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Post
#247446
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247446/action/topic#247446
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
CO,

Yes. Loving someone is not the Jedi Way. You can have compassion for the whole of civilization but you can't be attached to one person. Because of the nature of the Force and the fact that the Jedi manipulate the Force to their own will, if one is emotionally attached to an individual, one could slide easily down the path of possessiveness in wanting to keep that individual with them. The problem stems from the Dark Side. It's more powerful than the Light Side and it will "dominate you."

As Anakin so foolishly states to Obi-Wan, "you underestimate my power", it is clear that the Dark Side has him. He's not thinking rationally during that fight because of his belief that he has control of the "Dark Side."

This is the path of the Jedi. I don't read EU one bit but I'm sure there are tales of other Jedi loving someone eventhough they know it's not the way and could lead down a dangerous path. Again, it has to do with the Force. The Force is clearly a powerful thing. Why else does Vader bait Luke about his sister in Episode VI and that baiting causes Luke to loose it for a moment when he goes beserek on his father....
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See, that is where ROTJ does a better of job of showing the darkside gripping Luke. Palps is baiting him in the throne room, and finally the darkside gets to him, and he goes apeshit like Anakin did on the tuskens, and that is why I like both scenes in AOTC & ROTJ. But in ROTS, he makes a CALCULATED decision to join Palpatine, not having the darkside take him over, and that is where it makes Anakin look like an idiot, cause he he is not joining Palps because of the darkside, but because he want to know this trick to save Padme. That is the whole key plot point that changes the whole dynamics, learning this trick to save people, Anakin is aware of this all the time, and the darkside does not take him over like the Tusken slaughter.



Post
#247439
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247439/action/topic#247439
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
CO,

The only evidence we have of Anakin not being able to go back to get his mother is the Jedi way. As he tells Padme on the cruiser, "Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden."

That's the whole problem with him. Had Anakin been taken when he was a baby, he wouldn't be attached to his Mother, just as Obi-Wan and Mace aren't. They don't know them. Anakin was raised by his mother. She was the only thing he knew. She's the one who guided him to be this selfless individual at nine in Episode I. That doesn't just turn off just because you're going to be studying the Jedi Way. This is why Yoda didn't want this...."He's way too old."

As for his turn, the Darkside does play a part but I'll even admit that it's way too subtle in that sequence we he kneels before Palpatine. It's implied.



I agree with you about taking him as a baby, and that is one of the things that actually made sense from the PT, if you are not attached to anyone, it is easier to fight for the cause, rather than fight for an individual.

But falling in love with Padme, has nothing to do with leaving his mother at 10 years old, it is just a natural occurence in life. He could have been taken as a baby, and still fell in love with Padme, and that comes down to the persons actions. And to me it is cop out by Lucas to say if Anakin was taken as a baby, he would have never fell in love with Padme, and never been Darth Vader.

Is Lucas saying not one jedi in 1000 years ever fell in love? There had to be one of them who maybe fell in love and strayed, just like Count Dooku was a jedi and he became a sith out of power or disgust from the jedi order, it does happen, but that is Count Dookus personality, not because of Jedi.

The one thing I hate about the PT, is makes Anakin like one of those people on Oprah Winfrey show, it is someone elses reason why I did it. I did this cause I had a bad upbringing, I did this cause one of my parents died early in life, etc. Lucas constantly gives an out to Anakin, and to me that undermines the strongness of Lukes character in the OT. Maybe Luke was just a stronger willed person than Anakin, nothing more nothing less. No two people are the same, and I think by constantly giving excuses to Anakin, what Luke eventually does in the context of 1-6, is really secondary now.
Post
#247436
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247436/action/topic#247436
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
CO,

Whoa. Anakin leaving his mother doesn't spark constant fears. He's sad that she's not with him, but not fearful. The fear creeps in when we get to Episode II and the dreams he has....



Just like he has dreams of freeing the slaves in TPM, is that ever followed up? That shows me that Anakin has alot of dreams, but for some reason doesn't try to free his mom between TPM & AOTC?
Post
#247434
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247434/action/topic#247434
Time
Tiptup, I totally agree with you and this is where Lucas failed at convincing me about Anakins fears. In Lucas's eyes, TPM should show two things, that Darth Vader is an innocent little child, again because a majority of the audience saw it 4-6 first and he has to make us unlearn what we have learned. And secondly, that Anakin leaving his mom at ten years old sparks these constant fears that make him do bad things later in life when those fears are now seen through what will happen to his wife.

On the first point, Lucas succeeded in showing me that Darth Vader wasn't a bad kid on the block from day one, so he succeeded in that point. On the second point about fears, he failed miserably. First of all, Anakin was a slave, Lucas showed nothing of the mental scars on Anakin/Shmi that being a slave does to you. He came home with Padme, Jar Jar, and QuiGon, and they had a nice dinner, and everything was hunky doory. Just watch Conan the Barbarian, it is only shown for about ten minutes, but that is what it is like being a slave. You see Arnold doing the same job for years and years and you yearn for him to get the hell out of that awful life. I don't think Conan is the greatest movie when it comes to character development, but it suceeded a hell of alot more of making its point than TPM does.

OK, so Anakin leaves him mom for 10 years, and has a dream she is suffering. He goes back and finds her near death, and when she dies, he goes apeshit and kills Tuskens. At that point, Lucas had me, I bought that whole scene in AOTC, cause I put myself in that position, and I could rationalize if someone killed one of my parents, I would get irrational and may lose it like Anakin did. To me, Anakin took revenge on the Tuskens, and all of us have that revenge gene in our body at some point in our life, and this was as extreme as you get.

OK, so we get to ROTS, and Anakin has a dream of Padme and she is dying, at this point I still buy it, I am on board with Lucas. So Palps tells him he has this trick of saving people, cool scene, good setup. So what does Anakin do? NOTHING? The whole next hour of the movie should have showed Anakin trying to find out more about this trick, does he ask Yoda? Does he ask Kenobi or Mace? Now at that point, he doesn't trust the jedi totally, but it would still make a point by them laughing at his question, that maybe they aren't showing him everything to be a jedi.

