DarkFather

To be fair, they did have some comrade moments shown. As inside the lift on the way to reunite with Padme at the beginning of AOTC, they are having a good-natured talk about the past. Also in AOTC we have Anakin admitting to even Padme that he sees Obi-Wan as a wise and powerful teacher. And then in ROTS, Anakin saves Obi-Wan after he was put out by Dooku: if Anakin had truly hated him, I believe he would be the type to just leave Obi-Wan there and tell the Council he had died in an unfortunate accident. Later on in ROTS they have a similar talk about how many times Anakin has saved Obi-Wan.

Also notice in ROTS, and this is something few have drawn a connection on: Only when Obi-Wan says "You were my brother Anakin. I loved you." does Vader ignite from the heat. During all that time, they had been just as close to the lava as Vader was in that scene, and were unharmed. I see it as Obi-Wan's words touching Vader in a surprising way to the point that he lost concentration, and the "Force shield" against the heat of the lava broke. I think when Obi-Wan said that, Vader finally realized how much he had deserved his defeat. He had screwed everyone over, even his former brother/comrade-in-arms. Yet like that scene with Vader weeping, he doesn't believe there is any turning back.

Though Obi-Wan's memories of the person Anakin was were indeed overly romanticized, I do think Anakin did have respect, love, and admiration for Obi-Wan. It was his issue with pride that caused him to ignore it sometimes.

I think it's ridiculous and narrow-minded (something you have accused me of being) to dismiss all EU reasons, as long as they are logical, reasonable, and don't make any far stretches where you have to do mental acrobatics (such as Padme making a Force connection with her daughter before dying shortly after, as I've already stated).

The EU is a broad category with too many sub-categories to count, not a single object (one book, one point, one author, one excuse/reason) that any reasonable person can simply write off as all bad. Say the first ice cream you ever tried was slug flavored, and then you dismiss ice cream altogether, saying you hate it. Well, slug flavored ice cream doesn't come close to defining ice cream as a broad category. So if you were savvy to there being dozens and dozens of more flavors out there, but refuse to consider any of them, that's what I would call narrow.

As you often do, you might come back with some point about how I need to accept that others have different views. Sure you have your views, but that shouldn't stop someone from pointing out how narrow those views are, especially since you're quick to accuse others of being narrow.

In Star Wars, there have been all sorts of reasons and excuses made up from the very beginning to explain things that weren't given much detail in the films. I agree that if a film gets too lazy (as the PT did in parts), then it shouldn't be excused. But those are only a part of the puzzle.

In this case, saying that Vader's seeming breathing inconsistencies are "a mess" is plain silly. What would you have wanted, Vaderisnothayden? Right after he was scorched by fire, have Palpatine immediately run up and put an oxygen mask over his face moments after? That opens up a whole can of other questions that would need explaining then. Would you have liked Palpatine, or some clone, or a droid, to stop and take up minutes of the film to explain what I did in my post above: "So, Lord Vader, my apprentice, I see that thus far you have been leeching from the dark side in order to keep yourself alive, and if your focus is broken for more than a few minutes, it will prove fatal. We've got to get you into a pressurized surgical chamber in order for you to survive your reconstruction... etc. etc. etc." Sounds like that would slow down the pace of the film substantially. 

So tell me, Vaderisnothayden, in THIS CASE, how would you have supposedly handled it better than it was in the film?

If you cannot answer that question, and have no creative alternative of your own worked up, you're basically trying to use your opinion of "I don't like it" in a back-and-forth with nothing else to bring to the table.

EU excuses. The reality is that ROTS was at odds with the OT here, just as the PT is often at odds with the OT.

EU Reasons. In this case, it makes sense, I like it, so I am willing to accept it.

An EU excuse would be to say that Leia remembering her mother in detail is a result of Padme creating a Force connection with her daughter.

Gotta say, Anakin writhing on the table in that scene is odd as it always stays in various people's edits. He's screaming. This is a problem as he's clearly not opening his mouth. If I ever do an edit, that's gotta go and be replaced by tortured gasps and weak, dying wheezes.

I noticed that from the very beginning. I thought it was his face being so burned and dried out that he could barely open his mouth. You can still get a groan out as he did with your mouth only slightly open.

Also, the Vader reconstruction scene was inconsistent with the OT in that Vader was shown to have no problem breathing without his mask. In ROTJ we're told he'll die without his mask.

He was leeching from the dark side in order to sustain himself on Mustafar. However, it wasn't a permanent solution. It took immense focus and energy. To have that focus broken for a few minutes is fatal (also explains why Vader was able to survive without his mask intact in TFU after his duel with Galen Marek). That's why the medical chamber wherein the reconstruction took place was pressurized, acting as an "iron lung room" of sorts, just as the meditation chamber we see in ESB was pressurized.

Vader suffering his injuries and all the scenes afterward were great. Seeing Vader's reconstruction, the masking, and the first breath he takes will be with me forever. And seeing the technology of the OT in the PT finally, with Vader walking up to Tarkin and the Emporer was awesome.

