logo Sign In

CO

User Group
Members
Join date
25-Jul-2005
Last activity
22-Apr-2019
Posts
1,568

Post History

Post
#205964
Topic
ITS HAPPENED-- OOT AVAILABLE FROM LUCASFILM
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205964/action/topic#205964
Time
This is just up at Theforce.net! Guys this is finally happening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This September: Original Unaltered Trilogy on DVD

Posted By Dustin on May 3, 2006

Starwars.com has confirmed the rumors from today!

Here's a snippet!

"In response to overwhelming demand, Lucasfilm Ltd. and Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment will release attractively priced individual two-disc releases of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Each release includes the 2004 digitally remastered version of the movie, as well as the original theatrical edition of the film. That means you'll be able to enjoy Star Wars as it first appeared in 1977, Empire in 1980, and Jedi in 1983."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Everyone should pat themselves on the back, "In response to overwhelming demand." That means all the bitching and yelling we did has paid off, it is not about vision, it is about demand, and I guarantee every SW fan buys this, even the SE lovers, because you can't have SW without the original set. Lucas is a genius, and I will not talk ill of him anymore. Sebastian Shaw, welcome back to the SW DVD World!

Post
#205915
Topic
Any truth to this? Lucas is releasing the three unaltered ORIGINAL Star Wars films?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205915/action/topic#205915
Time
I still will take it with a grain of salt, but think about that Lucas has released something to DVD since 2001:

2001 - TPM
2002 - AOTC
2003 - Indiana Jones Trilogy
2004 - Star Wars OT SE
2005 - ROTS
2006 - O-OT?
2007 - 30th Anniversary Box Set with more changes?
2008 - HD-DVD?

Come on, the guy is genius when he wants us to cough up the money.
Post
#205874
Topic
Star Wars Original Trilogy had 'it', but 'it' is hard to explain.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205874/action/topic#205874
Time
To answer my own question, maybe 'it' was the characters? I think the fun of watching these movies is there is a clear side to root for, and the fact that Luke, Leia, and Han are underdogs makes it even more satisfying in the end. I think we all got spoiled in these characters cause they were that perfect for their roles. They had the perfect chemistry, they played off each other so well, it was like we actually knew these characters.

For many of us, including myself, Star Wars '77 was our first movie experience, and I absolutely loved it, so at 5 years old where do I go from there? OK, now I see an awesome sequel to my favorite movie, where do I go from there? OK, I see a very good sequel to end the trilogy, OK where do I go from there? Through the course of everyone's life, we will all have a favorite movie we will see and love before we die, for many of us we saw ours before we were 10 years old! We hit the mountain top so early in our life, maybe there was nothing that was going to top it.

I guess why 'it' works so well is, think about when Luke, Chewy, and Han first rescue Princess Leia in the deathstar, and they starting shooting at the stormtroopers, and within seconds they are all arguing: Leia, "Great plan, did you have a way to get us out?" Han, "He's the brains sweetheart!" I think that is tough thing to pull off when characters first meet each other cause dialogue like that could come off as forced to try to get a laugh, but for some reason even though Leia has just met Han & Luke, I think her barking at them, and saying she is in charge, is one of the great exchanges that many movies miss.
Post
#205679
Topic
Star Wars Original Trilogy had 'it', but 'it' is hard to explain.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205679/action/topic#205679
Time
This is not a typical post, the prequels suck, the OT is great, blah, blah, blah..... This is more about the OT compared to every movie series, not just its little brother the PT.

I am a diehard SW OT fan since 1977, and was able to see all 3 movies at ages 5,8,11 in the theater, so I feel very lucky in that respect that I was born at the right time for these movies. For almost 29 years I have watched these movies endlessly, and have never gotten sick of them. I love SW the most, but ESB is just as good, and ROTJ is definitely #3, but even with its faults, I still love it to complete the trilogy. I can watch them 4,5,6 then 4,5,6 and so on and so on without picking one over the other.

My whole point is I have loved other movies growing up so I can dispel the nostalgia factor that is thrown in so many times: Raiders of the Lost, Superman, Back to the Future, The Terminator, etc., but I cannot watch those movies as much as the OT, or I guess I don't love those as much as the OT. I have seen them alot of times through the years on HBO and video and now on DVD, but I do need a break every once in a while, as I am always afraid I will just get sick of them. Sometimes if I haven't seen Back to the Future in a couple of years, I enjoy the movie more, not with the OT.

I have never felt that with the OT, never once have I put them away for a while, and said, I need a break. The original SW still gives me the same goosebumps since day one, ESB is just as powerful as it has ever been, and ROTJ gives the true closure that ended the saga in 1983.

What is 'it' about these movies? How do they have this replay value that no movie I have ever seen possess? I mean ROTJ is not the greatest movie in the world to me, surely not better than the original Superman or Back to the Future, but I would pick that any day of the week to watch over them.

How did Lucas do 'it'? How were these films able to be fun popcorn flicks, but in the same breath have the depth of story that the typical stupid summer movie doesn't have? How were they able to have characters with great chemistry and great humor, but still come of as a serious drama when the movie needed to? And how was able to keep a level of mystique about it with the mythology without getting too involved where it turned into a bore-fest? Is it the power of Luke, Leia, and Han, were they just great characters that we all cared for that much?