Then he doesn't even ask Palps just once, how is this done? Not that Palps would even show him, or even respond to him with a coherrant answer, just give him more B.S. that would make the viewer sympathize with Anakin that he is on board with Palps. The fact that Anakin does not even question how this is done wants he finds out Palps is the Sith Lord makes the story ridiculous. How could Anakin believe Palps after he has started this war for 10 years? How could Anakin believe Palps after he was behind killing several of his fellow Jedi? How could he believe Palps as Palps watched him fight Dooku and didn't say a word other than, "He is a sith lord, you're no match for him." You may look at it as Anakin being desperate, I look at Anakin now as a total idiot, and being duped and being an idiot are two different things.

So we get to Mace fighting Palps, and Anakin walks in. Doesn't Anakin wonder what happened to the other 3 Jedi who left with Mace? So Mace is about to Kill Palps, and Anakin takes his hand off, then Palps kills him with Lightning and Anakin says, "What have I done?" Right there, he knows the jedi aren't evil, he knows he did a bad thing, but what does he say to Kenobi on Mustafar, "I always knew the jedi were evil!!" If you did Anakin, you wouldn't have said, What have I done?

So he then pledges to Palps his allegiance, so Palps say to go kill all the kids in the temple. Why wouldn't Anakin atleast say, "Hey, wait a second, what does this have to do with saving Padme?" My point is Lucas did such a bad job of distinguishing the dark side instead he made it all about Padme. Anakin should have felt the darkside in him, and that would make him think irrationally, he was always rationale, cause it was only about Padme, and that is why he has tears on Mustafar before Padme lands, he always knows what he is doing, and that is just plain stupid.

So then we get to Mustafar, and his argument with Padme. So then he throws out, we can rule the galaxy, I can overthrow the Chancellor......." Where the hell did that come from other than tying what Vader said in ESB? Anakin never talked about ruling the govt other then the little picnic with Padme where he thinks one person should make all the decisions in politics. Lucas never established that Anakin was about power from day one, it was always about Padme, so that line comes from left field.

Then he says to Kenobi, "My Empire!" WTF? When was it about his Empire? Anakin just cried 5 minutes ago before Padme showed up, cause he knew what he was doing wasn't right in some ways, but it was for Padme, so he could justfiy it. So what does 'My Empire' have to do with saving Padme, other then tying to Vader in the OT.

So this leaves me my question, "What the hell do attachments have to do with any of this stuff?" If I had a dream about my mother dying and wife dying, I would be just as scared as Anakin was to lose someone, and Lucas didn't need Anakin leaving his mother to make that point, the dreams did!! Not once did Anakin leaving his mother occur to me in ROTS that was one of the reasons for his actions, and I know many of you guys didn't think that until you heard Lucas's commentary or read an interview somewhere. And if that is true, then Lucas failed, cause if fans can't pick up that message by watching the movies, and have to get their facts through interviews, then the story failed on screen.

Lucas had me at the end of AOTC, I was buying the whole story in 2002 about Anakin, but ROTS is so ludricrous and so uncompelling, I turned against the PT after ROTS and the bad turn, not because of Jar Jar.
Post
#247353
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247353/action/topic#247353
Time
Jumpman, I agree with you on the political stuff of TPM & AOTC, and I actually liked that stuff, but again it isn't totally necessary to connect to the OT, cause if Lucas was so steadfast in telling that story that deals with the politics, how the hell could he leave on the cutting floor the birth of the rebellion scenes? That to me is every bit as important to tying the saga because it is the first shot of ANH and Tantive IV.

I am saying one prequel would have not built up this angst against Lucas and I feel he lost so many fans when ROTS finally hit the theater. By having one prequel in the year 2000 lets say, the anticipation for 3 years about this 3 1/2 hour prologue that will answer every burning question we all had since 1983, many fans wouldn' t have had time to get burned again and again.

Many fans got burned by TPM, and feel it is a piece of shit, and I know many who never went back. Then AOTC, they couldn't take the romance, and that is when they checked out. By ROTS, you had the diehards who loved the PT by then, and then the fans who were sticking it out, but were suspect.

With one Prequel Prologue movie, the expectations would have been enormous, many would have loved it, and many would have been let down, but it would have been one movie, and fans would have moved on. The PT spanned 7 years of what ifs? Will AOTC be the movie we were expecting with TPM? Will ROTS be as great as ESB? Will ROTS be the one we waited for?

That stuff would have been gone, it would have been one movie, not a character arc, not really a story per say, but just a huge prologue that spans the events that lead up to the empire taking power, and whatever you want to say, that is one f-ing interesting story. For whatever I have my problems with ROTS, that is the story I waited for, for 7 years, and it will always be one of the most interesting SW movies, even if I have major problems with the movie.

I understand Lucas wanting to tell a different story with the PT, and having different tonality, different look, etc. But when you tie a saga 1-6 as a one story about Anakin, it just comes off as too much. If Lucas did a seperate trilogy of prequel events that tied in with the OT, but not as one story, but two seperate stories of the SW universe, that could have worked. Lucas tried to make two different stories, with different looks, tonality, and feel into one story of Anakin Skywalker, and that is where it will never connect for me.
Post
#247345
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247345/action/topic#247345
Time
To Jumpman and Gomer, or anyone who still kinda likes the PT, what would think if Lucas did just one prequel?

Now hear me out, I really think Lucas could have done one prequel, or a prologue, and I think a majority of fans would have been happy, and all the Jar Jar & Anakin/Padme crap that turned off so many friends I know would have never existed.

If Lucas just made one 3 1/2 hour Prequel, and really streamlined the script. The movie would contain several flashbacks in the first hour to really give key plot points from TPM & AOTC all told through Anakin/Obiwan as good friends saving the Chancellor.

Lucas would not be so indebted to Anakins story, but more of the macro plot points that tie nicely with 4-6. He could 3 hours to show Anakin turning, The birth of the rebellion, The Clone Wars at the beginning, The force ghost explanation, the duel.

I am just saying that Episode III is really the movie everyone wanted to see in the end, and if Lucas just made that and it really came out great without all the problems that plagued the other two prequels, I think it would have been a huge success, and you wouldn't have this division of fans.

