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Creox

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29-Dec-2017
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18-Sep-2019
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Post
#1297268
Topic
Small details that took you <em><strong>FOREVER</strong></em> to notice in the <em>Star Wars</em> films
Time

yotsuya said:

Broom Kid said:

20th Century Fox paid for the Special Editions, yes. It was on their dime, and I believe it was initially their idea, too. Lucas ended up negotiating with them further, and used the money they’d initially earmarked for a 20th anniversary restoration and re-release of Star Wars to be a “Special Edition” trilogy project (I believe they got Fox to increase the budget at that point as well) but the story of the Special Edition starts with 20th Century Fox approaching Lucas about getting the original film back in theaters as an event, and Lucas then using his leverage to fix things he wanted to fix then, and add things he couldn’t have added, especially since Fox agreed to pay for it.

Now the quality of the “fixes” can be debated, and have been for over 20 years now, I’m not going to argue that the execution was successful. But the intent of the Special Editions was definitely different than the intent behind the DVD release, and the later blu-ray release. The Special Editions were initially begun with a bigger idea of “fixing” the movies so that they looked and felt more like he wanted them to back then. The DVD and Blu-Ray additions - not paid for by Fox - were undertaken more along the idea of “this seems cool, put it in there.”

Director tinkering is the best description for all three edit passes. It was the same thought process and the same type of changes. Only TESB had some real technical fixes (recompositing the snow effects shots). The rest were outright changes to the entire frame or recompositing new effects over existing footage. There really isn’t much different between changing the door in the 2011 version of ROTJ and changing the sandcrawler in the 1997 SE. Who was paying for it is irrelevant to the nature of the changes. It was all GL tinkering with his films to “improve them”.

Yeah, I agree with your last sentence though I can see where GL was going with some of his edits. He wanted to bring the OT more in line graphically with the PT. Where I find his edits really annoying is when he changed key aspects of the plot or adding FX for no obvious reason.

Post
#1295303
Topic
Han - Solo Movie ** Spoilers **
Time

Humby said:

DominicCobb said:

Hal 9000 said:

So Han and Lando only knew each other for a relatively short time across two or so adventures?

Says who?

Yeah, I think the ending does a good enough job implying that these two continue to have a friendly rivalry throughout the years following.

That being said, I’d say it was a big mistake to pack everything we’ve heard about Han Solo’s past into one movie.

-Kid from Correlia
-Joins the empire & abandons it
-Meets Chewbacca and partners up
-Meets Lando
-Makes the Kessel Run
-Loves, loses her, becomes cold
-Becomes a “shoot first” kinda guy
-Wins the falcon

Yeesh. It blows my mind that Kasdan wrote this.

Kasdan may have rightly understood this was probably the one kick at the can he or others would have in telling Han’s story. I guess he wanted to get all the pertinent parts included.

Post
#1294878
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations
Time

Ryan-SWI said:

yotsuya said:

Star Wars movies have traditionally not relied on just diehard fans to make money.

How’d that go for Solo?

TROS won’t lose money but it’s not going to meet the expectations suits at the top want.

Star Wars has been on a decline in public interest for a while now. Movie sales are down. Toy sales are down. Merch sales are down. Book/comic/game sales are down. Google searches are down. Trailer views are down. Social media engagement is down. Everything is down.

Why there are still people who insist that Star Wars is doing just fine is beyond me. The IP is tanking hard, worse than it ever has before, and the numbers are reflecting that in droves.

Disney/nuLucasfilm has torpedoed the brand and if TROS underperforms it’s in serious trouble.

I can’t tell if you are happy to be saying this or sad. Star Wars will be just fine.

Post
#1294546
Topic
Similarities Between the Original Trilogy and the Prequel Trilogy
Time

Mocata said:

It’s nice that people enjoy these kinds of lists but it doesn’t make them feel the same or have the same kind of viewing experience. Beyond a few visual effects set pieces and John Williams moments. The entire Ring Theory idea is hilarious straw grasping from what I’ve read, while ironically showing that the films don’t hold up by themselves and need pages of fan theory gibberish to make them have anything compelling under the surface. The idea that any of the current movies are making the PT seem better in hindsight is also hilarious considering that they’ve managed to at least have memorable/likeable characters and discussions of the Force which aren’t outright embarrassing. There are a lot of odd people out there but those claiming the PT is genius for copying the OT while bemoaning the ST as a rehash or some of the oddest.