29 years later, I still love these 3 movies more than ever and still watch them just as much today. (Well not as much, I am too old to stay home from school sick, I have to go to work every day now!)

How did Lucas do 'it'? Sometimes I really can explain 'it'
Post
#205109
Topic
Beyond hope...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205109/action/topic#205109
Time
Originally posted by: Davis

Oh, you wouldn't believe. Most of the people I talk to now tell me how "boring" the original Star Wars is. They would rather watch any other movie than it (my brother included). That just shows how shallow a lot of people have become, and maybe it's why movies stink now- they're being geared toward this type of audience.

(end of rant).




The funny thing is until I started coming on SW forums, I would have thought you were lying, but I have to agree with you on alot of new SW fans. It is the SW fans that are taking their shots at the original, and back when I was growing up it was people who hated everything about SW that took their shots.

I just don't understand how you can classify yourself as a SW fan, and not be a fan of the Original Star Wars! Isn't that the ultimate irony that the only movie really named Star Wars, the newer fans think is probably the worst in the series? I guess it really has to do with the movie being too slow, not enough 'cool' CG like the PT movies, Kenobi/Vader not doing flips in the lightsaber battle, and the need for 2 hours of constant action.

It is real sad cause I agree with you about newer movies in this genre, with the exception of a couple of good ones in the last few years, they are overloaded with action & CGI, and the characters, story, and drama take a backseat.

Oh well, it is just a different generation, I guess it is another reason I want the O-OT on DVD, so I don't even have to think about what new crap Lucas has changed to make those fans who hate his masterpiece happy.

Post
#204884
Topic
Beyond hope...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/204884/action/topic#204884
Time
If there were no OT movies, and PT fans said what they said about the PT movies and how much they loved them, I wouldn't mind. To me, to each his own, and everyone has an opinion.

But the fact that they are saying AOTC is better than the original SW? Or better than ESB? Or even better than ROTJ? I just don't understand how anyone could be a SW fan, and not rank atleast the original SW high up on their list. When I was growing up, the original SW was loved by everyone, and we all debated on ESB & ROTJ. Now years later ESB has proven to be just as great as SW '77, but for a fan to say that AOTC is their favorite SW movie over all the OT movies? That is where I have to check out which planet they are from .
Post
#204140
Topic
Hypothetical: "Let's do it right this time!"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/204140/action/topic#204140
Time
Originally posted by: skye_solo
This is a pretty sweet idea, Jenny...and one I've imagined about before. I've thought a great deal about the originals before...and how that spirit could be resurrected for the prequels. I always feel like it was some wonderful, special blend of talent that happened to befall the movies, and would be VERY hard to grasp again. Like they were a product of that particular time, and those who contributed to their making. How could it be revived for the PT? I'm probably being way too gushy about the whole thing, but those movies are somehow beyond words for me. If only the PT could have seen the same care and creation. One thing I would say is needed: a wonder of the stars. It's all too easy and forgotten in the movies as they stand now. Sure space travel is a normal part of life in the GFFA, but somehow in the originals I always felt this romance about space itself. That should definitely be in the prequels. It's just a little thing, but there you go.



I have come to the reality that I don't think the PT could have ever done what the OT did for us for many reasons, and that is why Lucas started with the OT in '77. Now again, I still don't believe he had this grand plan saga B.S., but he knew this was a different story than the OT.

The PT story is more political, and more personal, and more tragic, so I ask anyone, what is so fun about that? It is interesting, but nowhere near as fun as the OT.

The OT had great characters, and a story that always had a sense of urgency. Our heroes were constantly on the run for 3 movies, so there was no time for scenes like Anakin/Padme on Naboo just falling in love.

Luke, Leia, and Han were characters you could relate to, that could have been you and I up there doing battle with the empire. They had personality, humor, and chemistry. The PT characters were staunchy by nature, sure Lucas could have livened them up alittle, and could have hired different characters, but it would be out of place if they were cracking jokes the whole time. The PT is loaded with characters that are jedi & politicans, so by nature, they aren't characters with the greatest personalities.

The story of the PT is a political one, how a republic goes to hell. As I said, it is interesting, but the plot drives the prequels, as with the OT, the characters drove the plot. Each movie sets up the next one in the PT, as the society gets progressively worse into ROTS. There are many scenes in the senate, that are just about pure politics, and again, they are very interesting, but fun?

The story of Anakin is a tragic one, and an interesting one, but as compared to Luke, Leia, and Han, will you want to watch it 10-20 years from now. It is a simple tale of a boy who becomes evil, and ends tragically in Episode III, as the OT ends on an uplifting note. The PT so focuses on Anakin, if you don't love his story, how can you love the trilogy? Atleast with the OT, Han, Leia, and Luke get the bulk of every movie, so you can take your pick on who you love. For me, it was always Luke, but to many of my friends, they wanted to be Han Solo, and every girl I knew wanted to be Leia.

I think that the PT, even if done to perfection by Lucas, still wouldn't eclipse the OT. I mean the reason we are all here 25 years later is the replay value of the OT, they are fun movies to watch. Now true they are great movie as I consider SW & ESB true classics, but there is no set of movies with the replay value of the OT. 20 years from now, would the PT be fun to watch even if it were great? Would you want to follow a bunch of Jedi & Politicans around for 3 movies, as to following Luke, Leia, Han, Chewy, and Darth Vader for the other 3?

