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Post: #250965
Topic: What do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? a general discussion thread
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250965/action/topic#250965
Time: 12-Oct-2006 1:05 PM

Originally posted by: Jumpman
CO,

I saw Jedi in '83. Having Hayden at the end didn't insult me. It made sense to me, after having seen the Prequels. And that's what this is really, truly about. It's about Lucas completing it as a Saga with the "inferior" Prequels than letting the Original Trilogy stand on it's own....

As for him stopping, I personally believe that the changes that are coming in the upcoming Saga Boxset will be so small that they won't even be worth arguing over. See, you feel that the changes destroyed the credibility of Star Wars...what they were at their core foundation. I feel that the core foundation is still intact, whether it theatrical version or special edition. The core foundation hasn't changed in 30 years....

Plus, you don't have to continue on, you know. You probably have a few copies on VHS or Laserdisc, I'm guessing. If you do, continue to love the theatrical versions in that format. Nothing is stopping you.

But that was never lucas intention of the SE. He says in the Laserdisk interview, he just wanted to change ANH back in early 90's mostly cause of MosEisley, and that is why ANH is the most changed. He never intended to changed ESB & ROTJ, he says it in the interview, so this thing about his vision is baloney. He put Hayden there as a visual gimmick cause he couldnt' write the PT to match the OT in his narrative. Younger Anakin makes no sense as a force ghost because it was old Anakin who was conflicted in ROTJ, who killed the sith and fullfilled the prophecy in ROTJ, and talked to Luke to redeem himself in ROTJ. That was a full character arc of Anakin, and he redeemed himself as an old man, by showing young Anakin, it defeats the purpose of ROTJ, cause Lucas is now saying they are two people Anakin/Vader, and the whole moral of the saga is they are the SAME PERSON.

Post: #250963
Topic: What do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? a general discussion thread
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250963/action/topic#250963
Time: 12-Oct-2006 1:01 PM

Originally posted by: Jumpman
CO,

Again, Lucas is accomodated himself. Who are we to say what he can change and what he can't change? It's his films. If he feels the need to change them to satisfy his creative mind, why can't he do that? He owns everything Star Wars.

You're right though. If the special editions never existed, we wouldn't have this. But for me, no matter what form, the Original Trilogy is the Original Trilogy. Updated effects can't change the fact that the story, plot, and characters remain the same. The outcome at the end of it all is the same. The feel is the same.

Nobody has a problem with the SE as long as the O-OT gets released with the same respect. I actually like the LOTR theatrical versions, but most of my friends like the EE, so that fanbase is split too, but the release of LOTR Trilogy last month had both versions in the same boxset, cause Peter Jackson doesn't have a complex about which version the fans love.

Post: #250937
Topic: What do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? a general discussion thread
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250937/action/topic#250937
Time: 12-Oct-2006 11:40 AM

Originally posted by: Jumpman
CO,

Let me ask you a question. If Lucas never came out with the Limited Editions and remained firm in his decision never to release the theatrical versions, could you live with the Special Editions as the only version of the Original Trilogy on DVD and future formats?

I watched the 2004 ROTJ SE once, and once I saw Hayden as that ghost, it totally turned me off from ever watching that movie again. That one change is insulting to any fan who saw the movie in 1983, cause once you start changing characters in the OT movies, you HAVE to release the original versions in the same set cause it is so jarring. I always loved the ending of ROTJ, I am big on the montages even in the PT movies as they are all very good too. There was nothing better that gave the trilogy closure then seeing grandfather-like Anakin there next to Yoda & Alec Guiness, and just that one change prevents me from enjoying the movie, cause that is not special effects he couldn't do in 1983, that is now changing the context of a movie.

Could I live with ANH & ESB circa 1997 versions, I probably could, and if I could get the 1997 ROTJ with Sebastian Shaw, that would be sort my deal with Lucas to meet in the middle of what I love and his vision. But the bottom line is he keeps tinkering with these movies, and that one change just turned me off cause it was just a ploy to tie up the saga visually cause he couldn't do it through writing the movies. And you know Jumpman, he will never stop, so why should I have to keep dealling with his changing vision?

Post: #250935
Topic: What do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? a general discussion thread
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250935/action/topic#250935
Time: 12-Oct-2006 11:34 AM

Originally posted by: Jumpman

As to your questions, obviously the theatrical versions would sell the most but that's not because they're the theatrical versions. It's because it was the first time the Original Trilogy was out on DVD. No matter which version you put out, in 2004, that boxset was going to sell huge regardless. Why? Because it was the Original Trilogy.