I always imagined Anakin slowly turning to the darkside over a period of time spanning many years.

As was the case with the films we have. During the 9 years between TPM and AOTC, things went horribly wrong. Unfortunately we don't get to see the journey from innocent young boy to twisted adult.

In ROTS, he turns from being a pretty typical human being into a sick, twisted, sadistic, madman within a couple of days, perhaps even hours.

False. He was always a sick, twisted, sadistic madman from AOTC-ROTS. Nothing changed. "Killed women and children" and "was blatantly treachorous" all the while, as ConfusedMatthew so superbly put it.

Did it ever occur to him before he tries to kill all those jedi and Padme, he sleeps on it??!!!!

Anger, jealousy, selfishness... all part of the dark side. These emotions in great intensity cloud judgment, and everything we know from the OT seems to only indicate that the dark side augments these emotions.

It would've been a real drag for him to wake up the next day in the vader suit and think to himself; man, what was I thinking yesturday!

Which he most likely did, to an extent. Which would lead to ambivalance: Vader hates himself for his choices, yet turns around and makes excuses for them. Great inner conflict would only drive his evil actions, because he sees that excercising great control over others and his surroundings, he may gain control over his inner conflicts. An ongoing, doomed-to-failure battle.

I like that scene. You're right, there was some genuine emotional weight there.

But you are isolating a small piece of gold.

ANH and ESB were masterful balances of child/adult elements. ROTJ was alike to TPM, in that it seemed to be aimed almost exclusively at children. As an adult, it's underwhelming as the climactic, final clash between Empire and Rebellion.

Star Wars is for children. Adults need to stop being so selfish and realize that it isn't intended for them. Lucas meant to make a story for children.

Star Wars is for children.

Yes. Most certainly.

Or how about it's for everyone.

If you can show dead younglings... you can show dead Ewoks. If you can show a man suffering third-degree burns all over his dismembered body... you can show dead Ewoks. A lot of 'em. Hell. They needed to have been Wookiee warriors that we could take seriously instead of Ewoks.

Me neither.

bkev said:

Here's one of the more well-known Japanese BGM tracks for Dragonball Z. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgE3IXxHHNA ; it's one of my favorites that I can remember off hand.  Reminds me of Ginyu Transformation, in that it builds up.

Extremely minimalistic. Sounds all right, but Dragonball Z would be the last thing I would think about if I had listened to it without any context.

Here's another great one. Piccolo's Theme:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_2BSHbv3SY

"I'm a ghost now? I hate ghosts. And I hate teddy bears. Mmm. My daughter looks as hot as her mother. Wish I still had my body."

1997/2004 theme (how are they different? Haven't watched the Special Edition VHS ROTJ in a long time). It serves its function as an ending piece well, whereas the Ewok's Yub-Nub sounds like something you should be hearing mid-film.

That said: Sebastian Shaw as redeemed Anakin all the way.

I am not familiar enough with the music therein. Are there any samples you could provide?

Gaffer, read what I said. I invite you to follow the link, lay back, and close your eyes while listening.

Music video idea: The beginning part would be the Alderaanian people going about their daily lives. Little do they know the Death Star has halted near their planet to pass a final judgment. 0:33 would be the beam suddenly diving into the planet's crust to cause a moment of catastrophe before it's all over.

To drag the moment out to better fit the length of the climax in the music, have the destruction of Alderaan from a surface POV be in slow motion.

Gaffer Tape said:

DarkFather said:Glad you aren't trying to debate me on my own preferances. Bruce Faulconer filled DBZ with music masterpieces. There are few who can even hold a candle to what he did.

 

Wait.... what?  You're serious?  Music masterpieces?  Preference is one thing, but I can't even begin to wrap my head around that.  How does the same droning synthesized note for 18 minutes straight constitute music at all, let alone a masterpiece?

What that quote should say is this:  "Shunsuke Kikuchi filled DBZ with music masterpieces.  There are few who can even hold a candle to what he did."

Having a bad day, Gaffer Tape?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0FHHefVgmo

I like music where I can close my eyes and create a music video or movie of sorts in my mind.

Axia seems to be a case in point.

"NO! It sucks! Ew! Americans are so inferior, Japanese is the way to go all around! I hate the English and I hate my country, fuck Americans, no dubbed."

Which is a generalization that's a slap in the face to American voice actors who do have a lot of talent and do put effort into their work.

Hmm, don't know why that would make me an "elitist," as I agree with C3PX on all above points. I've just never understood this argument. Is it really that hard to read the subtitles and still keep an eye on the action?

I personally can't stand watching subbed anime. It detracts from the visuals if I have to read all of the dialogue. Some elitists say that "That is the way it was meant to be experienced, in the Japanese language!" Well, if I don't know Japanese, which I don't, then I can't experience it exactly how it was meant to be. The director obviously didn't mean for all of the dialogue to be read. So it's a moot point to me.

Sev, I don't know anyone who is asking him NOT to release a respectable, restored OOT.