I just think the OT had that magic, and I don't think it could have been repeated for another 3 movies even if Kurtz, Kasdan, and Kershner were working with Lucas. Sure, it would have been better, but again, I don't think the magic was ever going to be there, the OT was able to capture that with once in a life-time characters that anyone could relate to. I think we all forget the power of great characters, and the OT hit a homerun with the three leads.


Post
#203943
Topic
Hypothetical: "Let's do it right this time!"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203943/action/topic#203943
Time
Padme & the twins fate should have been handled this way:

After the duel on Mustafar and Anakin trying to strangle Padme, she survives but realizes Anakin is a monster, and knows she must go in exile. Kenobi, Yoda, and Bail Organa are there to witness the birth of Anakin/Padme child, but as fate would have it, it is twins. Yoda looks at Kenobi with a gleam in his eye that there is hope that two kids will be this strong with the force.

After Padme has twins and names them Luke & Leia, she discusses with Kenobi taking them in exile to hide from Anakin. Yoda steps in and says that the twins must be split up, for if Anakin & The Emperor find one of them, and not knowing she has twins, one would always be safe and being the only hope.

Padme disagrees and won't hear of splitting up her newborn babies. Yoda & Kenobi, and Bail talk outside the delivery room about where the twins can go. Bail says he can take Padme to Alderran with her to safe haven, as they have no weapons and are a peaceful world, and are the last ones to get in a fight with the empire. Kenobi then offers to take one of the babies to Tatooine to watch over them as Owen & Beru Lars become the adopted parents.

This is where the true drama Lucas missed: Kenobi then tells Padme she has to give up one of the children, and she begins to sob hysterically and still won't give in to them, but deep down she knows it is the right decision for atleast one of the babies safety.

She then looks at Luke & Leia, and as she is still crying pauses for a while, and then slowly cradles Leia, but still staring at Luke the whole time. Kenobi then grabs Luke, and Padme begins to run after him as she cant bare to give her child up, but Bail Organa stops her and consoles her as even he knows this is the right decision. She then asks Kenobi before he leaves, "Where are you taking him?" Kenobi replies, "Im sorry Padme, I can't tell you that, but I guarantee he will live a good life." And he exits the room, Padme falls to the ground crying hysterically, as she holds her daughter Leia.

The last montage would be Vader on the Star Destroyer, Padme holding Leia on Alderran very beautiful, but sad (as Leia says in ROTJ), and Luke be held to the binary sunset by Uncle Owen & Aunt Beru.

The credits roll..........

Instead we get Padme losing the will to live and Leia's memories don't mean shit from ROTJ. Thanks George for a wonderful link-up.
Post
#203927
Topic
An exact quote from Lucas on Greedo shooting first.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203927/action/topic#203927
Time

This quote is a classic by Lucas as he tries to defend the change of Greedo shooting first in the Special Edition:

GL: It’s a correction. [When I made Star Wars] I said, ‘Well, I don’t have that shot, so I’ll just, you know, fudge it editorially.’ In my mind [Greedo]shot first or at the same time. We like to think of [Han Solo] as a murderer because that’s hip- I don’t think that’s a good thing for people. I mean, I don’t see how you could redeem somebody who kills people in cold blood."…

Come on now, Lucas has lost his mind!

 

 

Mod Edit: Included now is a screenshot image of the Lucas quote above - from the September 2004 issue of EW magazine:-

_^ as provided by doubleofive - from his insightful twitter thread on the ‘Han Shoots First’ issue - and also some of George Lucas claims and statements on the topic:-

https://twitter.com/StarWarsVisComp/status/1168554173136166913_

Post
#203833
Topic
Hypothetical: "Let's do it right this time!"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203833/action/topic#203833
Time
The one thing I learned from Prequels to a succesful trilogy, Don't do them! Even if they were done right, I still think they shouldn't be made. Sometimes not knowing every detail is actually better than seeing it on screen. Showing the backstory of many characters has ruined their mystique that many possessed in the OT.

The Emperor, Yoda, Boba Fett and Darth Vader were all ruined in my opinion by fleshing them out. For some fans they like to know everything about those characters, to me, I go by the old saying, "less is more."
Post
#203401
Topic
Star Wars Trilogy tops IGN's "Most Wanted DVDs"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203401/action/topic#203401
Time
Originally posted by: Guy Caballero
I know this is all old, but it really sucks that Richard Marquand is dead and yet an entire MUSICAL NUMBER and altered ending was put into the movie he directed. How come the DGA or some artist's rights group isn't more pissed off about that? (even if Marquand wasn't a member then, they get pissed over a lot less). And it doesn't matter that Lucas paid the bills, etc. He had a cow when the studio cut 3 minutes out of American Graffiti. Ugh, how can I still be aggravated by this? I thought I'd be over it by now. That bearded fruitcake.



If you notice ESB is the least changed cause Kershner is still alive. The original SW is Lucas's movie, so that has the most changes, ROTJ has the second most changes, and to me the most major changes, cause Marquard died in 1987. If you Marquard were alive, we would still have Sebastian Shaw........................

