Darth Lucas

The problem I have with Padme (just gonna refer to Anakin's wife as Padme for simplicity's sake) not playing a big role in the story is that there needs to be a strong female character to offset the almost too large as it is male character lineup.  Could you imagine Star Wars without Leia?  Harry Potter without Hermione?  Indiana Jones without... well any of his various women except Willie Scott?  It's a story necessity.  Especially if you're working off of Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey, which I am, as Joseph Campbell was a huge influence on Star Wars.  There needs to be a "godess" or "temptress," and yes, these archetypes don't have to be personified, but they really should be in the Star Wars universe, as it really is a fairytale in the simplest sense.

Now, here's something that's been on my mind.  How do you all think Padme should fit into all of this?  I've had a lot of pretty vague ideas.  Here are a few:

-She was married to Anakin before the events of Episode 1.  She was kidnapped by the Mandalorians (basically the stormtroopers of my prequels) to use as a slave.  Anakin rescues her during the adventure.

-She is a royal from Alderaan who has an affair with Anakin. (harder to work into the story, but one of the cooler ideas imo)

-Meets Obi-Wan and Anakin during adventure.  Love triangle between them a-la Luke and Han in OT.

-(very similar to TPM) She is a representative of the Queen of Alderaan instructed to accompany Obi-Wan on his journey.  (Not too fond of this one but I think I could make it work.)

What do you guys think is the best way to work her into the story?  Do you have other ideas?  Please share. 

Apart from the quests of Obi-Wan and Anakin, Episode II would focus mainly on the transition between Republic and Empire, and Episode III would focus mainly on the destruction of the Jedi.  My goal with this storyline wasn't to not spoil the reveal, but to give people an option to, if they choose, not spoil the reveal while still getting a fulfilling story.  I wan't to give people a lot of options when it comes to viewing order, something that I consider to be a big problem with the Lucas prequels is that there really isn't a definitive viewing order at all.  I would like to give people not one definite viewing order, but several that can all work equally well based on what they are looking for story-wise.  The idea for Anakin cutting down his troops after losing their trust actually comes from an idea Lucas had around the time of ROTJ, though I can't remember where I read it.   In terms of how characters get from one place to another, you're right to say my Episode I is similar to the Lucas prequel.  However, the overall plot and characters are so different that I don't think it will matter.

It would also be pretty simple in that situation, if demand was high, to provide two alternate versions of Episode III, the normal version, and one where the Vader reveal is taken out.

Slightly off the present course of conversation:  I think I've figured out a storyline where, if you prefer a more complete, whole story and don't mind having OT moments ruined, you can have that, but if you prefer to have those moments preserved, you can also be satisfied.  Here's how it would go down.  Episode I: Obi-Wan meets Anakin while on a dangerous mission.  Takes him as an apprentice at the end of movie.   Episode II:  Obi-Wan and Anakin are sent on different missions, separating for the first time since their meeting.  (not sure what either mission will be yet.)  While on his mission, Anakin becomes increasingly frustrated and angry that the soldiers put under his command do not take him seriously.  Eventually they become mutinous and he cuts them down.  Obi-Wan begins to hear tell of a Dark Jedi by the name of Darth Vader who has risen up and begun hunting down Jedi.  Eventually he discovers the horrible truth that the evil Darth Vader has murdered Anakin Skywalker.  In the end Obi-Wan confronts Vader (who wears some kind of mask to hide his true identity), but he gets away.  This is all set to the backdrop of Palpatine rising to power and manipulating the Senate into transforming the Republic into the Galactic Empire.    Now, if you would like the reveals of the OT preserved, you do not watch Episode III, but continue on to Episode IV, where you now have a good understanding of what happened before, but the shroud of mystery that surrounds Vader remains, if not then.... Episode III:  The Jedi have been exposed to mass genocide at the hands of Darth Vader and the Galactic Empire.  There are less than half the jedi left than there were before the dark times.  Obi-Wan, fueled by vengeance over the murder of his best friend, searches across the galaxy for the villainous Darth Vader.  At the end Obi-Wan and Darth Vader duel in a volcano, where Vader reveals to Obi-Wan the shocking truth.  He is Anakin Skywalker.  Eventually Obi-Wan knocks him into the volcano.  Presuming him dead, he leaves, grief stricken.  When Obi-Wan is gone Vader crawls his burned body out of the volcano, where he is rescued by Palpatine and put into the iconic suit and iron lung.  When the news that Vader survived reaches Obi-Wan and Yoda, all seems lost.  Until they discover that Anakin's wife (who has been pregnant since the end of Episode II) gave birth to twins, who have both survived.  The movie ends on a double edged tone.  Low due to the rise of the Empire, and high due to the survival of the twins, and that there is a new hope for the survival of the Jedi.   If you want the OT reveals preserved, but also want to see every movie, then you watch it in this order:  1,2,4,5,3,6.