There's no way of really telling how the versions are split between consumers, in terms of preference. And to be honest, I don't think average consumers can tell the difference, mainly because the characters and plot haven't changed between the versions....

.

Yeah, but Jumpman how many people do you know would hold out and not buy the O-OT, and look for some SE bootlegs if that was the case? There are so many fans who didn't buy the SE, and waited for the O-OT, and are even waiting today for a remastered O-OT. My whole point is the SE split the fanbase, and that is just the way it is, you prefer one and i prefer another, so because of the popularity we should both be accomodated.

If Lucas never did a SE, and the O-OT were always there, the same fans who love the SE would still love the O-OT, it is only after seeing new effects that they see the O-OT as inferior, but if they were never updated, there would be no frame of reference. I will always say the SE created ZERO new SW fans, cause I am confident those same fans would have fallen love with SW regardless, and the bottom line is from 1977-96 it was the best trilogy in terms of popularity, why should it change?

Post: #250914
Topic: What do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? a general discussion thread
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250914/action/topic#250914
Time: 12-Oct-2006 9:58 AM

Jumpman, sorry to double post, but I will ask you this question:

Say Lucas released the O-OT in 2004 in Anamorphic, fully remastered, and didn't release the SE at all. Then released the SE this year non-anamorphic and average laserdisk quality that the disk are now,

1. Do you think the SE in non anamorphic would still outsell the O-OT in anamorphic?

2. Do you think the SE in non anamorphic would even outsell the O-OT in the same quality?

3. Do you think the 97 SE would sell at all if it were released on DVD?

My point is many fans bought the 2004 DVD's cause Lucas said he would never put out the O-OT ever again, so why are those people buying the O-OT in average quality, and thus putting in the top 10 of DVD sales when it seems to you and Lucas that only a handful of whiners really wants them?

Post: #250908
Topic: What do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? a general discussion thread
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250908/action/topic#250908
Time: 12-Oct-2006 9:36 AM

Originally posted by: Jumpman
CO,

But we've been enjoying the films on VHS and Laserdisc for over twenty years now...in it's original state. Is Lucas REQUIRED to continue that just because DVD is the NEW thing?

On top of that, and we'll obviously agree to disagree here, but in his mind, the Original Trilogy made it's debut on DVD in 2004...with the cleanup he deemed neccessary...eventhough we all know it was a rush job and it's not entirely finished. Still, his movies, his way, and will always be his way when he's no longer with us, will be Original Trilogy in its Special Edition form, in the future and forever. There's no way of getting around that any longer.

And personally, the market for the theatrical versions is a niche market anyway. I don't really think the masses see the difference any longer, if you go buy DVD sales of the 2004 set. It's only the film community and certain types in the media who've been at Lucas for years that actually really, truly care about this situation.

As for a niche market, that is only the vocal ones. I will always say that most OT fans PREFER the O-OT to the SE, but not everyone is on the internet everyday like myself and others here, cause some people arent' that passionate. Just look at the numbers from Videoscan on the O-OT release:

They all finished in the top 10 of sales, ANH #5, ESB #6, and ROTJ #7, and that is a set of movies that are non-anamorphic, which if you look at the DVDs that came out in 2006, 99% of them are Anamorphic Great Quality. That means that a supbar, average, grainy looking release of SW still sold in the top 10!

Cleanup and Remastering are different than Added Effects and Scenes. EVERY DVD that is of an old movie is remastered and cleaned up: The Godfather, Indiana Jones, Citizen Kane, and even Wizard of Oz. So the O-OT deserved that much respect as the other movies, but the SE in 2004 is different not cause of the clean up and remastering job, but the added effects from 97 and from '04 that make this set different. Just look at E.T, same transfer, two versions, everyone is happy.

If you and Lucas want to hold firm that the 2004 Versions are what the OT is now and say the O-OT is a thing of the past, why did it finish in the top 10 of DVD sales when it isn't even great quality? PEOPLE PREFER IT, there just isn't millions of idiots like me who post on a SW board everyday, and that is the difference. Every friend I know bought this release in Sept, and they also bought the 2004 release too thinking that was the only version that was ever going to be released, but now they prefer to watch inferior quality of the O-OT over superior quality of the SE, so that may tell you about that niche audience may be bigger then you think.

