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Chewy72

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10-Nov-2006
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7-Jun-2021
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Post
#257548
Topic
Question about the Prequels
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257548/action/topic#257548
Time
I think what this thread has shown is that there is no middle ground on the internet when it comes to the PT, and that is a real shame.

What I have noticed on other SW websites is that many fans have dug in and they are both on the extreme of both sides. So what has happened is there is this perception to many who post that the PT are either shit or the second coming to EVERY SW fan, and that just isn't true.

I think the majority of SW fans, even OT fans, like the PT movies, but don't love em either. I think most SW fans recognize that the OT movies are better, that ANH/ESB are probably the most beloved, and the other 4 have some real great moments, and some pretty bad moments too.

The problem is the SE/OT has screwed everything up in being a SW fan, cause now a SW fan is forced to chose which version he or she likes? Now that wouldn't be a problem if both versions came out in high quality on every release like Lord of the Rings, the Upcoming Superman movies, and Terminator 2 DVD's. I really love the Theatrical Versions of The Lord of the Rings, but most of my friends like the Extended Versions, but we both have the opportunity to watch them in great quality, so who cares?

With the SE/O-OT, it has drawn into the PT as part of the debate of 'my movies are better then yours!' And that is why an O-OT is probably so hostile to the PT, cause they feel that is a part of the SE/saga versions that Lucas wants EVERYONE to watch.

I will say it again, if Lucas never changed the OT back in '97, we wouldn't have to deal with any of this shit. There would 6 SW movies on DVD right now in great quality, and it would be up to the viewer to chose which movies they love and want to buy, not which versions. I say this cause for many years I had friends who HATED ROTJ and only recognized ANH/ESB as their saga, but they never had a problem buying OT Boxsets on VHS because ANH/ESB were still the same movies, and weren't drastically changed, except for the Episode IV crawl and some very minor tweaks by Lucas.

There is nothing wrong with loving the PT, and don't be ashamed to say it, but I just find it sad that there are essentially 9 versions of SW films that we are all battling over, when there should have been 6.
Post
#257531
Topic
Where do I go from here as a SW fan?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257531/action/topic#257531
Time
Originally posted by: JediRandyand this tech-nerd hubris of a nonanamorphic DVD what has LFL really done for people to act like he's the Jeff Dahmer of movie makers?


Dude, go check every DVD that you will buy this year, and let me know if any of them are Non-Anamorphic? It isn't about tech lingo or anything, it is about putting out DVD's in DVD quality circa 2006, and the bottom line is nobody releases an A type movie in this quality. The fact that I can watch Gigl in Anamorphic Video and I cant with the O-OT should answer your question why so many people are mad.


Post
#257334
Topic
Where do I go from here as a SW fan?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257334/action/topic#257334
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
It looks worse than a laserdisc on that same TV?

To me the point of this September release is so I don't have to watch them on stretched out VHS tapes, or Laserdiscs you have to flip a couple of times for each movie.

To me this is better than it was.



DUDE ITS FUCKIN DVD!!!!!! Not Laserdisk!!! This is got to be the dumbest back and forth conversation. Peace out and enjoy grainy DVD's while the rest of the world watches their other movies in Anamorphic DVD quality.
Post
#257328
Topic
Where do I go from here as a SW fan?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257328/action/topic#257328
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I just remember the day I got my laserdiscs of the O-OT, thinking that it would never get any better than that.

Now I'm hearing people say it's bad to the point of being torturous.

It just seems to me that to a certain extent, Lucas isn't the only one who is pretending the O-OT doesn't exist anymore.


So what is the point of getting a DVD player, if you are getting Laserdisk quality? I mean why do we even need any new SW movies released on home format, cause you can get the SE on Laserdisk too? Dude, I have been reading your arguments on these boards since I joined up, and that has to be the lamest answer i ever heard. By your logic, why are any DVD's anamorphic anyway? Why are DVD's put out in Dolby Digital 5.1, or DTS for that matter. Why even have a DVD format if you can't get DVD quality. Are you being serious, or do you really feel this way, cause this isn't about gusher or basher views, it is about simple logic if I buy something on DVD, I expect DVD quality ala 2006.
Post
#257320
Topic
Where do I go from here as a SW fan?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257320/action/topic#257320
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
You could always watch the copies of the O-OT he released so far. I know it's not anamorphic, but it's closer to what many of you want than the SE is right?