I never thought of "You must confront Vader" as a right of passage.  I think Yoda just meant that Luke had to overcome his the fears and feelings that have been clouding his judgement before he could truly be a Jedi, and that Vader was a living embodiment of those fears and emotions.  By confronting Vader, he is confronting the conflict within himself, and only by doing so, can he truly be a Jedi.  It could also be interpreted in a less symbolic and more literal way by reasoning that Yoda meant that as long as Vader and the Emperor are in power, the Jedi would never rise again.  I prefer the metaphorical, symbolic interpretation, though.

Random idea sharing time.   I decided to watch the Star Wars trilogy the other day for inspiration/ideas and one of the things that struck me this time around was how Obi-Wan describes Jedi.  He said "I was once a Jedi Knight the same as your father."  Then in Empire he says "There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me."  Rather than just saying "Jedi"  he specifies "Knight"  or "Master"  This doesn't strike me as a difference in rank, more a difference in type. I look to Christianity to explain what I mean.  To me, Jedi Knights would be the equivalent of, well, knights.  Jedi Masters to me are the equivalent of monks, or priests.  They all belong to the same religion, but do different things.  I'm thinking of having the Jedi culture be quite similar to this.  Jedi Masters are priests and scholars, trying to uncover the secrets and mysteries of the Force.  The Knights use the Force to protect the Galaxy from evils.  It is the Masters' jobs to train the Knights.  The knights do not train each other.  This makes for an extremely unusual request when Obi-Wan asks to train Anakin.  They finally arrive at the Jedi Temple after their Episode I adventures.  Obi-Wan goes before the council of Masters to request Anakin be trained.  Yoda and the masters can express their unwillingness to train Anakin due to his fear and anger similarly to in TPM.  Obi-Wan then requests that he may train Anakin.  Yoda, after much deliberation, allows it, thinking that perhaps Anakin's unusual abilities may benefit from less than normal training.  This would be the first time a knight has trained another knight in the history of the Jedi Order.  "I thought I could instruct him as well as Yoda.  I was wrong."  We then end Episode I with some kind of Jedi initiation ceremony, whereby Anakin swears allegiance to the Jedi, and Obi-Wan gives him the name Skywalker.

To me, Obi-Wan's character arc is fully explained in the OT.  "You are reckless."  "So was I, if you remember."   Obi-Wan starts out as a kind of hot-headed jedi who lets his feelings get the better of him, similar to Luke running away from his training after getting the vision of Han and Leia.  He jumps into training Anakin without much thought because he is emotionally attached to Anakin and wants him to succeed, without thinking of the consequences.  Over the course of the story Obi-Wan shifts from the hot-headed young Jedi to the wise man we meet in ANH.  How exactly that happens.  Well I haven't completely worked that out yet.

If someone decides to actually take up this project, I would leave that up to them.  As much as I would love to go out and direct something like this, my busy life as a student would make it difficult to impossible.  I'll stick to writing for now and let someone else worry about how to make it look good.  XD  I would assume it would not result in a trip to Tunisia though, but then again, you never know.

Mrebo said:

I know you just want to make lots of money by selling Falcon toys! ;)

You got me.

NeverarGreat said:

 it could be that Anakin made the Kessel run in it during the Clone Wars, and nobody has ever beaten his time. 