Now many fans like Jumpman and GoMer will feel slighted, cause they want more SW movies, so 1 PT movie would not be enough, and I respect that. I just think the Prequels are too long of a story, and all the red meat, the true plot points that tie to the OT are there in ROTS. The backstory of Anakin was not the reason why I wanted the PT, the events that led up to the OT as per Anakin/Obiwan were the reason why, and there is a huge difference.
Post
#247337
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247337/action/topic#247337
Time
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen


Much as I contend the prequels did well financially because they were technically Star Wars, I don't think many people will want to experience all 6 as a saga, to be watched back-to-back over a week or a marathon weekend. There's only a niche audience for the 'Skywalker Father and Son' saga, and a much bigger Star Wars audience who wouldn't want to waste over 6 hours of poor entertainment to lead them into the 6 hours of glorious fun and adventure.


Further, I don't think anyone who was born before 1999 would, if they were to watch all six films, want to experience the story in its chronological order of fictional events; most will rightly want to watch them in the chronological order of creation, which presents the story to its greatest effect.

Not that there's zero effect from watching it 1 to 6, but the better story effect lies in watching the main story, then the back story.

.


This is a good point, and I think the one thing that made the OT great and still popular today is replay value of the movies. The OT are one of the few set of movies that fans can watch hundreds of times and they aren't some niche or cult fanbase, they are the masses.

Many people love movies like Shawshank Redemption, they have built a following that the fans seem to love the movie more than anything in the world, but again it is a niche fanbase. Although Shawshank is a great movie.

The OT movies have so much replay value I often wonder how I have never got sick of them? How can I watch Star Wars '77 again and again and never get sick of it, same with ESB & ROTJ. I love so many other movies, but I do need some time after I watch them or I will play them out, but the OT is different.

I believe the PT fanbase won't be as big for that reason alone, the way the trilogy is structured as GoMer says, the Sith doesn't hit the fan til Episode III, so it leaves you with 2 setup movies to get to the real story. What I am saying is the PT movies don't hold up well individually, cause they were designed as a trilogy. The OT movies hold up as a trilogy and individually cause Lucas was making them by the seed of his pants hoping the success will bring him enough money to make the next one. Sure ESB doesn't have an ending, but no one was sure in 1980 there would be a third SW movie, so Lucas had to make ESB just as great as SW, cause if it failed, the end of the SW.

The PT was made knowing he was making Episode III, and that is why every PT fan I have heard from thinks ROTS is the best of the PT movies. One reason: Whether you like the movie or not, it has every plot point a SW fan could dream of, so Lucas really threw all his marbles in Episode III.

I just can't see a huge amount of saga fans in the future, and I think that will have a trickle down effect on the OT too, as I don't see as many diehard SW fans as the generation that grew up with the OT. I still say the 1-6 newcomer will watch the OT totally out of context and will only love the second half of ESB, and the Throne Rooms scenes in ROTJ, the other stuff they will say is all exposition, meaning the Han, Luke, and Leia stuff. The sad thing is that supposed exposition that coincides with the tragedy of Anakins story is the reason I am a diehard fan.

Post
#247293
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247293/action/topic#247293
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I do agree that the prequels certainly had help from the drawing power of the classic trilogy.

I have no doubt some people went back to see it over and over again just because of their love for the classic trilogy. I'm not even suggesting there is something fundamentally wrong with doing something like that. Either people were hoping their opinion would improve, or they were making sure their opinion that it sucked wasn't just a hastey conclusion.

But I'm telling you, there are a bunch of us who just thought they were great. I don't like to admit it now so much, but I saw TPM 21 times at full ticket price and lost count once it hit the dollar theater. It was almost every weekend I would go see that movie the summer of 99.

When Christmas rolled around, I took great delight in seeing it again for the holiday re-release. Every time I saw it the theater was at least half full, there were a lot of kids, but some adults. It really seemed like the longer it was in theaters, the more the audience was made up of people who really got into the movie.

I remember kids and adults laughing at Jar-Jar, and getting excited when the pod race was starting, and cheering on the heros when they were confronted by Darth Maul.

We were all having a blast, and nobody was cringing at anything.


Gomer, you have been respectful here, so I do have a couple answers to your post. As for TPM being the funnest time for SW fans, I do agree with that, but it has nothing to do with the quality of the movie, it was just the first time something new was from the SW universe in 16 years, and it was almost surreal that night.

I remember I went with childhood friends and my older brother that night, and the ironic thing is it was the first SW movie I could actually drive to the theater for! It was great to see SW again with my brother, as we saw ANH on HBO hundreds of times in the early 80's, and then when we got a VCR in 1985, we bought the OT movies too. Although I think ROTJ didn't come to video til 1986.

But walking out of the theater, everyone was dazed, we didn't know what to say. I for one was the only one who actually thought it was OK opening night. For me, I can never hate any SW movie, no matter how bad it is, I just love SW, but I am not naive to know the quality difference of the 6 movies, and that is where many don't want to believe the PT is worse than the OT.

My best friend saw TPM 8 times that summer, and now he doesn't even talk about it nor watch it. I only saw it twice, but I have constantly asked why he saw it 8 times in '99, and now he hates it, and he says, "It was the first SW movie in 16 years, I was so charged for anything SW that I kind of looked passed the quality.

For me, Gomer, I was a PT defender til ROTS. I was not a gusher, cause I always said the OT was better and ANH & ESB were the best, but I always gave Lucas the benefit of the doubt, "Let me see all 3 movies, then I will evaluate it." I liked the story of TPM & AOTC, I liked the way he was setting everything up for Episode III, I was on board with Lucas in 2002. I liked how Anakin went apeshit on the Tuskens, that was believable, and I liked the ending of AOTC, very haunting.

Then ROTS came, and Lucas just dropped the ball with huge plot points in this movie. The whole turn scene is still awful to this day, and the whole build up is uncompelling and so far-fetched. Padme losing the will to live was such a cop out by Lucas too, and the Duel with Anakin/Obiwan was so long and boring. The TPM duel atleast had some umph in it, and got you charged to watch it everytime it is on TV..

