Ripplin said:^Nice one, CO. :)
P.S. What was your last username? I'm drawing a blank! :(
I've been CO all the time at OT.com, but I had 5 names at TFN since I was banned there about every other week;)
C3PX said:What is "TPM"? I am not sure I have ever even heard of this film. ;)
You never heard of Episode I: Took People's Money.
Sluggo said:I think this thread reflects how most on this board think about TPM a decade later. It is forgotten and people have moved on to other movies. lol
LOL!
C3PX said:As for the Matrix, that is its whole thing. It tries to be as confusing as possible with the intention of the audience mistaking it as being deep and profound. And boy did it work! Every time I hear someone call it "a thinking man's sci-fi trilogy" I start weeping inside.
I respectfully disagree. The Original Matrix is an innovative thinking man sci-fi movie, but I will admit the sequels were trying to be too much of a thinking mans movie, and they become overbloated.
I really enjoy The Original Matrix, and I think is one of the few movies from this genre in the past 15-20 years that really holds up well. I was suprised the movie did that well in the theaters because I really thought it would turn off many moviegoers because it had an interesting story, but it was able to combine that will cool special effects, so it pulled people like me who enjoy a good story when I go to the movies, and all the dummies out there who just want to see special effects;)
Sluggo said:To me, there is one big give-away to this lie of Original Intent. All of those things that we know are in the file of original intent (such as Anakin wanting his son to have his lightsaber when he was old enough and Leia remembering her mother) aren't really in the films at all.
Obi-wan stopping to pick up Anakin's saber had to be filmed in pick-up shots because Lucas forgot all about it and wrote it in at the last minute. And no attempt to make the scene even match the original trilogy, either.
Unbelievable how Lucas forgot about that!
The best Lucas 'being out of touch with the OT' story was Lucas admitting on the ROTS commentary, "When the supposed Tantive IV appeared on screen in Revenge of the Sith, the crowd went crazy! I had no idea what they were cheering at, until (whoever was sitting next to him) said to Lucas, "Everyone is going crazy because that is the first image we all saw in the theaters in 1977, its iconic!"
And we wonder why there are plotholes written during the PT;)
If Lucas had in his notes back in the early 70's, "I will end Episode VI with Kenobi, Yoda, and an old Anakin, probably older looking then Kenobi. And then when I film the Prequels, I will change that person in Episode VI through computer technology(which isn't possible but probably will be in the future) and put in the actor who played Anakin in Episode II & III."
I will bow down and never bitch about the Special Editions ever again;)
I know this may be a bit off topic, but this thread has slowed down lately, so I thought I would give my latest review of ROTJ.
I always loved this film as a kid, much more then ESB, now SW was, is, and always we will be my favorite. In saying that I plopped in ROTJ tonight due to the Phils game not starting til 10PM on the East Coast, and no other baseball games on ESPN or MLB.
I have to say that this movie is not aging well through the years, as it almost to the point where I can only watch SW & ESB anymore. I almost pop in ROTJ out of sense of obligation because it wraps up the story, which in a sad way is why I tried watching the PT many years ago because I wanted to see the saga as 6 movies.
There is a HUGE quality drop from SW & ESB to ROTJ, and it becomes more and more prevailent through the years. The huge thing that really sets it apart from the first two SW films is the pacing, and I think the PT suffered the same fate, parts of the movie just lags, and you want to get to the good parts late in the movie. The whole Jabba part drags, then it gets good with the sailbarge, Yoda, and then lags at Endor, but that is about 60% of the movie until Luke finally gives himself to Vader!
I don't know there will always be a soft spot for Jedi with me because I remember seeing it as a kid and loving it, but I have to say SW & ESB are really the only ones I watch anymore, cause they are still great.
Sorry for getting off topic.
ChainsawAsh said:1) Does anyone actually care about the new show anyway?
I think kids enjoy the series, so I really don't have a problem with them. I personally tried watching them once on Cartoon Network, and thought it was unwatchable after 5 minutes.