Post: #250894
Topic: What do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? a general discussion thread
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250894/action/topic#250894
Time: 12-Oct-2006 7:02 AM

Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic

While I'm entirely for that, and can relate to people who do not like much of what Lucas has done since ROTJ, I still think that sometimes a lot of us give Lucas a worse rap than he deserves over the whole thing.

It is real simple: Release the O-OT in the same high quality as every DVD on the market circa 2006, and Lucas will never hear from us again. Sure people will always complain about the movies, but don't they do that on Matrix Message Boards towards Reloaded and Revolutions? You don't think Rocky fans are going make fun of Rocky VI when it comes out in December, just as much as they made fun of Rocky V 15 years ago? That is the nature of movies, but the last time I checked I have Rocky & The Matrix on DVD and they are of great quality, and Lucas would just release the damn movies without all the tag lines: 'non-anamorphic,' 'bonus material,' and 'these versions don't exist anymore,' then we can all move on in our lives. Lucas gets a bad rap from many OT fans cause he has turned his back on the versions that gave him independence to do whatever he wants from the studios, and now he is doing it exactly to the OT fans from 77-83 who supported him like no end. Kinda ironic Gomer?

You can say what you want about the SE & PT movies, and I have no problem with them being made and being out there for new fans to experience. I have my personal opinions on how SW fandom will play out in the future, but that is the way it is. The sad fact is there are millions of fans who saw the movies from 77-83 one way, and loved them that way, and the fact that Lucas totally disregards that market now shows that he is not a man of his fanbase, cause nearly every damn movie that is a directors cut or special edition, contains the original version in just as good quality along side it, and for Lucas to shove off this fanbase, for however big it is, is the ultimate point of thumbing your nose at the fans, and that is why we all have problems with the guy. I don't hate him personaly, I respect that he is one of the few family men in Hollywood, but he is the one who won't let fans just experience the OT the way we want to on DVD, and it is very frustrating when I have to hit zoom everytime I watch my 3 favorite movies.

Post: #250725
Topic: What do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? a general discussion thread
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250725/action/topic#250725
Time: 11-Oct-2006 12:25 PM

Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Are you going to bother explaining how you came to the conlusion that nobody says the classic trilogy is perfect when I was able to quote you saying that exact phrasing from not more than a week or two ago?

Forget critics? That would mean I should forget your criticism as well.

What makes you so much smarter than the critics who didn't "get" what made the classic trilogy so great at first?

Wait a second, I was saying the OT was perfect compared to the SE, and they didn't need any tinkering. You can tinker all you want with ROTJ, doing this and that to it is not going to make it a better movie, so yes it is perfect compared to the SE, but it is an average movie when taken in movie sense.

Where do I get my conclusions? I have nephews that from the ages of 6-10 years old that grew up with the PT and saw the saga 1-6, and they were really into it last year when ROTS came out, but it was a faze and that is different then the OT days for me and my friends after '83. I am not saying they don't like the SW movies, they enjoyed them last year, but cause they never fell in love with one movie cause they were watching it as a 1-6 entity, it is more of something they like that was the flavor of the month, but this summer, they are all Pirates of the Caribbean.

For me growing up, SW '77 was the movie that grabbed me as a fan, and I don't think ESB & ROTJ are as great as that movie in 1977, but I do care more about Luke, Leia, and Han, so I will always be an OT fan. After '83, I still loved and watched the movies endlessly, my nephews haven't touched ANY of the SW movies, including the OT cause they don't love it, and that is because they are a bunch of movies that some are good and some are bad to them, so why would they revisit them if they don't think they are all great? In 1985, I loved Back to the Future and watched that on Video thousands of times, but I never pushed off the OT like my nephews have done, to them it is just another set of cool movies that they will revisit every once in a while. SW for me and many of my friends, it was a religion, and that is the difference when you start making average movies.

Post: #250714
Topic: What do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? a general discussion thread
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250714/action/topic#250714
Time: 11-Oct-2006 11:30 AM

Originally posted by: Jumpman

That's a pretty big generalization of fans of the Prequels. You can't really make that statement. Everyone has their reason for watching and enjoying the Prequels as they do with the Originals. The difference is time in which the Original Trilogy was released to the masses. A New Hope was something nobody every experienced before...period. And you can say the same for the film industry. It was a film that changed EVERYTHING on numerous levels.