Those are major parts of the story that tie the trilogies, and that is when I gave up on the PT, cause ROTS should have been so much better with all the plot points Lucas saved. The whole idea of Anakin turning for a dream, but not asking Palpatine once, "Hey, how is this actually done?" Even if Palps lies to him, or shows him some fake way of bringing someone back to life. Just show something that would make you think Anakin would give it all up to side with the Sith Lord. In the end that whole scene with Palps shooting his face with Lightning is utterly laughable, and pales in comparison to the Throne Room Scene in ROTJ which is the best part of ROTJ.

I understand some will love the PT, and I am not arguing that. I still contend it will be a niche fanbase of PT lovers, and a huge fanbase of OT lovers who like the PT, put up with the PT cause it has its SW moments, and then there will always be the haters. The problem is Lucas is targeting the PT/SE crowd, and I think he is in for a rude awakening in the next boxset, cause everyone has one of the versions of the OT on DVD, so now we want quality.

Post
#247112
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247112/action/topic#247112
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman

I'm a Lucas guy who also realizes that he talks out the side of his mouth ever now and again. But, instead of saying the Saga is about Anakin, I wish he would've just stated that the Saga is about "the Skywalker family." With that, I think people would be okay with it. And what's funny about that is that Rick McCallum sees it that way and Lucas really doesn't.



But Lucas is obsessed with Vader/Anakin, and that is why he continues this tragedy of Anakin line. What Lucas misses is that fans like me love Vader, but sometimes knowing too much about a character actually hurts the character. Sometimes less is more, and that is huge downside to the PT. It is just like anything, the more you know about something, there is more of chance you may not like it.

Lucas thinks cause fans like me loved Vader in '77, that he would make the saga about him, and that is where he miscalculated for this fan. I think Darth Vader is the coolest bad guy in the history of movies, even cooler then Hanibal Lector, but hence the word bad guy.

I honestly think Lucas went Vader crazy with SW movies, and that is why I will never love any of them as much as ANH, cause that was the least Vader-like movie of the 6, and that is why for those who see it 1-6, it will probably be their least favorite.

Now I still love the OT because even though Lucas went Vader crazy, he still was secondary to Lukes story, so I can still enjoy the overall themes of 4-6. Lucas could have easily chose to focus the PT on the macro events as the major story and the characters of Anakin, Padme, and Kenobi be just essential to the plot to get us to Episode IV. There would be no need for Jake Lloyd, you could essentially start the PT at the beginning of AOTC. Regardless of the quality, if Lucas did it that way, and forgot about the Anakin Skywalker character arc, I think I would be a 1-6 fan, cause I would watch the PT for the macro story, and follow the plot to enjoy the movies, then watch the OT for the personal story, and follow the characters to enjoy the movies. Then again, what can you do?
Post
#247102
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247102/action/topic#247102
Time
Originally posted by:Jumpman

Totally agree. I guess the reason I have no problem with the story of the Prequels was because I always preferred the character of Darth Vader and Obi-Wan more than Han, Luke, and Leia. And once we found out that Vader was Luke's father, I was more focused on Vader, even as a kid, than Luke.


That is the great divide, and neither of us is wrong, but the problem is Lucas is saying the saga is about the character you prefer now. Now you and I aren't tainted cause we saw the movies in their order, so after seeing the story evolve, you love the Darth Vader story and love the saga. After I see the story evolve, I like the story of Luke, Leia, and Han, and I love the OT.

The problem is future generations who see the saga 1-6 won't see it the way we did. In a sense, you and I being tainted and seeing it 4-6, 1-3 was the best thing cause we didn't see any movies out of context. Future fans are going to ingraded that the story is of Anakin Skywalker, and I guarantee ANH will pop up as many of the new fans least favorite, when it was the movie that started it all, and is probably the most loved by the masses.

Kinda ironic?

Post
#247090
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247090/action/topic#247090
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
I don't either me or Go-Mer stated that the twins are working to "resurrect" their father, although that does become Luke's focus in Episode VI.

Yes, the Original Trilogy is Luke's story but looking at them numerically, it does in the end come back to Anakin. It is the Skywalker story with Anakin and Luke as the figure heads, with Anakin having a bit more emphasis once we get to the end of it all. I don't think Go-Mer stated that the Original Trilogy isn't about Luke Skywalker.



Jumpman, that is huge reason why I dont love the saga 1-6, and that has nothing to do with the quality of the films. I don't like that the saga is about Anakin now, it just doesn't grab me. Now Lucas has every right to write the story that way, and I have every right to reject it.

It would be like Zemeckis shooting Back to the Future prequels about the young life of Doc Brown, and then saying the Back to the Future saga 1-6 is about Doc Brown. I wouldn't like it, even though it wasn't filmed! I love the story of Marty McFly, and those films were written about him, and Doc Brown was just his cohort for 3 movies, trying to guide him back to 1985.

My point is that Lucas chose to make the story about Anakin, and that was a huge risk, cause some people just arent' interested in a character like that, some fans love to root for the good guy. I love Rocky more than Raging Bull, even though they are both classics, but Rocky is as Apple Pie as movies come.
Post
#247087
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247087/action/topic#247087
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
CO,

Interesting points. I chalk this up to Lucas trying to make the Star Wars universe more vast than what we've previously seen because, we are in the golden age of the Republic where the interactions of all the civilizations is normal.

But, I do see where you're coming from. The Kaminoans are cool as hell. The Trade Federation is a joke, but I think that's the point. Dex, I can go back and forth on. I mean, it's cool to see Obi-Wan have a hint of a life outside the Jedi Order, yet at the same time, I wanted Obi-Wan to get the info quicker to move the story quicker. (The way Episode II is edited still pisses me off. I'll never let Burtt off the hook for how that film is put together, eventhough it's my 3rd favorite Star Wars film.) I'm actually a Jar Jar guy but I can understand everyone's problems with him. I like Grevious only because he's a plot point for the Clone Wars aspect of the story. But yes, the humans are always the best.



But Lucas started seeing aliens as the be all end all of characters. The one thing that annoys me is Mace Windu is the only human on the Jedi council other than Kenobi & Anakin. It makes takes away from the Jedi having too many aliens, cause it makes it seem like most humans don't have those powers. I would have liked to see a 50/50 split of council members of humans/aliens.