In saying that, it is a cartoon, and Lucas has never really targeted it towards the older SW crowd, so thats cool with me. What gets me mad about the PT is that it is marketed to the older SW crowd, and then you have characters like Jar Jar in the movie, who is clearly targeted towards kids. The Clone Wars Movie/TV Show is clearly for kids, so I never really cared about it, nor do I watch it now.
How would I change ROTJ today?
-Have Leia, Luke, Lando, and the droids infiltrate Jabba's palace instead of just showing up one by one and get captured. The whole Jabba part drags because of this, make it more like Star Wars where they are on the run, evading guards, and when they finally get caught by Jabba's people after rescuing Han, you can then go to the Sail Barge scene, cause that works very well.
-Keep the whole Dagobah scene, where Yoda dies and ObiWan talks to Luke about the 'other'. Make the 'other' Lukes sister, who is unknown which leaves room for 7,8,9, and lends credence to fans debating this even if the movies are never filmed.
-Get rid of Endor and used Kashykk with the world of Wookies. How friggin cool would a land battle of Wookies vs Stormtroopers be?
-I don't mind DSII, because it is reasonable to believe that the Empire would build something again. Only this time have Han & Leia and the droids fly Millenium Falcon in there along with Lando and have them blow it up at the end.
-And I would also just have Yoda and Ben as a force ghost so Lucas could have never tampered with that scene putting in Hayden, GOD I HATE THAT CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The last image of Anakin/Darth Vader should be him burning in the bonfire with Luke looking on, that is a poetic ending.
I expected this to be crap once I heard McG was directing. From what I read on reviews this movie is all about action and explosions and light on character development. Typical summer movie which I could care less about, sadly there are more and more of this crap every year.
TheBoost said:Considering that AOTC is a love story and ROTS is mostly a character study of Anakin, the 'movie serial' thing doesn't seem to apply.
100% agree. The whole PT is a character study about how a man turns to the dark side, so that negates 'the serial' right there!
Star Wars '77 is a serial because you don't have this huge character study, you meet the characters, you get to know the characters, but it is just enough to keep you invested. Same with Raiders, you get to know Indy, but not too much where it becomes some character piece.
Raiders is a perfect film, IMO.
I say that in the context of what the movie is: an action movie that doesn't take itself too seriously. Everyone forgets that even though Spielberg/Lucas took the idea from the old serials they grew up with, nobody was doing this at that time.
Now there are so many knockoffs they many take Raiders for granted, the same way there are so many knockoffs to Jaws, the same way there are knockoffs to Diehard. All these movies were unique at the time, and that is why they stand the test of time so well.
I love Raiders because the movie is like Star Wars, it has a combo of an interesting story, a great good guy to root for, great action, good chemistry with the cast, and touches of humor that keep it from taking itself too seriously. My favorite part is where Indy goes after the Arc on Horseback and is asked what his plan is, and he turns and says, "I don't know, I'm making this up as I go!" The other Indy movies don't have that, they lack that freshness, they are fun, but just knockoffs to the original.
C3PX, I agree.
The great thing about the PT is it is a seperate entity from the OT, so it is easy to pretend it doesn't exist. I have always thought of the SW saga as 2 trilogies, even when the PT movies were being released. It is a simple backstory that you can choose to ignore or add on to the SW trilogy.
Now I think it would have been tougher if Lucas had made 7,8,9 and the further adventures of Luke, Leia, and Han. Just say those sucked, and now you would have essentially a continuation of the adventures of our beloved characters, and that would be tough to let go off.
I forget many movies from every movies series. Here is are the movies that exist in my world:
T1 & T2
Superman I & II
SW, Empire, Jedi
Back to the Future
Jurassic Park
Alien & Aliens
Rocky I, II, III, IV, Rocky Balboa
Raiders of the Lost Ark
Jaws
Its real easy:)
Gaffer Tape said:Amazing. Being a bit too young to have caught the movies in theatres, I've always wondered how people reacted to the shift in episode numbers, especially how kids reacted to it. I've never heard a story like that before, but it's a pretty well-informed rationalization.
