Chewy72

I think the dems need to read their history of the American Political System of the past 20 years when they govern:  Don't overreach!

Clinton won in 1992 and the dems had the whole congress.  They moved way left, and the people threw them out for a republican congress in 1994.  The republicans went way right in 1995 and shut down the government, and Clinton sailed to reelection in 1996.  Bush won in 2000 and then in 2004 and had a huge majority in congress, and went way right in 2005, and after Katrina and the War, they lost the congess in 2006, and now the congress is almost exactly the way it was back in 1992 when Clinton became President.  Does anyone notice a trend here? 

Hopefully Obama and the dems govern like centrists, cause the American people don't ever like when the parties try to appease their base.  It will be interesting.....

I used to watch all these shows back in the 90's, but now they are so one sided I can't watch them anymore.  Sure the shows always tilted one way, as Chris Matthews leaned to the left, O'Reilly to the right, but now the shows are just propaganda for each candidate.

Turn on Fox and they are burying Obama, turn on MSNBC and they are burying McCain, and these are now made just to preach to the choir.  The audience for these shows are people who have already made up their mind on their vote and just want to hear things from 'their' point of view.

In the old days, there would be good debate on these shows, there would be objective analysis on both sides, now it comes down to if you are voting for McCain, turn on Fox.  If you are voting for Obama, turn on MSNBC.

I can't wait til this shit is over, because myself being an independent who doesn't drink the kool-aid for either side, I can hopefully start having  a debate with friends instead of hearing their bull shit talking points, because neither side wants to say anything bad about their candidate.  No matter who wins tonight, can I just ask the partisans on both sides to be civil and actually look at things objectively instead of drinking the kool aid from your party so we can solve the problems of this country.

negative1 said:

i think you're agreeing with some of what i was saying..

but i stand by my original assertion that the popularity of the 'star wars' FILMS WAS A FAD,

because by it's very nature, they only came out for awhile, were only popular for a short time,

and were promptly forgotten until their rereleases (SE), and releases on other media..

 later

-1

 

A movie that is a fad is 'Independence Day' because that was a huge hit in 1996, the #1 movie that year, and then 10-12 years later alot of people look back on that film and realize it was a cheesy piece of crap with cool effects at the time.  The only people that like it now describe it as a guilty pleasure movie.

Star Wars wasn't a fad because the movie stood the test of time.  I won't even go into the sequels, prequels, SE, etc.  The original movie is like The Wizard of Oz, it is truly timeless in a movie sense, that generations and generations of people will continue to fall in love with the movie.  The Sequels/Prequels/ are for just SW geeks, as there are so many people I know that love the original, and don't like anything else from the series, or would say ESB & ROTJ are OK.

I understand what your saying that the merchandising dried up after around 1985, but that doesn't make it a fad, because if you say that, then you have to say every movie is a fad, because they hit the theater, they either connect or not with the public, and then either it becomes a classic and people watch it forever, it becomes a good movie that will always be on cable, or a shit movie that is forgotten within the year.  That is just the nature of movies.

Fads are things that are popular that are good for a year, but the masses turn against it and a backlash occurs.  Just think of Parachute Pants in the mid 80's, every kid I know had them in 1985, but 1987 you would be an asshole if you had a pair of them. 

And for the record, SW was not forgotten after 1985 from the fanbase, as the VHS releases in the late 80's and early 90's, before the SE releases, always topped the sales.  Heck, everyone I know got a VCR in the 80's to get Star Wars and Raiders on VHS!

negative1 said:

when star wars came out it was a fad, and so were the two sequels,

people forget about  them in the mid 80's after 'return of the jedi',

and continued to forget about them until the late 90's when the SE

versions came out... then they came back, and now are stronger than ever..

 

Dude, you seriously need to go back in time and understand what happened during the days of The Original Trilogy.  First of all it wasn't a fad, they were pop culture, and remembered years later.  I don't know if you are American or not, but our President, Ronald Reagan, called our defense system to block Nuclear Weapons, "Star Wars" and he would say in many speeches during his presidency about the Russians, "They are the Evil Empire, and the force is on our side." 

