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Dantha Fodder

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19-May-2005
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3-Apr-2024
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Post
#257052
Topic
Help Wanted: with my Episode II Edit's Opening Crawl....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257052/action/topic#257052
Time
Originally posted by: Trooperman
Good ideas.

I addressed the whole problem of the clone army and the mystery in a different way in SOTDS. I did toss the Dex scene and used the Analysis Robot to identify the dart, but it is established through new Mas Amedda dialogue that the Republc already had an army, but it basically wasn't strong enough any more to stand up to such a huge rebel force, and they desperately need a new, better army. Palpatine clears it after getting emergency power, and they all run over to Geonosis (without telling the audience that that's what they're going to do).

I like this.

I just faded to black on this one. People don't usually do that in edits, but the fade to black appears in the original SW several times, actually.


Hehe I know. I use it later in my EPII edit too when Obi-Wan takes off from Coruscant having spoken to Mace. It then fades into the discussion with the new queen. I'm a HUGE fan of the fade outs in the original SW. They're used very effectively.
Post
#256819
Topic
Help Wanted: with my Episode II Edit's Opening Crawl....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256819/action/topic#256819
Time
Originally posted by: Marvolo This would mean cutting out Zam's meeting with Jango at the beginning, which are completely unneccessary in my oppinion. By not seeing Zam sending the droid to Padme's apartments it would create suspense, because you don't know who is trying to kill padme. Then you find out it is Zam and then she is killed right when you feel that the Jedi have stopped the danger. Hoped the last part about Zam makes sense.

I think I tried removing the scene with Jango and Zam (which I agree is terrible) but there was the problem of what to cut to after Obi and Manakin finish speaking with Padme in her apartment. I know Magnoliafan, in his edit of Episode II cut to the sun setting over Coruscant (from EP1), but I don't want to resort to this unless I can get different enough footage.

I could try manipulating the Coruscant sun set to see if I can make it appear to be a completely different shot.

Originally posted by: Marvolo
CJust make it so Obi-Wan is going to Kamino to check the progress of the clone army, and make sure it is on schedule. When he first arrives at Kamino they ask Obi if he is there to check on their progress, and Lama Su tells him they are on schedule. Also when Obi-wan visits Jango's apartment he sees his armor and recognizes it as the same armor the assasin wore on Couruscant. This would make the meeting of Jango seem like a event that was set up by the force. Because if you remember Qui-gon said some meetings are not by chance. This would simplify things alot.


A creative idea, but not sure if it will work. I don't know if I like the idea of events being 'set up' by the Force. That sort of suggests that all the characters are at the whimsy of this mystical energy field rather than making choices/discovering things of their own accord/misforunate/adventure etc.
Post
#256805
Topic
Help Wanted: with my Episode II Edit's Opening Crawl....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256805/action/topic#256805
Time
Originally posted by: Marvolo
Couldn't you just cut out the saberdart mystery subplot. Just make it so Obi-Wan is simply inspecting the progress of the clone army. When he first arrives at Kamino they ask Obi if he is there to check on their progress. What if this is all he is doing? This would simplify his storyline and the movie would have a whole lot less plot lines.


I see what you mean.

I guess there's no other way to get Obi-Wan to Kamino with the material that is available. The only line that would explain why Kenobi is there would be that single statement "This is Jedi Master....he's come to check on our progress." Is that enough I wonder?
Post
#256797
Topic
Help Wanted: with my Episode II Edit's Opening Crawl....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256797/action/topic#256797
Time
Originally posted by: MTHaslett


Things get very convoluted in AOTC.


I agree.

Gunray is out for revenge against Amidala. Dooku arranges for the assassination to get him onboard as he possesses a massive droid army, hence Gunray's statement later in the film, "I'm not signing your treaty until I have her head on my desk" (which is probably my favourite Gunray line in the whole PT). Lets face it, he doesn't have many!
Post
#256783
Topic
Help Wanted: with my Episode II Edit's Opening Crawl....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256783/action/topic#256783
Time
Originally posted by: MTHaslett
Those are all great points. I have a feeling you're right. The "mystery of the clone army" is counter intuitive and becomes a plot-hole in retrospect (as well as a let-down when I recall how cool the "clone wars" sounded when Luke mentioned them in ANH). The Republic orders the army. The army comes. Bam-bam. Makes sense. Obi Wan pretends to be there to review the troops because he's hunting Jengo. It makes simpler sense this way-- the mystery is simple: who is trying to kill Padme?