I think the ST actually makes the OT more complete and the PT farther removed.

Post
#1294013
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Omni said:

I think he was too much inside the lines. He’s talking as if he made something completely different and… I don’t think he did. It’s a very good movie, one I enjoy quite a bit - some incredibly well directed sequences and my all time favorite moment in the franchise (Luke vs. FO), but… it’s still a very derivative movie. A lot of the time it felt to me as if I was watching TESB + RotJ + x = TLJ, x being the bit of originality the movie had. To me that was the dynamic between Rey, Kylo and Luke, which is exactly the sort of great expansion from something in the OT (the connection Luke, Vader and Ben had) I was hoping we’d get in the ST. It’s inspired by, but not so much of an almost-copy as some of TFA and some (albeit much less) of TLJ. It’s brilliant. A bit of Canto Bight and the Holdo-Poe dynamic are also original aspects of the movie in my view. So yeah, there is quite a bit of originality, but it’s not enough for him to proudly claim he “step[ped] outside of the bounds of what the original movies did”, or something. Again, it’s a nice movie, and I enjoy it enough, but I don’t think it’s this far out thing a lot of people, including the film’s director, say it is.

Maybe someone could enlighten me? From all of the discussion I’ve seen regarding TLJ, the fact that it’s a very different movie is usually a given, and… I don’t get it.

I sort of agree with you in that I think Johnson directed an great SW flic. That being said, some of my thoughts on TLJ with respects to being outside of the lines has to do with the reaction from a loud segment of “fans” who thought it destroyed the franchise, would never watch another move etc etc. My own thoughts are that it wasn’t predictable in many cases and didn’t follow the hero trope the way many fans have come to expect. It made the franchise interesting again imo.

Post
#1293899
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

oojason said:

Mocata said:

Why is this same kind of article still being published?

Because near-on two years of this stuff just isn’t enough?

Oh… clicks, ads and $$$ from sensationalising and misleading titles and headlines with certain keywords to try and attract hits to said articles too.

It doesn’t apply so much to this article - yet there’s money to be made from peddling division, hate, toxicity and negativity online - and enforcing (repeating again and again) those views.

 

At no point are there quotes from Rian Johnson in the article stating he ‘subverted’ anything.

The only quotes from him in the article are…

“I think the instant you start thinking in terms of how do you not step outside of the bounds of what the original movies did, you’re not thinking the way the people who made the original movies did,” he said. “With every movie, they were pushing it forward, with every movie they were stepping outside those bounds and pushing the characters into new, emotionally honest, but surprising places."

“That’s why those movies are great. That’s why they’re alive. If they had been looking at something that came before it and saying, ‘Oh, we better not do this because that is outside of this or that,’ it would’ve been different.”

I really like that quote from Johnson. It’s exactly how innovative film makers should be thinking. If he had stayed inside the lines so to speak I think SW would die a slow death.

Post
#1293716
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations
Time

pleasehello said:

StarkillerAG said:

pleasehello said:

Each Bond film is the exact same movie, but the series has established that formula pretty well. Schlocky action, cheesy one-liners and a general feeling that it should not be taken seriously. Audiences go in knowing and expecting that.

You could say the same thing about the MCU.

You could. The Marvel formula is pretty well established at this point. But I don’t think the brand sees or markets it’s movies that way. I also don’t think the general movie going public sees the MCU movies that way or else there would be no appetite for them anymore with 3 or 4 of them every year.

The supply and demand for Bond is a lot lower because I think most people recognize that all of the movies are the same.

Getting back on topic a little bit, it’s possible that interest is waning in Star Wars films because the public is recognizing that the new movies are afraid to be different and keep retreading the same already well-trodden ground.

