I will agree that Palpatine was easily the best part of the prequels, but that's hardly enough to declare them the superior trilogy.
The video more or less sums up how I feel about The Phantom Menace as a whole.
georgec said:
Why? Why are people seeing this?
I don't understand the logic.
Forget the shittiness of the movie itself. Some people claim they're seeing TPM in theaters for the 3D. Unsurprisingly, the 3D conversion itself is extremely poor.
You guys fell for it AGAIN. He sold you another turd and convinced you it was better because of "3D". You decided to give him more of your money, despite all of your reservations and all of the history of Lucas' not delivering good products, because "it's Star Wars."
God damn, it's pathetic.
There are a few of us, like myself who saw the movie because we actually like the movie disppite it's flaws. There is nothing pathetic about going to see a movie you like just because other people don't. And I didn't go see it because it was in 3D, I went to go see it for the experience of seeing it in a theater again and the 3D was just an added gimmick.
What bothers me is idiots that show up who don't like the movie, but come just to shove the fact in everyone face. There's a time and a place for the critism and it's not right in the middle of the freaking movie theater.
What do you get when you combine a washed out DVNR ridden transfer of a film with a 3D post conversion, horrible theater service, and the most annoying gaggle of fan-boys to ever assemble in one place? You get what pretty much amounts to my worst experience at the movies in ages, my trip to the midnight showing of The Phantom Menace.
First of all, the movie looks like shit. Imagine taking the GOUT and slapping a 3D conversion on top of it. That's seriously what this looked like. A complete blurry mess. Colors were washed out, detail was gone, some of the battle droids streaked almost as bad as Han's Tauntan entering Echo base. The only thing I can really say that was all that impressive about this viewing was the awesome 3D epic-ness that was Liam Neeson's nose during close ups coming right at me. Not even the Pod-race was up to par.
Almost as bad as the transfer were the fans in attendance. I'm not sure who was more annoying, the group of hecklers in front of us who spent the whole film running their mouths and cracking jokes and before the movie started, got up in front of the theaters and asked people if they actually liked this movie they were about to see then started asking questions straight out of the RedLetterMedia reviews. I'm sorry, but whether you like the Prequels or hate them, showing up and paying your money just to heckle the films and the fans is a douche thing to do. Or the guy who was shouting, clapping, and cheering over enthusiastically at everything from Jar Jar, to "yippee!", to "are you and angel?" (that kids a pimp he said) and basically every shot Darth Maul was in. Seriously, the guy started shouting "fuck yeah" and "fuck him up" during the final duel while there were CHILDREN present.
The presentation of the film was bad, but I've never been more embarrassed by the fan base than I was tonight. The fans are freaking insane and I seriously just want it all to stop. Finish up Clone Wars, forget the freaking live action series, and wrap up the EU with some kind of logical closure for Han, Luke, and Leia. When something gets this overly commercialized, it just starts to suck and the fan rage on both sides of the Lucas love/hate wagon are just adding fuel to the fire.
This would all be so much simpler if I were just a Big Lebowski fan.
I noticed a few places in the Empire DVD where the screen goes black for a second.
I seem to recall reading at some point that the JSC's had some frames missing. Can I assume that these black spaces are there to keep the sound mix in sync?
Another thing to consider is Admiral Motti. If A New Hope, he obviously doesn't have much belief in the force or the Jedi/Sith ways otherwise he wouldn't have been stupid enough to talk shit to Vader. You would think that a high ranking official would know well enough not to screw with a force user unless of course their deeds had faded into the obscurity of history. Even though it's only been 20 years, the original Star Wars does imply that the Jedi have been mostly forgotten so the likely hood that one specific Jedi would be a common house hold name at this point is highly unlikely.
BenD said:
My main beef actually, with the PT is that George Lucas didn't have the balls to make Jar Jar a major character screen time wise - though I have a lot of problems with things like that actually that I don't think are appropriate for this thread.
I've never really hated Jar Jar as much of most people. He's annoying yes, but really, he's suppose to be and he plays his role well. Now, little kid Anakin is a different story, him I want to punch in the face every time words come out of his mouth. But I've always thought that Lucas had some sort of development for that character intended for the next two movies that never came to fruition because he caved to the fans and shoved him into the background for the next two movies.
timdiggerm said:
It's hard to say, from a 6-movie perspective, what Owen and Beru know or don't know. They know that Anakin left suddenly, immediately after his mother's funeral, following Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade. Obi-Wan must have given them some sort of explanation for who he was and why he was giving them this baby.
I always thought that there might have been a bit of dialogue there that was cut out. Beru does turn and walk away pretty suddenly directly from a cut. Having dialogue there though would have broken the mold of all the movies ending with a few minutes of stuff happening on screen with no dialogue as the music swells.