This was my thinking as well, although not sure how I would work that in with the current storyline I'm working on.

To me, Mos Eisley has to play some kind of role in it.  In ANH Ben says "Mos Eisley space port.  You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy." and "Most of the best freighter pilots can be found here."  But it was also established that Ben couldn't get there on his ow.  He needed Luke to take him there in his speeder.  And once he arrived on Tatooine, he never left, so how did he know that you could find "the best freighter pilots" at the cantina? To me the only way he would know what Mos Eisley and the cantina was like in that amount of detail would be that he had been there years before.   Also, completely unrelated: I've been thinking about making Anakin's ship the Millenium Falcon.  Although, I'm not sure if that would be too "putting in references just because I can-ish."  In ANH Han says "You've never heard of the Millenium Falcon."  and it always seemed kind of tongue and cheek to me the way Ben says "Should I have?"  I don't know, I think it would be kind of cool.  What do you all think?

You see, I personally don't have an issue with Luke and Anakin's journeys beginning the same way.  I'm torn on the whole protagonist issue.  On the one hand, Obi-Wan as the protagonist would better lead into the OT without ruining the mystery of Vader, however Anakin as a protagonist just seems more interesting to me.  I've pretty much decided I'm going to do a re-write, and I'm thinking right now that they would both kind of share the role of protagonist, but then that was a big problem of the Lucas prequels.  There wasn't a clear protagonist.  So I'm torn.   The idea of it ending with the meeting of Obi-Wan and Anakin intrigues me.  It could be a good story without ruining any of the key moments of the OT.  But, at the same time I can't help but feel like we'd be missing a huge part of the overall story.  I mean, when it all comes down to it, you should be able to go from one chapter of the story to the next without feeling like you've missed anything of major importance.  To have Obi-Wan be this triumphant hero and then all of a sudden he's some old hermit on Tatooine and the Jedi are extinct and there's some kid named Luke and Obi-Wan's new friend Anakin is nowhere to be found.  To me it just seems like it would be too jarring and take you out of the story.  In my mind it should just be assumed that people are watching them in release order and that anyone watching in chronological order has already seen the OT.  It's an interesting idea that I won't completely dismiss yet, but I'm not 100% on it.

Basically, here's how I see the beginning of Episode I:  Obi-Wan, on some sort of mission vital to the cause of the first Clone War, crash lands on Tatooine.  Ship ruined, he goes to the nearby town of Mos Eisley and enters the Cantina to look for a pilot who will transport him.  He meets Willhuff Tarkin who introduces him to Anakin Lars, who, needing money, agrees to transport him.  He takes Obi-Wan back to the moisture farm, where Owen talks Anakin out of it.  "Why on earth would you transport a crazy Jedi on some damn fool-idealistic crusade?"  However, he agrees to let Obi-Wan take shelter there for the night, but tomorrow he must go back into town and make other arrangements.   Staring out at the binary sunset, Obi-Wan tells Anakin of the Jedi, how his real name is Ben Kenobi, and that Obi-Wan was the name given to him by his master, a wise, centuries-old Jedi Master called Yoda (only mentioned, never seen).  Inspired by tales of adventure beyond the dusty plains of Tatooine, he sneaks off in the middle of the night with the Jedi, leaving nothing but a note for Owen promising to return, meets up with Tarkin (his first mate) and gets in his awesome ship to be named at a later date, heading off to go on adventures and awesomeness, ultimately joining the Jedi Order, getting the name Skywalker, betraying the Jedi, and becoming Darth Vader.

As for Anakin's parentage, I always imagined that Anakin and Owens' parents had died in some accident and they were left to fend for themselves.  They bought a moisture farm and Anakin bought a ship and got into the spice trade.  "He was a navigator on a spice freighter." being not a total lie, just not the whole truth.  I always figured Vader just wouldn't go back to Tatooine because it's a place of pain for him, a reminder of who he was before he became Vader, which is what he wants to forget.

