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i actually don’t think luke’s going to be a force ghost in IX. not sure what he’s going to be though, but it’s basically one of the only things i’m looking forward to at this point.
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Getting high is
And where did he pick up all those moves he used in Return of the Jedi that he didn’t learn from Yoda in esb? I believe he… Dare I even say it… Figured them out himself?
such as? i can only think of the mind trick that was in the movie to basically tell the audience that Luke had grown from novice in SW to master in RotJ. other than that…
Maybe “new skills” isn’t correct, but enhanced surely is. He made a few impressive jumps in esb sure, but those were some pretty fancy acrobatics he pulled off on the sail barge that in the movies were unprecedented. Not to mention how much better he is with a Lightsaber. And he deflects laser bolts on endor with ease, something I don’t think yoda could hasn’t taught him. And he senses vaders presence/mindset. So new skills include force choke and mind control, but all old skills are also super enhanced and polished all the sudden with no extra training besides practicing ON HIS OWN.
right. i have no problem with that, because he had been exposed to everything and had sort of been given instructions on how to do everything. so ‘practice makes perfect’ + his affinity with the force growing steadily = how he evolved from TESB to RotJ. there were a few years in between the two movies i think so everything’s perfectly believable imo.
become the greatest
“plus, Han said in the very same scene Luke deflected three blaster bolts that “good against the remote is one thing. good against the living, is something else”, to which no one replies anything contrary, meaning that everyone agrees with what he said.” …this argument does not hold up , just because someone does not speak to ignorance does not equate to agreement , as evidenced by Kenobi’s line later asking who is the more foolish , the fool , or the fool who follows him ?
agreed that it’s the weakest argument of my post. and i agree that han was just being ignorant and wanting to have the last say on the thing, but i still think he had a point.
i believe darthrush is really busy with some real life stuff right now and will retake this project as soon as he can.
And where did he pick up all those moves he used in Return of the Jedi that he didn’t learn from Yoda in esb? I believe he… Dare I even say it… Figured them out himself?
such as? i can only think of the mind trick that was in the movie to basically tell the audience that Luke had grown from novice in SW to master in RotJ. other than that…
New powers in ROTJ were force choke and force mind trick… which he learned by copying others. In the established screen canon he doesn’t even learn to sword fight. He never learns speed / jump powers either. Or the telekinesis. OR the power to sense Vaders feelings. What exactly is the problem suddenly? This thread is just all over the place. Rey is learns too quickly. Luke was out of character. The Phantom Menace was a good film. Jeez.
Luke saw Ben mind tricking the stormtrooper back in Mos Eisley and Ben told him that “the force can have a strong influence on the weak minded”, and the meaning i got from that is that while the concept of a mind trick isn’t really hard to get, one must be really in tune and have a master’s control of the force to be able to perform it. that is why Luke mind tricking Bib Fortuna at Jabba’s Palace means he’s grown from novice to master. regarding Luke choking the guards: i think that force choke is just another way to use telekinesis, something he figured out by himself in a time of need in TESB.
in the OT it’s left apparent that one’s progression in sword fighting goes along with one’s progression of the mastery of the force. i guess that makes sense, given that the more you master the force the faster your reflexes are going to be, so yeah.
and Luke was in his physical peak during the OT and we watched Yoda push him to his physical limit while in Dagobah; so that, alongside the use of the force, makes me not see any sort of problem in him doing martial arts jumps and stuff.
right, i was just pointing out that Luke didn’t master the skill instantly like some were saying.
And where did he pick up all those moves he used in Return of the Jedi that he didn’t learn from Yoda in esb? I believe he… Dare I even say it… Figured them out himself?
such as? i can only think of the mind trick that was in the movie to basically tell the audience that Luke had grown from novice in SW to master in RotJ. other than that…
Plus as was already stated Luke learned some tricks without any training as well. Who taught him to pull the Lightsaber out of the snow in the cave on hoth? Sure wasn’t Ben. All Ben was shown doing was shooting at him with a remote, which he also seemingly picked up blocking on his own with Ben just giving some general musing about reaching out and such. And he sure seems to have picked up quite a few skills by the start of Return of the Jedi that he didn’t have any the end of ESB and as far as I know he never went back to degobah for more training.
my understanding of Luke pulling the lightsaber out of the snow in Hoth in TESB is: he was completely hopeless and desperate and basically reached out to the force, his only hope. i think he felt the lightsaber and had no idea that he’d be able to pull it using the force, but that he decided to reach out to it with the force nonetheless, simply trusting the force not sure what was going to happen. that’s why it’s such a powerful moment to me. it’s a moment where he believing in the force manages to get himself saved, by doing something incredible, which was pulling the lightsaber out of the snow.