Put Captain Solo in the Cargo Hold said:
I'm always under the assumption that the general public (I mean the people in the Star Wars universe) doesn't know Vader and Anakin are one and the same. That it's a dark secret known to only to Obi-Wan, Yoda and the Emperor. Though in order for this to work, you have to disregard the prequels and EU.
Even if you do regard the prequels then you only really have to add Bail Organa, a battalion of Clone Troopers, and perhaps that blue dude with the horns.
If you follow the line of Anakin from the moment he falls to the dark side to him going into the suit, then there are only a few stops along there way for people to see him doing evil stuff out of the suit and pretty much all of those people are dead.
He leave the Senate, hooded mind you, directly to the temple with the 501st, who actually probably picked him up from the Senate and flew him straight there. After killing EVERYONE in the temple, he then leaves for Mustafar making only a pit stop at Padme's apartment alone the way. He's in a Jedi starfighter so he presumably came straight from the temple to Padme's and wouldn't have had to make any stops between there and Mustafar. He kills all the separatists on Mustafar and other than a few aliens doing some mining who have no idea what the hell is going on, nobody sees Anakin from that point until he goes into the suit except for the Emperor and the Clones.
Anakin's actions where not great public spectacles . They happened in the shadows. So the only way to assume that the general public of the galaxy knew that Anakin fell, is if you assume that one of the few people who did know went announcing the fact to everyone. Which you can't assume.
georgec said:
Owen and Beru definitely knew.
"He has too much of his father in him."
"That's what I'm afraid of."
I always figured that Obi-Wan kept up with news around the galaxy by visiting Mos Eisley or talking to other people. It probably didn't take him long to figure out Anakin was Vader. Plus, I remember in ROTS that Obi-Wan watches a video of Palpatine calling him "Lord Vader."
No, not definitely. I doubt they knew that Anakin was Darth Vader as Obi-wan would have had no way of that Anakin was still alive and would likely not have gone into too great detail.
I kind of thought that when they said the whole to much like his father thing that they were referring Anakin being a space adventurer rather than a homely farmer like Lars.
Now, if you are disregarding the continuity of the prequels, then Beru and Lars lines still wouldn't apply to them knowing that Anakin was Vader because, as Anchorhead said, the concept of Vader being Luke's father hadn't been created yet.
Who's to say that the general public would have known that Anakin did anything. It was probably assumed by the general public that Anakin died with all the rest of the Jedi when they "betrayed" the republic. After killing Mace, Anakin pledges loyalty to Palpatine and he takes the 501st to the Jedi Temple to kill all the Jedi while Palpatine issues Order 66 to kill all the other Jedi. Anakin is also cloaked and the operation is carried out under the cover of darkness so it's likely that if anybody saw the Jedi heading toward the Temple, they likely would not have known who it was. The only recordings of Anakin's dark deeds were made at the Jedi Temple and possibly at Mustafar. But since the Jedi Temple was under martial control by the Clone Troopers, who by the way, told any outsiders that came by that there had been a rebellion, then it would be reasonable to assume that these recordings were covered up and any Mustafar security recordings that may have existed were probably either destroyed by the destruction of the facility or seized by the Clones when they arrived with Palpatine to rescue the burned Anakin. So really the only people who knew what Anakin did where the clones who carried out the sedge and rescue missions and they would not have disclosed classified military information. Yoda and Obi-Wan obviously knew and it's reasonable to assume that Bail Organa could have known of Anakins betrayal but as Obi-wan and Yoda had already parted ways by the time Vader would have been revealed then he would have had no way of knowing Vader was Anakin as he assumed that Anakin had been left for dead. And, even if Ob-wan, or Yoda, had specifically said, "hey, Anakin's been calling himself Vader these days" and Bail had put it all together after this dude Vader starts showing up then it still doesn't mean that he would have started spreading it around like wildfire enough to reach the ears of Luke Skywalker living on a backwater planet with little ties to the dealings of the Empire. The planet was outside the republic under the control of the Hutts until probably very recently before A New Hope. Remember the Luke and Biggs conversation about the empire won't even mess with this rock and things can change, you know they've already started to nationalize commerce, and pretty soon your uncle will be a slave working for the greater glory of the empire or something like that.
I've read a summary of the history of the films from wikipedia, a few other websites, and the booklet included with The Complete Metropolis.
From what I understand. There were 3 main versions of the film that were cut after the Berlin premiere. They were the US cut, the British cut, and the German re-cut. All three of these cuts where similar but not identical.
So the first thing I want to know is are these 3 cuts the same cuts that are available in the public domain copies or are they all further butchered. Was there a common score associated with these re-cuts or that are available or do all these public domain versions just use whatever score they want.
