos at the end of the credits. Darth Vader inhaling and exhaling has been added three times in a row at the end of the credits, somewhat louder than in Episode I (which was intentional). The credits fade out and the “Episode 2.1: Attack of the Phantom” logo appears. The blue remote fades in next to it. Then, after the film seems to be done, George Lucas comes on from the ’95 Faces interviews and the phantom editor again makes the irony of what he says and what he does clear. Another clip warning against the 2004 DVD’s.

Those were the changes. But I haven’t given my critical analysis of the film yet…

This edit is a very impressive achievement in terms of the effects shots that Nichols has created. He’s convincingly rotoscoped Obi-Wan into a shot, created at least one new shot on the balcony, removed smoke elements from a scene, and rotoscoped and removed lightsabers from shots to suit his purposes (and my purposes, actually- he’s saved me a good deal of work) He has also played with some sound effects and also the surrounds at times.

And some scenes are VERY much improved in this cut, particularly both of the kiss sequences and the handling of Yoda and Jar-Jar to make them seem less stupid. Well done. He’s also tried to edit the ending battle sequences so that they focus more on the characters, which is nice. At one point, he flips the shots so that it appears the gunships are going BACK to catch Dooku, after Yoda points out what’ll happen if Dooku escapes. C3PO stays on the ship and never enters the droid factory or the arena, and this is a VERY welcome change.

But I do have several problems with this edit. First of all, I disagree with his deletion of the Jango/Obi-Wan space battle and most of their fight on Kamino. He defends this, saying that Lucas put it in as an afterthought (to cover up for a storyline that wasn’t working). But if this is so, why didn’t he delete the much less rewarding elevator scene, which was added VERY late in post? I also disagree with the open-ended handling of the Zam and Anakin chase- how did they land and how was Anakin able to find her in that mess? It definitely feels as though things are missing. Another problem I have with this edit (and with other edits, to varying degrees) is the fact that you can usually always tell where an edit was made simply through the soundtrack. I’m listening to the mystery motif, and suddenly in the space of one or two seconds, it morphs into the middle of another cue. This doesn’t make sense, and at these points, I know, “Oh- they took that out and tried to cover it with a crossfade.” One particularly painful instance that comes to mind is the Droid Factory scene. Maybe I’m a little more critical than most, but there are some moments where it’s just so obvious that an edit was made because the music becomes incoherent. But I’ve had this problem with the other edits to some extent as well, so perhaps I’m the only one bothered.

Special features on this DVD- amazing. The commentary (recorded with a cheap mike hanging off an iron board, as he likes to point out) is nice, for the most part. Nichols has a habit of swearing a lot in the commentary (F-ing this, F-ing that), and he even compares Star Wars to a pornographic movie. So don’t do the commentary with your kids. He makes some very good points, though, particularly through the extra video material. All in all, it’s a very well-done DVD- in terms of special features, it’s the best out of all the SW edits so far.
Post
#178585
Topic
My letter to Entertainment Weekly, what do you guys think?
Time
I've rewritten it a bit for you. If you don't like it, you don't have to use it

To whom it may concern:

I am writing to you in an attempt to possibly generate a story about the growing majority of Star Wars fans who want the original versions of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi on DVD as seen in the 70's and 80's (as opposed to the 1997 & 2004 Special Editions).

I think it would be an incredible help for our cause if a story was published in an upcoming issue of your magazine. I love your magazine, because to me it represents everything that is 'in' (with today's movies, music, and television) that the mainstream public is concerned about.

Since 1997, when George Lucas released the Star Wars Special Edition, he has not only refused to release the original three movies out on DVD, but he has denied that they even exist in their original form. For a film like "Star Wars" that influenced so many millions of people and permeated our popular culture, this is a significant historical loss. Thousands of fans have gotten extremely frustrated, and the demand for the original Star Wars trilogy on the current high tech format has been growing and growing.

There is a website entitled "www.originaltrilogy.com" that contains over 80,000 signatures of Star Wars fans merely asking for the original versions to enjoy on DVD. All of these fans respect the fact that George Lucas has a right to change the movies (despite the fact that he only directed one of them), but many believe that both versions should be available on DVD so that every customer may be satisfied. It would be much appreciated by the fans who have supported Lucas since the seventies. At this time, there is one 2004 DVD release, in which there were even more awful changes than there were in the 1997 Special Edition. The only current release could easily be titled "Star Wars Special Edition, Part 2", and many fans are disgusted.