I will be totally honest, nobody ever talked about the episode #'s when I was a kid, and I think that has to do with not having them on Video and just seeing them on HBO. As a kid, you would rarely catch a movie from the beginning on HBO, as you channel surf, see SW on, and start watching it til the end. Because of that, I never really noticed or cared about the Episode #'s from 77-83. I never had them on video until the late 80's, so there was no BS to deal with concerning the spines of the movies, or how they were worded on the boxset, or eventually which versions were being released;) Back then they were just Star Wars, Empire, and Jedi.
It was just assumed that Jedi was the last movie, even in 1982, and you had that context the whole time. It wasn't til after Jedi that the hype for more movies began, and that is when you started analyzing the Episode #'s, wondering what happened before and after.
I saw SW at 5, Empire at 8, and Jedi at 11, so I have vague memories of SW, although I do remember the crowd cheering when the death star blew up. I do remember walking out of Empire totally shitting myslef, as I was not ready for that type of movie at that age. Jedi was the first SW movie I was old enough to anticipate, and finally saw it at a local theater, as I remember Trading Places was the other movie playing that day. I remember loving it to death, and walking out totally juiced, and thinking every 3 years there will be a great SW film that will knock my socks off.
SilverWook said:Take heart in the fact that George allegedly hates this as much as some of us hate the Prequels and Special Editions.
So, in a way, it's continued preservation and unauthorized distribution brings balance to the Force. ;)
If Lucas logged onto and posted on TFN, would they call him a basher since he hates the Holiday Special?:):):)
New scene added to the BluRay Return of the Jedi special edition:
Luke: Leia, do you remember the Holiday Special, the one from 1978?
Leia: Just memories, it died while I was very young. Everyone seemed so sad when we watched it.
Luke: I have no memory of the Holiday Special.
(George Lucas DVD commentary): Now I don't have to hear crap from the fans about Leia remembering her mother, cause I know I f-d up the whole plot point up in Episode III. Now they are talking about the Holiday Special instead.
1. What were your expectations going in Episode I?
I was one of the few fans who wanted the Sequel Trilogy, as I was dying for Episode VII back in the mid 80's. I read in an interview with Lucas somewhere back during ROTJ, and he said he was going to take 2 years off and do the Sequel Trilogy in 88, 91, and 94, then take 2 years off and then do the Prequel Trilogy in 99, 02, 05, and it was like Christmas morning thinking about more SW movies for the next 20 years!
As for expectations of Episode I, I really lost my zest for new SW movies by the late 80's, and really wasn't juiced for this movie. Many of my friends were super-hyped, and it seemed like they were let down more after we walked out of the theater.
2. What did you think of the trailers released in 1998/99?
I remember seeing a trailer on Entertainment Tonight in the spring of '99, and I can't explain it, but it just felt weird, it didn't feel like SW, but in some ways, I sorta liked that cause maybe this would be something new that would knock our socks off!
3. Did you read any SW Insiders magazines, spoilers on the internet? Anything from them that stuck out to you?
I went totally unspoiled for the movie, no magazines, no internet, no spoilers, I had no idea what I was walking into opening night.
4. What did you think of the hype in the Spring of '99, as it seemed like every entertainment show was talking about the first SW film in 16 years?
I personally loved the hype that spring as Entertainment Tonight actually started off every show, "21 days til Episode I!" As a SW fan, and having no idea that the PT would not deliver to many fans, this was the zenith of this movie series. It was cool that SW dominated the pop culture world, and this was before Jar Jar Binks, so SW was still king of the world to EVERYONE.
5. Did you collect any of the toys, or the merchandise from Taco Bell I think? or was it Burger King?
No, although I do remember the merchandise being everywhere.
6. When did you finally see it, opening night? opening weekend? wait for the crowds to die down and saw it later in the summer?
I saw it the first Friday night at a Multiplex, and we got there super early to get tickets, and finally walked into the theater, and it ended up being half full! It started off great with QuiGon and Obiwan and then Jar Jar appeared on screen and my buddy said to me, "I gotta bad feeling about this...."