By the way -- who is trying to kill Padme? Who hired Jengo to get her? Palpatine - right?


No, Dooku has still hired Jango to assassinate Padme in order to get Viceroy Gunray signed on to the treaty. That hasn't changed from the original film.
Post
#256782
Topic
Help Wanted: with my Episode II Edit's Opening Crawl....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256782/action/topic#256782
Time
Originally posted by: THX
It is a dark time for the Republic.
A decade after the battle of Naboo,
thousands of star systems have broken
away into a separatist movement, led
by the nefarious Count Dooku.

Fearing attack, the Galactic Senate has
commissioned the creation of a CLONE
ARMY on the remote world of Kamino and
now debates countering the separatists
with military force.

Leading the opposition to war, Senator
Amidala is returning to Coruscant to seek
help from the Jedi Knights, who may be
the last hope for peace in the galaxy....


I like it. Except maybe for the "It is a dark time for the Rebellion" which I think is too similar to "It is a dark time for the Rebellion."

I'm tossing up whether to do 'mood setting' intro, similar to ANH and ESB or an exposition/time setting intro like ROTJ.

But so far, I think this one could work, only without the ESB rip off.
Post
#256775
Topic
Help Wanted: with my Episode II Edit's Opening Crawl....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256775/action/topic#256775
Time
Originally posted by: Commander Courage
I really like the direction of this project (the crawls sound great), but seeing as these are rather ambitious ideas, how do you plan on working them into the actual film? I am in total agreement that the Republic's use of the mysterious army from Kamino doesn't seem all that reasonable, but how can you work around that when the "mystery" aspect of the Clonetroopers is such an intregal part of the plot?


A good point. I guess in my edit, the "mystery" aspect of the film takes a back seat to the other plot elements (ie the love story, Anakin's taste of the dark side).

I actually think its going to work. I've cut completly the Dex's diner scene which is responsible for a large part of the 'mystery' plot. Instead I've used the Analysis Droids scene from the bonus disc. When scanned by the droids, the screen will (hopefully if I can pull it off) display that the dart comes from Kamino. And that to me will be the only mystery in the film. The audience is meant to think, "why is this bad guy linked to the cloners on Kamino?" But as Obi-Wan still explains in his transmission to Yoda and Mace "There appears to be no motive" which there isn't. Jango is simply a man for hire and has his fingers in many pies.

What was previously "the Clone trooper mystery" is now more exposition. Obi-Wan goes to Kamino in search of Jango and at the same time, the audience is shown the Clone army. Its not as creative or as subtle as what Lucas probably planned for the original film, but I prefer it this way rather than the horrendous manner in which it was executed originally.

I actually don't think the film really needs the mystery of the Clone Troopers. As the audience, all we need to know is that the Senate has made the decision some years ago to create the army because of the Separatist threat. I just can't help think when I watch AOTC that the entire Republic and the Jedi are completely stupid when suddenly a million troopers, that take years to grow, land in their lap, 5 mintues after Palpy says "I will create a grand army" and no-one stops to think where they've come from! It just doesn't work for me.

So, I hope in my edit I think I still suggest that the Cloner's are linked to Palpatine but far less obviously than in the original. The only link between them now, is the hired goon Jango. There are also lines spoken by both Obi-Wan and Mace in the film that will not be out of place, now that it has been established that everyone knows about the clone army. "You must realise there aren't enough Jedi to protect the Republic, we're keepers of the peace, not soldiers" and "I must admit that without the clones, it would not have been a victory". I think this way, with the changes I've made, the Jedi come across more willing to accept the army from the start (to help defend the Republic) than they would if it its creation was a mystery. I guess I like to think, while the dark side grows, the Jedi don't lose their intelligence or b*shit detector ability!

Sorry if its a convoluted reply, but hopefully I've explained what I'm trying to achieve.
Post
#256691
Topic
Help Wanted: with my Episode II Edit's Opening Crawl....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256691/action/topic#256691
Time
Originally posted by: THX
It is a dark time for the Republic.
A decade after the battle of Naboo,
thousands of star systems have broken
away into a separatist movement, led
by the nefarious Count Dooku.