Gomer, I don't know if you have a HD TV, but this release looks like crap. I mean it looks like Laserdisk, cause it is taken from a laserdisk master, and that is why it looks so average.

For me and I can't speak for anyone else here, but I can't enjoy SW movies anymore without something annoying me when I pop in a SW movie in the DVD player.

1. If I choose to watch the O-OT DVDs, I have to watch some archaic quality that was great 13 years ago, and I think of Superman: The Movie, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and Lord of the Rings DVD's I have, and think what the O-OT would look like if they had those masters.

2. If I choose to watch the SE movies, I have to put up with all the shit Lucas has put in each movie which takes me right out, (Bad Jabba CG, Greedo shooting first, Vader arrival on the destroyer in ESB taken right from ROTJ! JediRocks and Hayden in ROTJ) And Lucas took out Lukes wink to Anakin, Yoda, and Ben in the SE, why would he do that?

3. If I pop in the PT to try to see the story 1-6, you get Jar Jar acting like the Three Stooges for 2 hours in TPM, Anakin/Padme cheesy love story in AOTC, and The uncompelling 'turn scene' in ROTS.

There is no possible way I can totally enjoy a SW movie anymore without some bullshit that Lucas has done to the saga since 1997. Until the O-OT comes out in great quality like every DVD on the market, I will always think of SW as how George Lucas fucked up a good thing.

Post
#256647
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256647/action/topic#256647
Time
Gomer, I am not saying I want Luke, Leia, and Han Part 2 in the PT, cause that would be redundant and just come off as very transparent.

I don't fault Lucas on the story of the PT, I actually like it, and though the turn is pretty bad, and Padme losing the will to live is contrived, that is all stuff that I would be able to live with had I some attachment to the characters. For instance in ROTJ, I never like that Luke/Leia are siblings, but at that point I was not going to nitpick, and just accepted it and from then on never had a problem. The bottom line is Lucas had me by ROTJ, and he could have done anything without it being too ridiculous.

Anakin had a chance of being the dominant character of the saga in terms of depth compared to the OT characters. Lucas actually got Anakin right with TPM, he is a good kid, or the golden boy as I call him. But for some reason Lucas made Anakin very unlikable in AOTC, and goes against everything he did in TPM.

Anakin should not have been unlikable until he turned, and that would be the whole tragedy, you have this character you love for 2 1/2 movies does something stupid, and you shake your head on why he does it. But now you have this character who I just didn't like in AOTC & ROTS do something stupid, and now my reaction, "Good, he deserved everything he got on Mustafar."

That isn't a tragedy, that isn't an anti-hero, an anti-hero is Dirty Harry played by Clint Eastwood, not Luke Skywalker. An anti-hero is a guy who is beloved by the audience, but you do question the things he does cause he may be arrogant, he may take some liberties with the law, and he may be just as evil as the bad guys in some ways, buy in the end he is doing it for the good guys, so you may not agree with his methods, but you sure as hell understand.

If Dirty Harry is unlikable in that movie, then the movie fails miserably. The whole time you think of Eastwood as this rogue cop, but there is just something you love about his pozazz and charisma that gives him leeway to take matters in his own hands. For Anakin, he just never grabbed me in AOTC/ROTS, and I just couldn't root for him, and that is where Lucas really dropped the ball.
Post
#256640
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256640/action/topic#256640
Time
Gomer, putting aside all the details that I see that everyone has argued here: Midiclorians, Anakin as an 8 year old, QuiGon finding Anakin, Anakins turn, etc.

For me and I can only speak for myself, it is the characters that really make me think the PT movies are OK instead of great. I just can't grasp to any of the characters other then ObiWan in someways, but Anakin & Padme are the key to the trilogy, you have to care about them, their fate, their tragedy.

For me, I watch the PT movies and enjoy the story cause it ties into the OT, but they just don't hit on an emotional level that the OT does, and that is cause of the characters, and I think that is the dirty little secret that everyone misses.