Now why would he do that?  Because EVERYONE knew what those words meant, because EVERYONE loved Star Wars, as that is why it was the highest grossing movie of all time until ET broke that record in 1982, and still remains the top 5 even today.

As for after Jedi, sure it wasn't on everyones mind everyday, but there were no more movies, why should it?   But in 1987, a movie called Spaceballs did a spoof of Star Wars and was a hit with characters like Lord Helmet and Princess Vespa.

Sure the SE & PT brought back SW in a mainstream way, but that happens when any sequel comes out years later.   I bet when The Hobbit comes out in 2 years, Lord of the Rings mania will be in full force again, but as I said, that is just the way it is with movie series.

But Star Wars was never a fad, cause a fad goes away, and doesn't have continuous VHS releases in the late 80's and early 90's of The Original Trilogy that is in the top 5 sales every year on VHS, a fad is Bell-Bottoms, something that is popular that is gone within a year and never sees the light again.

negative1 said:

and on top of that, they refuse to stop confusing things, now with

a tv show, and a fourth movie....ughhhhhhhhhh... just like aliens

deteriorated into straight-to-video (or it should have)..

the terminator franchise is being killed off, and it started with the weak plot from the 2nd movie..

 

later

-1

For a guy that bitches at people taking the new SW stuff too seriously, I think you are doing EXACTLY the same with the Terminator franchise.  As you have said to others who criticize the PT and the new TV show, maybe YOU need to lighten up and just forget about the stuff you hate and just enjoy the Original Terminator.  Remember the thread is about bad sequels, so there is no need to go on a tirade on how much you hate the TV show and spinoffs.

I love the irony from you guys like you sometimes:)

Scruffy said:

The common denominator here is that these series crashed after the original creative talent left, or was dismissed. Not so with Star Wars: George Lucas was always there. It is with some perverse delight that I imagine the series might have been better had Lucas relinquished more control in the 1990s. Or maybe it would've been much worse. There's really no way to know.

 Thats a fair point, but then I will bring up movies series that got worse with the original creator:

Lethal Weapon IV:  All of them were directed by Richard Donnor and this one totally sucked.

Indy IV:  Spielberg and Lucas still at the helm, as this was ridiculous, and the worst of the 4 Indy movies.

Rocky V:  Though Rocky VI sorta redeemed the series, this movie left a bad taste in my mouth the minute I walked out of the theater.  I have yet to watch again.

These movies were all made years after the original, and all the creators were well past their prime.  As I said, post 1983 SW pretty much sucks, but if you drag these movies series past 3 movies, they all usually start sucking too.

negative1 said:

sorry, only the 1st was Ok, and the 2nd was good, i never liked any of the rest of them..

although, once again, the originals are on laserdisc only..

you can only get the new special editions with the cleaned up effects on DVD, i think.. 

 i havent seen to many complaints about that either..

Actually you are wrong on this negative 1.

Star Trek II, III, IV, V, VI, Generations, First Contact, and Insurrection were released barebone DVD versions from 1998-2000 with just the movie and trailer, and all were the original verison.

Then when they release Star Trek: The Movie in 2001, that is the first one to be given the 'Lucas SE treatment' with updated effects and then Star Trek II & III were released as extended editions, no spruced up effects, just a few minutes of scenes from the cutting floor.

Listen, when you say 'not too many complaints,' that is such a lame answer, because on one hand I agree that alot of people don't see the movies enough to know the special edition from the original version of Star Wars, Star Trek, T2, Lord of the Rings, ET, but that still doesn't make it right that people shouldn't get both versions to chose from when buying the movie on DVD. 

Most people wouldn't have cared about the SE if Lucas just released both in 2004 fully remastered.  I have 3 versions of T2 on DVD from the 2000 release, and I like to watch the extended version, rather then the theatrical version, so that moral of the story for this is just give people the option to watch whatever version they enjoy.