Post
#203321
Topic
Star Wars Trilogy tops IGN's "Most Wanted DVDs"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203321/action/topic#203321
Time
Originally posted by: Invader Jenny[/

Once I have those OOT DVDs, all will pretty much be forgiven.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do agree with you 100%, cause all my anger towards Lucas right now is that he hasn't released this set. Alot of the prequel defenders think we are mad at the PT, but that is yesterday news now, and the PT is what it is, take it or leave it. I think that main bitching and complaining stopped after ROTS. Sure there are always going to be some fans that will say about the PT, "What if........" But I think we have all made our assessment on that trilogy, and we are not going to wake up 10 years from now and say, "Damn, those are some awesome movies that i just didn't understand when they came out."

Give us the O-OT, and I will defend Lucas like I did in the 70's/80's/early 90's: SW, ESB, and ROTJ are my three favorite movies, is this guy anything more than god? And I will forget about the PT, just like I did Howard the Duck.
Post
#203081
Topic
Star Wars Trilogy tops IGN's "Most Wanted DVDs"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203081/action/topic#203081
Time
Remember we are the rebels and Lucas is the empire, and the Empire has ruled since 1997, and the OT SE are the deathstar.

To me this list is the beginning of the attack on the death star, and we have a ways to go, but we have found a weakness in the deathstar, mainstream public opinion. The only fans still defending Greedo shooting first is SW fanboys, and that is it.

Do not despair guys, this is going to happen because now pop culture is finished making fun of the PT, that is ancient history. Now they are focusing all their jokes on not how Lucas ruined the PT, but how Lucas ruined the OT. We can forget about the PT, but nobody likes what he did to the OT.
Post
#201744
Topic
Lucas being interviewed by MTV last May, get ready, you're gonna get mad guys!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/201744/action/topic#201744
Time

This is an interview from May 2005 with MTV Lucas did:

What Happened To Han And Leia? How About Jar Jar? ‘Star Wars’ Emperor Lucas Speaks
Series mastermind says Han Solo is probably ‘cooking burgers on the grill.’

George Lucas
Photo: MTV News 5/9/05

MARIN COUNTY, California — When Luke Skywalker found himself in need of answers, he sought the elderly, gray-haired Yoda. Although the Jedi master seemingly spoke in fragmented Zen gibberish, sidestepping questions he didn’t want to

Photos, audio and video from this story
George Lucas on Jar Jar Binks’ reduced role
Lucas on episodes VII, VIII and IX
“Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge Of The Sith” photos

answer, his power and wisdom soon shone brighter than any lightsaber. “Always two there are,” Yoda instructed. “A master and an apprentice.”

So it was with great humility that MTV News took on the role of Padawan apprentice while seeking answers from the master of the “Star Wars” universe, series creator/director/writer George Lucas. After making a long trek to a secluded room of his Skywalker Ranch, we posed the questions that will be left unanswered, even after the final “Star Wars” movie lands in theaters this month. We feared that this gray-haired creature with the wry smile would feed us some line about looking within ourselves for the answers, but Lucas was surprisingly candid, and even kind enough to not have our memories wiped on the way out the door.

Those who have seen all six movies now know that there is a direct link between the Clone Troopers of the first three episodes and the Storm Troopers of the three that follow. So are all those soldiers from the original trilogy actually just the same guy? “Yes,” Lucas said. Fair enough, master — but if that’s true, then why do the troopers in the earlier movies possess different voices?

“Well, yeah, some of the voices have been changed, um, to make it more consistent,” he said, raising an eyebrow at the precociousness of the Padawan. Indeed, Lucas has gone back and changed the voices of the Storm Troopers during recent re-edits for the special editions. “Those particular two guys that you’re talking about — which I know about, which is a very good performance — the idea is that over time, there were new clone strains introduced, and then they even conscripted guys to be Storm Troopers. So it’s not just purely clones: It started out as clones, but then it got diluted over the years as they found out they could shanghai guys [more cheaply] than they could build clones.”

Impressive, as Darth Vader might say — most impressive. So then, if many of the Storm Troopers are indeed photocopies of Jango Fett, does that mean that when Boba was on Cloud City, he could have turned to any of them and asked them to take off their masks, only to find his dad standing there?

“Well, there’s like a 50/50 chance,” Lucas answered. “Not necessarily — he could be anybody, he could be the Mock 2 or the Mock 3, or he could just be some poor guy who got shanghaied.”

Well, that answers some questions about the 19-year gap between “Revenge of the Sith” and “A New Hope,” but whatever happened to those post-“Return of the Jedi” movies? When the original trilogy was in production, news outlets quoted Lucas as saying he would make nine Star Wars movies, with three taking place after the death of Anakin Skywalker. “Well,” insisted the man whose plaid shirt and jeans have become as symbolic a costume as a Jedi robe, “that was sort of a figment of the press’ imagination.”

“I sort of played into it,” he admitted, “but I probably shouldn’t have. The joke I said was, ‘It would be fun to come back when everybody’s 70 and make a sequel.’ But I realized when everybody’s 70, I’d also be 70. That idea, now that I’m 60, isn’t quite so appealing.”

So if we’ll never see it onscreen, what does happen to Princess Leia and Han Solo after they fall in love?

“Han and Leia probably did get married,” Lucas conceded. “They settled down. She became a senator, and they got a nice little house with a white picket fence. Han Solo is out there cooking burgers on the grill. Is that a movie? I don’t think so.”