I think ROTJ is a good sequel, but not as great as ANH/ESB, but I love it just as much, cause of those characters that Lucas developed. Lucas could have made 7,8,9 of Fisher, Ford, and Hamill with the same quality as ROTJ and I think I would have still loved the movies, that is the power of characters in movies for me personally.

The PT was going to be tough cause it has to introduce new characters or younger characters from the OT movies, but they were all DIFFERENT ACTORS, and that is huge for a new set of movies to be tied into ones that have utterly lovable characters. And it has nothing to do with the fact that they are not the ultimate good guy characters, cause the PT was not going to be that type of trilogy.

But I don't know how you could convince me that I am wrong about the PT movies, when I have zero attachment to Anakin/Padme for 3 movies, cause I just feel you have to care about the characters, and then the director has the viewer for 2 hours.

Characters, I still believe it is the biggest failure of the PT, and everyone has an opinion: Do I care about these characters or not?
Post
#256632
Topic
Could the 2006 DVDs become collector's items?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256632/action/topic#256632
Time
If Lucas never releases them ever again, then they will become a collectors item, but not in a monetary sense. 10 years from now after the 2007 SE with more changes, and in say 2011 BlueRay HD-DVD with even more changes, alot of new fans may be curious as to what the original version, now 5 versions ago looked like, so for curiosities sake, they may buy them on ebay just to have them as a completist SW fan would want.

I still think they will be released fully remastered, cause the Superman II: Donnor cut is coming out next week, and that took 25 years for fans of this supposed edit to see the light.

Just remember guys, it aint about vision, it is about money, whether it be the release last September, or the Donnor Cut, these movies are released for one reason only: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Post
#256613
Topic
Where do I go from here as a SW fan?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256613/action/topic#256613
Time
Originally posted by: JamesEightBitStar
I third JediRandy's opinion. Actually, I think I said something similar before.

To wit, it annoys me that people talk about what Star Wars has become, yet continue to support it anyway. It reminds me of 2004, everyone was saying that they were gonna boycott the OT boxed sets for not including the original theatrical versions... but then several people caved in and decided they just HAD to have those movies, even if it wasn't in a form they wanted. And by giving in, they basically lifted their skirts and took off their panties for Lucas, which allows the man with the many chins to continue to manipulate the fanbase.

Personally, I would like nothing more than to see the death of the Star Wars franchise--no more novels, video games, or whatever. We've had too many of them already. It's time to call it quits.

But I suppose if stupid fans can keep Star Trek going long after it became generic, unwatchable trash, they can keep Star Wars going as well.



But you guys keep missing the point of my post, it never had to get to this, meaning he never had to split the fanbase like this, and that is really sad to me.

Whether you want to say he doesn't owe us anything, or you have to take what you get, etc. I am just talking on a fundamental love for SW, not this boycotting shit, not this venemous shit on Lucas, it is just a fundamental love for the saga that isn't there anymore when it is talked about, and that is because I love the versions that really dont' exist to Lucas anymore, or will never be on TV. When I see ROTJ on, I think of Hayden ruining the ending, and sorry I feel that way, but I watched ROTJ hundreds of times in my life with one ending, I just can't enjoy the new one.

For JediRandy and JamesBitEightStar, or anyone else who has posted in agreement with them, I ask you one question, and I am not being snide at all. If Lucas never touched the OT back in 1997, do you think SW would have any less fans now that it already has?

My point is that anyone who loves the SE had to fall in love with the O-OT, so my theory is that they would have never argued that Hayden should be in ROTJ or Jabba should be in ANH cause it never would have come up in the debate. I can't remember anytime from 77-96 of a SW fans saying, "I am starting to lose interest in these movies, and I hope to god they get updated to Terminator 2 Special Effects, or even when Jurassic Park shocked the movie business with its realistic looking Dinosaurs.

My whole point of this thread is not for anyone to cry for me or anyone else here, I am plainly stating that Lucas divided a fan base, and probably the biggest fanbase in the history movies and he really didn't need to at all. If Lucas never changed the movies in 1997 and Cinemax was showing the PT & OOT in HD, I probably would have watched all 6 cause then it would be my decision to take it or leave it with any movies i had a problem with.

Post
#256503
Topic
Where do I go from here as a SW fan?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256503/action/topic#256503
Time
Originally posted by: JamesEightBitStar
Where do you go?

