Darth Venal

TheBoost said:

True.

But whether you dug "Battle of Heroes" in ANH:R or not (I'm of mixed feelings), at the very least objectiviely we can agree that the meaning of that music as part of a film score (echoing Anakin/Obi's first fight) is being intentionally echoed in its new use.

I can't think of any moment in ESB where the meaning of a motif from the PT would make dramatic sense.

Oh sure, of course I understand the meaning of it, but meaning is really secondary to whether it works stlyistically/tonally. I don't think it did. My criticism of that is in no way a criticism of Ady's intentions by putting it there.

It's probably fortunate that there's no moment in Empire that could be "improved" by the inclusion of or - god forbid - replacement of original with music from the prequels.

TheBoost said:

 

That being said, Adywan adding "Battle of the Heroes" in ANH carried with it emotional resonance because of the purpose of that piece of music (Anakin vs. Obi). But even if Adywan hadn't repeatedly stated there would be no PT music in ESB:R, I still can't think of any point that a PT theme could be added into ESB that would add to the film.

Well, that's also how some of us felt about putting PT music in A New Hope: Revisted, so I'm very happy he's not doing it for Empire: Revisited. And I'm with you, I think the music for the prequels at times is incredibly good, but my great objection to it being placed in the OT is not a judgment of its quality. It's a judgment of its suitability, and it doesn't work. It is stylistically and tonally completely different. The only two scores that come anywhere near being the same, and this is entirely deliberate, are Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace. Putting Leia's Theme into Episode III was an attempt support the bridge to Star Wars (A New Hope) and while it sounded wonderful, it didn't fit with the rest of the score for that movie. So while I vociferously object to PT music being added to the OT, it's not because it's all bad music. Far from it. I think Padme's Ruminations is the best scene/new score in Episode III (ironic that it's the one with no dialogue. hmm) but compare that piece with any piece from the rest of the saga, and it's totally different.

TheBoost said:

Does anyone have a copy of the soundtrack to the Ewok movies? I think it was only released on record, but there are some musical cues that might be helpful to expand and increase the seriousness of the mood in the ground battle of Endor.

Yes, some of us have those soundtracks. I've got them at 320kps MP3s. which isn't the greatest, but it's certainly okay and can be "upscaled" and restored to some extent (definitely useable for a fan edit).

What euphemism?

Yes, talking, if that's what you call it in your house.

Honestly! It's not glass.

It's transparent aluminum.

Hello, computer?

xhonzi said:

Ghost said:

The only way Luke on a speeder bike would make sense is if he and Obi-Wan have their conversation in Ben's hut.  Then from there have him ride a speeder bike across Tatooine.  With a lot of editing, that could be an ok possibilty.

 

But I would rather have a pretty CG scene of Luke flying in and across Tatooine.  Like Obi-Wan and Grevious did on Utapau in ROTS.  That would be much easier to do and alot more realistic.

 I realize I'm too late for this... but here-a-goes:

Why can't we just see Luke fit some kind of speeder-bike leather seat to R2-D2's dome and then show R2's repulsor jets fly him to Jabba's Palace?  Surely while he was looking for a place to stash his sabre, he would have noticed the jets!

And I know what you're thinking... Luke arrives much later than the droids.  So you would have to add Luke hiding in the shadows when the droids make their approach.  Maybe have his hand covering his mouth to stifle a giggle while he is hiding.

This is supposed to sarcastic, by the way.  But still- I can't get the image of Luke using R2-D2 as a make shift speeder out of my head.  Why have an X-Wing when your astromech droid can FLY?

That wouldn't work - you didn't even give Luke a cowboy hat.

Sheesh.

Ithilgore:

Films like Avatar are pushing CG forward and sowing seeds for CG to one day look fully convincing

First of all, I agree with all your post, but one point...

In all honesty, I don't think CG humans will ever work. There is no getting out of Uncanny Valley. I work in this part of the industry, and while some do think it's possible, eventually, I have to say that the majority do not. And nor would they want it to be.

There's an irony in the pursuit of ultimate realism with CG, that being: if your aim is to create a photorealistic human, why not just use a human? Some say "you can get it to do things a real person can't". Fine, then use it for CG doubling, stunts etc, like we already do. What you can't do is nuance a performance in a computer the way a real person behaves. We can probably create photo-realistic still images that could fool nearly anyone. But we are so far away from a realistic moving human, Uncanny Valley isn't the half of it.

Think of what it took just to recreate Yoda in CG. Everything that Frank Oz did live on set back in 1978/9 in a matter of hours and days took many months to replicate in a computer with far more man hours. And it was less convincing. And it was harder to achieve. So what's the point? CG augmentation is one thing, but CG Creation is another.

EyeShotFirst:

I really think that the model ships in the OT minus the garbage mattes, were more convincing than CGI.

I agree completely with that. And now that compositing of live action elements can be done without "traditional" matte lines, it can't look any more real than real. Realistic scale, of course, has to be achieved with models, but as for lighting etc, it cannot ever look more real.

By the way, don't get too excited about the CG in Avatar. I've seen about 40% of the CG for that movie (which equates to about 25% of the whole movie) and yes, it's good. But it's no historical leap forward.

Absolutely! And the reason? Well, it's not just the CG being good, it's that those CG characters are imbued with very strong emotional depth. They are victimised, subjected to violence, have relationships, friendships and they are made to suffer an incredible amount of fear. They are emotionally complex.