Well, when Disney sees the complete shit storm over TLJ they probably are afraid to a degree to make SW too different. I think Johnson’s trilogy will definitely be different from the usual…I certainly hope so.

Post
#1293665
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations
Time

What I find confusing about the complaints of the ST being too similar to the OT is this. Think about the MCU or even James Bond series. You could make a great case for all those films being similar to each other in several ways. Villains, overcoming adversity, superhero tropes, Bond finding an ingenious way to save the day at the last minute, dialogue etc etc.

I don’t hear many folks talking about that…at all…but then again I don’t get out much. 😉

Post
#1292910
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations
Time

DrDre said:

RogueLeader said:

It sounds like he meant that from a visual standpoint in particular.

EDIT: Also wanted to say that I’m really enjoying how we’re having an interesting discussion about this even though we have different opinions!

Well considering Lucas stated the following about his plans for the ST, I suspect this opinion isn’t just restricted to the visuals, even though that quote seems to focus on that aspect of the film:

GL: [The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force.

GL: If I’d held onto the company I could have done it, and then it would have been done. Of course, a lot of the fans would have hated it, just like they did Phantom Menace and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would be told.

Lucas thus clearly feels the whole story as he outlined it to Disney during the sale has not (yet) been told, and while I suspect certain elements of his outline ended up in the final product, he obviously had something very different in mind for the core narrative. That’s not to say his movies would have been better, but they would definitely be more original, and expanded the universe and the lore to a greater degree.

Iv’e read what GL had planned for an ST and I’m sure as hell glad he didn’t.

Post
#1292889
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations
Time

Shopping Maul said:

On the criticism/negativity side I think the overview of the films remains pretty consistent - ROTJ cops it for Ewoks and childishness, the prequels cop it for Jar Jar, kid Anakin, and flat acting/romance, the SEs cop it for ‘Greedo shot first’ and ‘Jedi Rocks’, TFA cops it for being a rehash, and TLJ cops it for not answering TFA’s questions, overpowering Rey contrary to the lore, sending Leia flying through space, and diminishing Luke Skywalker. Yes, there are wide variations within these basics, and the internet obviously compounds things in a special way, but to deny TLJ’s having been something of a bummer to the franchise is ridiculous. I’m not saying this to be confrontational, and I can’t say exactly how big a detriment this has been to the Disney SW project overall, but I think it’s pretty obvious that TROS has to ‘redeem’ the series to quite an extent.

I don’t get the Luke thing here. Although he did not spin around with his saber like a top and bring a mountain down on Kylo with the force pull he did project his image across a galaxy and save the resistance in doing so. The latter act being much closer to the Jedi way than hacking and slashing. The issue, imo, was that it wasn’t as action oriented for many fans. I thought it was epic.

Post
#1292888
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations
Time

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Huh I guess Star Wars really is dead and TLJ killed it. Good job, you proved it. Haha

Nope, Star Wars is in decline, and I’ve said nothing about TLJ being the cause, just that Disney’s strategy hasn’t worked, which is a reasonable conclusion, if the objective is growth, a conclusion supported by the recent analysis of bloomberg:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-07/star-wars-is-struggling-to-win-over-the-marvel-generation

What then would you say is Disney’s strategy that has been so disastrous?

Out with the old, in with the new. The Galaxy Edge theme park is the best evidence, that Disney gambled on the strength of the new canon. In the process they alienated a subsection of the previous generations of fans, whilst not being able to win over the new generation. They essentially rebooted the franchise with characters that aren’t as compelling, and so people lose interest.

I see you are unaware of what has happened at Disneyland. It is not the failure you think it is. The access to Galaxy’s Edge has been full up. Crowds have been good. What has not been good is overall attendance because no one wanted to compete with the crowds they expected for the opening period. Disney made plans to address that, but not before people had made their vacation plans and skipped over this summer. I expect next year to be one of Disney’s best at the two parks with Galaxy’s Edge.