Wherever your feet take you.

Seriously... I love the O-OT but it's not my life. If I want more Star Wars, there's the video games, maybe the novels and comics. There's a lot of pre-SE material in that venue available.

Personally, I'd start searching out other things to love. If a path seems to be drawing to a close, it's time to walk a new path.



Dude, I am not saying I wanna commit suicide or even equating it to the problems in the world we face everyday, it is just a set of movies. I am saying this in the context of enjoying the movies, and that is it. This is a SW page, so even though it sounds real serious in the context of SW talk, it is pretty trivial in our everyday lives.

The fact is I love the OOT more then any other set of movies, and I will even go as far to say that SW is my favorite movie of all-time, so falling in love is something you can't do, it is something that just happens.

I just feel it is a real bummer that the set of movies that I grew up with and still love today are not the versions I love anymore. There will be a saga boxset next year to commerorate 30 years of SW, and there is a big chance that they will only contain SE/PT versions. It is just sad there is a split of fanbase of such a beloved set of movies, and one of those fanbases is truly second class now.
Post
#256463
Topic
Where do I go from here as a SW fan?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256463/action/topic#256463
Time
Originally posted by: Sluggo
Where do you go? Man, you are already here.



I hear ya, I guess it just really bothered me that a SW marathon was on this weekend, and I didn't have the urge to watch it cause I just don't like the PT enough, and I can't watch the SE. If this were 15 years ago, and Cinemax was showing the O-OT in HD for the first time, it would have been so awesome.

Now for a group of O-OT fans like us, everything with SW now is a downer.
Post
#256458
Topic
Where do I go from here as a SW fan?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256458/action/topic#256458
Time
This is a long biography of how I came back to the O-OT if anyone is interested, and it got me wondering......

I have to say, and I am not afraid to admit this, Lucas pulled the wool over me for many years with the SE, and it almost worked in his suppression of the O-OT.

I grew up loving the OT from 77-83, as I was hooked with SW in 1977. I watched the OT through the years on HBO, Cable, and Video, but didn't watch them alot in the 90's. When the SE came out in 1997, I enjoyed the movies in the theaters, and did notice some of the obvious changes like Han Shooting first, but it had been so long since I really watched the O-OT versions, I kinda forgot HOW different they are, especially SW from 1977.

As the PT was coming out I was sort of a fan, but that has faded, but I just wanted the OT on DVD, and didn't care about whether it be SE or not. So in 2004 I bought the SE DVD's and I put on ROTJ and noticed Hayden in ROTJ!!!!!! WTF? Just that one change there really pissed me off, and now I started to understand the O-OT fans annoyance of these changes.

So I bought some bootlegs right after the 2004 DVD's came out, and I watched them and was astounded of how much was changed, and how much more gritty the O-OT versions were, and how ridiculous the CG really made these 1970's/80's movies.

All of the sudden I started hating the SE, cause I finally realized how unnecesary all these changes were, and how ridiculous the ones that were so obvious were too. I forgot about, "Bring my shuttle!" I forgot about how much better pacing SW is without Jabba in it, and I forgot about how much better pacing ESB is without Vader arrival after Cloud City.

The reason I signed up here is I was watching the Cinemax HD SW marathon this weekend and realized that I am not really part of the fanbase anymore, and that is really sad. The O-OT movies are still great to me, but if you think about it, the future of SW is the OT/SE with probably more changes and the average PT movies.

Where do I go as fan from here? I guess I really hope Lucas remasters the O-OT in great quality with the rumored boxset next year, I buy it for the O-OT movies sort of like the Superman boxset, and call it a career. Pretty sad that Lucas has excluded me when I never asked for anything to be changed.
Post
#256309
Topic
Best battle of the Original Trilogy?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256309/action/topic#256309
Time
The death star battle in ANH, or excuse me Star Wars, cause it has a mix of everything: Drama, Tension, Seriousness, Great Action, and elation.