The result? We care about them. I can't say any other CG characters have ever elicited the same response from me. Not Gollum or King Kong, because they're not as accessible. But the "prawns", the father (Christopher) and his son, not them I cared about. Wonderful stuff.

Fantastic film.

HigHurtenflurst said:

Darth Venal said:

Ghost said:

I repeated the same thing because no one answered it.

It wouldn't break any pace.  That would add more emotion to Luke's failure.

 We are truly of different generations of film fandom if you still aren't getting this.

 The very best thing I've heard in a long time that highlights this gap is from "Spaced", a brilliant English comedy starring Simon Pegg of "Shaun of the Dead" fame.   Tim Bisley works in a collectibles shop, and an 8 year old wants to buy a Jar Jar doll.  He explodes:

"You are SO blind!  You so do NOT understand!  You weren't there at the beginning!  You don't know how good it was, how important!  This is it for you!  This jumped-up firework display of a toy advert!  People like you make me sick!  What's wrong with you?!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWDWl_nEcoY

Lots of Star Wars references like that...  He is so disapointed with TPM that there's a scene where he burns all his cherished SW merch on a funeral pyre in a re-enactment of ROTJ's burning Vader scene.  Very funny show, shame it only lasted 2 seasons.

I remember that, Spaced was pretty funny. The difference is, it's nothing to do with the problem here, and I was never blinded by the "perfection" of the original movies, either. I've never liked Return of the Jedi, and that has nothing to do with Ewoks. So, nice clip, but inaccurate comparison. I neither hate all modern films nor blindlingly love those I saw when I was a kid, so, you might think you just summed me and others of my generation up, but no, not really.

Ghost said:

I repeated the same thing because no one answered it.

It wouldn't break any pace.  That would add more emotion to Luke's failure.

 We are truly of different generations of film fandom if you still aren't getting this.

Darth Solo said:

Bossk? What point in time did all these races get titles out of curiosity?

Actually, even the star wars card backs may have an outside element of the EU, before wiki existed (a mix up at Kenner made 4LOM and Zuckarse named the wrong way around if i remember right - same head though).

Damn, i sound all negative lately.

Well, not that wiki has anything to do with anything, but there has always been what you call "EU" material widely known to fans, like the bounty hunter names and plenty of other things. But just because those names weren't stated in the film doesn't necessarily make them EU.

They were usually the names given to those characters when they were designed, not created for EU material. Same with the inhabitants of Jabba's Palace, all those creatures were named in the workshop during pre-production if they didn't have a name already.

What was the question?

Still would all Quarren be aligned with the Empire? There's no reason that has to be the case. I think a Quarren leader in the Rebel Alliance is feasible.

Ghost said:

but when Ady is coming out with "No! No! No!" it must be that someone just ordered a baloney special.

He reacted that way because he doesn't like the PT music.  I wasn't totally stupid for saying that.  Ive seen alot of other people say that adding new music would be good on other SW sites. 

This site should be here to give Ady alot of ideas (good or bad) and let him pick out the good ones.  Not just get shot down like you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Of course this site is for ideas, but I think it's clear some of us have no inclination to make the original trilogy anything like the prequels.

And even if one does like all the movies, why the hell would you want to homogenise them all into one style? The original trilogy are very unique movies, they are all different stylistically/aesthetically. They have different designs, very different scores, different overall aesthetics. Why try to break that down? What does that achieve? And don't say it makes them all flow together. They already do that through story and character. There's nothing to be gained by blurring the things that make them distinct, and a lot to be lost.

Ghost said:

Adywan, you are right about all of that.  That makes total sense.  I just see it in my head and it looks so good, but I wasn't being realistic.  Now that I think about it, I don't know what I was thinking. Can't wait 'til 2010.  This looks better than ANH.

 ...   ..-   -.-.   -.-     .-   ...   ...

Don't forget the apple next time.

And yeah, Ady is right about all that. I know I'm not the most patient person on the forum, but when Ady is coming out with "No! No! No!" it must be that someone just ordered a baloney special.

...-  .  .-.  -.--    --.  ---  ---  -..

Bingowings said:

I'm starting to think Darth Venal is either the Stig or the Slitherer because alot of his posts look like Morse Code.

 ...  ..-  -.-.  -.-    --  -.--    -.-.  ---  -.-.  -.-

Who are Stig and Slitherer?

.

That's weird, Luke does look wrong with that red sabre. Interesting...

District 9... now that is a nice film. A perfect example of how to integrate digital characters with live action. I found that movie pretty darn touching.

Please, I'm not being pigheaded, I just don't see any difference in what you said.

You listed flaws you consider "superficial and small scale" about the prequels, that's in your post. And I fundamentally disagree with that, as you can tell. That's all.

RoccondilRinon said:

Read it again then, DV. Notice that I never said I think them unimportant, YOU made that jump. Kindly stop insisting that I said something I didn't.

 You said that those flaws were superficial and small scale. Same difference. I think those flaws are totally critical, anything but superficial and "small scale" and as such, the prequels are not as easily rescued as you believe. Let's drop it if you don't wanna argue about it, but you did say those flaws in the prequels are superficial and small scale. I fundamentally disagree.

Nope, still not seeing it any different to how it reads.

I'd say "Their flaws are superficial and smaller-scale" is saying they're not very important in the scheme of things.

Forgive my abrupt response, I was just having trouble believing what I was reading.