And it is your opinion that they rebooted the franchise. That completely ignores the cyclical nature of the story and how much the ST is paralleling the EU stories that so many fans are familiar with. I don’t see any issue with attracting a new generation at all. A number of people who are more casual fans like the ST more then the previous movies. And the box office numbers (adjusted for inflation) show that the ST is more popular than the PT was. The only group I see with a big problem with the ST are those who had expectations of what the ST would and would not include and don’t like that it doesn’t live up to that. A repeat of the PT all over again. Let the writers tell their story and sit back and enjoy. I indulge in spoilers so I can divest myself of all expectations and just enjoy how the story unfolds. Your theories of deconstructing and rebooting over analyze the trilogy and widely miss what the movies say about themselves. The ST was always going to involve the death of Luke in the first Episode (the first one he was in) and Harrison has been saying Han should die for 30 years. They passed the torch and Carrie’s passing forced that to be even more complete. This is the Rey, Finn, Poe trilogy and the OT characters are really just enlarge cameos. You had expectations, perhaps not of exactly what the characters would do, but definitely what they shouldn’t do. It is almost as if Lucas, Abrams, and Johnson set out to make a trilogy that was exactly what you didn’t want to see. I see symmetry in the repetition. I see the parallels in myth, history, and pop culture (Star Wars is a more serious take on Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers after all) and I’m enjoying the tale. It is very much what happens after the great war is over and how things move on. Often it is ghosts of the past that haunt the future and bring back a defeated enemy. I find the story of the ST to be very mythic and very classic and not repetitive at all. Certainly not a reboot. If you want to know what I call a reboot, just look over at Star Trek under CBS. The ST has nice echos of the Zahn trilogy while being new and fresh. Just in the ST, they took 30 years instead of 10 years to regroup and attack the Republic.

The Zahn trilogy does not have Empire vs rebels 2.0, or have the New Republic wiped out of existence, such that we reset the galaxy to an OT state. It does not have a Darth Vader wannabe, who also was a former Jedi pupil of the hero’s Jedi mentor. It does not have a fascimile Emperor. It does not have another Death Star like super weapon. It does not have another Jedi prodigy from a Tatooine clone. It does not have another ground battle involving walkers on a white plane. It does not have another throne room scene, where our hero has to witness the destruction of the rebel fleet, and an apprentice betraying his master to save the life of the hero. The Zahn trilogy was new and fresh. I can’t say the same for the ST. I’m not saying the films aren’t entertaining, and there are new elements, and nuances, but the so called cyclical nature is a poor excuse for resetting the story, and essentially giving us the OT with a new coat of paint. I’m not saying I dislike the ST in general, or that they’re bad movies. I’m saying it could have been a whole lot better, if they hadn’t undone most of the OT’s victories, and in stead given us a new and original story with new and original heroes, and villains, that weren’t in some way a slight variation of characters and stories we have seen before.

I’ve always seen the ST as the first shot into a larger scope of quite different films and TV shows. The balance had to be a familiar trilogy of movies that hearkens back to the OT but also merges with the new characters going forward. That the ST is as you say makes sense to me. Where I will agree with you much more is if the SW franchise stays on that trajectory going forward.

Post
#1292841
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations
Time

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Huh I guess Star Wars really is dead and TLJ killed it. Good job, you proved it. Haha

Nope, Star Wars is in decline, and I’ve said nothing about TLJ being the cause, just that Disney’s strategy hasn’t worked, which is a reasonable conclusion, if the objective is growth, a conclusion supported by the recent analysis of bloomberg:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-07/star-wars-is-struggling-to-win-over-the-marvel-generation

This is how you do an objective scientific analysis. Numbers don’t lie, haha.

I think the issue is not decline per se but one of more exposure. More films, more often. My experience was that the OT was this one off amazing trilogy that sat alone and in which we, as fans, could revisit without thoughts about other films expanding on its story.(before the PT and ST of course, obviously). Whatever you think of the PT, the SW universe changed after it and certainly after the two episodes of the ST so far. It’s more familiar now and part of a much larger culture of films and art we currently experience. SW is still huge but not as unique and mysterious as it was.