Just think of ESB with all aliens on Vader star destroyer? Just think of Vader choking some goofy alien, it wouldn't have that same effect. Just think of all the officers on the death star and they were all aliens like the Trade Federation members on Mustafar, it is like night and day.

In the OT, or ANH & ESB, Lucas used aliens just enough in minor roles, to make the galaxy diverse like you said, but kept it realistic with mostly humans, and that adds to the more serious tone of the first two films. The PT is so loaded with aliens, they just come off as laughable sometimes, cause they usually either look goofy or have some goofy accent.
Post
#247053
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247053/action/topic#247053
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
CO,

Excellent points. Episode I is the biggest culprit but it still works. I don't really think Episodes II and III cater to kids at all. I mean, in tone, those two films together are a bit more serious than Episodes V and VI. But, again, that has alot to do with the fact that good guys get their asses handed to them at the end of Episode III.



It isn't necessarily the story that determines the whether a movie is dark or not, cause honestly AOTC is the darkest in a sense that Palpatines plan is right in front of ObiWans face on Kamino, and he doesn't know it. The one great scene I love in the PT is ObiWan staring at the Clones and the Empire music plays louder and louder.

It is very hard to explain, but Episode II & III still cater to kids, much less of a level than TPM, but it still does. If you notice Jumpman, ANH & ESB have mostly humans throughout the movies, and very little aliens. ANH only has aliens with the Jawas, Sandpeople, and then the Cantina bar which is purposely done by Lucas to show all the hive and scum, but after that Humans dominate the movie. There is something more realistic in drama and dialogue when it comes from a human, it just feel more real.

ESB is the same, other than Yoda, and he was done so well by Frank Oz, it almost defies logic how fuckin real that puppet is! But you still have most of the movies, with the exception of the bounty hunters as humans: all the men on Vaders Star Destroyer, Lando and all the civilians on Cloud City.

Then jump to ROTJ, and it is alien-fest. Now if you do an alien or creature right like Yoda or Jabba, it can come as cool as hell, and gives that richness to the movies. But ROTJ is littered with so many aliens in jabbas palace, and then you have the Ewoks, and then you even have aliens on the rebellion now! Though the guy with the big eye who says, "Its a trap!" is pretty cool.

Then you go to the PT and it is alien/creature fest gone wild. The PT movies have too many damn aliens, and not enough humans to keep that seriousness and drama. Dex at the diner is a joke, The Trade Federation guys in TPM are just not cool, General Grevious is lame, but Count Dooku is my favorite villain in the PT, cause he is human and just comes off as believable as he is tempting Kenobi in AOTC.

As I said when you make an alien/creature in SW, it is hit or miss, and the PT & ROTJ are populated by too many misses that make the movies laughable in some parts, that is the difference with ANH & ESB where they are in the movies on a much minor scale.
Post
#247048
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247048/action/topic#247048
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
Can I ask a serious question?

Were you guys this picky when it came to The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi back in the day?

I was five when Jedi came out so I wasn't "hip" to Star Wars yet, eventhough I liked watching them.


I was 5 when SW came out in '77 and absolutely love it and that hasn't changed. At 8 years old, I did not love ESB in 1980, too dark for me, but I loved ROTJ at 11 years old in 1983. I think Lucas saw that alot of kids like me were turned off at the adult & dark tone of ESB, and I think he made a calculated choice that any future SW movies were not going to be like ESB.

Lucas was at a crossroads after ESB, the movie didn't gross nearly as much as SW, so he had to look at the masses or a particular audience, and he went for the masses, and as I said, I loved ROTJ at 11 years old, but quality rears its ugly head as you get older and wiser, and I believe alot of young kids who like the PT movies are going to look at them in 15-20 years like we did with the OT years later and re-evaluate the movies, just like any movie.

Sure kids are not going to go on the internet and talk about the stuff we do, kids are kids, but that doesn't mean you cater to them. TPM caters to kids, ANH doesn't, and that is what Lucas missed after ESB. You can make a serious movie with a serious story and serious themes, and not need certain characters to cater to kids. There are so many movies I loved growing up that didn't cater to kids one bit, but I could still enjoy them just as much: Superman movies, Back to the Future, Indiana Jones, all those movies were made for teenagers that adults can enjoy and kids too, and all of those movies have aged well cause they don't Ewoks & Gungans polluting the movie, that you look on 20 years later and say, WTF?

Post
#247039
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247039/action/topic#247039
Time
Originally posted by:Jumpman

He did mention that if he ever would go back and tell the backstory that they would be different in tone and style. But, he didn't have it all planned out. He had the highlights in outline form as CO said.
.


See, I never had a problem with the PT being a different style and tone than the OT, but Lucas wanted it both ways with the PT. I always thought the PT should have been dead serious from the start, and even to the point that it doesn't cater to kids at all. Now of course you are going to lose market share for the box office gross, but who cares, movies that cater to kids don't age well when kids are not kids anymore. Just ask alot of people like me who loved ROTJ in 1983, and now think it is average.

The first ten minutes of TPM are what the tone of the PT should have, I love ObiWan and QuiGon in that first shot. Then they get to Naboo and meet Jar Jar, and the whole seriousness of the movies is gone. The PT should have staunch and political, but not cater to kids with Jar Jar humor and C3PO lame humor on Geonosis with his head getting pulled around during the FUCKIN CLONE WARS!!!!!

ROTS is the only Prequel that has the right mix of humor in it, it has about 3 minutes R2D2 humor in the beginning, but not too over the top, and then it gets serious for the rest of the movie, even though the dramatic parts are pretty bad like the turn and Padme losing the will to live, but that is another issue.

The problem with the PT and parts of ROTJ, is Lucas is trying to cater to every audience out there, and that is why all the films come off as very serious at times, and very juvenile at others. And yes, he is genius cause the PT movies grossed a shit load of money in that respect, but looking at the movies now, you wonder what TPM would be like without Jar Jar, or a hugely toned down Jar Jar. The one thing I love about ANH & ESB is they are not made for the kiddies, and they don't talk down to them either. Kiddies like me in 1977 jumped on the bandwagon, but not until the Ewoks did Lucas start to really go after my age group. And look how the Ewoks have aged in 22 years.