That explains the fates of two of the most beloved characters in that galaxy far, far away, but whatever happened to the most despicable, repellent creature we had the displeasure of meeting in the “Star Wars” films? We refer, of course, not to ruthless killers like IG-88 or Zuckuss, but to that stumbling buffoon-turned-politician Jar Jar Binks.

“He goes back to Naboo and he’s a representative,” Lucas said of the controversial character, who is barely glimpsed in “Episode III.” “He probably stays on the council, he’s probably in the senate, because it becomes completely worthless. Senators are just for show, which they talk about in ‘Episode IV.’ Actually, in ‘Episode IV’ they get disbanded, so Jar Jar probably goes home to his wife and kids.”

Little baby Jar Jars? That is an image far more horrifying than anything Luke Skywalker found in the cave. With the Jerry Lewis of outer space surviving the Clone Wars, does Lucas have any intention of inserting the character into future updates of episodes IV through VI? “Stories aren’t told that way; everybody’s there for an actual reason,” he reasoned. “People don’t just wander in and out of movies for no reason.”

True enough, but “Star Wars” fans have been known in the past to revel in the minutiae of such insignificant background wanderers as Hammerhead … er … Momaw Nadon (our apologies to the Nadon family). Lucas plans to indulge such eccentrics via a TV show he hopes to begin when finished with his “Revenge” promotional duties. “The show is based on incidental characters, really minor characters in the saga part of it. None of the main characters are in it. It is live-action, and that’s about all I can say at this time.”

Uh-oh, it seems like the “Star Wars” master is trying to instruct us in the ways of evil: avoidance, non-specifics, fueled by a shortness of breath reminiscent of Darth Vader himself. Could this interview be taking a turn toward the dark side? There can only be time for one final question: In “Episode III,” Emperor Palpatine gives Anakin Skywalker his new, evil moniker seemingly out of the blue. How did the lightning-fingered lowlife come up with the name?

“When I started out, it was Darth Vader,” Lucas replied. “It meant dark father. And then I started calling everybody dark something or other.”

Um, OK. But that wasn’t the question, master. We aren’t wondering how you came up with the name, but how Palpatine did.

“I am the Emperor!” Lucas said, laughing and sticking out his hand for a goodbye handshake. A brief smile, followed by a quick exit, will have to suffice — if there’s one thing a “Star Wars” fan knows, it’s that you should never offer up your right hand in the presence of a Sith.

Join Elijah Wood, Good Charlotte, Mila Kunis and more for a special “Star Wars” edition of TRL, airing from George Lucas’ Skywalker Ranch on Friday, May 13.

Check out everything we’ve got on “Revenge of the Sith.”

Visit Movies on MTV.com for more from Hollywood, including news, interviews, trailers and more.

— Larry Carroll

 

Mod Edit: a link for the above article can be found here:-

http://www.mtv.com/news/1501522/what-happened-to-han-and-leia-how-about-jar-jar-star-wars-emperor-lucas-speaks

Post
#200409
Topic
Watched Star Trek II on HBO the other day, what a difference in effects compared to the OT!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/200409/action/topic#200409
Time
Originally posted by: Klingon_Jedi
Um, CO, Wrath of Kahn's special effects were done by Lucas and Co. ILM did the effects for Star Trek II, III, IV, VI, VII, and VIII. Though I believe the Genesis Video was outsourced as ILM didn't do CG at the time. So how ILM could've been ahead of itself...

At a budget of 11,000,000, that's only 2 million under Star Wars, and 7 under Empire. So I don't see how that makes it any more "low budget" than Star Wars. It's not an astronomical figure, but certainly not a B movie like the term "low budget" suggests.

Zombie, yes it did recycle footage from The Motion Picture. This is however due to the shear abundant amount shot for that film. It was felt that instead of wasting money shooting establishing shots, a couple of shots from TMP could be edited and fit in. They even reused models. I'm sure if they hadn't you'd be hear saying how they wasted money, which they would've. It's a wonderful exercise in intelligent cost cutting. This was done to conserve money for the Mutara Nebula sequence, which I still think is one of the best examples of model effects on film.

For what the film called for, I'd say Wrath of Kahn is easily on par with the classic trilogy in terms of how models can exceed CGI.


Text

I take your word for it, but I guess how are the OT effects that much better than Wrath of Khan? I mean it is like night and day!

But as I mentioned before, the inferior effects don't take away from the power of the movie, and I think it is a lesson to directors, that a good story and good drama can override a more visual experience to many. I for one wasn't turned off by the effects in Wrath of Khan, but just noticed how much better the OT effects were.

I guess another question should be, you have a generation of younger fans that love these new effects, and eat up all this CG crap. So aren't the directors just givng to the fans what they want?

For me personally, I think most of these movies that are overloaded with CG look like one big animated film with actors placed into it.
Post
#199988
Topic
Watched Star Trek II on HBO the other day, what a difference in effects compared to the OT!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/199988/action/topic#199988
Time
I was watching Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan on HBO the other day for the first time in many years, I couldn't believe how inferior the effects were to the SW OT.

Now, it is still a great movie, and the effects dont detract from the movie one bit, but this shows how far ahead Lucas & Co. were from everyone else in the late 70's early 80's with stop motion models. There is a big difference from ROTJ & ESB to the original SW, but all those movies are SOOO much better than the early Star Trek movies from that time. Can you guys think of any other SciFi movies from that time and how their effects compared to SW?