I, for one, am happy to watch more SW if the price is less of that mystery and uniqueness.

As for Marvel. I am a fan but own exactly two of the films…FTR I am superheroed out.

Post
#1292367
Topic
Lucasfilm: Beyond Star Wars and Indiana Jones
Time

MikeWW said:

Creox said:

SilverWook said:

I thought it was documented that a British editor did the first rough cut?

In any case, the Oscars Marcia Lucas, Richard Chew, and Paul Hirsch received for editing Star Wars speaks for itself.

This.

All I have to do is watch the prequels to see what a GL film looks like when he has no one around to reign him in or say “no” when needed.

Read the posts above you.

Also there a lot of good editing moments in the PT.
For example, the 123 editing of-

“Who could have done this” -cut to- Anakin slaughtering the separatists -cut to- Palpatine monologuing about the first Galactic Empire.

The PT demonstrates very clearly why GL unleashed is not a good idea. There are very few directors who can complete a film by themselves or call every shot while do so without serious fallout. I love the universe Lucas created and I state here today that his best creations were his very first THX,AG and SW. His career following has been mediocre at best unless palling up with Spielberg.

Post
#1291919
Topic
Lucasfilm: Beyond Star Wars and Indiana Jones
Time

SilverWook said:

I thought it was documented that a British editor did the first rough cut?

In any case, the Oscars Marcia Lucas, Richard Chew, and Paul Hirsch received for editing Star Wars speaks for itself.

This.

All I have to do is watch the prequels to see what a GL film looks like when he has no one around to reign him in or say “no” when needed.

Post
#1289934
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

thorr said:

OutboundFlight said:

When did John Boyega hint 9 sucks?

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/john-boyega-tells-feels-disney-star-wars/

That is pretty weak sauce if you ask me. Lots of different ways to interpret that set of very brief tweets. To say there are areas of disagreement on any movie is not saying anything radical but quite common. I also think it’s telling that many fans think stars of a movie are going to crap on it before it releases, especially co-stars. They do want to find work later.

Post
#1289710
Topic
Small details that took you <em><strong>FOREVER</strong></em> to notice in the <em>Star Wars</em> films
Time

ray_afraid said:

SilverWook said:

I never noticed Fake Mace in Episode One until someone pointed it out. It was a while before I noticed Yoda walking down the ramp in that scene as well, and it looks exactly like a little person in a suit. It may or may not be in the current version of the film though.

Nobody’s feet seem to be touching the ground in that picture. They’re all floating.
Is Yoda in that pic? I don’t see him.

You’re right…that isn’t Yoda but another of the same species from the council. The floating guard is…uh…bad.

Post
#1288566
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

SWOTFAN25 said:

Guys I’m so sick of all the hate. I love you guys here. Even the people who dislike the new films are for the most part civillized. But everywhere else I go I just encounter the hivemind. I just want to be excited for this thing, and I think the whole sequel trilogy has been butchered by the fans. Idk is anyone else just fed up with the all the internet bullshit?

A long time ago…

The bullshit has infested most areas imo. News, entertainment…whatever.

Post
#1281275
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DrDre said:

Mocata said:

DrDre said:

I disagree. I think the PT greatly expanded the universe and the lore, and while there are obvious issues in the execution, conceptually the PT is pretty strong, and imaginative. Lucas’ concepts combined with better dialogue and a good director would have resulted in some very good films, I believe, whereas I believe the ST thusfar is much more flawed on a conceptual level, whilst being pretty unimaginative, driven largely by nostalgia, but is able to translate what little there is better to the screen.

Eh. It’s all pretty dumb to be honest, the way Yoda teaches in a tiny room of kids, the midichlorians, the rule of two, the idea one Sith can cloud the minds of an entire Jedi council. For all the problems in TLJ it at least roots the idea of the force in ESB territory. On topic I worry how EpIX will try and connect the to disparate eras. Probably in a way that’s embarrassing.