I just never understood why Lucas is so steadfast in burying the OOT, because it is only SW fans that really care, and the average person isn't going to think any better or less of what version they watch.  I mean is someone really going to fall in love with the  Star Wars movies because of any special edition effects updates made in 97 or 2004?  Its like saying people wont like The Wizard of Oz in 2008 because the sets look like sets from 1939, the movie is still a classic.

Hunter 6, I totally agree with you about the new 'look' of DVD and BluRay movies.

The faces are too red, and the colors are too bright on most DVD's.   I can't remember what movies looked like in the 70's/early 80's because I was too young, but I am very torn on the look of these movies. 

I have an RCA HDTV and was wondering how you guys would you adjust your settings for the GOUT?

Black Level?

Color?

Contrast?

Sharpness?

Color Warmth?

bkev said:

Jeez... opinions are opinions, guys. I thought we were different than "them"... that we allowed people to have their opinions without mkaing fun of them and such.

 

Come on bkev, if negative 1 didn't talk down to everybody, nobody would give a crap what his views were.  There is alot of people who posted on here that have enjoyed the TV series, but I don't mock them, but negative 1 throws out these ridiculous arguments because we don't make movies we don't 'truly understand' why a movie is great (of course I am paraphrasing) 

Someone posted that Star Wars won 7 Academy Awards in 1977, and Negative 1 shoved it off saying no one cared about those awards and it wasn't the reason the movie was great.  One of them that won was 'Best Original Score'  won by John Williams which is a HUGE reason why people loved Star Wars in 1977 and continue to love all the movies today.  Star Wars movies would not be the same without the great  score as I would defy anyone to watch the original SW trailer from 1976 without the John Williams music, as it had a vastly different tone.

I was just trying to have some fun with Negative 1, because he definitely likes to fuck with some posters here and get them all up in a tizzy.  But I will back off because I respect this site.

C3PX said:

Hey, hey, watch your language young man! What would your mommy say about you using such teenage level terminology?

I have already been yelled at by my mommy, and my penalty is no Clone Wars TV series for 2 weeks.  I won't have to worry cause I can come to OT.com and hear Negative 1 gush all about how this is the greatest TV show in the history of TV!

Ok, back to my flashcards:)

negative1 said:

 oh, you're already a happy member of that board, i see..

good, keep up the great work..!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ha ha..

later

-1

It's a great message board, and I hope you can join to talk SW!  Last night, after our mommies made us finish our vegetables at dinner, we were allowed to hang out at Johnny's house and we watched the Clone Wars show.  It was AWESOME!!!!  Lots of action!!!  Tons of CGI!!!  But we are waiting for Jar Jar Binks, as I can't wait til he makes his first appearance, cause he is so fricking funny!!!  Gotta go to study now, got a big test on fractions on Monday:)

negative1 said:

episode 4 just blew me away... amazing..

 

they just keep getting better and better..

 

way more action, lots of  grievous...

 

tense moments..

 

a very good ending to the 3 story arc..

and the droid humor even made sense this time, because

of how cynical they are about being destroyed all the time.

 

and to think the show is just starting to get good..

 

nice seeing amidala again, and yes even c3po briefly (annoying)...

 

WOW!!!!!!!!!! the brief light saber battles, seeing the

obi-wans force powers, and anakins development also..

 

obi-wan and anakin are a great team.....

 

later

-1

 Here is a link to a great site that you can talk SW with many who feel the same way:

www.4thgraderswhofinishtheirsocialstudieshomeworkearlywholovetheclonewarsseries.com

No message

negative1 said:

there were plenty of new fans for Star Wars SE,

so that seemed to work...were those considered to be kids movies?

 

and i see you're still here talking about it..

and probably will even when more episodes come out..

 

later

-1

I don't understand you analogy,  you referred to the PT bringing in a new generation of fans in the previous post, not the old movies or even the SE??????