As you stated, the Prequels were going to be unfairly compared to the Originals. It's impossible to live up to the standards set 16 years prior. Everything about our culture, when it comes to films and the film industry, is totally different.

Also remember, the Original Trilogy was not widely praised upon their releases as some would like to think they were. It is only when critics took a step back and saw them for what they were that the praise came. Some critics were ahead of their time. Others were not. Star Wars isn't the first film to have that happen to it. De Palma's Scarface is a great example.

Will this happen to the Prequels? It just depends. They won't get the almighty praise the Originals get but I think, when time passes on, they'll be looked on more favorably.

Forget the critics, I really don't care about the critics, I am talking about the fans. The PT is criticized by the fans, and I agree the critics have been taking shots at SW for years.

You guys missed my original point, ANH or SW '77 is the easiest movie to sell to ANY type of moviegoer. It is a basic story of good vs evil, and you really don't have to be a scifi/fantasy fan to fall in love with it, and you really don't have to be a SW fan to love it either. Everyone of us saw that movie first and fell in love or really liked it enough to want to watch more SW movies. Everyone I know in my family loves ANH, but none of them ever loved ESB & ROTJ, cause that was more for the diehard fan who wanted more, so of course the popularity has never been the same even since 1977.

By watching the saga 1-6 now, you throw away ANH as a standalone movie to get the mass viewer into SW, cause now they are watching it in saga terms, or Anakins story, and the movie will not be the same as just renting ANH on a Friday night as a standalone movie that technically has an ending.

I am just saying that the 1-6 saga fanbase in the future has to love Anakins story to be fans, cause they are just not going to just pick 4-6 like I can do, cause they won't see the saga that way. To me it is either take the story or leave it, and I think many fans will think the saga 1-6 is OK, but not want to watch 8,000 times like we did cause there was not that one film to grasp them like the OT did.

There is a reason Lucas made the OT story first, even he says it, it is an easier sell to the mass public, cause the PT movies are not as funny, not as much action in terms of the rebels constantly on the run, and the characters don't appeal to the average moviegoer cause the PT contains all political people: Jedi, Senators, Chancellors,etc.

The bottom line for me and this is what made the OT great, is does these movies have replay value? For replay value, the PT movies don't come close to the OT movies,, but I say forget critics, just think of what the SW fans say, and that is what really counts.

Post: #250699
Topic: What do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? a general discussion thread
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250699/action/topic#250699
Time: 11-Oct-2006 10:12 AM

Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
It's also possible for someone to go into the prequels with a double standard that favors the classic trilogy.

I think a lot of us saw the classic trilogy when we were much younger, and a lot of us just accepted it unconditionally. Some of us actually go so far as to call them perfect. Now we are older, we know more about how movies are made, and we pick up on the seams in the tapestry Lucas is weaving with these films.

I really think a lot of the things people say are bad in the prequels, were also issues in the classic trilogy. Maybe if we were 20 some years older than we were when we first saw them, we would be picking apart the classic trilogy in the same way a lot of us pick apart the prequles, but we already accepted them into our hearts when our minds were much more open and now they enjoy a granfather clause that keeps them from being subject to the same critical reasoning a lot of us use to condemn the prequels.

I disagree with that Gomer, actually I think the reason many fans like myself still give the PT a try every once in a while is because of the OT and the hope that 1-6 works the same way 4-6 did for 20 years.

Whatever you want to say nobody ever says that the OT is perfect. For me, and I have said this many times, ROTJ is an average film that ranks to the level of the PT movies in terms of pacing, acting, plot points, etc. The only reason ROTJ gets a pass from me is because it ties up the OT good enought that it is satisfying. So I look at the OT as two classics and one OK movie, and that is fine with me. If you are asking me now to watch the saga with 2 classics and 4 OK movies, that is a bit much.

Being young and loving SW has nothing to do with my love of SW now. Great movies are great movies, and if ESB were of quality of ROTJ, then I wouldn't even be an OT fan. Sure as a kid you watch movies for a different reason then you do when you are older, but that doesn't mean that we are watching movies for nostalgia purposes now, cause if that were the case, I would be watching The Karate Kid just as much as SW, but I can't cause that movie did not pass the test of time for me.

The PT movies have the luxury and burden of being tied to the OT movies. They have the luxury that fans saw each one in the movies from 99-05 even though they may not have like any one of them! They have the luxury of having OT fans give them a second chance cause that many average movies would never get after a person sees it the first time.