NeverarGreat said:

Nobody seems to recognize the name Skywalker in the OT. Even Leia, who knows the history of Obi-wan Kenobi, doesn't seem to understand the significance of Luke's name. Lando is totally ignorant of it as well, and he may have been around 20 years old at the time of Anakin's fall (though I think that the time of his fall should be pushed back at least ten to fifteen years in this rewrite). This seems to suggest that Skywalker was not a well-known name in the galaxy, or at least people didn't attach significance to it. I'm guessing that Anakin Skywalker is the name that his parents gave him, because I doubt that Anakin would be a name chosen by him as a Jedi title. Remember also that according to ANH, Anakin was not a Jedi when he left Obi-wan, so Obi-wan could not have given him any Jedi name.

Given that the Jedi themselves have slipped into myth, I think it would be safe to assume that the names of the Jedi themselves would also have fallen out of general knowledge.  Not to mention Vader himself would have wanted the name Anakin Skywalker to be eliminated from all knowledge.  And I'm not sure what you meant by Anakin not having been a Jedi when he left Obi-Wan.  Even though Darth Vader says "When I left you I was but the learner."  I don't think this negates the idea of him having a Jedi name.  Even if he wasn't considered a full Jedi at the time, he would still have been a member of the order.  Also, in ANH Obi-Wan, when telling Luke how his father died says, "A young Jedi named Darth Vader."  So, when Vader says "I was but the learner." I think he was just referring to him being less skilled than Obi-Wan at the time, but that now he was stronger.

Given that this has kind of become a story discussion thread =P  I figured I would post this concept here.  Now I'm not 100% that this would work, and I'm kind of anticipating some negativity around it, but just hear me out.  What if "Skywalker" isn't Anakin's actual name?  What if, when you are sworn into the Jedi Order, you are given a "Jedi name" by your master, similar to what you see in native american culture where you earn a name based on feats you performed in war.  Anakin's actual name is "Anakin Lars."  Ben gives Anakin the name "Skywalker" when he joins the Jedi due to him being an excellent pilot.  Obi-Wan's actual name would be "Ben Kenobi."  Obi-Wan can mean something in Yoda's native language.  (Yoda's native language not being english would explain why he talks sort of strangely.  Like an accent.)  Being such close friends, though, they keep elements of their actual names when speaking to each other, saying "Anakin Skywalker" or "Obi-Wan Kenobi."  When Obi-Wan delivers Luke to the Lars farm, he gives him Skywalker as a surname to honor the good man his father once was.

Mrebo said:

It is important to have the story not feel like a repeat of the OT.

Yes, it is.  However, it also needs to feel similar to the OT and not be so different that it doesn't feel like the same universe, a lot of which could be done with the use of parallels and foreshadowing that enhance the OT.  Anakin would have to lose his hand at one point.  Mentors need to die.  Sketchy social settings (cantina, jabba's palace, etc.) that usually play a big role in Star Wars.  It needs to feel old and new.  To me, the 2009 Star Trek movie is the perfect example of that old and new feeling that has to happen when you revisit a franchise, although I do cringe mentioning Star Trek positively on a Star Wars forum.

I actually have a 3Dtv.  I was just saying that those without one would probably benefit from an anaglyph version.

I started playing around with a Mulan-esque concept for the use of clones in the clone wars.  Republic becomes involved in a war threatening to destroy their way of life.  Palpatine, a high-ranking politician, demands each family residing in the Republic to offer up one healthy member of their family to fight in the war.  To stop their children from being sent off to war, many wealthy families have had clones of their children made to fight in their place, hence the Clone Wars.  Another idea I've played around with is that it has nothing to do with clones of people, but rather the wars themselves were clones.  One war comes to a close, but the Republic failed to learn from their mistakes, and due to the same set of circumstances as the first, another war breaks out.  Similar to how we refer to World War I & II together, even though they were separate affairs.  Calling them the "Clone Wars" is really more of a metaphor rather than a literal representation of who fought.