Post
#247024
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247024/action/topic#247024
Time
Originally posted by:Go-Mer-Tonic
Lucas originaly did number episode 4 the way he did to make it like you were coming in on the middle. But still he was looking at it as the 4rth part of the story, even if he wasn't always sure he'd get around to making the prequels. And according to Lucas, he says that part of the reason he chose the ANH story to do first, was because it was the most straight forward and easiest to pull off considering the scope of the locations they would need to produce..


I disagree, Lucas never supposedly started in the middle of the story, he just started with the story he was writing. I believe him when he wrote out all these notes and it was too big for one movie, but there is no way he even had a trilogy in mind when writing SW, cause ROTJ is so much a retread of ANH.

The PT was never part of the story, all Lucas did is write backstory notes where certain characters came from, and how the Empire took over, more a rough rough rough draft. Simple things like ObiWan & Vader fight over a lava pit, ect. Nothing specific, just more general things to flesh out the story. But I believe Lucas has no intention of ever doing a backstory in 1977, until SW became a phenomenon, and that is when he started talking about 12, 9, and then 6 episodes, it was more of just 'where can I take this saga now.'

I believe that Lucas wrote the notes for SW in 1977, and many ideas from ESB were left off, and when he wrote ESB, he had all these great ideas, and that is why the movie is so different, it is essentially all the other things he had thought up in the 1970's. By ROTJ, he had to think up all new stuff from his original notes, and that is why you see so much stuff that isn't original.

The PT, was just Lucas winging it for 3 movies with some basic notes he had back in the 1970's, but as you can see, he was developing the story of the PT as he was filming each movies, so nothing other then a couple of plot points were really planned before 1999.

Post
#246931
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/246931/action/topic#246931
Time
GoMer, Jumpman, and JediRandy, what you don't understand is not everyone hates the PT movies, but in the same vein, not everyone loves them either, just like millions of movies that have ever come out. I know so many fans that either think the PT movies range from bad to OK, to alright, to pretty good, but not one person I know thinks they are better than the OT movies. Now of course there will be some audience that loves the PT movies, there is for every movie, but they will be a niche fanbase of fans who truly love it.

You guys constantly think anyone who bad mouths these movies are bashers, and there is a difference. Some fans here truly hate the PT, and have probably hated it from day right after TPM. Then there are many fans who enjoy the PT because it is SW, nothing more nothing less. If it was another SciFi/Fantasy Trilogy, we probably would have watched it once, and said it was OK and moved on. But EVERYONE of us here tried to love it 1-6, or atleast I know I tried. I bought ROTS last November hoping something would all of the sudden change, I would suddenly love the PT as much as the OT, and bam it would be 6 movies that would blend seamlessly like the OT.

As I stated last night, it isn't a linear story and that is why so many fans can watch the OT seamlessly but can't watch the PT/OT. And it just isn't about quality for many fans, cause ROTJ is the weak link of the OT, but I have no problem watching it as the closing part of the trilogy, cause the story is consistent as a whole, Luke is the main character, Han & Leia are 1a characters, and Vader/Luke is the subplot story along with Yoda/Kenobi.

The PT is mainly about Anakin, a character study, and the minor plot points are the macro stuff we all wanted to see: The creation of the Empire, The Jedi Council, The Clone Wars, etc. The problem with many OT fans that think the PT is alright, is that they don't love or feel compelled towards Anakins story, as to the PT fans who love that story and want more of it in the OT. OT fans want to see the macro stuff in the PT, and that is a minor story to Anakins. PT fans want to see more Vaders story in the OT, and that is minor to the story of Luke, Leia, and Han. That is why it is so hard to blend these movies and enjoy them 1-6, it isn't totally about quality, it is more that two stories interject, and only Lucas recognizes one as the main story now: Anakins.

Now I constantly hear that OT fans can't let the PT go and can't stop talking about it years after the movies have been released. I have been asked by many people, if you don't love them, move on! The reason why every OT fan is still in some way talking about the PT is because the OT movies, in whatever way each of us feel were changed in some way to complement the PT. Because of the PT, we get a half assed release of the O-OT on DVD, and if the PT were never made, we would definitely have a nice O-OT DVD Boxset. If the PT were never made, I wouldn't have to watch Hayden in ROTJ, and see Jar Jar celebrating too, that is the PT inflicting the OT movies now. If Lucas would have never touched the OT movies, you would only have a small minority of complainers about the PT, but for now, the PT has definitely affected my enjoyment of the O-OT movies, cause I still can't watch them in top notch quality 9 years after DVD's inception, and that is something that still annoys me: If I want great quality on a DVD, I have to see Hayden at the end of ROTJ.
Post
#246621
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/246621/action/topic#246621
Time
Originally posted by:Jumpman

And whether it was originally written that way or Lucas rethought the entire Saga, you can still watch it numerically and it makes for a very compelling story about the Skywalker family.

It may work a bit better in the way they were released but it works the other way as well.


I am not saying it doesn't work 1-6, cause it can work that way. The problem with watching the PT first, is it sets the OT up for the viewer like this, "More Anakin, I want to know more about this character."

And as I said, Anakin is not the protagonist of the OT as he was in the PT, so it keeps the viewer from enjoying the parts that were great BEFORE it was supposedly Anakin story now. You just said that Han & Leia don't have much story in ESB, and that is because, and don't blame you for this, you want MORE ANAKIN.

I guarantee you watch ANH, and while Luke, Leia and Han are running through the death star cracking jokes, you are waiting for the rematch of Anakin/Obiwan. Every OT movie has half of it with just parts that deal with the friendship of Han, Leia, and Luke, that is the moral of that trilogy, friends will do anything, even take one for the team, just to save their friends.

Lucas does a great job of establishing that in all 3 OT movies and that is why it is so easy to root for Han, Leia, and Luke, their friendship on screen is so well done, when they are in danger, you feel in your in danger, when Leia is heartbroken after Han is frozen, you feel her pain. When Luke leaves Dagobah to rescue Han & Leia, you want him to go but know he is in danger. Notice I didn't mention Darth Vader?