A huge number of people (myself included) would love it if you were able to do a story about the history of the Star Wars movies, and the fact that there are many different versions of the films as a result of Lucas' incessant tinkering with the films. You could discuss the fact that the original versions are no longer for sale, and that many fans have resorted to buying illegal bootlegs. People shouldn't have to buy bootlegs to enjoy the original version of one of the greatest films of all time.

If you are at all interested in doing a story on this, I can give you the name of the creator of the website entitled "www.originaltrilogy.com". He would be more than happy to give you all the information you might need for the story. I don't think it would be an anti-Lucas story as much as a pro-Star Wars story, and it would be appreciated by thousands of fans out there.

Thanks very much for your time,
Chris Olivo
colivo72@aol.com
Post
#176258
Topic
Info: Where do you draw the line?
Time
Not to be disrespectful, but.....

You're a jerk.

1. NOTHING is being sold here
2. NO copies are made of available retail discs
3. People receiving discs like "Blade Runner" already own the official disc. Moreover, if ANY new Blade Runner disc came out, they would buy it immediately. Legally. In between releases, how can swapping discs of a PUBLIC BROADCAST cause anyone to lose any money?
4. TECHNICALLY, under the law, all fan edits are illegal. If this was actually an ENFORCED law, then George Lucas would not have encouraged it. He would have condoned piracy. This is not an enforced law. It never has been. And if studios were really concerned about this, I suggest they head over to torrent sites and other places where REAL piracy is going on, as opposed to preserving films that nobody would ever see (in that version) otherwise.

Obviously, the colorized King Kong format conversion was a mistake and didn't adhere to the rules. Not my fault. Not most people's fault.

While that may very well be your opinion, the law says otherwise.

They're actually considering changing the policy this year. Don't get me wrong- I'd love to hear a nice stupid response to this, but maybe if you looked it up you could learn a fact or two before starting your next tirade.

Get a life.
Post
#168179
Topic
Info: Master Edition - the website for future Star Wars DVD changes
Time
Hey man: I looked at your site, and I think most of the oriiginal trilogy changes are pretty out there and not necessary. Your prequel ideas are interesting, though I know in the Episode II page you were talking about the lightsaber sound effects being bad and bad dialogue... There a guy on this forum that was doing a new version of Episode II called Shadow of the Dark Side, and I think it corrected most of those problems. He's redoing Anakin's voice, too.

Something like that type of project would probably be a better bet that trying to get lucas to change it, which is kind of impossible, IMO.
Post
#162324
Topic
Idea & Info Wanted: an NTSC version of Gkar's OT trilogy preservation?
Time

Hi- i was just curious if any of you have done a “reinventing wheel” NTSC version of the 97 special edition trilogy from the Gkar set (which is supposed to be almost as good as the 2004 DVDs). You could take the crawl and the subtitles from the US LD set, along with the US 5.1 surround sound track. I’m just wondering because I think it’d be a cool project and the SE is important to preserve too.

Post
#157343
Topic
Violence
Time
This is the first I've read about this, Ric. I feel so bad for you I don't know what to say. I've never experienced anything like that because I live in a small town and people treat each other more like human beings.

Just reading about this makes me sick. I'll pray for your family.

P.S. I know you said not to, but I really would get out of wherever you are in Brazil. If you moved up to where I am, I think you would have a totally different outlook on life.
Post
#149091
Topic
True story: high school Star Wars geek makes fool of himself in classroom
Time
I put a powerpoint for science class on my USB flash drive. Brought it to school and put it into the laptop, which was hooked up to a projector. The whole class is watching; teacher has his gradebook out. I’m not the greatest with those laptop mouses, but suddenly, I’m about to open the powerpoint file when Media Player pops up and starts playing the original movie credits for “Ewok Adventure” (which I had downloaded at the Preservation section). I think what may have happened is that without knowing it, I clicked the “Open files in Media Player” button on the F drive pop-up. Anyway, the kids laughed, but the science teacher said he didn’t want to see any more video clips of “giant wookiees.” Instead of apologizing and saying that I didn’t mean for it to happen, I kindly informed him that it was a giant hairy monster (because there were no Wookiees on Endor at the time).

In retrospect, this was pretty bad gradewise. But it’s funny in a sad kind of way. At least now 25 more people know that there are 2 versions of the Ewok movies, because I was able to explain this before the teacher stopped me.