Furthermore, I've read about there being several attempts to restore the film. The first was in the late sixties I believe and gathered all the footage together but didn't have the title cards or original music cues needed to properly reconstruct the the editing sequence.
Then, after Moroder's version, it reads that Enno Patalas made a new restoration in 1987 using newly discovered title cards and original score music.
But then flash forward to 1998-2001 and we get the new restoration that was released in 2002 that seems to draw from that exact same material from the Enno Patalas restoration.
So I guess my real questions are, is the 1987 Patalas restoration the same as the 2002 restoration, or an earlier draft of the same restoration, or something entirely different. And what about the 1968 restoration? Are these versions available?
And what about the original re-cuts. Are these available in their original form? What was the story that they cobbled together in these re-cuts. From what I read, Moroder's version was the first to actually reconstruct the original story structure. So what were the others like then? What's the significance of Moroder's version in the grand scheme of Metropolis's history? What versions are these public domain prints?
So much confusion.
I was going to start a new post for this but as this topic closely related, I'll ask it here.
I'm a huge fan of Metropolis, I bought the complete version when it first came out and I recently picked up the Moroder version. After watching it, it kind of sparked my interest in trying to collect some of the other versions from over the years, but I'm really confused about the content of all the different versions that exist. Some seem to be the same cuts as others only with different sound tracks while others are entirely different cuts. And to make matters more complicated, the versions I see listed on amazon, don't seem to give any indication of which version they are. Are these versions all the original US cuts or do different distributors have different cuts? Is the UFA re-cut available?
Is there a comprehensive history of the films different version and releases somewhere on the web?
I know obtaining every cut imaginable is probably impossible given the crazy history of the film, but getting my hands on the major ones would be nice.
Any help sorting out this mess would be much appreciated.
The TPM puppet looked like crap so I'm all for replacing him with a version that matches his AOTC and ROTS appearance. Plus there's enough CG stuff in the prequels anyway that a little more isn't really going to make or break the films.
I just watched the Phantom Menace episode and I noticed that when they played a clip of the Greedo scene later in the episode, Han still shot first. And no digital stuff in Mos Eisley.
Yeah, it's not like they shared an intimate encounter and almost kissed before Han walked in or anything. That would just be nutty.
If he falls back into the sarlac pit for a 3rd time I'm gonna lol.
Harmy said:
Would anyone please care to comment on the picture I posted here? I'd quite like to know if you guys think I should use the new one.
I would have to see it in motion.
I noticed that the other dewback in the search scene in 1.0 looked off being completely still since in the original version the storm troopers pole moves just a little.
FrederikOlsen said:
Uh, yeah... that's the exception, obviously. I don't really mind, cause I think he should've left Darth Maul alive instead of replacing him with two mediocre villains in the two other prequels.
I think they should have just done Ventress and Dooku as the two main villains for all 3 and saved Sidious for Episode III.
WhatsMyName said:
Are you guys really serious with this? You feel down because SW is not the same anymore? Come on! That should be the least of your worries! If i felt so down about SW as you guys i would've put a bullet through my head!
Don't worry about a stinkin' movie so much. Its pathetic.
"Who's worried?"
ZING!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95K-OOzeSYs
Pretty funny.
FleshLightsaber
LUHfetus
harmyrules
Frink_HD
deadyoungling
thebiggerfish
Serling1979 said:
And which one is the worst? *runs for cover*
The Phantom Menace is by far the worst. Other than Duel of the Fates, I can't think of a single memorable track.
Attack of the Clones isn't too great either but it does have a quite a few more musical gems than TPM.
This may seem weird but whenever I'm feeling down, I just like to imagine that it's 1983 and Star Wars isn't available on home video yet and all I have to re live the experience is my novels and marvel comics. Then one day my dad comes home from a flea market and gives me bootleg copies of the original trilogy that look like crap, but hey, at least I can watch them and they look better than camcorder copies.
CO said:
Not sure if I answered this before, but I honestly went back to being a Star Wars 77 fan and walked away from everything after that. I know many of you will question why I walk away from Empire Strikes Back? Empire and Jedi go together, and with all the changes to Jedi over the years, the movie is unwatchable at this point.
The Prequels, the SE, the lack of the OOT has just ruined the whole Star Wars experience, and the only way to forget about all that bullshit is to watch the original movie in the context of 1977. Nobody was related, no contradictions, just a standalone movie that has a beginning, middle and ending. I am old enough to remember Star Wars BEFORE Empire came out, so it is not hard for me to block out the sequels/prequels/SE, as The Original Star Wars was always my favorite anyway.
I have several phases I tend to go through. This is actually one of them.