Darth Vader was just a subplot to the whole OT, and I will say a great subplot that added depth to a genre that sorely lacks it in many fantasy movies. The right way to watch the OT movies is through Luke, Leia, and Han not the continuing story of Darth Vader, cause if you are looking for Vader's story, watch all of 20 minutes of ANH, don't turn on ESB til about 40 minutes in, and the same with ROTJ, cause of a good part of those movies center around Luke, Leia, and Han, and that is why they are in all 3 montages in the OT, except for Han missing in ESB.

On the other end, many OT fans are watching the PT out of context, because they are looking for macro stuff (Clone Wars, Rebellion, etc.) that we all wanted to know about since 1983. The PT is a character study on Anakin, and if you don't love that story, you will never love the PT whether you think the movies are good or not. Lucas took a gamble focusing so much on Anakins story, cause that is the centerpiece of every movie (TPM= Young Anakin being found, AOTC = Anakin/Padme falling in love, ROTS = Anakin turning to the darkside)

What are the three biggest complaints about the PT:

1. Anakin as a 10 year old in TPM
2. Anakin/Padme love affair in AOTC
3. Anakins turn to the darkside in ROTS

That is why I can still see the saga 4-6 because that story never changed, it is about Luke, Leia, and Han and how they help the rebels defeat the Empire, with a nice sub-story of Luke redeeming his father, Darth Vader that adds some depth, and that is why I don't need the PT to complete my SW fandom, because I don't love the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker. Sorry, but it aint that interesting for 6 movies now.


Post
#246613
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/246613/action/topic#246613
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
The story is not as linear...this is true. But, it doesn't have to be perfectly linear for the Saga to work.

Look, the end of Episode III made a serioius point of emphasis to focus on the twins and how they represent hope. This continues into the Original Trilogy. Luke Skywalker is the main character of the Original Trilogy but it does come full circle to Anakin at the end when he finally fulfills his destiny, which was his original purpose in the Prequels. So in the end, because of his son, the story of Anakin comes full circle.

And Episode V is all about Luke and Vader. The entire story is driven by Vader's obsession with finding Luke. Han and Leia are window dressing. If Episode V would've had a better plot to keep Han and Leia busy, then I would agree with your assessment. But, it doesn't. It's driven by one character; Vader.



No, it has to be linear to work 1-6, and that is my point. The whole reason Lucas chose Anakin to be a young kid, is he wanted to have a character arc for 6 movies, which is totally different then Lukes in the OT. The OT was a small part of Lukes life, about 3-5 years, and there is a story before and after about him, but that wasn't the point of the OT.

The Saga now as Lucas sees it is to see the young kid in Anakin, the teenage Jedi in Anakin, the bad guy in Vader, and then the death of Vader, which is a true character arc. Now as a story, that is very cool, but the problem was the OT was Never written that way, Vader was always the antagonist, not the main story, and that is why it is so jarring when you get to the OT, especially ANH, the story doesn't have much to do with him when compared to the PT movies. The last hour of ROTJ is the only time Vader takes center stage as 3-Dimensional Character with his feelings, his struggles, and his conflicts. In ESB, he is still one-dimensional, he is still an antagonist to Luke, and that is it. In ROTJ, the Emperor becomes the antagonist, as Vader character has much more depth as compared to ESB, and alot more than ANH.

Episode III shows the twins born, and brought to the foster parents, but you are looking at that scene in the context of seeing the OT already, and that is why it works for you and me. There is nothing that gets into the nitty gritty as to how these kids will affect the future of the Galaxy, other than showing it on screen, CAUSE WE ALREADY KNOW IT!!! The last 10 minutes of ROTS works well only for the viewer who has seen the OT, and I guarantee if Lucas wrote the story 1-6, you wouldn't know about Darth Vader, he would have left off with Anakin burning, and the crowd would think he was dead, just like ObiWan.

As for giving something to do for Han & Leia, those are some of the great parts of the movie? They subtetly fall in love through the movie, and it all comes out when Han is about to be frozen, and they know that they may never see each other again, so they profess their love, which is 100 times more dramatic than Anakin/Padme doing the same exact thing in AOTC before being brought out in the Geonosis Arena. The main story of ESB is Luke and his training on and finding out about his father, but the heart of the movie is Han/Leia, and that is why it is so great, it has two compelling stories going on at once.

But as I have said, many fans of the saga only want to see stuff in the OT about Vader/Luke, and that is why they miss the great parts of Han, Leia, and Luke which is why everyone fell in love with it from 77-83. That is why the OT is watched out of context by many saga fans.
Post
#246603
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/246603/action/topic#246603
Time
The problem with the saga now is that it isn't a linear story, and Lucas is trying to pass that off now as a 1-6 Character arc story of The Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker. Now, that is a very interesting story, but the problem with the saga is that 4-6 was always Lukes story before the PT, it was never about Anakin.

So what you have now is 1-3 as a character study of how Anakin is a little boy and turns to the darkside, which is very interesting, although could have been executed much better. Then we get to 4-6, and you don't really get that continuing story of Anakin Skywalker, because the OT movies weren't made with the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker in mind.

Episode IV has very little to do with Darth Vader, he is just some cool bad guy that kids like me in 1977 loved to death. All he is, is just a bad guy with about 15 minutes of screentime, so you have part 4 of The Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker, and the movie has very little to do with him.

Then you get to ESB, and the first hour again is dominated by the friendship of Han, Leia, and Luke to keep with the theme of ANH, or to anyone who forgets, the THEME OF THE OT before the PT. Cloud City gives the first hint of a bigger story between Luke/Vader with the revelation, but that is more of a plot point, not an overall character arc.

Finally you get to ROTJ, where again the first 40 minutes are dominated by saving Han, or showing that these friends will do anything for each other. The last hour is the only story that matches up with the PT as for the first time we see the inner thoughts of Vader as he begins to be conflicted around Luke, and isn't this bad ass anymore. That subtext worked perfectly when watching the OT in 1983, cause it wasn't the main theme of the trilogy back then, but a side story that added a bit of depth to the conflict of Luke/Vader.