On the remote world of Kamino, the
Galactic Senate has commissioned the
creation of a CLONE ARMY to help defend
the Republic and now debates countering
the separatists with military force.

Leading the opposition to war, Senator
Amidala is returning to Coruscant to seek
help from her friends Obi-Wan Kenobi and
Anakin Skywalker….


Not bad mate, not bad at all.

You've given me something to think about...
Post
#256617
Topic
Help Wanted: with my Episode II Edit's Opening Crawl....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256617/action/topic#256617
Time
Thanks for your thoughts guys.

Sluggo
The only item I have issue with is the commission of the clone army by the senate and the debate in the same senate over the same army. To me, it would make more sense to have Palpy outright order the creation of the army and leave the bickering to the senate. Unless you have bigger plans.


I think I still prefer the Senate being the ones who decide to create the army. I like the idea of all the Senator's being gripped by fear of Separatist attack and think that Palpy (and as Sidious behind the scenes), covertly manipulates things so the Senate end up making the decision.

Also Palpy, hasn't got emergency powers yet (he gets them at the end of the film as per the original film), hence I would need further explanation as to how he made this decision on behalf of the Republic independently of the Senate. Although I suppose I could ammend the crawl to state that Palpatine has already been given emergency powers....hmmm....

Post
#256595
Topic
Help Wanted: with my Episode II Edit's Opening Crawl....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256595/action/topic#256595
Time

Hi fellow editors

I too am busily working away on my edit of EPII and I owe a lot of my inspiration to this site (since I initially stumbled on it some 2 years ago). Back then there were only a few edits going around but I must say its great to see so many fan edits going on at the moment. The beast is definitely getting bigger and stronger.

I need some help in deciding on my EPII opening crawl. First, I should explain what I’m attempting to achieve with my edit and hence what my new opening crawl needs to achieve.

In my edit, the major points I needed to convey in the crawl are:

(1) Anakin and Padme have been friends since TPM. There is no 10 year gap between when they last saw each other. I like to think they’ve been close friends since TPM, keeping in touch even though they’re both off doing what they do (ie Anakin off being a Jedi, Padme living the life of a Senator). I think helps make the love story element of EPII more convincing.

(2) The Separatist systems have already left the Republic. They pose a great threat to the Republic as they grow in number hence my next point:

(3) The Senate has already voted for the creation of the clone army and most importantly, the Jedi and all the Senators are aware of it. It is no secret the clone army has been commissioned on Kamino. Rather I want to establish that the Senate willingly voted for its creation as a knee-jerk solution to the growing Separatist threat (in the months/years before EPII begins). A group of Senators lead by Padme are a vocal minority who opposed this decision and still oppose engaging the Separatists with military force.

My biggest problem with EPII is the whole conspiracy idea of how the army was created. I’m annoyed the Republic and the Jedi so blindly accept the army and don’t stop to think “hang on, where did this army come from and how was it built so quickly?” It doesn’t make sense in terms of a timeline and it weakens what is a pivotal moment in Star Wars history (ie the birth of the Empire).

Any conversation in the Senate in my edit about “the vote” is now meant to be a vote about engaging the Separatists not a vote about the actual creation of the army.

(4) Padme has already become the target of the assassination because of her opposition to the Clone Army and the pending war with the Separatists. In my edit, I’ve cut the ship explosion scene at the start of the film, instead cutting to the Senate scene from the bonus material. I like the fact the assassination attempt has occurred off screen. Who needs another lame CGI explosion? Not me…

(5) Padme is now willingly seeking the help from Obi-Wan and Anakin, rather than being reluctantly forced into accepting Jedi protection by Palpatine and the council.

I based my crawl loosely on ESB ie having a planet’s name mentioned in the second paragraph, establishing the timeline in relation to its predecessor (in this case TPM) and I’m also trying to keep it to the 83-83 words the cawls have.

But at the moment I can’t decide which one reads/flows the best, yet conveys all the info. I want it to.

I’m very keen to get anyone’s help in choosing. So please have a read of these below and let me know which one you think is best (in terms of achieving all of the above, as well as sounding right/flowing right). If anyone can produce a re-write that is better, I will also consider that.