Of course when the SE were released in 1997, a whole new generation of fans got into SW, but do you really think because Han didn't shoot first anymore, that brought them in in droves???  As I said if you want to go back and read my post again, The OT movies, or even just the Original SW would bring in a new generation of SW fans if it were the only SW movies made today.  The movies are timeless and appeal to any type of movie fan, as people like me who never really loved anything that was from the Scifi genre, ended up falling in love with the series.

And as for you smart ass remark, "well, you're hear talking about it...."  doesn't mean I think it is any good.  I log onto this site in hopes that the OOT is released on DVD in better quality then the 2006 release, or released on BluRay.  And being the SW fan that I am, I was intrigued because I did like the Clone Wars TV Series in 2003-2004 leading up to Episode III, but I watched the first two episodes, and thought they were childish beyond belief, so I am just being honest, or do I just have to hide my true feelings and say, "EVERYTHING LUCAS DOES IS GREAT:)"

Come on Negative 1 repeat after me while we all walk like zombies, "EVERYTHING LUCAS DOES IS GREAT!!!!!!!"

negative1 said:

 much like the prequels pulled in a new generation of fans,

so will the tv shows pull in another generation of star wars fans..

 

later

-1

 Awesome, everyone can log into www.originaltrilogy.com everyday to talk about all the new stuff in SW-ville that now only appeals to 5 year olds!  I waiting for you Negative 1 to start a thread on Dora The Explorer, Spongebob, and Drake & Josh so we can discuss why we all dont understand the high quality of those shows because they are loved by little kids too:)

For the record, if the PT was never made, the OT or atleast the Original Star Wars would have brought in a whole new generation of fans because the movie is timeless like The Wizard of Oz.  It would be like saying that Indiana Jones IV brought in a whole new generation of Indy fans, despite the fact that Raiders would do just fine on its own in bringing a new generation of fans in without the sequels.

C3PX said:

 The SW PT had PLENTY of room for surprises, but in the end the only surprising thing was how each episode managed to be worse than the last.

That is a classic quote that I can't argue with!  Though we will agree to disagree about the new Terminator show, we can always come together that the PT sucked!

C3PX said:

I think the prequel "flaw" everybody always talks about, it hardly as much of a flaw as some would have you think. Like, has already been said, it isn't the destination, it is the ride. Sure, we knew Anakin would be Darth Vader, and we knew Obi-Wan would survive and Mace Windu would die. Some people use this as a arguement "well of course the SW PT couldn't be good, you already knew what would happen!" Of course you did, but the ride could have still been enjoyable.

Have you ever been to a James Bond movie and honestly felt that Bond was in any real danger? You knew he would escape, you just never knew how. And yet those scenes still had a lot of tension to them. Still everytime I see Goldfinger's lazer heading toward Bond's crotch I squirm in my chair, just a little.

See, I would have rather seen Episodes 7,8,9 instead of the Prequels any day of the week.  Lucas could have done anything with the story after Jedi, he could have gone anyway with the characters, and I actually think it would have been a better trilogy, even with Lucas's negatives as a director these days.

The problem with these prequel shows/movies is that you get locked into the story, and hurts the storytelling end.  The only way to throw a twist in there is to usually hurt the continuity with the existing story.  So I was in shock that Padme died at childbirth, only because Leia said she died while very young in Jedi!

Now flashbacks always works in movies, cause you are essentially glossing over anything specific and just giving a general backround of where that characters came from, as Godfather II flashbacks work perfect with the present-time storytelling that Pacino is going through as Crime Boss now.

As for James Bond movies, I have never been interested in them, and the reason I do hate them is that you know that the character will survive, as it is always a ridiculous story too.  I will take a movie like Rocky, where he loses at the end, anyday of the week over some action adventure movie that you know what is going to happen the minute the movie starts.

negative1 said:

 

it's not going to stop now, and probably never will..

so you hope for the best, and if you like it great.

if you don't, just ignore it, and pretend it never happened..