To each his own, I suppose. I personally am not a fan of a corporation taking someone else’s creation, and rooting it somewhere the creator didn’t intend, or no longer intends. It’s Lucas’ saga in my mind, and I’m happy to accept both his original vision, the OOT, and his revised vision, the PT and the SE wrats and all. I would like the current owners to honour that legacy, and Lucas’ vision for the universe and characters he created, and then forge a new future with new material taking it wherever they want, whether it be in TESB territory or otherwise. In any case I don’t see how TLJ with its instant Force powers recieved from on high, light side and dark side balancing each other in quite a literal sense, and critical perspective on the Jedi is any closer to TESB territory than the PT. In TESB becoming a Jedi and mastering the powers that come with it, still took a lot of effort, and the Jedi were still the mythical guardians of peace and justice, an ideal that was still beyond reproach, left mostly to the imagination. We all take something different from these films, and to some what is displayed in the new films may be consistent with what they took from the OT, whereas for others it isn’t. For me certain aspects of the Force in the ST are closer to the OT than the PT, going back to a more mysterious energy field, but in other ways they are worlds apart, ditching the studying required to master Force powers, and the theme of temptation by the dark side that used to be intimately connected to this process, a theme largely developed in TESB, that then became integral to the entire saga up till the ST.

If it was rooted where GL originally intended it is very likely this series would never have been outside of the first one. His ideas for the sequels were atrocious imo.

At the very least he should not have sold LA if he didn’t want someone to change anything.

Post
#1278674
Topic
Can't be Bothered: justifying Rey's power vs Luke's
Time

NeverarGreat said:

yotsuya said:

I just found this and read the first post. I had to laugh at the idea that Rey flew the Falcon so well. She practically crashed the thing trying to take off. Once they were in the air she did pretty good, but when you compare that to Luke, he flew his X-wing like a pro from the beginning.

Luke is the best stunt pilot in the outer rim territories, and has clearly been flying for years. And it’s notable that even he never does anything terribly flashy in the OT. Rey’s handling of the Falcon is about how you’d expect in the first few moments, but after that she successfully executes maneuvers far in excess of anything we’ve seen before. If anything, the contrast between almost crashing and ace-level piloting makes her abilities all the more noticeable.

Rey has to try things before she succeeds, pretty much the way Luke did. And she does have a teacher. She learns just about everything she does from Kylo Ren.

She has never seen Klyo use a Jedi mind trick or even successfully gain his desired information from interrogation, though she manages a successful and proper mind trick after a minute or two of trying.
She has never seen successful telekinesis or levitation, yet apparently learns this on the first attempt after only a moment of intention from Kylo. Interestingly, Kylo never indicates that he is aware of teaching Rey ‘You need a teacher! I can show you the ways of the Force!’ and Rey never acknowledges that she has gained knowledge from Kylo ‘The Force…’.

I’d still like to know who taught Luke to lift his lightsaber in TESB.

If only there was some sort of Jedi mentor which has been established to help Luke from beyond the grave, or a time jump of several years to help the audience suspend their disbelief. Or both.

How about waiting until IX is out and then perhaps many of your questions will have answers.

Post
#1276705
Topic
The Worst Scene/Sequence in Any Star Wars Film
Time

CourtlyHades296 said:

TPM: Jar Jar stepping on poop
AOTC: The head swap
ROTS: Anakin murdering younglings
Solo: L3’s introduction
R1: Ponda Baba cameo
ANH: Leia’s British accent
ESB: The incestuous kiss
ROTJ: “Somehow I’ve always known”
TFA: Revealing Kylo Ren’s parentage too early
TLJ: Maz cameo

I’m curious why you didn’t like the Ponda cameo? Just that it exists?

Post
#1276016
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

Biggs Audio Dynamite said:

So you are repeating yourself.

Everyone repeats themselves here. I don’t know why anyone bothers making new posts anymore; they may as well just quote themselves from months ago; it isn’t as if they’ve gained new insights or revised their opinions in the interim.