Now the burden they carry is that they will always be compared to the OT movies, so in that respect, they were never going to live up to that quality, but as I said, either did ROTJ.

As for new fans seeing the saga 1-6, I do believe that there won't be this huge divide among trilogies, cause either the new fan will accept the story or not in its entirety. The problem now is the saga is a tougher sell to the average fan who fell in love with ANH as their first love, and that is because the story of Anakin just won't appeal to the mainstream moviegoer. The saga now 1-6 is more tragic because it is really about Anakin now, so you have to love that story to love all 6 movies since they won't be seeing it as 2 trilogies, and that type of story just doesn't resonate the same way the OT 4-6 movies did to the mainstream fan because that was a basic good vs evil story that has a upbeat message and were fun to follow to the good guys for two hours.

I am actually thankful I see them as two trilogies cause even though I dont hate the PT movies like many do here, I am just not interested in the story of Anakin, the same way I love the upbeat story of Luke, Leia, and Han. SW '77 was what sold me as a fan, and that is why that movie has grossed more than all other 5 SW movies, cause that is the most appealing to the mainstream fan. The saga now will appeal to people who really love anything with SW, cause it is much different than just watching the OT 4-6. I know so many friends who love the OT 4-6 story, that just never got into EU & the PT movies, cause they weren't diehard SciFi fans. But the ones that liked the PT and were jazzed about it for years, were the ones that liked the EU stuff and wanted more. The problem GoMer is the reason SW became so popular during the OT was the MASS of fans who loved the movies, not the niche diehards that seem to love the PT.

Post: #250290
Topic: Favorite Star Wars Movie
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250290/action/topic#250290
Time: 8-Oct-2006 2:26 PM

Originally posted by: Dr. Tongue
Funny thing is, back in the day, ROTJ was considered the most action packed of the series (Or at least among my friends and I). I mean, the entire second half of the movie is one big battle/chase.

And I remember everyone loving the scenes in Jabba's palace as well, 'cause after the first two movies hyping this guy, he totally lived up to all of our expectations. Totally ruthless and disgusting, ruling over all of Tatooine's scum and villiany. I'll never forget the first time they showed Jabba on the big screen, almost every kid in the theater shouted "Woah!"

Good point, and that is exactly how I felt in 1983. For some reason I was utterly fascinated with Jabba's palace, I remember watching a documentary on how they had Jabba move with all the people in the backround. You are right, we wondered for 3 movies what the hell is the big deal about this guy, what does he look like, what makes him so powerful.

Ooops, all gone now with the SE, you now see Jabba in ANH and all that anticipation I know I had as a kid before ROTJ is lost now......... Another brilliant change by Sir George.

Post: #250263
Topic: Favorite Star Wars Movie
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250263/action/topic#250263
Time: 8-Oct-2006 9:02 AM

Back to the Future II, atleast Zemeckis admits he didn't have this grand plan all along, other then our creator who never tells the truth on Documentaries. Can you say egomaniac?

I read an interesting editorial on what has happened to the SW fanbase since the PT is over:

-He has made 25% of the fans happy who really like the story of Anakin and the PT
-He has made 50% of the fans pissed off now who really like the OT and didn't want it changed
-He has made 25% of the fans think it is mediocre now who were not diehards but thought the OT movies were good in their day.

Hey George, you say that SW was 25% complete in 1977 and that is why you did the SE, well atleast you were able to make 25% of the fanbase happy after the PT.

Post: #250244
Topic: Favorite Star Wars Movie
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250244/action/topic#250244
Time: 8-Oct-2006 1:35 AM

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I agree. I mean, I love looking at the sequels in context of Vader's redemption, but the star always is Luke throughout all three of them. The goals that have to be accomplished, whether defeating the Empire as a whole or saving Vader, they're all Luke's goals that we're taken along for. What bugs me most about the 1-6 mentality is that the original movies simply don't fit that mold. You can tie the sequels to the original movie because the motivations in all three are Luke's. You have to do a lot of mental stretching to believe that the original movies are Anakin's story as well as the prequels.

Exactly, and that is why I never had a problem as an OT fan even though SW '77 was my favorite movie of all-time. ESB & ROTJ enriched SW '77, but they didn't change it the overall story, even though Lucas fudged a couple of family members in there!