Sometimes I take for granted how great SW was at one time, ah, those were the days...........
Post
#197217
Topic
Coincidence?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/197217/action/topic#197217
Time
This was deliberately done by Lucas, and each trilogy is suppose to parallel the other. Lucas has stated numerously that he has tried to echo the two trilogies togther, BUT.......................

And this is a huge but. He was unable to achieve for me to care about the characters from the PT anywhere near I did from the OT. So when I watch the PT and all their fates, mostly Anakin paralleled to Lukes is lining up by ROTS, I could care less what happens to him. He makes Anakin so unlikable in AOTC, by the time he is burning in ROTS, I was hoping Kenobi would put him out of his misery. He should have made Anakin AS likable as Luke, but he was a more flawed man than his son, that to me parallels more than taking the easy way out and just making him pout and moan for 2 hours.

Second, he was unable to connect the trilogies visually either. You have one huge CG trilogy filmed in front of bluescreen, with the exception of Tatooine in TPM, which usually looks like one big animated movie with real actors. In the PT, the planets are exotic, and all swooping overhead shots to introduce us to this world.

Then you have the OT where 90% of it was shot on sets or real-life locations where you actually feel like the actors are in the world. Tatooine is shot in Tunisia, Hoth is shot in Switzerland, and Endor is shot in California. The models in the space battles, while may not move as fast or fluidly as CG, look realistic and don't look like one big video game like ROTS space battle does with EVERYTHING going on in the screen.

The third problem is the scope of the story in each trilogy. The OT is about the macro part of SW that centers around these characters, SW '77 is about rebels vs empire, not about Darth Vader vs his kids. The trilogy moves more personal about father/son but never loses that sense of the rebels vs empire as they all celebrate on Endor.

The PT is about Anakin with the macro stuff littered through it. Unfortunately Lucas chose to make this story soley on Anakin, and key things that would marry the trilogies: Expansion of the Clone Wars (Watch the Cartoons), The force Ghost Trick with QuiGon (Read the Book), Padme & Bail creating the rebellion (Watch ROTS deleted scenes) are thrown by the waste side for Anakins story.

So for lovers of the OT, they feel there is too much Anakin in the PT, and it is tough for them to marry the trilogies for that reasons. For lovers of the PT, they feel the OT, and mostly ANH, does not have enough internal Vader, and find that the parts of Luke, Leia, and Han scenes, especially the rescue in Jabbas Palace, tedious because they see it as the story of Vader, not these rebels.

For me they will always be two trilogies, and if Lucas was able to have one linear story, of either Darth Vaders biography, which is thrown out the window by Episode IV, or the story of how a society goes from a democracy to tyranny and back to a democracy is thrown out the window the minute a 10 year old Anakin is placed in Episode I, and totally throws off the whole balance of the OT.

Post
#196533
Topic
Certain parts of the PT are just cringeworthy, how did this happen?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/196533/action/topic#196533
Time
Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana Jones
Originally posted by: grifter
Originally posted by: CO
How did this happen?


simple! in the OT you had an awesome combination of talents: Kurtz, Kasdan, Brackett, Kershner and the help of Huyck and Katz on the screenplay of ANH (wow! lots of "K" names!) on the PT Lucas was almost all by himself...'nuff said!


Exactly!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is a shame, cause I can always enjoy any SW film, even a PT movie. But after finally watching all 6 of them together you really see a huge contrast in the overall style of each trilogy. Now as I said, this has nothing to do with the story or the characters or even 'what I wanted in the PT', it is about execution. It isn't even about being biased towards the OT, cause I find faults in ROTJ that I don't in ANH & ESB. But the PT is just loaded with so many bad moments that it really outshines the good moments, and the OT never had that effect on me while watching it.

I guess you are right that Lucas ran EVERTHING in the PT, and nobody is great at everything. Lucas to me is a great storyteller, and if you like the PT or not, he did have a vision for this story and stuck by it, and does come up with different worlds that make the movies interesting. Now with a different director and a screenwriter for the 3 movies, who knows how much better they would have been. Who knows how minor a role Jar Jar could have been in TPM, and a much more adult tone too. Who knows how much better the love story could have been in AOTC. And who knows if I would have felt more empathy for these characters that Lucas failed to do for 3 movies. I guess that will always be my personal shoulda, coulda, woulda.


I guess it is just too hard for me to marry these two trilogies and see them as one saga when you love one trilogy, and kinda enjoy the other, probably because it has the name Star Wars plastered in front of it.
Post
#196107
Topic
Certain parts of the PT are just cringeworthy, how did this happen?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/196107/action/topic#196107
Time
Originally posted by: DorK313
well, the time difference for starters. Over the length of time anyone can change. What if the PT was made first or what if it was made soon after ROTJ was finished, would it have been better?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is an interesting question, and I believe the two trilogies would have meshed together more fluidly if filmed in 1986. I think the advancement in technology has actually hindered trying to combine the two trilogies visually. You have one trilogy where there are mostly real sets & models, and the actors are in real settings: Endor in Califonia, Hoth in Switzerland, and Tatooine in Tunisia. Then you have the PT loaded with Blue Screen settings that look almost cartoonish at times, just watch the whole Geonosis battle in AOTC, it is like one big videogame with real actors. The only real scenes that mesh trilogies is Tatooine in TPM as relates to ANH.