 

some people take these movies way too seriously, and too

personally, which is why they get all worked up when someone

criticizes something they like..

 

 

Dude, we are on a message board, please lighten up with the 'people take things way too seriously' babble.

As for forgetting these movies after the original, did you buy the 'Boxset' in 2003?  When it came to DVD, you couldn't buy just Raiders, or just Temple of Doom, or just Last Crusade, you had to buy them all or nothing.  So as I try to forget about those movies, the only way I could watch the classic Raiders of the Lost Ark, was shelling out 70 bucks for the Indiana Jones Trilogy Set:)

Ziz said:

So?  You knew the crew was always going to solve the problem of the week on any of the various Star Trek series but you watched anyway (you=figuratively, not literally).  It's not about IF they succeed or survive, it's about HOW they succeed or survive.

It's the journey, not the destination.

 

In Star Trek II, they do kill off Spock:)

There is a difference between Star Trek and Terminator TV show, in that you already know where everything is leading to, whereas the Star Trek show had the freedom to go anywhere it pleased.

Don't get me wrong, I don't know where the show is going every week, but I think the fatal flaw in all these 'prequel' show/movies is that you are essentially watching a story unfold that you already know what is going to happen.

Now for some people, they love to see how everyone got to where they were, but for me I like stories that are told that head into territory that you don't know where the show will go.  Everytime that Terminator goes after John like it did on the Pier two weeks ago, I knew he would survive. 

 A show about the War with the machines would have been great, as I have always waited for the movies on this story too.  That would be great tension every week, who would survive, would John Connor make it through the war?  How do humans eventually win?  Do they ever win?  It would be alot more interesting this timeline.

IMO

I really thought that they should have done the show with the timeline during the war with the machines, as that would be a really gritty show.  This show just doesn't have any tension cause you know John Connor survives, and it isn't a bad show, but it is kinda like the Prequels, you know where it is going, so there is nothing suspensful unless they screw up the continuity of the original movies like Lucas did to the OT.

The only shows I have loved were the flashbacks from the future with Derek and the female terminator, as that should be the main story of the show.  Oh well...

negative1 said:

aha... more good news about the next indiana jones..

 

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2008/10/harrison-ford-s.html

 

later

-1

You should have just wrote, 'more news about the next Indiana Jones movie.'  because not everyone wants to see more sequels.  Temple of Doom was OK, Last Crusade was a rehash of Raiders, and Crystal Skull was an utter joke.  Some of us feel that the Indy series should be put into the grave and nailed shut.  Although Raiders is still one of my favorite movies of all-time, so if Lucas could put the RIGHT Indiana Jones movie out on BluRay he may actually get some money from me:)

ESB/ROTJ is totally realistic, and it is pretty scary how they were able to achieve that in those movies.  AOTC/ROTS CGI Yoda is typical of CGI, IT LOOKS FAKE!!!!  Just compare the trilogies, and the OT looks real, and the PT looks real.....fake:)

negative1 said:

really,

 

do all your kids shows have people getting killed on them? is it enjoyable for them? death, destruction, dismemberment?

 

really? wow, you must be pretty indifferent to violence to allow that to be seen by children....

 

later

-1

 

I really think you need to re-read my post, because you totally misunderstood it.  I said that the show was made for kids, and I am cool with that.  But I find it sort of weird for any adult who actually enjoyed this show Friday night.  To each his own, but I still say that Lucas is now TARGETING kids, literally, and it is pretty sad that a bunch of adults are debating a kids show on a message board.  I will say it again, and hopefully you will understand, "Let the kiddies debate this show on their playground at elementary school:) 

negative1 said:

 

maybe someone should actually watch it, before complaining..

 

later

-1

 

Well I DVR'd it and watched it this weekend, and it is made for kids under 8 years old, and I wonder about any of you guys here who are adults and actually like this thing?  Seriously, do you like Pokeman at your age?   The show is a kids show, and lets let the kids talk about it on the playground at lunch instead of on a message board for adults:)