My point was Lucas never changed SW '77 to fit ESB & ROTJ, he wrote ESB & ROTJ to fit SW '77, and tried to work around the new plot points like Vader being Lukes father, and Leia being Lukes sister. The worst thing he could have done was go back and reshoot some scenes in SW '77 like Kenobi/Luke conversation, cause that would have probably turned me off from being an OT fans and I probably would have stayed a SW '77 fan.

I like that the OT enriches the basic SW '77 movie, and I really do think the patchwork making it on the fly story Lucas eventually ended up with in 1983 is pretty good. It flows well, it keeps its basic message from 1977, and gives you closure.

The problem with the PT movies, putting asides its faults, is the story doesn't enrich the OT, but it fucking changes it! Lucas has said in past interviews he wanted fans to look at the OT in a whole different way after the PT, and that is just wrong. There is nothing wrong with looking at certain aspects that the PT fleshes out that enriches the OT, but the basic premise of the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker now for 6 movies really does an injustice to 4-6. Not only did Lucas put out average PT movies that only a niche audience really loves, but he has fucked up the OT now, so any newcomer will watch it out context.

Post: #250178
Topic: "..secret to the future is quantity," Lucas said
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250178/action/topic#250178
Time: 7-Oct-2006 12:45 PM

I just find it funny or a big coincidence that Sir George made 3 blockbusters in the last 7 years, and only now is he proclaiming that movies are dying and TV is the medium of the future. Could it be cause SW will have TV shows in the future instead of movies to cash in for the zillionth time?

Whatever happened to digital technology you were pushing with AOTC & ROTS George? If that was such a big deal, then why are movies dying out now?

In some ways I agree with Lucas that the big budget movies are overbloated, but I think the PT movies were the same, but they just had the SW name to ensure big boxoffice returns. As always, Lucas is just putting his finger in the wind on what suits him best in 2006, and whenever he speaks anymore I never know if he is being honest or political.

Post: #250176
Topic: What do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? a general discussion thread
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250176/action/topic#250176
Time: 7-Oct-2006 12:37 PM

Another misinterpreted line in AOTC is, "I don't like sand, it is coarse, and it gets all over."

.....................No wait, he really does say that awful line!

Post: #250174
Topic: Favorite Star Wars Movie
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250174/action/topic#250174
Time: 7-Oct-2006 12:34 PM

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I guess the difference in opinion could stem from the fact that I didn't have to wait three years for the resolution. I could go right to the next movie and find out how it all ended, while you were stuck with this drop forever.

That is an interesting way of looking at it, and I guess seeing every movie in their respective year does have a different effect then seeing them right after each other.

I will say that after seeing SW in '77, I was one who didn't want sequels, and I just loved the original so much, I got it in my mind, "How can you top this?" So for years, I was an OT fan, but nothing really beat the Original SW. As I got older and started looking more into the story, that is where the ESB & ROTJ really made SW that much better, cause they enriched the whole story. (Something the Prequels should have done!)

Gaffer, you may be suprised but I have never been a huge fan of 'I am your father' and I think that is where the split among SW '77 & ESB fans come in to what is their favorite. I just love the rebels vs empire story, and just following the good guys. Darth Vader was always cool as hell to me, but the more Lucas delved into his personality, the more turned off I became. I don't mind that the OT has Vaders story of redemption in it, cause the story is still about Luke, but it bothers me now that the saga 1-6 is supposed to be watched as a character arc of Anakin Skywalker. For me, that just isn't nearly that interesting, even if it was done well.

Post: #250157
Topic: 2004 DVD crap-o-la
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250157/action/topic#250157
Time: 7-Oct-2006 10:35 AM

Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic

Sure it's not perfect. But I say it's still closer to perfect than they ever were before.

But it was perfect before, and didn't need all that B.S. additions to it. If Lucas cleaned up the picture and spruced up some effects, 99% of the fans wouldn't have a problem with the SE. Gomer it is the scenes that just stick out of these classic movies and DIDNT need to be changed. We didn't need Hayden in ROTJ, we didn't need Greedo shooting first, we didn't need Vaders arrival in ESB after leaving Bespin, we didn't need Jedi Rocks, etc. The movies were already great and defined movies even in todays standards, and you only fix something if it is broke, the O-OT was such a success, why **** with it?

I constantly hear SE & PT fans say, "Sure, it isn't perfect....." Well, for me the O-OT is perfect, and of course that is my opinion, but that is why I love it so much, there is nothing that bothers me where I have to make excuses for. I just feel if you have to trot out the line, 'nothing is perfect' then that tells me you see the same flaws I do.