I think the 16 years between trilogies was a big mistake cause people do change, and I think lucas kinda lost the focus of his main audience with the PT, especially TPM. The OT was made for teenagers, that kids can love the movies too, but so can adults. TPM for me is made for kids to love along with teenagers, and to me talks down too much to them in the attempts at humor with Jar Jar, etc.

I look at the Godfather III, it was filmed 16 years after Godfather II, and most fans think that is the worst of the three. Did Coppola lose touch with the audience? Was 16 years too much between movies? Or maybe was it just not as great material as Godfather I & II?

Maybe that is our answer, maybe was the PT just not as good material as the OT? Maybe the character weren't as lovable? Maybe it was never going to meet expectation right from the start?

Post
#196082
Topic
Certain parts of the PT are just cringeworthy, how did this happen?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/196082/action/topic#196082
Time
Originally posted by: Kaal-Jhyy
Wow, another "PT hammer-breaking" thread! Anyone has ever counted how many threads of that kind there are here?...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand how you feel, but to me each topic is like a television channel, and you have the remote control, if you don't like it, change the channel.

But I think you are misunderstanding my topic, I am trying to figure how the OT never had these cringeworthy moments, or very few if that, and the PT is littered with them, and the movies are done by the same creator. What happened? Did Lucas's writing style change? Did he change as a director from the original SW in which I love? Is it just a sign of the times of movies and they ain't like they used to be?

I guess this wasn't a thread on what you thought was cringeworthy, but how do you have 3 movies that arent and 3 movies that are? IMO

Post
#195888
Topic
Certain parts of the PT are just cringeworthy, how did this happen?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195888/action/topic#195888
Time
I know many here hate the prequels, I like some parts of them and despise others, so I guess I am in the middle of the pack here. But the one thing I notice about the PT after it is all said and done, is it has so many cringeworthy scenes that just don't exist in the OT, and that is a big hangup I have about those three movies.

Put aside quality, put aside what we all wanted in the PT, and put aside the bad tie in's to the OT, there are so many cringeworthy scenes & characters in there that make me shake my head if I watch them:

-Jake Lloyd as Anakin TPM
-All of Jar Jar for 2 hours
-The two headed pod race announcer
-The gungan battle vs droids that turns into comedy relief
-Every scene between Padme/Anakin discussing their love or build up of love in AOTC
-C-3PO cracking one liners during the Clone Wars
-The diner scene in AOTC
-Anakin & ObiWan on the elevator talking about not seeing Padme for 10 years
-The balcony scene between Anakin/Padme in ROTS, "I am so in love with you." etc.
-The whole turn scene is a mess, badly acted by Hayden, and poorly directed by Lucas
-The silly droid voices in ROTS
-Padme naming the babies within a split second after being told it is a girl/boy by that silly droid
-Vader, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

None of this stuff is about what I wanted the PT to be, cause that is the usual defense of the gushers is that we didn't like it cause it wasn't the story we wanted. I just try to watch these and all of the sudden Lucas started putting out movies that have big parts in it that make you cringe while watching it.

Where did this come from? How did this happen? Does this happen to anyone else when watching it? I can live with how Lucas wrote the story, if the movies were better executed, but as for now I think I wince a bit too much, and maybe that is why I don't revisit these movies all that much anymore.

What do you guys think?
Post
#194535
Topic
Padme's Ruminations
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/194535/action/topic#194535
Time
Originally posted by: JarHead413
Now, don't get the wrong idea hear. I, for the most part, do not enjoy the prequels. I like TPM for the memories I have of when it came out, and I like ROTS cuz it's the closest we'll get to good Star wars again....AotC had Across the Stars....thats about it for me. The OT will forever be the best, and I'll never watch them 1-6.....ever.

But Goerge has his incredible moments. Moments of pure cinematic genious, profound emotion were I can tell he really cares about these movies enough to not cut them. And I know I'm not the only one that felt this way about those scenes and to be able to work up those emotions in other people means to have done exactly what you envisioned and executed it perfectly.
Text
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I think many of the fans who don't love or like the PT feel the same way, the uneveness of the PT. That is probably the biggest frustration of the three movies, is that they have great moments, but are usually followed up by really bad ones minutes later.

For me, my favorite scene of the PT is in ROTS, when Anakin is in the chamber and the eerie music is playing, and he is contemplating what to do if Mace & Co. kills Palps. There is no dialogue, just pure emotion and Padme & himself gaze across Coruscant. Then the next scene with Mace vs Palps and Anakin turning is just plain awful, and makes me shake my head on how badly this was done.

Another great scene is in AOTC when ObiWan is touring the Clone Factory, and finally sees all of them together and the empire music starts getting louder and louder as he marvels at the republics new army. The next scene cuts to Padme/Anakin on Naboo doing.........NOTHING! They are talking about politics and Padme's first love, and totally kills the momentum of that scene with ObiWan.