What are you using for the conversion?  It looks far too good to be anything automated.  I know the ins and outs of stereo 3d too and generally rely on Mocha for After Effects which I find works out fairly well.  As for the comment on anaglyph 3d.  I honestly don't understand the hatred for it.  On it's own it does destroy the colors, but it only takes a usually fairly simple color correction to fix it.  Nobody's going to be watching it without the glasses anyways.  Granted, it will never look as good as polarized, but I think anaglyph 3d is perfectly viable for home viewing, and I'm sure the members of the community without a 3d tv would appreciate an anaglyph version of this as well when you get around to it.  If not I could probably do it in After Effects (I did the same thing with a Jurassic Park 3d blu ray rip).  But all that aside, this is a very ambitious project that I will be following with great interest.

http://lostepisodes.fateback.com/prequels/

Just found this website.  Not sure exactly how reliable their sources are, but there is quite a whelp of information and speculation of the prequels dating back as far as pre-ROTJ.  In the "Clone Wars"  section, there is a rather long article written by a fan speculating what the story of episodes 1-3 would be that, while it may not be too useful for coming up with a story, it certainly is interesting to see the backstory from the point of view of a pre-return of the jedi mind.  There's actually an interesting theory about how Darth Vader and the then unnamed Skywalker actually were two people, but Vader was a clone of Skywalker who went on to "betray and murder" Skywalker.  So when Darth Vader reveals to Luke that "I am your father."  He is telling the truth.... from a certain point of view.  That theory just stood out for me and, while it kind of negates the idea of redemption present in Return of the Jedi as well as Ben's speech to Luke, it's still a pretty cool thought nonetheless.

Here's how I see the characters as far as roles in relation to the OT in my rough idea for what the prequels should be.   Obi-Wan plays the same role as Luke. So, Obi-Wan=Luke.  Anakin=Han.  Mother Skywalker/Padme=Leia.  Wilhuff Tarkin=Chewbacca (in terms of being friends and having history with Anakin.  He could even be his co-captain as it's said that Anakin was "the best star pilot in the galaxy.")  Darth Someone-or-other-evil-person-probably-Maul-because-he's-awesome=Darth Vader.  Honestly, and I know a lot of people disagree here, but C-3PO and R2D2 could basically fill the same roles they did, so long as it was done believably and not like something that was thrown onto the story in the last second like the actual movies.

Mrebo said:

I very much agree, NeverarGreat. Still, just coming up with a great script - so great, people read it and WANT it to be the prequels - would be a triumph.

If someone offered a great overall concept and an outline, or a whole draft of a script that would provide some basis for people to offer changes and additions, perhaps quite major ones. But we'd need to be open to people poking at our 'art.'

I'm of the school that we keep all OT secrets. I want to work from a premise of what the PT would have looked like story-wise if made pre-77. I think there may be room for an Anakin/Obi-Wan centric story, but it is a challenge. Still, plenty of you need greater creative justification of that route. And without showing how it can work, it's hard to sign on to that sort of vision. Just as I'm intrigued about Neverar's unknown character vision, but need convincing.

I've liked CWBorne's work too. And the cross-polination is a good point. There are certain story elements of his I independently chose (Obi Wan crashing to Tatooine at the start) and other's I'm tempted to 'adopt.'

See.  Here's where I disagree.  While I do feel that the reveals of the OT should be preserved, there really isn't a way to make a decent, cohesive story arc that way.  I'm in the school of thought that you should assume everybody watching already knows the reveals.  I think that when thinking about story for the prequels, it should have reveals of it's own, so that whether you watch it 456123, or 123456, you still get some powerful reveals.  I want to work from a premise of what the PT would have looked like if made late-eighties, early-nineties; as opposed to late-nineties, early two-thousands.  Personally, I've always felt the story should be more about Obi-Wan's failure as a mentor, not Anakin's failure as a jedi.  1-3 should be about Obi-Wan, 4-6 should be about Luke, and the underlying story that ties them together should be about Anakin/Vader's redemption.

I think it's more about compromises than trying to please everybody.  Have everyone involved come up with ideas to fit into a vague storyline to be concieved together and vote as a group on the best and worst ideas.  Maybe have a number of people each get a crack at writing their own draft based on a preliminary rough draft.  Honestly I feel agreeing on the screenplay would be the hardest part of the process if this were to actually be done.