If Lucas would have just released every DVD version with the O-OT/SE together in the same quality, nobody would have a problem, but the more Lucas tightens his grip on the O-OT and tries to kill it, the more fans will walk away and put their hands up.

Post: #250154
Topic: Favorite Star Wars Movie
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250154/action/topic#250154
Time: 7-Oct-2006 8:35 AM

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I voted ESB. I always find it interestin that CO always says that ESB was too dark for him as a kid, whereas I was about the same age when I saw it and loved how dark it was and especially loved how the heroes got beaten around the block for the entire movie. It was great! But Star Wars is a very, very close second. Especially after having gotten the DVDs, I've been appreciating the magic of the first movie more and more, and it's helped a lot that it's lacking all of the crappy additions that George made. There is just something so special about it. So it's very close to me between those two movies, but I had to go for ESB in the end.

If I made this list in 1983, I would be gushing about ROTJ, saying that was a close second to SW, and ESB would rank 3rd on my list. I can't say I hate ESB when it came, and even when it came to HBO in 1986, I was in Jr. High, I still didn't love the movie like Jedi & SW. I remember the day Jedi came out to buy on VHS in the mid to late 80's, I bought it and loved it. I really think my problems with ESB stemmed from the darker tone and the lack of resolution, and Jedi had that resolution that SW had in '77. I guess as a kid, I didn't want to watch a movie without a proper ending, I felt it to be very anti-climatic.

But I do remember when ESB finally hit as the great movie it is, I got one of VHS boxsets in High School, I believe I was in 11th grade, and I watched all 3, and it had been a couple of years since I really watched all 3 SW movies since being in High School was the first time I thought it wasn't cool to like SW and tried to distance myself from the movies.

I watched SW and always get the same result: nothing beats it, and that has never changed. But being older now and watching ESB, I remember just being utterly speechless after watching it and saying, "God, that is such a great F**** movie, what the hell was I thinking all those years?" As I watched Jedi, I started really noticing the ewoks, and the slower parts of the movie stuck out now, but watching it as a trilogy really put ESB in context for me, and the lack of resolution didn't bother me anymore.

And that hasn't changed for the past 15 years, SW & ESB are really the same in terms of quality, but I just love SW more cause of the standalone movie it can be watched as whenever I feel like it. But I will give Kersh credit for really delving into the characters more in ESB, and that is its biggest strength, not 'I am your father."

Post: #250115
Topic: Favorite Star Wars Movie
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250115/action/topic#250115
Time: 6-Oct-2006 10:48 PM

Originally posted by: Seiji
Did a lot of you see them when they were originally released in '77, '80, '83?

I don't know the age group here.

I was too young to see the first, I was a one-year-old. Never saw Empire, still too young. However, I do remeber seeing Return of the Jedi, when I was 7. Well, some of it I remember, mostly Jabba's palace! I remember being totally mesmerized by all the strange creatures, especially Jabba. His whole creation is something to behold, looking back at it now. He looked so real, slimy, gross, disgusting, and you wouldn't want to within 10 feet of the thing. From the synthetic to the final product, the creative talent that went into creature design and creation, really something to marvel at ... even to this day!

Saw SW in '77 at five years old, and loved it from day one, cause the characters just grab you right into the story, and never look back. Saw ESB at 8 years old and have to say was a bit too dark for me, and partially I feel the reason Lucas has gone kiddy ever since, he didn't want to lose kids my age for merchandising if these movies were too adult, so that is why The Ewoks & Jar Jar have appeared in the same galaxy as Chewy & Yoda. At 11 years old, I loved ROTJ, and now I think it is OK, but a good enough ending for me on the saga. But it proves that alot of young kids who are wowed by the PT now will grow up and start noticing its flaws the same way I was with ROTJ when I hit high school, it never fails.

Post: #250114
Topic: What do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? a general discussion thread
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250114/action/topic#250114
Time: 6-Oct-2006 10:43 PM

Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Heehee, CO is the brother I never knew I had.

If this were George Lucas's world, that could be arranged in the next movie cause who really cares what happened in our past, as long as it works in the present.