Everyone here who wanted to love the PT, that is the myth that Lucas & Co. don't say. But we recognize the bad moments outweigh the good ones of the PT, and that is why the frustration toward the trilogy, a different screenwriter, a different director, things would be different. The ideas were always there, these could of been great movies, but the execution once and a while was great, but more times than not was awful. That to me is a big shame, cause you can see there is a good movie waiting to be brought out in each one.TextText
Post
#189737
Topic
Hayden Christensen wins Razzie for ROTS
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/189737/action/topic#189737
Time
Hayden is a sympton of the usual prequel defense, he was better than he was in the last movie. In 2002, AOTC wasn't a great movie, but it was better than TPM. In 2005, ROTS wasn't the next ESB or ANH classic like we expected, but it was better than the first two installments.

Whether Hayden deserved the award or not, I don't know, but to me he was a bad Darth Vader, and Lucas deserves just as much blame for hiring him and shaping him that way.

Instead of getting someone talented, Lucas went after 'looks' instead of acting ability, cause I have noticed that many teenage girls who are SW fans think he is perfect for Darth Vader, and that is the same audience that loved DiCaprio in Titanic, because of his looks too.

The role of Darth Vader had to be perfect for this trilogy, he is the focal point, and Lucas went 0 for 2 with me on his picks. By sacrificing TPM on a 10 year old Anakin, we waited 16 years for a mediocre Jake Lloyd, and it went downhill from the minute he was on screen. Now it is true, it is hard to find a talented young actor, but if Lucas was going to start with Anakin at 10 instead of 20, he better damn well make sure the kid is good. And there are good child actors, Dakota Fanning is very talented, I wish they would have cut her hair, and give her shoulder pads, and she could have done a better job than Jake Lloyd.

Hayden to me is a very average actor. If you watch him in the TV show Higher Ground ( I believe that is what it is called?) that was on right before he was cast as Anakin, he does that same whiny voice, and was almost the same character as this troubled young boy. Sure Lucas direction was bad, but McDiarmid, Christopher Lee, and McGregor don't get lambasted for their acting, because despite the shitty dialogue, and zero direction from Lucas, they are seasoned actors and they overcame it.

Hayden has no range, and couldn't pull off any dramatic scenes in AOTC & ROTS. The turn scene he is truly awful in ROTS, his whole facial expressions are just not believable. Every scene with Palpatine in ROTS, McDiarmid makes him look like a lightweight actor, as Hayden get owned in every scene. There is not one dramatic scene he pulls off in two movies, that really give me goosebumps, and there are a good 5-6 which should have been homeruns with drama. When his mom died, I almost gag & practically laugh at that scene when I watch it, then I watch Luke's expressions when Owen & Beru are burning and wonder if this the same movie saga?

I always thought Lucas should have had Anakin in his mid 20's from the start, and that way he could cast an actor alittle more seasoned. Someone like an Eric Bana from Munich and The Hulk. Hayden & Jake Lloyd were the keys to this trilogy, and they were both overmatched for what they needed to accomplish, I also blame Robin Gurland who is the casting director who you see in all the PT documentaries, another crap talent Lucas hired for the PT.

Lets see who is great from the PT: Kenobi, The Emperor, and Yoda, and John Williams Music, hmmmmm.... that sounds like all retreads from the OT.
Post
#189640
Topic
Natalie Portman hosting SNL this weekend...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/189640/action/topic#189640
Time
Originally posted by: ricarleite
Originally posted by: CO
Originally posted by: CO
But when you watch it, you'll notice when Natalie says, "Everyone remembers me in the three SW movies.......(a couple of second pause from the audience) and then they clapped, it was very awkward.


Really? I wish they didn't clap at all, but in a way that it would be clear that it was not something like a deliberated joke about the prequels. I wish she really bombed there. Why didn't she say "you guys remember me from Closer and Vendetta and" other movies?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The whole jist of the joke with the Q&A from the audience is that Natalie knew more about the PT than SW fans. They had these loser looking nerdy fans ask her questions (The way they looked was actually really funny, they just looked like complete losers), but they would ask a question like, "When Kenobi goes to Kashykk....?" and Natalie would interrupt, "No, Kenobi went to Utapau to find General Grevious....."

But to me the average person watching SNL would have no idea about that joke because General Grevious, Kashykk, or Utapau are not pop culture references, and it just didn't come off as funny, unless you were a diehard SW fan.

If this were Carrie Fisher in 1977, and they asked about Chewbacca, or the Death Star, or even the Millenium Falcon, anyone would get the joke because they were all pop culture references back then, and you didn't need to be a diehard fan of SW to get the joke.

I thought if would have been funny if they had the audience member, who was planted there of course says, "What was it like working with Harrison Ford & Mark Hammill?" Natalie would reply, "Uhh, that wasn't my trilogy, that was the original SW, mine was the prequel SW." The member would say, "The prequel SW? What was that?......." and then he just sits down.

But then again I guess that would mock Natalies own movie she was in, so why would she do it.
Post
#189497
Topic
Natalie Portman hosting SNL this weekend...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/189497/action/topic#189497
Time
Originally posted by: CO
I guarantee there is no mention of the prequels or Star Wars on the show, Natalie is going to distance herself from the series as much as possible, she is kind of like Harrison ford in the 80's after Indiana Jones, except the three movies she did related to SW aren't as good as Harrison's


Text
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I stand corrected, Natalie did the whole monologue with a Q&A with the audience about SW. But when you watch it, you'll notice when Natalie says, "Everyone remembers me in the three SW movies.......(a couple of second pause from the audience) and then they clapped, it was very awkward.