Thank you!

<span class=“Bold”>(1)

"It is a decade after the battle of Naboo.
Thousands of star systems, led by former
Jedi Knight, Count Dooku, have seceded
from the Republic.

On the remote world of Kamino,
the Galactic Senate has commissioned the
creation of a CLONE ARMY to help the
Jedi Knights defend the Republic and
now debates countering the Separatist movement with military force.

Leading the opposition to the security measure,
Senator Amidala has become the target of an
attempted assassination and is returning to
Coruscant to seek help from her friends
Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker….</span>

<span class=“Bold”>(2)

"It is a decade after the battle of Naboo.
Thousands of star systems, led by former
Jedi Knight, Count Dooku, have seceded from the Republic.

On the remote world of Kamino,
the Galactic Senate has commissioned
the creation of a CLONE ARMY to help
the Jedi Knights defend the Republic.

As debate rages whether to counter
the Separatist movement with military force,
Senator Amidala has become the target of
an attempted assassination and is
returning to Coruscant to seek help from her
friends Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker…."</span>

Post
#253091
Topic
The voice of Qui-Gon
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253091/action/topic#253091
Time
Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Qui-Gon can be heard in two scenes in ADM's RotS:

INT. POLIS MASSA-OBSERVATION DOME-NIGHT

On the isolated asteroid of Polis Massa, YODA meditates.
QUI-GON: (V.O.) Do you feel responsible? Forgive yourself. If you let it, it will destroy you, as it almost did me.

AND

EXT. DAGOBAH-DAY

A small escape pod hurls toward the swamp planet and disappears in the mist.
QUI-GON: (V.O.) Are you ready to begin?
YODA: (O.S.) Yes. Will he finish what he begins?
QUI-GON: (V.O.) Finding him was the will of the Force, I have no doubt of that.
The pod has landed, and YODA descends the ramp, surveying the unfamiliar terrain.
QUI-GON: (V.O.) Master, may the Force be with you.


Great work Commander! That's exactly what I was looking for! An kudos to ADM for his work too. ADigitalMan you've definitely taken a different route than mine, but very interesting to see what you've managed to pull off.

For what its worth, my edit has Qui-Gon saying to Yoda while meditating. "He is critically wounded. But wait! I sense the spark of life in him still. We must train his son! Only then can we challenge the Sith!"

Fortunately, the mood/timbre of the actor who did Qui-Gon in the Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds game sounds close enough to be Liam Neeson, and fortunately, the different pieces of dialogue I managed to find, don't sound too messy when cut and pasted next to each other.

Thanks for your help all!
Post
#252914
Topic
The voice of Qui-Gon
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252914/action/topic#252914
Time
I've managed to piece together a relatively decent piece of Qui-Gon talking from the Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds video game.

Having it actually have a larger/saga meaning ala what ADigitalMan has done is what I'm trying to ultimately achieve.

Hopefully someone can come through with the actual dialogue used in his edit so I can get some inspiration!
Post
#252793
Topic
The voice of Qui-Gon
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252793/action/topic#252793
Time
Originally posted by: ADigitalMan

But instead I did try to actually reconstruct Lucas' plot point as best as possible. The result resonates though Ben and Yoda's deaths, all the way to the end of ROTJ. If a Jedi cannot forgive oneself for what he sees as his greatest mistakes, he cannot become one with the Force and still retain his consciousness. But if you can forgive yourself in spite of the atrocities of your past (Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin all had them) then you may live on in the afterlife.

The whole tone becomes about forgiveness. And that is a POWERFUL message for any story.


ADM that really is cool and makes complete sense in terms of explaining the whole force ghost thing. Its one I've never thought of before actually, even after reading the Episode III novel. What a shame this wasn't included in the original film.

Please forgive my constant badgering, but what is the dialogue you used in these scenes? Was it only Sith that you added Liam Neeson to or Clones too? I'd love it if you or somebody who has a copy of your edit(s), could post the dialogue as it appears in your edits (as if it was a script/screenplay sort of thing).

I'm not interested in plagurising your work (as I have my own ideas already completeled) but definitely keen to get a few new ideas flowing.

I'd love to d/l a copy of your edit but unfortunately the files are too big for my bandwidth.