Post: #250098
Topic: What do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? a general discussion thread
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250098/action/topic#250098
Time: 6-Oct-2006 8:49 PM

Originally posted by: Guy Caballero
I like it. Just not as much as the original trilogy. I like Clones the least, but I'm curious to see if Lucas does anything with it next year. I can't shake the feeling that Lucas wasn't quite happy with it. He was burdened with a lot of extra hassles during that movie: casting Anakin all over again, working the kinks out of the digital camera, a CGi Yoda, bringing in that last-minute writer, who was then not asked back for III, or ever mentioned again. I think it's also significant that he brought in an outside editor for Sith, after Ben Burtt cut Clones all on his own, (AND doing the sound) which could not have been ideal.

It is funny cause if I had to pick which PT movie is my favorite, and it is kind of like picking whether I loved Algebra, Geometry, or Trig, I would say that AOTC is the one.

I will say that the Anakin/Padme scenes are truly cringeworthy, but I went through the whole movie once, and they equate to about 10 minutes of the movie of them just talking while NOTHING is happening. I will take 10 minutes of awful love dialogue from Anakin/Padme over 2 annoying hours of Jar Jar mucking up every scene.

I actually think AOTC is the most fun of the PT movies, cause it was before Lucas fucked up every plot point he develped when ROTS rolled around. Before ROTS, you didn't know Anakin was going to turn quicker then a light switch, you didn't know Padme would lose the will to live, you still wondered about the duel on the Volcano planet, and you still had hopes that ROTS would be the shit. The last hour of AOTC is just popcorn entertainment that is hell of alot better then some of the awful shit in ROTS, "From my point of the view, the Jedi were always evil!" I still don't know why Anakin says that on Mustafar, didn't he just say after chopping Mace's hand off, "What have I done?" That is the stupid shit that kills ROTS, and stuff I never thought about in 2002.

Post: #250060
Topic: Favorite Star Wars Movie
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250060/action/topic#250060
Time: 6-Oct-2006 4:36 PM

Originally posted by

uggo - Jar Jar's "Yoda"
Naturally, this isn't exactly an objective audience... after all, this is originaltrilogy.com. Which movies do we suppose people here are going to prefer? If this were prequel.com, the results would likely be reversed.
.

You're right that ROTS would be up there if this were a PT crowd, but putting that aside, it does say something that ESB & SW are tied right now, and ROTJ has zero votes. Sure this isn't a scientific poll, but I feel this is what made the OT great, two classics and one good sequel in ROTJ.

Most of my friends fall exactly the way this poll is, there is a group like me who love SW more, and they seem to be more ObiWan/Luke fans, and then I have friends who love ESB and they are more Han Solo/Vader fans. But not one friend I know, and they are all 30-somethings now who saw SW in 1977, thinks ROTJ is the best, and that shows that quality will eventually show its true colors to the fans years later.

All the PT fans love the PT movies cause I still feel they are the flavor of the month, cause I loved ROTJ at 11 years old back in '83, but as time goes on and you get older, all of the sudden you begin to realize movie quality. I don't begrudge anyone for enjoying the PT, but I think they will have a big revelation 10-15 years from now when they try to watch the movies again and again, you just can't watch an average movie over and over, unless you are content with it.

Post: #249916
Topic: Favorite Star Wars Movie
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249916/action/topic#249916
Time: 5-Oct-2006 11:50 PM

I am waiting for that first Prequel vote..........

Post: #249896
Topic: Favorite Star Wars Movie
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249896/action/topic#249896
Time: 5-Oct-2006 10:25 PM

Star Wars will always be my favorite, partially cause it is a standalone movie that can be enjoyed with a true ending, and partially cause it just has so many 'it' moments that make movies special. But I will say ESB is 1a to me, cause it is probably a better made movie, partially because of the bigger budget (one of the few times in history a bigger budget actually made a movie better then worse). ROTJ is a distant third, a movie I will always love, but won't be naive to say it is not a great movie, as many PT gushers on TFn can't seem to grasp that every movie is different, and there are no 6 movies that anyone sees the same. You can enjoy them on the same level, as I do with the OT movies 4,5,6, but to say that you can't pick your favorite, you are just lying and just trying to defend 2005 Lucas and his new montra, "It is supposed to be seen as one 12 hour movie......" Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.

Post: #249705
Topic: What do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? a general discussion thread
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/249705/action/topic#249705
Time: 5-Oct-2006 7:58 AM

Originally posted by: SW
Yes but all fans own the whole saga now even if they think the PT sucks

Yes, and I also have the Rocky boxset too of all 5 movies, but that wont blind me to believe that Rocky V still sucks, and The Original Rocky is the one of the greatest movies ever. Quality trumps boxsets anyday.