Some repeat themselves more than others. 😉

Post
#1270705
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

It is my opinion, that many of the new elements introduced by TFA and especially TLJ to stitch the different OT settings, elements and story threads together are not properly developed or placed in the context of the larger saga, and thus rather than enrich the Star Wars universe, stick out like a sore thumb. So, in my view episode IX has the difficult task to integrate and further develop these half cooked new concepts, such that it all makes sense once the nine part saga is completed. If it succeeds, and I hope it does, I might see TFA, and TLJ in a different, more positive light.

I think the three trilogies mark one large arc (obviously) that cannot be veered from too much. I understand your concerns with the ST in that we are seeing the OT rearranged in a manner that is quite familiar. This was done so it would appeal to a larger audience and make more money…period. Of course TLJ has really pissed off a certain segment of the fan base but it really just tells the OT story in a different way.

While I am very excited for IX I am just as interested in the continued spin offs and Rian’s trilogy. I think we will see things branch out into new directions.

Post
#1270704
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

pleasehello said:

Creox said:

I also think veering off too much and you have a SW indie film that a lot fewer people will want to see.

But would probably be infinitely more interesting. I’m probably in the minority here, but I would love to see a Star Wars story done on a smaller scale. You don’t need $200 million to make a good Star Wars movie.

Oh, I agree so please don’t get me wrong. My comments were purely within the context of Disney recouping their 4 billion dollar investment…though, The OT was the beginning of the blockbuster more or less as well.

I would be overjoyed to see a small and smart indie SW film and tbh I think that is where the franchise is going imo. We are seeing a template for an expanded universe vis a vis the MCU I think. For me, it is a great time to be a SW fan.

Post
#1270564
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DrDre said:

I view the ST thusfar as a somewhat failed experiment, not unlike the PT. In my view the OT is a self-contained story with a clear beginning, middle and end, with clear character arcs. That story has gotten lost somewhat with the addition of the PT, and ST. Both the PT and ST are superfluous imo, and cannot stand on their own. They both add something to the overall narrative, and lore, but at a hefty price. To me the overall narrative of the six part “tragedy of Anakin Skywalker” is significantly weaker than the three part “adventures of Luke Skywalker”, and the thusfar eight part “Skywalker saga” is weaker still. However, in the case of the PT, aside from the poor execution of many elements, the faults were built in from the get go, where the story’s outcome was a foregone conclusion, and it’s self-referential nature part of it’s DNA. It was therefore self-evident that story choices in the PT, might clash with the previously established self-contained story of the OT. It might have been better to have the PT be set in a much earlier time, or an earlier conflict to provide more of a disconnect between the PT and OT timelines, thus ensuring the OT’s narrative is not significantly impacted by the addition of episodes 1 to 3.

With the ST however the creators were free to forge their own path, to create new settings, new aesthetics, and a new conflict to drive the story forward. In my view this did not happen. The ST and Disney’s additions to the franchise in general have been self-referential to a fault, whether it’s by copying the OT’s settings, aesthetic, and general plot, or whether it is by using the OT’s story threads, and set pieces to misdirect, and subvert expectations, the ST at its core thusfar has failed to provide us with a new setting, and new story. It’s the current generation’s updated and modernized OT, where history seems destined to repeat itself ad nauseum:

The big question for me will be, whether episode IX can break through this cycle? If not, I fear for the future of the franchise, where in a worst case scenario Disney Star Wars will forever be a cover band playing Lucas’ greatest hits, changing the order of the verses with some newly updated (and in some cases inappropriate) arrangements, rather than to take Lucas’ style of music, and create some genuinely new songs.

And yet…people who do not like the film say it isn’t like the OT in many ways. That it broke the promise of the SW universe, the feel of the original films.

I agree with your thoughts on certain aspects of the film being quite similar or even the same (more or less). I could say that about the Bond films or even the MU (villains, save the world etc.)

I would also like Disney to push the envelope and I think they have plans to do exactly that with spinoffs and Rian’s planned trilogy. He did say the characters would have nothing in common with the PT, OT or ST.

The three trilogies have to have familiarity imo so continuum is preserved. They also need to make a lot of money because they cost a lot of money. I also think veering off too much and you have a SW indie film that a lot fewer people will want to see.