The battle is the greatest in scifi movies, IMO, cause it is so realistic since they used old dog fighting footage from WWII and tried to recreate many of the moves with the X-Wing fighters. It is also great, cause you are in Lukes seat the whole time, and that is what movies are about, you are suppose be living inside that character through the movie, and when he blows up the death star, it is probably the greatest moment in movie history for me.
Post
#256296
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256296/action/topic#256296
Time
Jumpman, another way of looking at is think of it this way:

Many fans growing up watched the OT for Han Solo, because he was so cool and got attached to that character. Many fans, mostly females, loved Leias feistiness and got attached to her for 3 movies. Many fans like myself wanted to be Luke Skywalker from the minute he leaves Tatooine, not cause he is a jedi, just cause ANH was about achieving bigger things in life, and Luke achieved that at the end of the movie.

So now you watch the saga 1-6, and you are one of those fans who never fell in love with why Darth Vader came to be, cause you thought he was cool, but being a bad guy is all he ever was to you. No matter how great or crappy the movies are made, what characters can you follow for 1-3? If you follow Padme, she is dead by Episode III, and is only mentioned once in 4-6. What Lucas forgot by making this a linear story of Darth Vader was that ALL of the characters in the OT was just as key as the mythology, action, and special effects, and by making the saga solely about Anakin forces the viewer to really love his story for 6 movies, and if you do, I guarantee you are a saga fan.
Post
#256292
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256292/action/topic#256292
Time
Originally posted by:Jumpman

With the addition of the Prequels, Lucas has created a generational gap in his Saga. I personally feel that that was going to inevitable anyway.



This is true, just like the new Superman will have its divisions from the Christopher Reeves movies, but in saying that, there is a reason IMO that the OT will always appeal to a wider audience.

The PT or the saga now 1-6 is really the character arc of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, cause that is exactly what Lucas wants the saga now to be viewed as, not as Lukes story anymore, not as rebels vs empire which was more prevailant in the OT days, but as Lucas says in the ROTS commentary, "The movies are meant to be watched 1-6 as the tragedy of Darth Vader."

The reason the OT appealed to a wide range of fans who necessarily weren't scifi diehards is because the characters were in one sense 'normal' or relatable to the common folk. The PT movies or the story of Anakin now really is more geared for a niche scifi audience, cause a character like Han Solo who was vastly popular in the OT days are really just a minor figure to the saga 1-6 now.

Lucas chose to focus the saga 1-6 now and the key players are: Luke, Anakin, Kenobi, Yoda, and Palpatine, as they in a sense are dominant figures in the 6 movies even though their screentime is sparce at times.

When watching the saga now 1-6, the parts of rebels vs empire are just minor plots to the real story in ROTJ: Luke/Vader/Emperor which is now the dominant scene in the saga rather then Luke blowing up the death star as that was probably a fav of so many fans even after the OT was finished.

Lucas changed the context of the OT movies now and there are essentially two stories going on in the OT, and for fans of the saga 1-6, the second half of ESB & ROTJ will be the real story, as most of ANH, the first hour of ESB, and the 40 minute rescue of Han at Jabbas Palace just wont fit into the real story of Luke/Vader/Emperor confrontation.

So what has happened now is Lucas is pinning on the saga for fans to fall in love with the Darth Vader story, not the other characters like Han & Leia or the rebellion/empire plot. To enjoy the saga 1-6, you have to be interested in Darth Vader/Anakin, you have to like that story, cause that is really what the saga is about now, and that will definitely limit the overall fans cause it is so cut and dry.

The OT was beloved by so many cause there was so many things you can follow for 3 movies: Han Solo being the coolest M-F'er in the galaxy, Luke being the ultimate good guy, Darth Vader being the ultimate bad guy, and Leia being a good role model for young girls, or simply falling in love with the good vs evil macro story of the rebels vs empire.

With the PT, you do have secondary characters and the rise of the empire, but that is all put out as the secondary story to Anakins, so what you will have in the future is a fanbase of Anakin/Darth Vader story lovers, and that is it, and that is why you have this huge division on line because there is a set of fans who love the Darth Vader story, but there is also this huge majority that think he got TOO much time, and the fact that the saga is his story now has turned them off.

I know it did for me cause Lucas originally did the PT as just a backstory on how Darth Vader came to be, but I never thought he would twist the OT story as a linear story of the Tragedy of Darth Vader, cause if he wrote The Original SW with that story in mind, I know I would have never been a diehard.