So what has happened is Lucas is trying to marry a trilogy about Anakin 1-3 with a trilogy about Luke, and Leia & Han too, to make up the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker, and to me they are just two seperate stories when you try to watch them 1-6, not because of the quality of the PT, or the quality of the OT, only because they were written that way and Lucas changed the story before the PT.

The PT is just a backstory, and I can enjoy it as just that: information that fills in the blanks of the OT that I wondered since 1983. Now it is up to the viewer whether you view the PT as plot holes or plot holes free when seeing it as a backstory, but make no mistake it is not a linear story about the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker, cause if it was, Vader would be much more prevailent in the OT, especially ANH.
Post
#246508
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/246508/action/topic#246508
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
To be honest, my signing up here has nothing to do with which version is better and what the fans prefer. What I want to understand is the history of the restoration of the Original Trilogy, what was used for the 2004 Boxset, and if he actually does have pristine prints of the Theatrical Versions.

If this place isn't the place to find out the ins and outs of those questions, then I'll leave. But, it just seemed to me that this is the place that would have the best info possible on understanding this entire situation and the history of it.



Hey, I have no problem with that, and I respect that you are inquisitive about the O-OT preservation. In all honesty Jumpman, I 100% believe Lucas has an original copy somewhere in those vaults. He is too smart a businessman not to have that ace in the hole.
Post
#246503
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/246503/action/topic#246503
Time
GoMer & Jumpman are posting here now? What has become of TFN if you guys are bolting there?

You guys continued to post on the O-OT DVD thread on TFN for months and you guys are both love the SE more, so please don't ruin these threads here. Jumpman, you said about 2 weeks ago that you hoped Lucas would never remaster the O-OT on DVD cause it was a waste of his resources, so why would you sign up for this site when the whole point of why we are here is to get the O-OT on DVD in high quality. I really hope this place doesn't get filtered with SE gushers from TFN cause nobody posts there anymore and there is zero diversity, and if you do, please don't start with 'you are getting what you deserve' crap that was fed to every O-OT fan since the May release.
Post
#246042
Topic
Waiting for Episode VII during the lean years (1984-1998)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/246042/action/topic#246042
Time
Originally posted byarth_Evil

I wish people would stop bashing Return of the Jedi. What was wrong with it? The Ewoks weren't that annoying, in fact, they had a big and important role in the film, and I didn't find them nearly as annoying as the jawas in Star Wars. I think it was a very good endnig to the saga, except that Boba Fett didn't exactly get the kind of send off that was proper.



The reason fans like myself bash ROTJ, is because it is not of the quality of SW & ESB. When you look at ROTJ as just a sequel compared to many other sequels, it is a really good film. But when you compare it to SW & ESB, you are following true greatness, and that is why fans are so tough on it.

The same goes for the PT, if they were just a set of films put out in the last 7 years, they would be OK, or entertaining when it comes on HBO, but nothing special. But compare it to the OT, and the films pale in comparision. But that is what happens when you marry the 6 movies together, and have one story, you look at them all together as one entity.

And for whoever said ROTS is better than ROTJ, I disagree, it is on par with ROTJ, they have really great moments and really bad moments. The problem with ROTS is, I call it Episode III: The Movie Montage. The last hour is a just a collection of undeveloped scenes that we all waited 20 years for, showed by Lucas set to music, and that is it. ROTS is average at best as a movie, but the plot points are what make it interesting and that is why many fans think it is so good. To me it is like a Greatest Hits CD that I have of several of my favorite bands, so I don't have take all their individual CD's in my truck with me. Maybe I should call it, Episode III: The PT's Greatest Hits.

I mean in all honesty, what do you see in the last hour that any of us diehard SW fans couldn't have done on screen. Lets see: Show Bail Organa delivering Leia to Alderran for 10 seconds, check. Have Yoda say Leia goes to Alderran, and Luke goes to Tatooine. Show Vader being built for 15 seconds, and then he rises from the table, check. Have a lightsaber duel over a volcano that goes on too long, and has zero drama in it, and just let them flail at each other. The only reason anyone of us like ROTS, is it is a collection of cool images we were hoping to see since 1983, but overall it is not a great movie.
Post
#245760
Topic
"BUT ANAMORPHIC ENHANCEMENT ALTERS THE MOVIES!!!"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/245760/action/topic#245760
Time
Originally posted by: Raul2106
Guys I have no reason to lie to anybody. I am not going to sit here and defend my statements. Believe what you wish. I will bring you the info if you want to hear it when it is presented to me. I do not have the name of the restoration artist. What I do have is a life outside of the Star Wars Trilogy. So while people sit around lazily trying to debunk everything I say. Just remember one thing 2007 is the 30th Anniversary of Star Wars. Do you actually think that LFL will pass on the chance to milk the market with SW DVDs one last time? I am not even telling you to take my word for it. Read between the lines has been my entire position throughout this thread. I have not made one impossible statement. I thought I would be a good guy and pass some good news along to my favorite forum. However, people would rather think ill of me. We all KNOW how George Lucas in when it comes to home video formats. You wanna talk about Blu-Ray and HD? Think about it! You will be waiting a long time because George doesn't have any plans on bringing Star Wars anywhere near those formats, till we have a declared winner and the new standard has been set for several years. MAY THE FORCE BE WITH ALL OF YOU!


I agree with you, as much as we all think Lucas is a jerk, the man is a genius when it comes to marketing and making $$$$$$$$$. What everyone forgets is that he is a business, not an artist anymore, so making money, especially when there is no new movies to make 900 million worldwide anymore, is the essential to keeping his business going.

I think Lucas will include in the 2007 Saga boxset:

1. OT/SE (more updates)
2. O-OT (fully restored)
3. PT (theatrical releases)
4. PT/SE (CG Yoda, deleted scenes inserted in the movie?)
5. OT Deleted Scenes
6. More Documentaries on each film

That covers the whole SW fandom, and that will be the last release before DVD goes into its twilight. The HD-DVD starts getting big in the next few years, and we can go through this all again............