Famous last words!
OK, this is a thread about your thoughts pre-TPM, pre-PT, so no post-TPM/PT movie remarks.
1. What were your expectations going in Episode I?
2. What did you think of the trailers released in 1998/99?
3. Did you read any SW Insiders magazines, spoilers on the internet? Anything from them that stuck out to you?
4. What did you think of the hype in the Spring of '99, as it seemed like every entertainment show was talking about the first SW film in 16 years?
5. Did you collect any of the toys, or the merchandise from Taco Bell I think? or was it Burger King?
6. When did you finally see it, opening night? opening weekend? wait for the crowds to die down and saw it later in the summer?
The Holiday Special is unwatchable, as the Prequels atleast have some good moments. I actually remember watching the Holiday Special in 1978, and I remember cringing then as we got to witness Chewbaccas family and all of the wookies. I think we will see the OOT on BluRay before Lucas ever releases the Holiday Special to the public.
Zombie needs to respond in this thread, he knows alot about this process.
"When did the idea hit you to have Darth Vader & Luke Skywalkers dad be the same person?"
Has it been 10 years? Wow, I feel old now:)
I grew up with the OOT, and saw TPM when I was in my mid 20's, and suprisingly didn't have huge expectations like many of my friends did who anticipated this movie since 1983. I always wanted the Sequel Trilogy, and the further adventures of Luke, Leia and Han. I warned my friends in the spring of '99, "temper your expectations, these aren't the same characters, it just won't be the same. Would you want to see a Back to the Future Prequel without Marty McFly?"
How did I feel on May 19,1999? I actually walked out of the theater thinking it wasn't that bad. My friends, who were expecting the next coming were horrified and hugely disappointed, but I kinda took it in stride. I thought the movie was fun, and just felt like SW-light, but I loved the universe so much as a kid, I didn't bury like many did. I didn't like Jar Jar, or Jake Lloyd, but I liked seeing the Senate in action, Palpatine taking a hold on power, and seeing a young Obiwan was cool too.
How do I feel May 1, 2009? When you now look at it as part 1 of part 3 in the trilogy, what a missed opportunity TPM really is. Not until I saw ROTS, did you realize how much time Lucas wasted in Episode I and how it affected each movie after that. In saying that, as a standalone movie for a SW fan, it is mildly entertaining, a bit childish, and has a cool lightsaber battle at the end. Does it compare to the OT movies? Not even close.
C3PX said:The biggest difference here, is that SW, especially the prequels, are targeted at young, immature audiences. While The Godfather is targeted at adults. Most adults are in the state of mind where that loyalist fanboy attitude doesn't mean a whole lot (beyond motor companies and sports teams of course!). Most people mature enough to like The Godfather films would say, "Ah, part three sucked. Oh well. One and two are still good." And the ones who liked the third one would says, "Wow, the Godfather trilogy is really fantastic."
But with Star Wars you have the lame-o fanboy factor. This is the type of mentallity that brings us beloved classic arguments like, "Kirk could kick Picards ass any day of the week!" and "Naaa uuuhh!!!! Picard would outsmart Kirk before Kirk even had a chance!!!" It is all BS. Fans bickering for the sake of bickering! It is immaturity defined. "Sonic could kick Marios butt!!" "ANH is superduper meh! AOTC is AWETHOM!!! You get to see Padme's midriff in it!!! And Yoda does flips!!! And Anakin is totally badass, he kills women and children because they are like animals!!!" "ROTS is so much better than any of the OT!!! We get to see Yoda do more flips!!! Anakin is badass, he kills chiildren and a woman!!! Finally we get to see Palptine totally pwn Jedi with his lightsaber!!! General Grevious rules!!! He gives me nightmares, lol!!!
BLAH!
This is who LFL panders too unfortunately, the scales have tipped to the degree where the above is the majority, and those who just want to see a piece of cinema history as it was originally seen are left out in the cold.
Good points!