not sure if i was clear enough but i watched a video at some point where the guy worded the way i feel perfectly. i’ll look for it in the future.
and for people saying that Luke mastered blaster deflection within minutes: i think he succeeded at reaching out and stretching out with his feelings to the point of almost seeing the remote, like he and Ben say, which is the very very first baby step one must take. that’s not even close to mastering the skill. the kids in AotC are doing the very same thing he was doing to improve their affinity with the force and i think they did that for hours and days and weeks until they were close to perfect, or totally in line with the force.
plus, Han said in the very same scene Luke deflected three blaster bolts that “good against the remote is one thing. good against the living, is something else”, to which no one replies anything contrary, meaning that everyone agrees with what he said.
so yeah, my interpretation is that that scene was just to show that Luke was starting to tap into the force and was starting to have a new understanding of the world because of the force. not that he picked up the skill of deflecting blaster bolts, which i don’t think he did.
and it’s absurd to me to say that he used the force more than as a guide for his instincts and feelings in the trench run when he blew up the death star.
fried dick pasta
exactly. i absolutely hate most of what’s in TFA from the moment the Falcon appears until the end, while i’m ok with TLJ. everything that i’m arguing has been about the ST in general, not just TLJ.
i drink coffee without anything in it.
brazilian coffee > american coffee
it would be a pretty terrible explanation too.
about everything but
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After that, Batman
i never drink any kind of milk.
i personally don’t think that being a jedi means being good at using the force and that alone. but it is true that the way it’s presented in the original 6 movies, one has to be really in line with the jedi ways if one wants to have good control over the force. or, of course, the quick and easy and seductive dark side path. rey’s skills didn’t progress like that. in fact they progressed without her making any sort of effort or sacrifice or such which feels reeeeally weird to me and to some, and to us that’s the problem here (i think).
And I found this quote from Abrams:
“For me when I heard Obi-Wan say that the Force surrounds us and binds us all together, there was no judgement about who you were. This was something that we could all access. Being strong with the Force didn’t mean something scientific, it meant something spiritual. It meant someone who could believe, someone who could reach down to the depths of your feelings and follow this primal energy that was flowing through all of us. I mean, that’s what was said in that first film! And there I am sitting in the theater at almost 11 years old and that was a powerful notion. And I think this is what your point was, we would like to believe that when shit gets serious, that you could harness that Force I was told surrounds not just some of us but every living thing. And so, I really feel like the assumption that any character needs to have inherited a certain number of midi-chlorians or needs to be part of a bloodline. It’s not that I don’t believe that as part of the canon, I’m just saying that at 11 years old, that wasn’t where my heart was. And so I respect and adhere to the canon but I also say that the Force has always seemed to me to be more inclusive and stronger than that.”from https://www.slashfilm.com/jj-abrams-interview-star-wars-the-force-awakens/
to have the force and have some sort of force potential is pretty different from controlling the force.
Lucas changed his own rules with each new movie he made. If new creators aren’t allowed to expand our understanding of the universe as Lucas did, why even make new films?
exactly. they should never have made new films period.
Lucas had decided to do treatments for the sequels so this trilogy is his doing even if he isn’t doing more than advise them. Abrams and Kasdan met with Lucas to go over what and was not possible with the force so if you don’t like the result, I suggest you take up with GL himself. He okayed that aspect of what they had planned.
what does this have to do with what i said? i said the ST should never have been made since its idea was abandoned in the 80s, not that it should’ve been made by Lucas.
and we can’t be sure of his involvement in the making of the ST, nothing has been confirmed. some sources say that TFA was somewhat inspired by his treatments but he claimed right after (or right before) TFA’s release that JJ and friends had thrown his ideas in the trash can, so who knows.
Lucas changed his own rules with each new movie he made. If new creators aren’t allowed to expand our understanding of the universe as Lucas did, why even make new films?
exactly. they should never have made new films period.
I often suspect this is how many feel but they often pretend that’s not the case. Appreciate the honesty.
had an mfm/de moment there, but what i meant is that i never really wanted more star wars. i mean, i did, but that was part of the fun, sort of.
but i’m glad we got more star wars at the same time. stuff like frink’s daughters dressed as rey makes me so happy that i really don’t care if i enjoy the new movies or not.
and lucas was heavily criticized for comtradicting himself. does that excuse other creators contradicting some stuff that came before? imo no it doesn’t.
Lucas changed his own rules with each new movie he made. If new creators aren’t allowed to expand our understanding of the universe as Lucas did, why even make new films?
exactly. they should never have made new films period.